Killed Herself on Webcam

[Scotpunter]

External Link/Members Only

Found this interesting reading. First of all the guy was a complete cunt for not seeking help for the girl when it became apparent she was in trouble.

However, I am not sure what it is the sister wants or hopes to achieve. The girl who died was a supposed educated person, she was working in a job providing support for youngsters with mental health issues.

At what point does it become the responsibiity of the law to ensure a self employed person takes common sense approaches to what he or she does.

What actions could the sister have taken, She admits to finding it immensely funny with this nut job was sending £50 to have smoke blown at his webcam. Did she think at that time he was utterly mad to pay that sum for something like that?

Thoughts?

[tynetunnel]

Its obviously a terrible tragedy, and two lives have sadly been lost. Maybe he should have done something if he realised something was wrong. Assuming he knew something was.

I note how they were ‘laughing’ at the things he requested, and she obviously enjoyed the ‘many thousands of pounds’ he paid her. Maybe the bigger picture is ‘greed’  and ‘easy money’ - she enjoyed ‘designer’ clothes that she bought with the easy money he paid her. There seems to be very much a culture in the young of entitlement - maybe this is the ultimate price. Nobody forced her, she was a webcam girl by her own choice and free will. She desired and obtained items which through normal employment may have been out of her grasp.

At the end of the day she was an adult, fully consenting of everything she did, and ultimately has to take responsibility for her own health and well-being.

[niftyfiftydave]

Its obviously a terrible tragedy, and two lives have sadly been lost. Maybe he should have done something if he realised something was wrong. Assuming he knew something was.

I note how they were ‘laughing’ at the things he requested, and she obviously enjoyed the ‘many thousands of pounds’ he paid her. Maybe the bigger picture is ‘greed’  and ‘easy money’ - she enjoyed ‘designer’ clothes that she bought with the easy money he paid her. There seems to be very much a culture in the young of entitlement - maybe this is the ultimate price. Nobody forced her, she was a webcam girl by her own choice and free will. She desired and obtained items which through normal employment may have been out of her grasp.

At the end of the day she was an adult, fully consenting of everything she did, and ultimately has to take responsibility for her own health and well-being.

+1, 

[peter purves]

A terrible story all round 

I am not sure what law can be brought in to prevent his happening again apart from raising general awareness and responsibility by all parties involved
when webcamming. 

[Hobbit]

Very sad story but she was an adult and she knew what she was doing. I don't care how many designer shoes someone buys me but I wouldn't do anything that involves hanging. Far too dangerous and prone to accidental error.

[Cuntminion]

Fubar

What a fucking mess the whole situation

[mradventures]

why does everyone assume the guy knew where she lived ? if he didnt know her actual (address, phone) details, then what can he really do?

[winkywanky]

This is a double tragedy of course, there were two lives lost. Hard to get a clear picture without knowing a lot more details, but the girl was seemingly quite happy to take what was a lot of money from 'performing' for the guy, and probably others too, over quite some period of time. The guy egging her on must've been pretty damn twisted, and he did have illegal images on his computer - "possessing extreme pornography of acts that showed a "pre-occupation with strangulation, stabbing, torture, asphyxiation and death" ".But it doesn't look like the girl was what might be called 'vulnerable', she was intelligent with a degree and apparently a thrillseeker.

From what I can see, however distasteful this scenario might have been, this was misadventure. Unless the guy actually said something like 'I want to see you kill yourself', why would he be considered for a charge of manslaughter? Unless he was a complete sociopath he would've been devastated by the girl's death, and then to be banged up awaiting trial for that he's presumably killed himself. As for him not contacting anyone if he could see that things were going wrong, well yes, sitting behind our keyboards we can all see that he should have tried to do something. But was he getting his best orgasm ever as he realised she was dying, or did he panic and think 'oh my God, what the fuck can I do?' He probably didn't know where she lived or any other 'real' details about her, and if he was simply accessing all this via some clandestine website then even if he had called the police it's very unlikely anything could have been done to save her in time.

But this is all painted as if Dangar was completely at fault for everything, his death receives no consideration at all and she is made out to be 100% the victim. What he did was sick and fucked up, but there's not even a mention of whether he topped himself in jail, or was killed by another inmate. I assume the former. The girl and her sister were laughing at Dangar's requests, and she was satisfying her liking for designer clothes with the money, she was as much a contributor to the awful outcome as he was.

Having said all this I think it's quite right that legislation should be introduced to try to prevent this happening in the future. Awful.

