Declining numbers of SPs

[jimbobted]

I stay in hotels semi regularly for work. They've got ridiculously expensive the past 6 months or so. This time last year you could get a decent hotel in London for less than £100. Now that won't even get you a shitty Travel lodge in York.
But I don't think that's the reason there seems to be fewer young British SPs around. I think it's more of a generational thing, attitudes change.
Also around 5 to 10 years ago there were a number of documentaries on the sex trade and I know from conversations with some girls that that's how they first found AW etc. I remember one telling me "I was going out, having fun and going home with older guys. Then I saw AW mentioned on TV and thought 'well I'm halfway there already'".
I bet if someone that influences younger people did a documentary about hookers and punters we'd see a bump in the numbers.

[willie loman]

willie you always manage to comment something so far removed from reality its astounding

there is also the option of working in a sauna, no problem with renting a flat etc, i would be interested to know how many sex workers you actually know, you seem to feel your difficulties are the general situation.

[Adoniron]

I stay in hotels semi regularly for work. They've got ridiculously expensive the past 6 months or so. This time last year you could get a decent hotel in London for less than £100. Now that won't even get you a shitty Travel lodge in York.
But I don't think that's the reason there seems to be fewer young British SPs around. I think it's more of a generational thing, attitudes change.
Also around 5 to 10 years ago there were a number of documentaries on the sex trade and I know from conversations with some girls that that's how they first found AW etc. I remember one telling me "I was going out, having fun and going home with older guys. Then I saw AW mentioned on TV and thought 'well I'm halfway there already'".
I bet if someone that influences younger people did a documentary about hookers and punters we'd see a bump in the numbers.

A bit O/T but I also travel for work and hotel prices have gone crazy since Covid, particularly during midweek. I was told that in London it's particularly due to workers staying there when they are in the office but returning home at weekends. An escort will need a one hour punt just to pay her hotel bill for the night.

[Maak]

Well........something is certainly deflecting British girls in the 18-25 range from starting in the business, and it can really only be OnlyFans or the sugardaddy sites

Young 18-25 British girls are tech savvy & can generate income from online from IG, Tik tok, OF, sugar daddy sites etc. The older WGs are less tech savvy & rely on the old school WGs route

[southcoastpunter]

Young 18-25 British girls are tech savvy & can generate income from online from IG, Tik tok, OF, sugar daddy sites etc. The older WGs are less tech savvy & rely on the old school WGs route

this is def true - in 2020 i started seeing an American girl via Seeking (aged 21 and over here at uni) who started her own IG and Tik Tok channel. she told me that after 6 months she was earning about £200 pm and realistically expected in hit £1000pm in another 6 months - then she would be sent dresses and handbags etc by manufacturers to be seen in and invited to appear as a (paid) guest on other channels etc. She had her head screwed on right and i didn't doubt her claims for a minute.

Covid and lockdown came along and she hurriedly returned to the USA and i lost contact with her. 

[Lou2019]

there is also the option of working in a sauna, no problem with renting a flat etc, i would be interested to know how many sex workers you actually know, you seem to feel your difficulties are the general situation.

So glad to hear you have all the solutions 

[willie loman]

So glad to hear you have all the solutions 

this year ive visited around 5 girls working in flats as it were,found them on adultwork, in fact they were using their own home, not an option for everyone, but to explain a shortage of wgs due to accommodation costs doesnt  convince me.

[jesse4585]

...
Have others noticed the same trends?

Yes, others have noticed declining numbers of SPs on AW in their local area, especially under 30s. For example, the good Vice Admiral here:
https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=368954.0

As Scutty mentioned, a big reason for said decline is migration to other platforms like viva & kommons. Once you account for that, I'm not sure the decline in SPs is all that big, at least not nationwide.

There may be an all SP decline, though probably much smaller than the AW trend. The causality of any 'all SP' decline is going to be complex, with different drivers for different types of lass. Let's consider stunners v regular lasses.

