Hypersonics and defence economics

[mills_and_bhuna]

totally unjustified certainty calling other people idiots etc for not sharing your delusions.

I don't recall calling someone an idiot.
I may have implied it

[RedKettle]

I could say exactly that about you.
Putin bad.
Trump bad.
Biden good but too old.
Netanyahu bad but if only we could get a good Zionist leader who would listen to Biden.
Let's not be hasty in halting arms sales to Israel.
Let's build a port in Gaza because Israel isn't letting in humanitarian aid.

I am not sure I agree with all of those, putin bad is a vast understatement. Don’t remember posting on several of the others, oh sorry as usual you make it up.

[Blackpool Rock]

I am not sure I agree with all of those, putin bad is a vast understatement. Don’t remember posting on several of the others, oh sorry as usual you make it up.

You are one of only a few who still bother to engage with him, most others have given up as the cycle just repeats itself and you get drawn down another rabbit hole with no exit 
I may be wrong but I recall that you previously posted that you weren't going to bother replying either  Unfortunately if this is the case I know it must be hard to resist replying occasionally but all it does is give him the oxygen to spout his usual cut and paste bollocks like a stuck record 

[mr.bluesky]

You are one of only a few who still bother to engage with him, most others have given up as the cycle just repeats itself and you get drawn down another rabbit hole with no exit 
I may be wrong but I recall that you previously posted that you weren't going to bother replying either  Unfortunately if this is the case I know it must be hard to resist replying occasionally but all it does is give him the oxygen to spout his usual cut and paste bollocks like a stuck record 

Probably like a lot of people I have him on ignore but the problem is a lot of people "quote" him so you can still see the same old, same old nonsense he posts. I will happily read what other people post on this subject,  I might not agree with everyone but at least they post something original instead of churning out the same old nonsense. Can everyone please stop quoting him 
As I have said earlier and Blackpool Rock says it's like listening to a record that's got stuck.

[RedKettle]

You are one of only a few who still bother to engage with him, most others have given up as the cycle just repeats itself and you get drawn down another rabbit hole with no exit 
I may be wrong but I recall that you previously posted that you weren't going to bother replying either  Unfortunately if this is the case I know it must be hard to resist replying occasionally but all it does is give him the oxygen to spout his usual cut and paste bollocks like a stuck record 

Yep have ignored him for a while but just decided to have a bit of fun. He is as deranged as ever and I will have a word with myself and stop! 

[Squire Haggard]

I wonder if Babooner has ever been sectioned. The repetitive shit he posts suggests a tenuous grip on reality.

[spiralnotebook]

Hang on, apparently Russia can’t even manage to invade Ukraine so why all the panic about France, Germany, Poland and the UK. Could they be holding back from a full shooting war?

[jackdaw]

Hang on, apparently Russia can’t even manage to invade Ukraine so why all the panic about France, Germany, Poland and the UK. Could they be holding back from a full shooting war?

Holding back to the extent they are refraining from using nukes...

But sending a couple of hundred thousand troops into another country, shelling it with thousands of missiles, etc hardly seems a restrained approach to most people.

How would you characterise their actions??

[cunnyhunt]

Something that would make a reasonable person with no preconceived notions reasonably certain that the US ordered the strike. (Bear in mind that Mills and Bhuna has not been saying that US may have done…but is declaring with a high degree of confidence that they did do it.)

(Cunnyhunt…I’m guessing, of course, so please correct me if I’m wrong.)

Correct. It is the absolute certainty of his position but with no evidence, although he name drops more than a pigeon shits to look authorative.

[mr.bluesky]

I wonder if Babooner has ever been sectioned. The repetitive shit he posts suggests a tenuous grip on reality.

I think we should just deport him to Russia as a threat to national security. 

[Squire Haggard]

I think we should just deport him to Russia as a threat to national security. 

[mills_and_bhuna]

Correct. It is the absolute certainty of his position but with no evidence, although he name drops more than a pigeon shits to look authorative.