[MissWolf]

This is a double tragedy of course, there were two lives lost. Hard to get a clear picture without knowing a lot more details, but the girl was seemingly quite happy to take what was a lot of money from 'performing' for the guy, and probably others too, over quite some period of time. The guy egging her on must've been pretty damn twisted, and he did have illegal images on his computer - "possessing extreme pornography of acts that showed a "pre-occupation with strangulation, stabbing, torture, asphyxiation and death" ".But it doesn't look like the girl was what might be called 'vulnerable', she was intelligent with a degree and apparently a thrillseeker.

From what I can see, however distasteful this scenario might have been, this was misadventure. Unless the guy actually said something like 'I want to see you kill yourself', why would he be considered for a charge of manslaughter? Unless he was a complete sociopath he would've been devastated by the girl's death, and then to be banged up awaiting trial for that he's presumably killed himself. As for him not contacting anyone if he could see that things were going wrong, well yes, sitting behind our keyboards we can all see that he should have tried to do something. But was he getting his best orgasm ever as he realised she was dying, or did he panic and think 'oh my God, what the fuck can I do?' He probably didn't know where she lived or any other 'real' details about her, and if he was simply accessing all this via some clandestine website then even if he had called the police it's very unlikely anything could have been done to save her in time.

But this is all painted as if Dangar was completely at fault for everything, his death receives no consideration at all and she is made out to be 100% the victim. What he did was sick and fucked up, but there's not even a mention of whether he topped himself in jail, or was killed by another inmate. I assume the former. The girl and her sister were laughing at Dangar's requests, and she was satisfying her liking for designer clothes with the money, she was as much a contributor to the awful outcome as he was.
 
Having said all this I think it's quite right that legislation should be introduced to try to prevent this happening in the future. Awful.

+1 fucked up and tragic all round 

[Scotpunter]

This is a double tragedy of course, there were two lives lost. Hard to get a clear picture without knowing a lot more details, but the girl was seemingly quite happy to take what was a lot of money from 'performing' for the guy, and probably others too, over quite some period of time. The guy egging her on must've been pretty damn twisted, and he did have illegal images on his computer - "possessing extreme pornography of acts that showed a "pre-occupation with strangulation, stabbing, torture, asphyxiation and death" ".But it doesn't look like the girl was what might be called 'vulnerable', she was intelligent with a degree and apparently a thrillseeker.

From what I can see, however distasteful this scenario might have been, this was misadventure. Unless the guy actually said something like 'I want to see you kill yourself', why would he be considered for a charge of manslaughter? Unless he was a complete sociopath he would've been devastated by the girl's death, and then to be banged up awaiting trial for that he's presumably killed himself. As for him not contacting anyone if he could see that things were going wrong, well yes, sitting behind our keyboards we can all see that he should have tried to do something. But was he getting his best orgasm ever as he realised she was dying, or did he panic and think 'oh my God, what the fuck can I do?' He probably didn't know where she lived or any other 'real' details about her, and if he was simply accessing all this via some clandestine website then even if he had called the police it's very unlikely anything could have been done to save her in time.

But this is all painted as if Dangar was completely at fault for everything, his death receives no consideration at all and she is made out to be 100% the victim. What he did was sick and fucked up, but there's not even a mention of whether he topped himself in jail, or was killed by another inmate. I assume the former. The girl and her sister were laughing at Dangar's requests, and she was satisfying her liking for designer clothes with the money, she was as much a contributor to the awful outcome as he was.

Having said all this I think it's quite right that legislation should be introduced to try to prevent this happening in the future. Awful.

I am in total agreement with the rest of your statements, as well as the other posts. But I'm still unclear as to what legislation could do. eg If legislation said that a person shouldn't go on webcam and appear to hang themselves, who then is the guilty party? The viewer or the performer?

[smiths]

The dead woman was an adult of 21 and responsible for what she did, he wasn't even with her in person so she could of refused or cut him off at any time. Just because a person asks you to put your head in an oven it doesn't mean you should do it.

As to his responsibility once he saw I assume that she was killing herself or dead did he know her location to be able to send an Ambulance to her specific location. If he did he should of done so immediately, if he didn't and rang 999 they would have to go to her cam site I assume and either try to locate her or report it to the site admin. All that would presumably have taken time, I cant see it was Manslaughter as she killed herself ultimately in my view.

A sad story but adults are responsible for what they do, she agreed to his requests, that was down to her. He wasn't a nice bloke by the sound of it and his conviction, he is dead so karma may have struck.

