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Author Topic: How much prostitutes earn revealed in largest study of its kind in the UK  (Read 6844 times)

Offline Rochelle

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Not to put too fine a point on it but there are WGs who I expect to have an orderly queue forming for their services and there those who I expect to have a... more niche appeal. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but there is a template to what is “conventionally attractive” and you don’t exactly fit that mould.
Actually, after looking at some of your reviews, you have a nerve calling me unattractive. You've seen girls bigger than me...unless you were getting at the fact that I'm black.

Offline NigelF

In other words, you think I'm ugly. No need to try to be diplomatic, I am as straightforward as they come.
I don't think I'm ugly. Obviously I won't be everyone's type, obviously some guys don't go for black women. There are still lots of guys who do. I only seek one or two outcalls per week. That should be easy in London but for some reason it's not.

I do go for black women (although not that often but indeed I will be reviewing an extremely good looking one very soon) but for me it was mainly your face that put me off (when you were recently touring Manchester). Don't get me wrong though, I very much appreciate you having previously put up face pics and I'm sure there will be plenty of others who do find you attractive but generally I agree with what OutforJustice said.

It was that and the fact that you don't like/can't be arsed with cowgirl! Nonetheless, since I don't think you have any face pics up anymore it'll probably be the things that have been previously mentioned that are main factors now. Although I do wonder why you don't seem to have many/enough repeat clients?

I recommend posting a sop story about your lack of clients on UKE and I'm sure you'll be inundated with bookings from the hordes of fluffies on there!

Anyway, this isn't the place for such discussion and I apologise to the OP for derailing.

Offline Rochelle

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I do go for black women (although not that often but indeed I will be reviewing an extremely good looking one very soon) but for me it was mainly your face that put me off (when you were recently touring Manchester). Don't get me wrong though, I very much appreciate you having previously put up face pics and I'm sure there will be plenty of others who do find you attractive but generally I agree with what OutforJustice said.

It was that and the fact that you don't like/can't be arsed with cowgirl! Nonetheless, since I don't think you have any face pics up anymore it'll probably be the things that have been previously mentioned that are main factors now. Although I do wonder why you don't seem to have many/enough repeat clients?

I recommend posting a sop story about your lack of clients on UKE and I'm sure you'll be inundated with bookings from the hordes of fluffies on there!

Anyway, this isn't the place for such discussion and I apologise to the OP for derailing.
I hadn't posted for a few days. I didn't actually bring it back up.
By the way, it's nothing to do with not being arsed. That's not my reason.

Offline NigelF

I hadn't posted for a few days. I didn't actually bring it back up.

I'm not saying you did. I'm saying I shouldn't really have engaged with you so much. It's not the end of the world though, I'm sure no one really cares much (I don't).

Ming

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Just throw my two penneth worth into the pot.

A popular WG I have seen recently told me how many clients and length of booking she had taken that day, I calculated that she had earned £810 in one day, now if you allow for days off, slow days, expenses etc, let's say conservatively she averages £500 a day, she works 6 days a week, so £3k per week.

That's £156, 000 per year, fully accept she may take more time off etc, but even so, conservatively £100,000.00 per year.

I had to study and work hard for a long time to get anywhere near that figure, but then I don't have to suck cock and take it up the jacksey  :lol:

Quite an eye-opener!

Ming  :hi:

Online finn5555

Just throw my two penneth worth into the pot.

A popular WG I have seen recently told me how many clients and length of booking she had taken that day, I calculated that she had earned £810 in one day, now if you allow for days off, slow days, expenses etc, let's say conservatively she averages £500 a day, she works 6 days a week, so £3k per week.

That's £156, 000 per year, fully accept she may take more time off etc, but even so, conservatively £100,000.00 per year.

I had to study and work hard for a long time to get anywhere near that figure, but then I don't have to suck cock and take it up the jacksey  :lol:

Quite an eye-opener!

Ming  :hi:

Highly unlikely no pro$$ie would get that many clients a day and if they did they would burn out within a few months

Ming

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Highly unlikely no pro$$ie would get that many clients a day and if they did they would burn out within a few months

She's new, in her early 20s, charges at the high end and provides some specialist services, yes she may well burn out, but the calculation is correct.

