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Author Topic: Pimps on VivaStreet [BBC Panorama]  (Read 3781 times)


Online daviemac

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I'll post on this to get it back to the top, saves another one being started.

Offline shaft10

I'll post on this to get it back to the top, saves another one being started.

Apologies I didnt see this DM  :blush:

Online daviemac

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Apologies I didnt see this DM  :blush:
No probs, seems like everyone's starting one.   

Offline shaft10

No probs, seems like everyone's starting one.

Yeah just seen it on the BBC and got a bit trigger happy on the keyboard, very rarely venture into this section hence I dropped it into off-topic ... schoolboy error  :rolleyes:

Online scutty brown


Offline Brumish

I thought I was cheeky at haggling, some fucker was texting the pimp for a £10 service on the texts  :D

Online Trotter671

Just watching it - the first place looked grim. Second one in Brum £250 per girl!
If the lasses are trafficked/controlled then totally not on :thumbsdown:

Not been mentioned that most of the adverts are B&S and pictures of the good looking lasses in most of adverts are 'borrowed' from 'tinternert

Offline chadpitt

The pimp they name "Catalin Mihailescu" is Romanian.

Trust the BBC not to mention that most of these pimps are Romanian. All they do is obscure the truth because it's not PC.

Vivastreet is not doing a diligent job at all. You used to be able to click on the advertiser and see how many ads they posted. Now you really can't.

They don't insist on verified pictures either. Or use algorithms to block stolen pictures.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 09:21:48 pm by chadpitt »

Offline Vice Admiral

A number of points of interest arose from the programme.  Here are two.

Panorama clearly thought that the same telephone number appearing on 78 ads meant that there were 78 girls being managed from that number.

That would be logistically impossible.  The 78 glamorous ads must surely relate to just a handful of less glamorous “real” girls.

In my thread
www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=313083.msg3370762#msg3370762
I was assuming (without explicitly stating) that each Vivastreet ad using the phone number in question related to a different girl. 

Having seen the Panorama report, I now suspect that the three, four or more Portsmouth ads using the same number probably led to just a couple of girls (who of course bore no resemblance to the girls depicted in the ads).  Or in some cases perhaps to just one?
 
The second point of interest is that Adult Work received not a single mention in the programme.  Is this, I wonder, because AW's various precautions have satisfied investigators that they have systems in place to ensure that pimping is difficult / impossible on AW? 

Seasoned AW-watchers of course know that this is not the case – but at least AW makes an effort.  It's not an open sewer like Vivastreet. 

I wonder, though, whether AW was pleased to escape mention?  Or dismayed?  Vivastreet certainly got a lot of free advertising…

Online scutty brown

The pimp they name "Catalin Mihailescu" is Romanian.



that bastard and his gang got put away a couple of years ago

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=172600

Offline Straightsix

Let's hope we get some British girls advertising from the publicity. Keep your eyes peeled boys!
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Online scutty brown

A number of points of interest arose from the programme.  Here are two.

Panorama clearly thought that the same telephone number appearing on 78 ads meant that there were 78 girls being managed from that number.

That would be logistically impossible.  The 78 glamorous ads must surely relate to just a handful of less glamorous “real” girls.

In my thread
www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=313083.msg3370762#msg3370762
I was assuming (without explicitly stating) that each Vivastreet ad using the phone number in question related to a different girl. 

Having seen the Panorama report, I now suspect that the three, four or more Portsmouth ads using the same number probably led to just a couple of girls (who of course bore no resemblance to the girls depicted in the ads).  Or in some cases perhaps to just one?
 
The second point of interest is that Adult Work received not a single mention in the programme.  Is this, I wonder, because AW's various precautions have satisfied investigators that they have systems in place to ensure that pimping is difficult / impossible on AW? 

Seasoned AW-watchers of course know that this is not the case – but at least AW makes an effort.  It's not an open sewer like Vivastreet. 

I wonder, though, whether AW was pleased to escape mention?  Or dismayed?  Vivastreet certainly got a lot of free advertising…

The 78 profiles probably relate to an outcall agency in a big city, with duplicate adverts for different geographic areas
For instance there's a Manchester outcall gang who sometimes post around 20 profiles in Preston. If they do the same for Bolton, Bury, Oldham, Warrington etc. things soon add up. No idea how many girls are actually on the books of that agency.

With your Portsmouth conundrum you've got what looks like a classic trafficking house with probably three or four rotated girls at any one time - but I suspect you're missing the bigger picture with more profiles with other phone numbers. Typically you'd expect another three or four numbers each with two or three profiles

You ask about Adultwork - the number of overseas girls on there  has been dwindling over the last couple of years to the point where its becoming small fry compared to those on VS. The toughening of the verification process is partly responsible.
But its true what was said in the program - trafficked girls tend to be offered on VS, with some on AW as well.
FWIW there's been a strong hidden campaign against VS for a couple of years now within the parliamentary committees


Offline Vice Admiral

The 78 profiles probably relate to an outcall agency in a big city, with duplicate adverts for different geographic areas
For instance there's a Manchester outcall gang who sometimes post around 20 profiles in Preston. If they do the same for Bolton, Bury, Oldham, Warrington etc. things soon add up. No idea how many girls are actually on the books of that agency.