[Jayne_cobb]

I read this story as well and can’t see what they are trying to achieve either. Ah actually I get it now, on adultwork webcams you can’t show animals (one girl I was chatting to wanted to show me her dog - nothing kinky, literally “this is my dog”, but said she couldn’t as animals weren’t allowed. Couples (mf) aren’t allowed on myfreecams. So I expect they’re after a rule on the website owners that means they won’t allow performers to do auto erotic asphyxiation (or other potentially dangerous stuff). Seems a bit of a waste of time to me, it’s gotta be a fairly niche fetish so how many people are you going to stop?
I expect if a girl is desperate for money she might be persuaded to do any old weird shit on cam, but for most it’s consenting. most cam girls will pull the plug on anyone who they don’t want to cam with. It’s a terrible shame this happened but I don’t think anything needs to be done about it.

[peter purves]

I read this story as well and can’t see what they are trying to achieve either. Ah actually I get it now, on adultwork webcams you can’t show animals (one girl I was chatting to wanted to show me her dog - nothing kinky, literally “this is my dog”, but said she couldn’t as animals weren’t allowed.

Is this so??

I have seen pussys on AW cam and here I am referring to cats btw 

[winkywanky]

I am in total agreement with the rest of your statements, as well as the other posts. But I'm still unclear as to what legislation could do. eg If legislation said that a person shouldn't go on webcam and appear to hang themselves, who then is the guilty party? The viewer or the performer?

Presumably both parties signing an electronic statement to state no physical harm will come from any online activities between them, to make them think twice before activities begin because they may be legally liable?

And perhaps the provider of the website being forced to provide an 'emergency button' should anything serious happen or be requested during a webcam booking which would alert Mods?

[mradventures]

Is this so??

I have seen pussys on AW cam and here I am referring to cats btw 

yeah probably so they dont get involved in the action 

[Hardpunt2]

Anyone know how she actually died? It says she asphyxiated, but it also says she was doing a degrading sex act. Is putting a rope around your neck a degrading sex act?

Gas mask with a pipe up her arse?

[Jayne_cobb]

Is this so??

I have seen pussys on AW cam and here I am referring to cats btw 

I expect it was actually a rule of the cam company she was working for, not adultwork itself.

[Xtro]

Sorry to revive an old thread, I just recently discovered it.

....... there's not even a mention of whether he topped himself in jail, or was killed by another inmate. I assume the former.

Correct, he topped himself - External Link/Members Only

By all accounts Jerome Dangar was  "reckless", which attributed to Hope Barden's death.
They were both adult and both knew what they were doing. He should however have reported the incident if he believed she had actually died. That may of course have been part of the role play, to act dead and then he ended the chat session.

Playing Devils advocate here;
What is the difference when people pay to go to the circus, stunt events, etc, where accidents or deaths may occur? Isn't that part of the thrill? Are the paying public just as "reckless" to some degree if anything macabre does occur?
Who watched David Blaine in the perspex box all those years ago? Yes a magicians trick, but who knew the real risks involved? After all, Harry Houdini died performing a similar "trick".

According to the government's Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS), "Violent, obscene acts that are non-consensual or involve other criminal activity would be investigated by the law enforcement agencies".
In this instance, Dangar was jailed for 15 months for possessing "the worst images it is possible to imagine".
Do other circumstances exist where possesing/watching such material is NOT a crime? News outlets appear to be exempt here when they entice us to buy newspapers with headlines (and accompanying photos) that read "Moments From Murder", or the like.
Laws don't seem to apply to them so they just self regulate. External Link/Members Only
Good old Rupert Murdoch gets a mention in the above article. i'm so glad he doesn't have any political influence. 

Finally, Am I missing something here;
"Hope was an adrenaline junkie". Interesting reading - External Link/Members Only
"She completed her foundation degree in adolescent mental health.....". Hope was obviously intelligent and had an understanding of mental health.
Hope's sister Lily said, "It's not a joke, but the things he (Dangar) was saying we were laughing at" and "I know he was asking her to blow fag smoke down the camera and paid her £50 for that, which is bizarre."
As well as, "Then he was asking for very random and extreme things. He was giving her thousands of pounds and she liked designer clothes."
Shouldn't alarm bells be ringing for these 2 women? After all, Hope had an understanding of mental health.
She concludes, ""She didn't mean to hang herself and she had no mental health issues......" See the interesting reading link above if you haven't already.