Ming  :hi:

Online finn5555

She's new, in her early 20s, charges at the high end and provides some specialist services, yes she may well burn out, but the calculation is correct.

Ming  :hi:

Have to disagree mate, then again you are just guessing  :hi:

Ming

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Have to disagree mate, then again you are just guessing  :hi:

No guessing finn, her rates are clearly displayed and I can do mathematics.

How long she will be able to sustain that though is anyone's guess.

Ming  :hi:

Online finn5555

No guessing finn, her rates are clearly displayed and I can do mathematics.

How long she will be able to sustain that though is anyone's guess.

Ming  :hi:

Who is it then  :unknown:

Offline OutForJustice80

Actually, after looking at some of your reviews, you have a nerve calling me unattractive. You've seen girls bigger than me...unless you were getting at the fact that I'm black.
I said conventionally attractive, I said nothing about my personal opinion of you. I do like larger women as it happens but I know that my view isn’t in sync with the mainstream.

Also why would me having seen large girls mean I had “nerve”? Are they, by default, less attractive because they’re bigger than you?

Offline OutForJustice80

No guessing finn, her rates are clearly displayed and I can do mathematics.

How long she will be able to sustain that though is anyone's guess.

Ming  :hi:
But you’re extrapolating from a single day where she’s seen lots of clients. You’ve no idea how many clients she sees per week, how many weeks she works a year. You don’t even know if what she told you is accurate.

Offline NigelF

But you’re extrapolating from a single day where she’s seen lots of clients. You’ve no idea how many clients she sees per week, how many weeks she works a year. You don’t even know if what she told you is accurate.

What you've said is true but he did try to account for all of those things (albeit very roughly) in his post.

Offline cash2spare

Based on my personal observations, the WGs on £150 per hour are likely to be a lot less busier than the ones on £120.
Secondly, I suspect the majority of punts are for half hours only. Thirdly, there is a lot of 'down time' involved between punts, I suspect, so four a day may be a bit on the high side.. As with any business activity, there will be good periods and also quieter times.
Maybe there is a 'super WG' somewhere on £96k, but I doubt it represents the majority.

I reckon the £96K is on the low side as the op stated just 4 punts a day and only a 4 day week is £2400 per week tax free cash in hand.
£2,400 x 40 weeks = £96K.
The quiet times will be in their meagre 12 weeks holidays abroad :-)
Not bad work if you can get it.
Beat's stacking shelves at Tesco's for £7.50 per hour and giving a boyfriend "the goodies" for free lol

Offline Titti Tatti

In other words ... we are just guessing.

 I'm struck by the no of girls who appear, get great reviews, become hard to book and then FO. Is it burn out or someone plugging a financial hole?
What they earn in a day, week or even month is not indicative of an annual income.

Anyone seen a thread on SAAFE on this? It could be interesting.

Offline randyrobert

Titti Tatti indeed there have been threads on SAAFE on this very topic

 A while back (2011) there was a thread “ How many clients do you average out at per week?”( External Link/Members Only)  and  (2014) “ How many a day do you normally see… “ External Link/Members Only  more recently (2016) a thread “Nosy-number of clients”  External Link/Members Only   and there is an ongoing thread (since 2008) “Slow at the minute or just me?” External Link/Members Only where these questions are discussed (References may be found by entering External Link/Members Only where 1234 is the number cited in the text).

Of course one does not know how representative the experiences are but both threads give a wide range of experiences. The “Slow at the minute….” thread is a thread where WGs complain about the amount of work they are getting (8871) -it is possible that very successful prostitutes do not post as it would seem tactless (4430,4431,5744,7670)-but the contributions of well-known successful prostitutes  to that thread probably means it is fairly typical of the breadth of experiences.

So how many clients does a WG see? This all depends on how the WG wishes to or can operate (1463,5235,7013) and where she is in the country . For instance, some escorts combine escorting with other civvie jobs, both full or part-time or freelance, some supplement their income by webcamming (6700,6808,6929). All this may mean they are less dependent on escorting income than those for whom it is their sole occupation-but also means they have less time to dedicate to escorting(6661). Others value the free time that escorting can bring and are not after maximising their income (1464). Some “high class” i.e. expensive  escorts may wish to see few clients a week but spend a lot on clothes and grooming. No two escorts are the same-they all operate in different ways.