For true stunners, the ongoing refinement of platforms is to their advantage. Increasingly easy for some to earn ok money doing purely online SW. Others may be less suited to online, but can pick up arrangements from rich SDs able to afford monthly allowances of about 2-10 K.

It's less rosy for regular lasses, even ones in their early 20s.  Economic issues are going to be a big reason. Willie Loman disagrees - but he posted evidence in support of this by saying "almost all punters own property"  A bit of an over statement, but unlike the statement on hotels, may have some general truth to it.  But it's not going to be as the typical property owner (middle to old age) has a high sex drive than young men! 

Back in 2018 when the economy was stronger,  a higher proportion of young men could afford the occasional punt. So more overall demand and easier for a regular lass to make ok money whoreing after paying for outgoings.  Not that is was truly easy for all even back then.

On a happier note, cost of living crisis may be easing a bit,  so perhaps more able to punt in recent months, which may lead to more SPs.

[Lou2019]

this year ive visited around 5 girls working in flats as it were,found them on adultwork, in fact they were using their own home, not an option for everyone, but to explain a shortage of wgs due to accommodation costs doesnt  convince me.

So they weren’t working from a sauna nor renting a flat to work? They were working from their own home.  so that’s nothing about what you said initially 

[willie loman]

So they weren’t working from a sauna nor renting a flat to work? They were working from their own home.  so that’s nothing about what you said initially 

you are just being an arse, try reading my posts on this thread, my point and i will repeat it, is accommodation prices are not a reason for declining number of wgs, the actual state of the economy has little impact on the sex business, if anything the average punter becomes wealthier year on year, as the average punter is a homeowner.

[Lou2019]

you are just being an arse, try reading my posts on this thread, my point and i will repeat it, is accommodation prices are not a reason for declining number of wgs, the actual state of the economy has little impact on the sex business, if anything the average punter becomes wealthier year on year, as the average punter is a homeowner.

No I’m not being an arse, no need to be rude I’m just trying to make sense of what you are saying. Clearly I misunderstood 

[big-al93]

you are just being an arse, try reading my posts on this thread, my point and i will repeat it, is accommodation prices are not a reason for declining number of wgs, the actual state of the economy has little impact on the sex business, if anything the average punter becomes wealthier year on year, as the average punter is a homeowner.

While I'm not going to argue with your point of the average punter (if there is such a thing) being a homeowner, and in some areas (not mine) they may be appreciating in value by £20k a year, this has no real benefit until the point where you downsize. IMHO the homeowners in the areas where the houses are appreciating, people with mortages are more likely to be streched to the limits financially in order to obtain that house. With the higher interest rates biting and rising prices, most will  have less disposable income, which is the kind required to go punting.

[hairdownthere]

its never been easier to find a cheap hotel room anywhere, with staff happy to turn a blind eye, almost all punters own property, without taking your hands out of your pocket you are 20 k richer every year, this is the reality of the economy, the reasons for the shortage of hookers lies elsewhere

Im certainly not 20k richer each year, I've been in my house for 6 years and it certainly hasn't increased in value by 120k

[willie loman]

While I'm not going to argue with your point of the average punter (if there is such a thing) being a homeowner, and in some areas (not mine) they may be appreciating in value by £20k a year, this has no real benefit until the point where you downsize. IMHO the homeowners in the areas where the houses are appreciating, people with mortages are more likely to be streched to the limits financially in order to obtain that house. With the higher interest rates biting and rising prices, most will  have less disposable income, which is the kind required to go punting.

punters tend to be mature, and hence a wee bit advanced on their mortgage journey.

[willie loman]

Im certainly not 20k richer each year, I've been in my house for 6 years and it certainly hasn't increased in value by 120k

you are quibbling, at a certain point, your house will increase in value each year by more than you could realistically spend on punting

[KatieEdinburgh]

there is also the option of working in a sauna, no problem with renting a flat etc, i would be interested to know how many sex workers you actually know, you seem to feel your difficulties are the general situation.