Lots of people on here certain of their position with no evidence.
Pretty difficult to ascertain what counts as evidence these dates.
Most of what has been posted on here has been links to articles from The Atlantic, Wikipedia entries, articles from The Daily Mail,Express, Telegraph, all with histories of dissemination of pro war bullshit.
I believe what I believe on an examination of different points of view.
I just happen to have a different point of view from some others on here.
What is currently happening in Gaza and the West Bank just confirms my worldview.
The same people demonising Putin are the very same people rushing to make excuses for Netanyahu and his even more deranged colleagues.
The very same people crying about China supplying Russia with chips or whatever are the very same people resisting calls to halt arm sales to Israel.
The same people spreading now debunked claims about mass rape on October 7, beheaded babies, babies in ovens,etc. are curiously silent about mass graves found at Gaza hospitals in the last few days.
Just remember Putin is the one calling for a ceasefire.
The US is the one vetoing it.
The UK is the one abstaining.

[mills_and_bhuna]

I think we should just deport him to Russia as a threat to national security. 

Nice to see you are in favour of free speech.
You'll be really pleased with all these draconian measures policing the Internet being pushed through.

[Henry767]

Some interesting points from M&B there.

[PumpDump]

Lots of people on here certain of their position with no evidence.
Pretty difficult to ascertain what counts as evidence these dates.
Most of what has been posted on here has been links to articles from The Atlantic, Wikipedia entries, articles from The Daily Mail,Express, Telegraph, all with histories of dissemination of pro war bullshit.
I believe what I believe on an examination of different points of view.
I just happen to have a different point of view from some others on here.
What is currently happening in Gaza and the West Bank just confirms my worldview.
The same people demonising Putin are the very same people rushing to make excuses for Netanyahu and his even more deranged colleagues.
The very same people crying about China supplying Russia with chips or whatever are the very same people resisting calls to halt arm sales to Israel.
The same people spreading now debunked claims about mass rape on October 7, beheaded babies, babies in ovens,etc. are curiously silent about mass graves found at Gaza hospitals in the last few days.
Just remember Putin is the one calling for a ceasefire.
The US is the one vetoing it.
The UK is the one abstaining.

Agree 100%

[spiralnotebook]

How would you characterise their actions??

Following the US/UK model in Iraq.

[akauya]

The same people demonising Putin are the very same people rushing to make excuses for Netanyahu and his even more deranged colleagues.
The very same people crying about China supplying Russia with chips or whatever are the very same people resisting calls to halt arm sales to Israel.
The same people spreading now debunked claims about mass rape on October 7, beheaded babies, babies in ovens,etc. are curiously silent about mass graves found at Gaza hospitals in the last few days.

I agree with that.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Following the US/UK model in Iraq.

They are far more restrained than the US/UK model in Iraq.
No shock and awe.
They pulled back near the beginning to start negotiations (which the US and UK scuppered).
Ukrainian negotiators have confirmed this before

[jackdaw]

I agree with that.

Really? So there isn’t a significant number of people that deplore the actions of BOTH Netanyahu and Putin? (Personally I think deploring both is probably the most common position for most Brits.)

[Squire Haggard]

Really? So there isn’t a significant number of people that deplore the actions of BOTH Netanyahu and Putin? (Personally I think deploring both is probably the most common position for most Brits.)

[mills_and_bhuna]

Really? So there isn’t a significant number of people that deplore the actions of BOTH Netanyahu and Putin? (Personally I think deploring both is probably the most common position for most Brits.)

I agree with what you are saying.
I was quite clearly drawing attention to the disparity between the views of the ordinary public and the actions and rhetoric of our politicians.
And Akauya obviously recognised that

[lostandfound]

Rhetoric is ramping up a bit, and the Russian pantomime of nuclear drills (cried wolf how many times now?).

Europe has to step up and maybe it is doing so.

[David1970]

Really? So there isn’t a significant number of people that deplore the actions of BOTH Netanyahu and Putin? (Personally I think deploring both is probably the most common position for most Brits.)

Got to agree with you, strange how some Kremlin mouthpieces think Putin is correct to attack and murder, but The Zionist Netanyahu is wrong.
Both are the same, both are murdering scum, decent people know that.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Rhetoric is ramping up a bit, and the Russian pantomime of nuclear drills (cried wolf how many times now?).

Europe has to step up and maybe it is doing so.

Why don't you sign up?