Even those without other jobs may wish to escort a few days per week (combining escorting with childcare, studying  or other interests ), some set fixed days of work others do not, some only take advanced bookings so they know in advance what days to work others just take short notice bookings and some can only escort at certain times (when kids are at school or do outcalls in the evenings), others find it difficult not to be available and are afraid to turn work away in case it dries up-a familiar problem of the self-employed.

While some set financial targets and will work until they meet them (4853,4871,6852,6989,7015,7064) many are content if their outgoings are covered and bills paid (rent food etc.) (5000) others wish to accumulate money or save for specific purposes (5002) (cosmetic surgery, education, buying property to send to families etc.). All these factors will determine how an escort prefers to operate and the number of clients they would like to see and whether they only take advanced booking (2067) or only on the day bookings(1895,2062,6010) or do both (2064) and if they offer 15 min bookings or only longer. There is no such thing as a typical escort.

Many do not have dedicated escorting premises (and the associated expense) and only do outcalls to hotels or private houses or operate in calls from hotels, others work at home(5126)or from a rented work premises . Many escorts tour different areas in the country and find this can boost their income (4621), making in a couple of days what would take a week at home because they represent “fresh blood” in the area and they also will work longer hours than when at home ( a downside is a “new” girl attracts local timewasters (3645)). However if they tour they run the risk of not getting enough bookings to cover their accommodation costs(1232,3676,3911,4338,4488,4704,4798,4995,5514,6701,7872). Also where they tour can have an impact, sometimes big cities with lots of potential clients are not always good (4805) because of competition.  This uncertainty of a steady income plus the stress of waiting around for clients who might or might not appear can be demotivating (4537,4567,4629,5096,7297), here “regulars” can be a god send (7525), the uncertainty  makes some question whether escorting is for them (6783,6804).

Some entered escorting in the hope of making a lot of money (4995,5002) and feel the certainty of an income from a civvie job is attractive-others point out that they can earn enough escorting  to live comfortably with a few hours work a week (4996,5000)

On the forum “Slow at the minute or just me?” several constant themes emerge. One is that “it is not as good as it used to be” (1290,1447,1456,1460,1646,2508,2121,2503,5062,6934,7339,8662,8797) so a long term general decline in the amount of clients per worker variously attributed to the influx of new workers into the business and also the recession(s)(1290, 1365). Some look back on the old days-recalling “carding” in London that they felt boosted demand, others point out that advertising in Newspapers in the pre-internet day was restrictive and expensive. Also the services expected today are much more than several years ago when massage, covered oral and sex were all that was on offer (2510)

For some a quiet time means the phone not ringing-for others a quiet time means they got half the bookings they desired (4853). One thing that does emerge however that escorting (like many self-employed occupations) can be precarious-there is a large fluctuation in the number of clients, days of feast can be followed by days of famine (1230,4162,438,7877,8985), the escort just hopes that the peaks and troughs even out so she can get the desired income (423,2584,2788,6659,6795), and those that tour hope income at least covers the expenses (5514, 6811). Wise escorts put away money to provide a cushion for when things are bad or to invest for the future (2342, 4187,5247, 6159, 6790), some however fail to save (2340,4698,5448)

Then there seasonal factors – generally, post summer and especially the run up to Christmas (4785) until January are good periods (1202 but see 8868)but that February is a low month (due to Christmas cc bills coming in) followed quickly by February half-term( but see 1610, 5462,5470,5614) or end of the financial year (5753,5887)or Ramadan (6115). Other school holidays are also low points (Easter (5744,5747), half terms, bank holidays, inset days (5727) and summer holidays (but see 1926 and 8864)).. Then there are shorter term fluctuations-business may slower on Mondays (6863,6870 but see 7170) some say better (or worse) on Wednesdays (7000,8967)some find the end of the week better (9792) but higher after monthly paydays (1681) lower with big sporting event (football, Olympics etc). Then the weather may be a factor-better in warm weather (1797,2286)-but worse if it is really hot (1768 1842, 5805 but see 1285) or it rains(1947,2361). But overall there seems to be little rhyme or reason as to why one day or month  is busy and the next not (3158,3160,5655,5907,6343,6692,6966,8478,8550,8558,8559,9133 ). This uncertainty can tempt escorts to overwork on the good days either to make up for poor days or suspecting  they may not get much business on the next (2987,3228,3639,3640,3861,6658,6659,7016,7020,7023) but see (7015)