With your Portsmouth conundrum you've got what looks like a classic trafficking house with probably three or four rotated girls at any one time - but I suspect you're missing the bigger picture with more profiles with other phone numbers. Typically you'd expect another three or four numbers each with two or three profiles

You ask about Adultwork - the number of overseas girls on there  has been dwindling over the last couple of years to the point where its becoming small fry compared to those on VS. The toughening of the verification process is partly responsible.
But its true what was said in the program - trafficked girls tend to be offered on VS, with some on AW as well.
FWIW there's been a strong hidden campaign against VS for a couple of years now within the parliamentary committees

Very interesting.

However I find it puzzling that – with the long-term concerns about Vivastreet that you identify – there haven’t been more attempts to tackle the situation.

I accept that cracking "outcall gangs" would be far from easy.  Indeed that may be one reason why, as I have observed elsewhere, Vivastreet advertising has increasingly been moving away from incalls to outcalls. 

However making life difficult for “incall gangs” – such as the outfit who use the 07365-697992 number in Portsmouth – surely wouldn’t be difficult?

Make a fake appointment.  Raid the premises.  Check the girls’ paperwork.  And proceed accordingly.

I appreciate that low-level operations like this wouldn’t net any Mr Bigs (and indeed perhaps no male miscreants at all); but they would be disruptive.

But maybe the authorities have other priorities? 

And perhaps rightly so.  (Drug-use in south Hampshire, particularly in Gosport, is of epidemic proportions...)

Offline Degsy101

I think as you say the authorities don't see it as a priority. On vs in Southport there are four adverts three with the same number that appear to relate to girls probably trafficked. Purely for research purposes i established they were supposed girls from Hong Kong in the flat. Chances are they are probably Chinese. Would hardly be difficult for the police or immigration to ring and make an appointment and then promptly raid the flat.

Offline kippydon

was a interesting watch last night

but most of us knew what goes on there anyway

Online scutty brown

Very interesting.

However I find it puzzling that – with the long-term concerns about Vivastreet that you identify – there haven’t been more attempts to tackle the situation.
The politicians are starting to wake up and I think you'll see more public pressure soon.

Quote
I accept that cracking "outcall gangs" would be far from easy.  Indeed that may be one reason why, as I have observed elsewhere, Vivastreet advertising has increasingly been moving away from incalls to outcalls. 
Very hard to tackle outcall only gangs due to the logistics involved

Quote
However making life difficult for “incall gangs” – such as the outfit who use the 07365-697992 number in Portsmouth – surely wouldn’t be difficult?

Make a fake appointment.  Raid the premises.  Check the girls’ paperwork.  And proceed accordingly.

I appreciate that low-level operations like this wouldn’t net any Mr Bigs (and indeed perhaps no male miscreants at all); but they would be disruptive.
Such raids would be illegal on several grounds.
They'd effectively be fishing trips, and that's banned. Raids can only happen if there's evidence giving reasonable suspicion.
Sending in an undercover agent could lead to claims of entrapment. And if an undercover agent booked a visit in the expectation of finding trafficked or underage girls, then that visit becomes an illegal act.

Quote
But maybe the authorities have other priorities? 

And perhaps rightly so.  (Drug-use in south Hampshire, particularly in Gosport, is of epidemic proportions...)

Some police commissioners clearly do. But I think the real issue is the problem is so big, WTF do you start?
12,700 escort profiles on Vivastreet, 80+% will be foreign and probably mobile.
At a rough guess that probably equates to around 4-5,000 trafficked / forced overseas girls. Add an unknown number of street girls, parlour girls, chinese massage girls who are marketed below the horizon, and you can easily double that number.
The number of potential victims is too big to resource. Just how do you do it?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 05:37:35 pm by scutty brown »

Online scutty brown

I think as you say the authorities don't see it as a priority. On vs in Southport there are four adverts three with the same number that appear to relate to girls probably trafficked. Purely for research purposes i established they were supposed girls from Hong Kong in the flat. Chances are they are probably Chinese. Would hardly be difficult for the police or immigration to ring and make an appointment and then promptly raid the flat.

They aren't allowed to raid on spec - they need evidence, like a tip-off from a punter telling them something is wrong.
What they can do is make "welfare visits" - but the girls would be legally able to refuse entry

Online daviemac

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Such raids would be illegal on several grounds.

A few years ago Northumbria police used a convicted sex offender to infiltrate and gather info on a grooming gang and that resulted in all members being convicted, so there are ways.