[mills_and_bhuna]

Got to agree with you, strange how some Kremlin mouthpieces think Putin is correct to attack and murder, but The Zionist Netanyahu is wrong.
Both are the same, both are murdering scum, decent people know that.

There is really no comparison
One has sent bags of money to a more militant opposition to justify his hard-line position.
The other has repeatedly called for a negotiated settlement.
One has spouted genocidal rhetoric on numerous occasions and done nothing to reign in his even more deranged colleagues in Government.
The other has called his adversaries on the battlefield brothers and not animals.
One has launched an offensive deliberately targeting the hospitals and civic infrastructure and killed probably over 40,000 civilians, mostly women and children.
They also initiated policies aimed at starving the population.
They've been using this as a weapon since 2006 by the way.
October 7 was just an excuse to intensify it.
Unfortunately for Israel the whole world has had it's eyes opened and there is a panic where the supporters of this rogue state have had to go on a narrative offensive to crack down on protests and legitimate criticism of the perpetrators.
Gaza has homemade rockets to try to fight back.
Ukraine has had billions of dollars of NATO hardware and a PR campaign to boot.
You really should cut down on the Koolaid

[RedKettle]

Got to agree with you, strange how some Kremlin mouthpieces think Putin is correct to attack and murder, but The Zionist Netanyahu is wrong.
Both are the same, both are murdering scum, decent people know that.

Broadly agree with you, both unpleasant characters.  Netanyahu does have a democratic mandate, sort off, and was responding to an actual attack, and a particularly brutal one, on his country. Putin was just going for an ego driven land grab. Although I have listened to M and B so understand his justification was that he had started wetting his bed in fear because of America.

My comments are just looking at the relative positions as murdering scum and should not be taken as a defence of Netanyahu.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Broadly agree with you, both unpleasant characters.  Netanyahu does have a democratic mandate, sort off, and was responding to an actual attack, and a particularly brutal one, on his country. Putin was just going for an ego driven land grab. Although I have listened to M and B so understand his justification was that he had started wetting his bed in fear because of America.

My comments are just looking at the relative positions as murdering scum and should not be taken as a defence of Netanyahu.

Putin won an election BTW.
He is more popular in Russia than Biden is in the US.
Netanyahu is in coalition with people Stepan Banderas would be proud of.
The kind of people who think an ethnostate is a democracy.

[RedKettle]

Putin won an election BTW.

You cannot be serious!!!  Not that you have much/any credibility but you would lose it with that comment.

[cunnyhunt]

Putin won an election BTW.

Do you actually think the result is credible

[David1970]

Do you actually think the result is credible

He does think it’s credible, that is why he is not credible and so many people have him on ignore. Best just to ignore his ramblings about his hero Putin.

[Squire Haggard]

Putin won an election BTW.

Only those with baboon brains will believe that he did.

[chrishornx]

Only those with baboon brains will believe that he did.

nevertheless the 'Idiot' will be so happy

and no doubt MaxQ will be expressing joy at some stage after all it was a very impressive performance winning such a high percentage of the vote - proves how popular he is

[Squire Haggard]

nevertheless the 'Idiot' will be so happy

and no doubt MaxQ will be expressing joy at some stage after all it was a very impressive performance winning such a high percentage of the vote - proves how popular he is

If Putin said that he won 110% of the vote they would both believe him. 

[chrishornx]

If Putin said that he won 110% of the vote they would both believe him. 

oh yes forgot there was the 'other one'

[mills_and_bhuna]

Do you actually think the result is credible

More credible than the idea that Joe Biden won 81 million votes and decides US policy.
More credible than the idea that Putin was fixing the 2016 election for Trump.
More credible than the idea that the US gives a shit about Palestinian lives.
More credible than the idea that Antisemitism was the issue with Corbyn rather than, let's say, Socialism(gasp!).
More credible than the idea that Russia blew up it's own pipeline.
More credible than the idea that Covid came from a food market when there was a CDC funded lab doing gain of function research a couple of miles away.
Yet you all bought that shit hook, line and sinker.

[petermisc]

Do you actually think the result is credible

It is not hard to win an election when you imprison and kill off all the plausible contenders.

[mills_and_bhuna]

It is not hard to win an election when you imprison and kill off all the plausible contenders.