[winkywanky]

No mention anywhere, of the 'tragic death' of Dangar? Only Barden's death is a tragedy then  . She, a gorgeous-looking young girl with a degree and her life ahead of her, or he, a sleazy middle-aged saddo with a penchant for viewing vile images. Who is 'most guilty' here? She was happy to milk the guy of £1000s to sate her desire for designer handbags and other shite.

Whilst possessing extreme 'snuff' images on your computer is possibly comparable with child porn images, sick/undesirable/abhorrent/criminal/liable to perpetuate the production of such images by others (and therefore contributory), I still think it wrong that Dangar was being considered for a charge of manslaughter. Why? As others have alluded to here, if someone gives you £200 to go and play hopscotch on the M1 while wearing a blindfold, do you do it? It wasn't the case here that Dangar was the intellectual superior, almost forcing Barden to do things she didn't want to do. She was quite happy to, and to take the filthy lucre with both outstretched hands. She was a clever young girl, quite possibly Dangar's intellectual superior, and indeed she had a degree in adolescent mental health.

You have to wonder what would have happened had the girl not died, but ended up in hospital, with the whole thing then being exposed and with a subsequent police investigation. As far as I'm concerned they'd both have been as guilty as each other in terms of producing this appalling 'product', ie sending illegal images/content over the internet (or are they only illegal if someone dies?) Would the police have prosecuted both of them in that case?

Of course in this case a woman has tragically died, leaving the remaining half of the 'partnership' to carry the can. All that pressure on his head, and he subsequently killed himself. No mention of his grieving family, perhaps he was that most reviled of individuals, a loner? 

[Hobbit]

No mention anywhere, of the 'tragic death' of Dangar? Only Barden's death is a tragedy then  . She, a gorgeous-looking young girl with a degree and her life ahead of her, or he, a sleazy middle-aged saddo with a penchant for viewing vile images. Who is 'most guilty' here? She was happy to milk the guy of £1000s to sate her desire for designer handbags and other shite.

Whilst possessing extreme 'snuff' images on your computer is possibly comparable with child porn images, sick/undesirable/abhorrent/criminal/liable to perpetuate the production of such images by others (and therefore contributory), I still think it wrong that Dangar was being considered for a charge of manslaughter. Why? As others have alluded to here, if someone gives you £200 to go and play hopscotch on the M1 while wearing a blindfold, do you do it? It wasn't the case here that Dangar was the intellectual superior, almost forcing Barden to do things she didn't want to do. She was quite happy to, and to take the filthy lucre with both outstretched hands. She was a clever young girl, quite possibly Dangar's intellectual superior, and indeed she had a degree in adolescent mental health.

You have to wonder what would have happened had the girl not died, but ended up in hospital, with the whole thing then being exposed and with a subsequent police investigation. As far as I'm concerned they'd both have been as guilty as each other in terms of producing this appalling 'product', ie sending illegal images/content over the internet (or are they only illegal if someone dies?) Would the police have prosecuted both of them in that case?

Of course in this case a woman has tragically died, leaving the remaining half of the 'partnership' to carry the can. All that pressure on his head, and he subsequently killed himself. No mention of his grieving family, perhaps he was that most reviled of individuals, a loner? 

+1 There are always two sides to a story and tragic as it is, she made her choice of acting out dangerous activities on webcam, no one forced her to do it. So they're both to blame.

[scutty brown]

Anyone know which webcam site she was working through? There has to be duty-of-care considerations with them for failure to supervise safely.

[Shortandsensible]

Reading that has left me feeling really depressed.
Horrible story.

[David1970]

Is this anything to do with punting?

[scutty brown]

Is this anything to do with punting?

In the sense that she was being paid for virtual sex as opposed to physical sex then yes there is a link.
Its also worth noting that many camera girls also place their offerings in the real world as well, not just online

[David1970]

In the sense that she was being paid for virtual sex as opposed to physical sex then yes there is a link.
Its also worth noting that many camera girls also place their offerings in the real world as well, not just online

She did virtual sex, not real punting sex so not relevant to this site.
That’s why it’s called UK PUNTING and not UK virtualsex
 

[tynetunnel]

She did virtual sex, not real punting sex so not relevant to this site.
That’s why it’s called UK PUNTING and not UK virtualsex

If you feel it is irrelevant you don’t have to read it. I imagine the site owners and moderators will make the decision for you as to whether it’s relevant or not, and will act accordingly 

[winkywanky]

Is this anything to do with punting?

It's strictly not, although paid webcamming might be considered on the fringes?