I don’t have a problem with renting somewhere as I can afford it thanks

I am pointing out you saying that hotel prices are the “cheapest and easiest” to book than ever. That is factually incorrect. It’s more expensive than before we are in a cost of living crisis

And the average punter is 20k richer a year    you are living in cloud cuckoo land


We clearly have very opposite perspectives on the same city. One with infamously high rent costs

Perhaps as in another thread you implied you own a short term let , yes landlords are 20k richer year by year not everyone is . You’re biased that way



I know about 30 or so sex workers in real life. If you count ones I chat to online then 75+ But that’s got nothing to do with anything  my opinion is my own only

[willie loman]

I don’t have a problem with renting somewhere as I can afford it thanks

I am pointing out you saying that hotel prices are the “cheapest and easiest” to book than ever. That is factually incorrect. It’s more expensive than before we are in a cost of living crisis

And the average punter is 20k richer a year    you are living in cloud cuckoo land


We clearly have very opposite perspectives on the same city. One with infamously high rent costs

Perhaps as in another thread you implied you own a short term let , yes landlords are 20k richer year by year not everyone is . You’re biased that way



I know about 30 or so sex workers in real life. If you count ones I chat to online then 75+ But that’s got nothing to do with anything  my opinion is my own only

in  any given week, in edinburgh there are deals in hotels, edinburghs best known aw girl, who has been doing the job for 15 years works from various high end hotels, she is incidentally the cheapest, she started working from a room in a shared flat, i wont give her name, but she indicates she is the best oral genital experience to be be had, with respect its difficult to imagine how any normal working girl  would know 30 sex workers,  i believe you, but you are being disingenous, why dont you explain how you know 30 working girls? to be honest i have an idea,,,

[KatieEdinburgh]

with respect its difficult to imagine how any normal working girl  would know 30 sex workers,  i believe you, but you are being disingenous, why dont you explain how you know 30 working girls?

Through the union? Lmao .

Plus working with a  few of them too. It’s hilarious  you think that’s not possible 

[willie loman]

Through the union? Lmao .

Plus working with a  few of them too. It’s hilarious  you think that’s not possible 

thats the first time i have heard of a union, care to explain? i dont think i know a single working girl who would claim to know 30 working girls, and that includes sauna girls who do actually know other working girls.

[KatieEdinburgh]

thats the first time i have heard of a union, care to explain?

Edinburgh has a very active section of the Sex Workers Union. We recently campaigned against the closure of the strip clubs sigh … And other stuff

But of course if you haven’t heard of something it doesn’t exist

External Link/Members Only
External Link/Members Only

[willie loman]

Edinburgh has a very active section of the Sex Workers Union. We recently campaigned against the closure of the strip clubs sigh … And other stuff

But of course if you haven’t heard of something it doesn’t exist

External Link/Members Only
External Link/Members Only

how come you have been so coy about this? i have no views on strip clubs etc,

[KatieEdinburgh]

how come you have been so coy about this?

What do you mean ?  It is well known in the industry

I’ve got to go for dinner so won’t be replying for a bit . Bye

[willie loman]

What do you mean ?  It is well known in the industry

I’ve got to go for dinner so won’t be replying for a bit . Bye

fine, look up disingenuous, while waiting for your tatties to boil.

[Strawberry]

One of the major unions had a sex worker section, I have known about the union Katie mentioned for quite a while now - have been a member of both. The major union provided me with free legal advice when I became stuck in a contract with an escort directory that I can't even remember the name of, they had been very clever in their wording.

Also I have attended conferences run by NUM/UKNSWP at which I met other sex workers. Plus there are various outreach projects in major cities that connect SPs. So it is quite possible for SPs to be in a network, talk to many other SPs some set up groups of their own either by geography or a site/service in common. Lots of SPs giving each other advice, support, tips.