Offline Fragilehand

I thought I was cheeky at haggling, some fucker was texting the pimp for a £10 service on the texts  :D
:D and to think I thought asking for a £20 hand job was a insult to the service provider

Offline Fragilehand

The only thing I was shocked at was how much pimps are spending on advertising. No wonder VS encourages it. Should be held liable though. Single handly by far the place to go for roms

Offline sparkus

Not had time to watch it yet.  Wonder if any male viewers then went online and became first time punters as a result?

Apart from ludicrously specific cases and cross-referencing with Awank, Vulvastreet has for some time been ridiculed on here for b&s and TGTBT adverts.

Offline SpaceRaiderDave


Such raids would be illegal on several grounds.
They'd effectively be fishing trips, and that's banned. Raids can only happen if there's evidence giving reasonable suspicion.
Sending in an undercover agent could lead to claims of entrapment. And if an undercover agent booked a visit in the expectation of finding trafficked or underage girls, then that visit becomes an illegal act.


I agree that busting a single girl flat in the hope of a trafficing convction could be difficult but for two or more girls working from the same place would be easy as all it would take is to make seperate bookings with the different girls at the same which would pass the reasonable suspicion of running a brothel criteria.

The problem for the police is that there are loads of flats that are technically breaking the law so the operation of a brothel has in practice been decriminalised. For those not familar with the law every TCM with more than one girl offering hand jobs can be defined as a brothel as defined by the legislation.
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Online scutty brown

I agree that busting a single girl flat in the hope of a trafficing convction could be difficult but for two or more girls working from the same place would be easy as all it would take is to make seperate bookings with the different girls at the same which would pass the reasonable suspicion of running a brothel criteria.

The problem for the police is that there are loads of flats that are technically breaking the law so the operation of a brothel has in practice been decriminalised. For those not familar with the law every TCM with more than one girl offering hand jobs can be defined as a brothel as defined by the legislation.

But in making the bookings they hit the same problems I mentioned earlier.
The visits would be regarded as a fishing trap (specifically banned) and potentially entrapment. And if a booking was made in the assumption or expectation that there are, or may be trafficking victims on site, then the booking becomes an illegal act - even if it doesn't go ahead.
As for busting the girls in the brothels, its the pimps and traffickers they're after. And hopefully they'll realise one day that the easiest deterrent is to go after the property landlords

Offline luv2kiss54

Ive not used Vivastreet for years. Full of dodgy Ads. This Panarama Programme confirms what i previously thought. Like others have said very surprised Adultwork didnt get mentioned as well.

Offline Fac51

Thought it was interesting how ALL adult adverts are banned in France on VS...could they do this in UK ?  :unknown:


Offline SpaceRaiderDave

Thought it was interesting how ALL adult adverts are banned in France on VS...could they do this in UK ?  :unknown:

Different laws in different countries will have different outcomes.

It also depends on the residency of the company. For example when the USA cahnged their federal laws on protitution a couple of years ago that saw Backpages, Craigslist and others having to either close down or make significant changes and this impacted the UK operation
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Offline sparkus

Thought it was interesting how ALL adult adverts are banned in France on VS...could they do this in UK ?  :unknown:

There's definitely interest among backbench MPs in doing so.

Online scutty brown

There's definitely interest among backbench MPs in doing so.

It's been bubbling around as an option for a couple of years. And it is understandable given that most trafficking cases do involve VS

Online myothernameis

Watching the program right now, a few punters filmed going into brothel, now just wonder if any Irish member has been caught

Dont really expect a reply, but must be scary, especially if your wife is watch the program, and even though your face is blanked out, she recognizes your clothing

Offline advent2016

I use VS sometimes when there is nothing on here (my first choice) of AW and I'm willing to TOFTT. I've often noticed that different numbers go to the same maid hunt group for details and the texts back have the same spelling mistakes. I surprised they didn't mention Gumtree (or I fell asleep) or the other classifieds


Online scutty brown

I use VS sometimes when there is nothing on here (my first choice) of AW and I'm willing to TOFTT. I've often noticed that different numbers go to the same maid hunt group for details and the texts back have the same spelling mistakes. I surprised they didn't mention Gumtree (or I fell asleep) or the other classifieds

Not mentioned because they're insignificant in trafficking cases.
VS is the big common link.

Online pbrown355

So texting around asking for a ridiculously low price is a thing. Has anyone on here ever done it?
And on the more important issue of trafficking, the history of legislation says that the lawmakers do nothing for a very long time then legislate with a ridiculous swinging of the pendulum the other way so instead of setting a proper framework for prostitution they'll incompetently try to legislate it out of existence.
Would love to be wrong but history says otherwise.

Offline senordingdongs

Watching the program right now, a few punters filmed going into brothel, now just wonder if any Irish member has been caught

Dont really expect a reply, but must be scary, especially if your wife is watch the program, and even though your face is blanked out, she recognizes your clothing

I know exactly the location knowing a lot of young professionals that live I that street. Most of the lads on the NI section wouldn't go near it, anywhere with EE particularly Romanian woman in NI is almost certainly human trafficking with a pimp involved.

I watched it and couldn't believe how many they watched going in and out within half an hour.