In any case the thread is clearly and concisely labelled, you can always choose not to read it?

[David1970]

If you feel it is irrelevant you don’t have to read it. I imagine the site owners and moderators will make the decision for you as to whether it’s relevant or not, and will act accordingly 

How could I know it was nothing to do with punting without reading the thread, I don’t have telepathy.

I said it is was not relevant to punting be because it is not and that is my opinion, or are you the only one who is allowed an opinion

[scutty brown]

If you don't like the thread, don't bleat here about it. Report it, explaining why you think it should be deleted. I'm sure your comments will get the attention the admin team feel necessary

[David1970]

If you don't like the thread, don't bleat here about it. Report it, explaining why you think it should be deleted. I'm sure your comments will get the attention the admin team feel necessary

.

Not blearing just answering a comment directed to me, as I am with you

[winkywanky]

How could I know it was nothing to do with punting without reading the thread, I don’t have telepathy.

I said it is was not relevant to punting be because it is not and that is my opinion, or are you the only one who is allowed an opinion

Killed Herself on Webcam is the title thread.

It seems a mite churlish for you to read the thread despite that, decide you don't like it and then say it shouldn't really be on here.

'Opinion' doesn't really come into it I don't think, since you have the power to not read a clearly-labelled thread, or if you do, to not revisit it.

[tynetunnel]

How could I know it was nothing to do with punting without reading the thread, I don’t have telepathy.

I said it is was not relevant to punting be because it is not and that is my opinion, or are you the only one who is allowed an opinion

As has been pointed out already by WW, the clue as to the subject is in the subject itself. It’s all self-explanatory 

[David1970]

Killed Herself on Webcam is the title thread.

It seems a mite churlish for you to read the thread despite that, decide you don't like it and then say it shouldn't really be on here.

'Opinion' doesn't really come into it I don't think, since you have the power to not read a clearly-labelled thread, or if you do, to not revisit it.

I thought she was a SP providing paid sex and the thread had something to do with punting, as this is a punting site, once I read it I realised it had nothing to do with and not relevant to punting.

[winkywanky]

I guess to be fair, it's a bit like The Sun: the headline may make you pick up the paper in the newsagents and read the relevant article inside.

As soon as you've read it you feel a little dirty and wish you never had, and you put it back on the shelf.

But then on your way out when the shopkeeper is glaring at you for not actually buying it, you don't turn around and tell him he shouldn't be selling it  .

[tynetunnel]

As ever, superbly put winkywanky 

[David1970]

I guess to be fair, it's a bit like The Sun: the headline may make you pick up the paper in the newsagents and read the relevant article inside.

As soon as you've read it you feel a little dirty and wish you never had, and you put it back on the shelf.

But then on your way out when the shopkeeper is glaring at you for not actually buying it, you don't turn around and tell him he shouldn't be selling it  .

Well written as usual, but it’s like going to the newsagents, picking up a cooking magazine and finding an article about horse racing in it. The article is not relevant to the magazine.

[winkywanky]

Not really, perhaps like finding an article about saucepans in a cooking magazine?

Quite related.

[David1970]

Not really, perhaps like finding an article about saucepans in a cooking magazine?

Quite related.

Winkywanky you are a good guy so I will agree to disagree with you

[winkywanky]

I was thinking exactly the same 

[cotton]

Winkywanky you are a good guy so I will agree to disagree with you

Thats a whole new topic of discussion 

[Xtro]

Well written as usual, but it’s like going to the newsagents, picking up a cooking magazine and finding an article about horse racing in it. The article is not relevant to the magazine.

You obviously don't remember the horse meat scandal.      

[winkywanky]

Thats a whole new topic of discussion 

Like anyone else, I'm good at some things, not so good at others      .

[winkywanky]

You obviously don't remember the horse meat scandal.      

Good point! 

And on that salient note, it has to be said that thoroughbred meat is as tough as old boots, whereas young fillies who've led a pampered life with a spoilt 16yr-old brat sat astride them are a damn sight more tender (that's the horse, not the girl).

[Gordon Bennett]

Is this anything to do with punting?

Nothing. Thread is in direct violation of Rule 17. 

[David1970]

Nothing. Thread is in direct violation of Rule 17.

+1

[tynetunnel]

If you feel that strongly that the topic is against the rules and is taking up valuable space or distracting you from the rest of the site, you can report this or any other post here and the management and mods will consider it 

It’s managed to survive the last six months quite nicely without seeming to cause any offence or concerns. Every new post just brings it right back up to the top of the list though!