[daviemac]

One of the major unions had a sex worker section, I have known about the union Katie mentioned for quite a while now - have been a member of both. The major union provided me with free legal advice when I became stuck in a contract with an escort directory that I can't even remember the name of, they had been very clever in their wording.

Also I have attended conferences run by NUM/UKNSWP at which I met other sex workers. Plus there are various outreach projects in major cities that connect SPs. So it is quite possible for SPs to be in a network, talk to many other SPs some set up groups of their own either by geography or a site/service in common. Lots of SPs giving each other advice, support, tips.

The charity Changing Lives / Net-Reach hold monthly meetings in the NE for sex workers, they invite accountants and police DLO's etc so quite a few will know each other.

[willie loman]

One of the major unions had a sex worker section, I have known about the union Katie mentioned for quite a while now - have been a member of both. The major union provided me with free legal advice when I became stuck in a contract with an escort directory that I can't even remember the name of, they had been very clever in their wording.

Also I have attended conferences run by NUM/UKNSWP at which I met other sex workers. Plus there are various outreach projects in major cities that connect SPs. So it is quite possible for SPs to be in a network, talk to many other SPs some set up groups of their own either by geography or a site/service in common. Lots of SPs giving each other advice, support, tips.

i am totally in favour of normalisation of sex work and unions etc, but misrepresnting the reality of affordability of flats etc is in no ones interest.

[Blackpool Rock]

While I'm not going to argue with your point of the average punter (if there is such a thing) being a homeowner, and in some areas (not mine) they may be appreciating in value by £20k a year, this has no real benefit until the point where you downsize. IMHO the homeowners in the areas where the houses are appreciating, people with mortages are more likely to be streched to the limits financially in order to obtain that house. With the higher interest rates biting and rising prices, most will  have less disposable income, which is the kind required to go punting.

Exactly, if my house increases in value then i'm precisely no better off as I still have to live somewhere
Yes in terms of the value of your estate you may be theoretically better off but it's no good if you can't realise that asset, my house is bought and paid for however i've often said that it's actual value to me is Zero "As I have to live somewhere", in fact it's a liability as you have to pay to maintain the fucking things

[willie loman]

Exactly, if my house increases in value then i'm precisely no better off as I still have to live somewhere
Yes in terms of the value of your estate you may be theoretically better off but it's no good if you can't realise that asset, my house is bought and paid for however i've often said that it's actual value to me is Zero "As I have to live somewhere", in fact it's a liability as you have to pay to maintain the fucking things

But you dont pay rent, or a mortgage, plus psychologically, and this impacts on your attitude to punting, and discretional expenditure, you must feel richer?

[Blackpool Rock]

But you dont pay rent, or a mortgage, plus psychologically, and this impacts on your attitude to punting, and discretional expenditure, you must feel richer?

Correct I don't pay rent or a mortgage and i'm exactly the same now day to day in my pocket whether my house was the same value as last year; 20K more or 20K less therefore I don't feel any richer as i'm not

[willie loman]

Correct I don't pay rent or a mortgage and i'm exactly the same now day to day in my pocket whether my house was the same value as last year; 20K more or 20K less therefore I don't feel any richer as i'm not

fair enough but i dont believe you, if your house has increased in value since you bought it, you will feel richer, pretend otherwise if its suits you, you convince no one, british life in the last 40 years has been based on this.

[Blackpool Rock]

fair enough but i dont believe you, if your house has increased in value since you bought it, you will feel richer, pretend otherwise if its suits you, you convince no one, british life in the last 40 years has been based on this.

Which is why so many people got into debt borrowing money against the increased value of their houses, I didn't and I don't need to pretend or justify anything to you or anyone else, if you or anyone else aren't convinced then I really couldn't care less 

[contentguy]

fair enough but i dont believe you, if your house has increased in value since you bought it, you will feel richer, pretend otherwise if its suits you, you convince no one, british life in the last 40 years has been based on this.