 Indeed while on some days some escorts are busy, on the same days others (even in the same city 5627,5628,5629) may get no work.  This uncertainty is stressful, sometimes there are no calls on the escorts phone, if there are calls many these may be “Timewasters”, men with no intention of booking but use the call to masturbate to, or ask pointless questions already covered in the escorts profile, or try to haggle in prices often the escorts instincts help weed these out-then others make bookings but fail to show up (no shows) which is frustrating as the escort may have turned away other clients thinking they were booked up.

A few escorts double book in attempts to mitigate the problem of “no shows” (6710)
Others who make advanced bookings then bombard the escort with text messages (text tennis) or phone calls (5104,5168,5941) to keep some sort of erotic fantasy going(6797)-almost all these were “Timewasters” who never followed through on their bookings. All this make it hard for an escort to stay motivated as she is often alone in a hotel room staring at the wall and wondering if she will be able to cover her costs (4995,5701,6811,6889,6914), in fact some find touring so unpredictable they are tempted to give up escorting (5126,6812) but then in good week they can earn more than in 2-3 months of a civvie job (4997,7017,7133) .

A constant refrain is that relying on “Adult Work” (AW the largest UK advertising site for escorts) is not enough (4427,5370,7675); an escort must do more to promote herself creating their own website (5340)and getting on other directories so they come up high in Google search (1942).

Many would be punters do not know about dedicated sites such as AW and will use Google to search for escorts and find sites such as Vivastreet or Backpage. Many WGs find that they get more bookings off AW when they are new-in the first couple of years-then business drops off so they have to advertise on other sites and do more to promote themselves adding pictures to their AW galleries and use the “Available today” or “Local escort” feature (6238 but see 6506) or blogging on AW or their own websites or going on twitter(1429) Some advertise additionally on Vivastreet (3778,3943,5456) and other forums-but often find while they do get booking there are a higher proportion of timewasters or no shows from those sites (4196, 6564).

From the thread “Slow at the minute or just me?” from those 140 or so escorts who gave an indication of the number of clients seen the median is about 3 per day for those that gave daily totals or between 5 and 6 for those giving weekly totals . Of course this includes prostitutes who are deliberately low volume and the fact that generally escorts do not work every day. Also some of the totals are those seen on a “good” day-these may be interspersed with days of no work(7877).

It is instructive to compare these totals with the spread of earnings of escorts given in “ Connelly L (2014) Working conditions and job satisfaction of sex work pilot External Link/Members Only  on p 15 which gives the median monthly income of independent escorts as £1500-1999 which equates to around 15 clients or approx. 5 a week-not too far from the estimates from “Slow at the minute or just me?”.
 
These figures are way different from estimates given in Brooks-Gordon B et al Calculating the Number of Sex Workers and Contribution to Non-Observed Economy in the UK (External Link/Members Only) . Where independent sex workers are assumed to work 120-150 hours per month-which equates to about 31 clients a week or six a day(assuming 5 days a week worked) -more than twice the daily number and six times the weekly total from “Slow at the minute..?” While such high levels of clients might be attainable on tour on a good day ( and remember not every day is a good day-many days may have few or no clients) -the numbers are far from typical. Given the concordance between the estimates of monthly earnings and “Slow at the minute..?” I am inclined to believe the latter figures are closer to the actuality.



Offline OakTree

Thanks Randy Robert very enlightening. I think sometimes we do simplify it, the girl charges X amount, works four days a week, must see four clients a day therefore earns Y.  It think it’s very telling that so many girls tour. You’d only do that if you had to.

Offline Ali Katt

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I reckon the £96K is on the low side as the op stated just 4 punts a day and only a 4 day week is £2400 per week tax free cash in hand.
£2,400 x 40 weeks = £96K.
The quiet times will be in their meagre 12 weeks holidays abroad :-)
Not bad work if you can get it.
Beat's stacking shelves at Tesco's for £7.50 per hour and giving a boyfriend "the goodies" for free lol
Makes you wonder why some use value wet wipes, can't afford a taxi\phone credit and sleeping outside Primark the night before a sale is announced.