If you seriously think Navalny was a plausible contender I have a beachfront property in Staffordshire you may be interested in 

[scutty brown]

If you seriously think Navalny was a plausible contender I have a beachfront property in Staffordshire you may be interested in 

Doesn't matter whether you think he was plausible or not.
The fact remains he would have been in the contest if Putin hadn't arranged his death.
Whether he could have won or not we'll never know now he's dead. But Putin denied him the possibility by killing him.
The fact is Putin was the only plausible contender because any other unsanctioned candidate would have experienced unexplained death

[Iamforreal]

As Stalin said : The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do....it is the same with Putin, he is becoming Stalin 2.0 slowly without the gulags, he modified the constitution so he can be in power for as long as he likes, the elections are rigged there since forever.

[mills_and_bhuna]

As Stalin said : The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do....it is the same with Putin, he is becoming Stalin 2.0 slowly without the gulags, he modified the constitution so he can be in power for as long as he likes, the elections are rigged there since forever.

Well it seems the Russians quite like it.
He stands up for them against the Western imperialist agenda.
He is socially conservative which clearly strikes a chord given what the polls say.
Biden is currently at 37% among Americans.
It blows my mind that that figure isn't 3.7%.
And the young voters (if they vote) are even more sceptical.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Doesn't matter whether you think he was plausible or not.
The fact remains he would have been in the contest if Putin hadn't arranged his death.
Whether he could have won or not we'll never know now he's dead. But Putin denied him the possibility by killing him.
The fact is Putin was the only plausible contender because any other unsanctioned candidate would have experienced unexplained death

Have you any proof that Putin had him killed?
Nothing to gain from killing a Western stooge.
Especially one with minimal support from anyone outside Washington, Brussels and London.
I burnt my toast this morning.
I'm blaming the Kremlin 

[RedKettle]

Have you any proof that Putin had him killed?
Nothing to gain from killing a Western stooge.
Especially one with minimal support from anyone outside Washington, Brussels and London.
I burnt my toast this morning.
I'm blaming the Kremlin 

You have to be the most one sided utterly biased person I have ever come across.  You have absolute certainly that Russian did not blow up that pipe line despite no evidence yet will not accept the idea that Putin might have killed a political opponent despite the fact that so many of them have had "accidents".   

You will go on endlessly about any conflict in the war and how the US are responsible, using excessive force etc but will not even attribute any responsibility for Ukraine to Putin despite the fact he literally ordered the war to start.

You (and this is priceless) believe the Russian election is credible (where there is a ton of evidence to say otherwise) whilst completely discounting the US election where there is a genuine democracy in operation, albeit with flaws especially around election funding. 

Honestly it has become funny.

You would do much better to look for common ground and build your views from there.  Instead of being rude to us all work out where we might agree - for example you make a good point around what would happen if the Palestinians were treated with respect etc.  I think many of us would get behind that, could you then develop it into how that is conbined with dealing with Hamas?  Again I think most of us could probably agree that the current conflict will simply provide Hamas with more fired up recruits - there is a stat around about the % of Hamas fighters were orphaned by Isreal.

If you back away from outright hatred of Isreal when quite a few of my generation feel an instinctive support for the country and find the common ground you might find things to be more constructive.

If you led with credible stuff rather than the conspiracy bullshit you might actually start to influence people rather than either being ignored or laughed at.

[petermisc]

You have to be the most one sided utterly biased person I have ever come across.  You have absolute certainly that Russian did not blow up that pipe line despite no evidence yet will not accept the idea that Putin might have killed a political opponent despite the fact that so many of them have had "accidents".   

If you led with credible stuff rather than the conspiracy bullshit you might actually start to influence people rather than either being ignored or laughed at.

I honestly don't understand why you let yourself get drawn in.  Where is your proof is his stock response.  But try asking him that of any of his ludicrous suggestions, and see what happens.

[petermisc]

Hang on, apparently Russia can’t even manage to invade Ukraine so why all the panic about France, Germany, Poland and the UK. Could they be holding back from a full shooting war?

Remember that Russia only invaded after it had spent several decades undermining democracy in Ukraine.  Countries with a significant Russian population, and can see similar meddling, are understandably concerned about what could happen, not immediately, but in the longer term if Russia continues to chip away at its neighbours.