Believe it or not, I don’t feel richer because my house has increased in value.
It’s not about what I can sell for, it’s about the earning power of said funds.

I don’t feel richer as my mortgage is less of a feature in my life.
And I don’t have more opportunity to punt.

That’s all me, but you seem to want to speak for “british life” (sic) of 40 years.
What’s your basis for this nonsense?

[daviemac]

fair enough but i dont believe you, if your house has increased in value since you bought it, you will feel richer, pretend otherwise if its suits you, you convince no one, british life in the last 40 years has been based on this.

A house is a fixed asset so it's value is irrelevant to day to day living. What liquid assets you have dictate punting habits.

[willie loman]

Believe it or not, I don’t feel richer because my house has increased in value.
It’s not about what I can sell for, it’s about the earning power of said funds.

I don’t feel richer as my mortgage is less of a feature in my life.
And I don’t have more opportunity to punt.

That’s all me, but you seem to want to speak for “british life” (sic) of 40 years.
What’s your basis for this nonsense?

ive made clear its my view, if you dont feel richer as your house increases in value, that entirely up to you, again i dont believe you for one minute.

[willie loman]

A house is a fixed asset so it's value is irrelevant to day to day living. What liquid assets you have dictate punting habits.

i understand the logic of your position, i am talking about how people feel about their position, and that impacts on their spending,

[daviemac]

i understand the logic of your position, i am talking about how people feel about their position, and that impacts on their spending,

How you feel is also irrelevant, you are limited by the disposable income you have.

[Blackpool Rock]

How you feel is also irrelevant, you are limited by the disposable income you have.

I believe there have been times in the past when house prices were shooting up and it did provide what they dubbed "The feel good factor" and they did go out and spend.
Unfortunately as I previously posted they didn't necessarily do it with disposable income that they actually had but they put it on credit or extended their mortgage as they had "equity" in their house

All that does is store up more problems for the future not just for themselves but for the country as a whole when times get hard and they suddenly find they aren't able to pay it back, someone pays and it's the rest of us.
My dad was old school and saved up for things before we had them, if he didn't have the money then we never had it, I remember him saying never get a loan, the only thing you should ever borrow money for is a house

[petermisc]

My dad was old school and saved up for things before we had them, if he didn't have the money then we never had it, I remember him saying never get a loan, the only thing you should ever borrow money for is a house

Back in his day, the only ways of getting a loan was by applying to your bank manager, which would almost certainly involve a face to face interview, or from some dodgy back street lender.  When I started working, credit cards were only for the wealthy - my first video recorder was bought on Hire Purchase, which involved completing a multi page form, and if I missed any of the payments, Iost my money.  No wonder people of that generation believed that you should never get a loan.

The ready availability of credit cards really changed the general perception debt.

[petermisc]

A bit O/T but I also travel for work and hotel prices have gone crazy since Covid, particularly during midweek.

I am reliant on stays in hotels for my punting, as the local scene is nonexistent, and can confirm what you say.

One of my regulars had to give up her London flat, and hasn't been able to find another, as there are so few available, and those that are, are either ridiculously expensive or are snapped up before you can blink.  Is currently booking hotels for her stays in London, but says costs for summer stays are going through the roof, so doubts she will be able to afford to come here then.  Fortunately my other regulars have long term rentals, but certainly the difficulties in getting affordable accommodation is a factor in London at least.

Looking through ads in VS for Birmingham, London etc, if you were to strip out all the Brazilians and dodgy Chinese offerings, there would be little left.  Still some Thais and ROMs, but nowhere near the numbers of a year or so ago.

[Curious CP]

I also have notice the slow decline of the number of SP's, it is such a shame, the root cause is the rise and rise of webcamming, girls can earn good money staying at home just sitting in front of their mobile phone and broadcasting themselves naked and performing sex acts for money, no human interaction, no risk of violence or disease.
There is no substitute for a sexual experience with a real person, but that is the way it is going - very sad.
Like the song "Video killed the radio star" is now "Webcamming killed the massage parlour star".