Offline MrMatrix

Well RandyRobert, that is a lot of research there- and to read the whole thead from SAAFI, Interesting, informative read .How long did it take you to reasearch and put this together. :hi:

Offline randyrobert

Mr Matrix-it took an age to put together-and is till on going but after a while the same themes re-emerge on the SAAFE forums so keeping it up-to date is not too hard.

My motivation was really the calculations of the type mentioned by Oaktree “sometimes we do simplify it, the girl charges X amount, works four days a week, must see four clients a day therefore earns Y. “ When you do the maths on that and take the commonly made assumption that there are 80,000 prozzies in the UK and the figures from NATSAL (National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyle External Link/Members Only ) on the proportion of UK men who have visited prostitutes (around 10% have ever visited a prostitute and 3% do it regularly) then that gives the average punter going several times a week (External Link/Members Only and see also External Link/Members Only )-clearly something is wrong with the assumptions.


A similar point was made by Bo Jensen in this article on the situation in Denmark (External Link/Members Only ) who showed that probably the estimated number of prostitutes was off as were the number of clients they saw.

So I tried to get a better handle on these figures-I reckon that the 80,000 figure is probably about 3 times too high but the main error is on the average number of clients seen (so I tracked SAAFE to see what prozzies themselves were saying) and I am glad that the BTG survey (mentioned by the OP see also External Link/Members Only ) come to similar conclusions.

The big surprise to me was the huge spectrum in ways of working, part-time, full-time other jobs incalls outcalls touring etc. There is no such thing as an average prostitute.

Offline MrMatrix

Blimey RR, this is serious research you are doing here. I too would have gone done the simple route of 4 punts a day 4 days a week , say 40 weeks a year at say £150 =£96K. Well impressed at what you have done- a demanding read :hi:

Offline mcardle464

I seem to have clicked a wrong link somewhere, and turned up on an academic journal forum, not UKP  :lol:

Well done randyrobert for doing such in-depth work.  I take it you are going to publish?  NOT!

It does occur to me that following the conclusion that 3% punt regularly, we should call ourselves the Three Percenters, as a description of UKP members, most of whom, at least the active reviewing ones, fall into that category.

Offline randyrobert

I like "Three Percenters, as a description of UKP members".  :D  Actually the NATSAL3 results are available here External Link/Members Only - a couple of interesting findings-the prevalence of paying for sex has not increased over the past decade -which is a surprise-but those who pay for sex tend to have more non-paid liaisons too-which is not a surprise.

Offline cash2spare

Makes you wonder why some use value wet wipes, can't afford a taxi\phone credit and sleeping outside Primark the night before a sale is announced.

ha ha nice one  ;)

Grumbleguts

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Michelle Thorne posted a photo on Twitter showing her sitting in her new Lamborghini. At £600 per hour she must have taken a good few knobbings to pay for it. Wasnt she done for DD recently? :drinks: :hi:

Offline Drayki

Michelle Thorne posted a photo on Twitter showing her sitting in her new Lamborghini. At £600 per hour she must have taken a good few knobbings to pay for it. Wasnt she done for DD recently? :drinks: :hi:

Think that was Danni Harwood your thinking about that was done for dd :hi:

Grumbleguts

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Think that was Danni Harwood your thinking about that was done for dd :hi:

Michelle Thorne was arrested 28th Dec 2016 for DD. She spent the night in the cells and let out at 3pm next day. She crashed her peugeot people carrier into a pub fence after a row with her family.  :hi:

Offline Drayki

Didn't know about her :lol:but I know Danni harwood got done as well just recently for the same thing, only she was driving a fucking Maserati  :dash:

Offline Ali Katt

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Michelle Thorne posted a photo on Twitter showing her sitting in her new Lamborghini. At £600 per hour she must have taken a good few knobbings to pay for it. Wasnt she done for DD recently? :drinks: :hi:
Mrs Thorne is one of the name British porn stars, not quite a household name, but deffo known to anyone who watches a lot of porn, so this wouldn't surprise me. Dogger and creampie slut (her words) Bambi Blacks has posed with supercars before they just hire them for that photo shoot.