[marc_hotsteppa]

I don't think webcamming or OF are to blame as there's far too much competition with the virtual platforms unless you really stand out and are prepared to put the work in which the majority of SP's I don't believe would.

Financial burdens are the biggest reason as the cost of living (food, fuel, hotel, rent etc) has rocketed for a LOT of people and many SP's who are not great with money won't have accounted for this and when they've been earning decent money, like a lot of people (I'm generalising to a degree here) the more you earn, the more you spend - if you're not great with money and don't plan/invest/have savings.

There are some SP's who do this work to make enough to put them through a particular course as they want to enter a certain career and when they've got enough to pay for that and made more to see them through the course they either stop or cut down the hours quite a bit.

There are savvy SP's who will use sites like Dayuse to get cheaper hotel rooms and use them between 9am and 5pm and move around certain places where they have built up a regular client base and you tend to see them still on AW, having had the same account for 10+ years.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Let them drive trains! 600 quid a shift that right!?...

Or join ASLEF!...

[triggs91]

+1.

Guys that think that the average content creator on OF or other such sites is making a  good living are deluded

Plus the amount of work you have to put in to boost your profile is massive (this goes for any social media where you're not already famous) - you have to post every day, and with the types of posts on OF that means 2-3 hours of making sure you have the right picture of the dildo going up your arse. Then you have to cross that post across Twitter etc.

Custom videos are great earners - £200 for a 10 minute video of how you're going to smother some guy you treacle and roll him on his mums carpet and make him eat the fluff he gets stuck to him? Wish I could get paid for that

[puntingking]

Plus the amount of work you have to put in to boost your profile is massive (this goes for any social media where you're not already famous) - you have to post every day, and with the types of posts on OF that means 2-3 hours of making sure you have the right picture of the dildo going up your arse. Then you have to cross that post across Twitter etc.

Custom videos are great earners - £200 for a 10 minute video of how you're going to smother some guy you treacle and roll him on his mums carpet and make him eat the fluff he gets stuck to him? Wish I could get paid for that

still, it is harder working in a shop, a salon or on a building site 

Sometimes I wish i could be a female sometimes 

[jamiekinkxxx]

still, it is harder working in a shop, a salon or on a building site 

Sometimes I wish i could be a female sometimes 

...depends on your defintion of hard work!

[rubric]

Most recent SP I saw (reviewed) basically said 'It's the economy stoopid'
(i) Increased interest rates making mortgages and all other debt harder to service = less money spare for punting activity
(ii) Increased rents (because housing and mortgages in short supply) = SP having to pay higher rent via fewer customers

I have no doubt the ii is true and along with various AML bits of legislation make it difficult/expensive to rent a flat.  Back in the early 00s there was an agency near me who had a roster of girls and a separate roster of available flats which were kept empty and cleaned and into which they could book 'incall' appointments.  I'd assume such arrangements are very rare these days because even if you own the properties outright there's still the opportunity cost of missed rent.

That's probably why we get these various touring outfits - often with girls from abroad who seem to live on the premises for the time they work there - it's a way of maximising earnings and minimising costs in an era of high rents.

And the independent who rents a separate flat alone or with one other girl isn't economically viable.

[simon07]

Unless, she has bought the flat and uses it as a punting/rental investment.
I remember Chardonnay in Birmingham (punting over 12 years +) told me that is what she did.
I agree it’s rare.

[rubric]

Unless, she has bought the flat and uses it as a punting/rental investment.

Sure, though unless you are airbnb'ing it the two things tend to be mutually exclusive.

[magnetico]

Most flats leases specify that you cannot run a business from the flat, so the management company can easily ban any attempts of running a prostitution business in the flat.

[Alexmck]

A house is a fixed asset so it's value is irrelevant to day to day living. What liquid assets you have dictate punting habits.

Agree