3 million punters in the UK?

[Charliehutton]

If you dislike trivial, inconsequential posts, by the way, give this a miss. It's just idle curiosity, really.

I've read a number of times recently that there are an estimated 70,000 sex workers in the UK. I've no idea how that's been worked out, but it's been referred to in a number of newspaper articles and TV programmes, and gone unchallenged.

I've never read an estimate of the number of punters, though, and I'm just curious as to how many of us there are. So I've tried to work it out, based on nothing but back-of-a-fag-packet maths and guesswork; I get the feeling there's a basic flaw in my logic somewhere, but I can't put my finger on it.

Not all of those 70,000 are working girls, as such, but I think it's fair to assume the vast majority are, so let's say there are 60,000 of them. They'll vary from occasional part-timers, perhaps seeing 4-5 customers a week, to busy full-timers seeing 50 or more. Let's say on average they see 20 customers a week, just less than 3 a day, or 4 a day in a 5 day working week.

That's an average of 1,000 customers per year, so the maths is easy. 60,000 girls at 1000 customers per year, makes 60 million punts in total.

Let's define an 'active' punter as someone who has paid for sex in the last twelve months. Some of us may punt just once or twice a year, some once or twice a week, so as an average let's say once or twice a month, so about 20 per year.

So 60 million punts, with each punter partaking in 20 of them, makes 3 million punters.

If the UK population is 60 million, then that's 30 million men, of whom a quarter, say, are too young or too old, which makes about 22 million sexually active men. One in seven, then, is an active punter. Does that sound about right? If so, next time I turn out in a seniors cricket match, I'll be wondering who the other two are.

[adenmc4]

Interesting but I think too fuzzy For one, I think your 60k estimate for WGs is too high. If 70k sex workers is the touted figure I would think greater than 50% of that figure would be video/phone providers and not included in your calculations? Would that figure also include porn? This is just IMO of course but you started it

[Vice Admiral]

I've just done an Adult Work search for female escorts in the UK, without any limitations (on age etc.).  I got 19,590 results.

If we were able to exclude fake profiles, that would leave perhaps 19,000?

Adult Work is of course the Google / Amazon / eBay of escorting.  It has a near monopoly in terms of internet prostitution.   So girls advertising solely on Viva Street, Friday Ads, etc might at best add another couple of thousand to our total.

And then there's the grey area that is Seeking.

Finally there are girls who don't feature on the internet – girls working in brothels and massage parlours, or on the street; or who advertise only in the old-fashioned non-digital way (small ads in newspapers, telephone kiosks and shop windows).

Anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's.  But I'd be surprised if the various "non-AW" categories of escorts as much as doubled the total.

So if I were to pluck a figure out of the air, I'd maybe go for 35,000.  But others might think this too low.

[Fuzzyduck]

Thanks for the thought provoking post.

Your approach has merit e.g. you define "active punter" and "sexually active men" but (one of) the main issue(s) is the lack of reliable datapoints. As you and others point out, you don't really know what the 70k sex worker figure is but, more critically, just how many active workers offer sex. You can make a lot of assumptions about that and then more assumptions about how much they work and how often men punt. The only thing I'd say here is to use ranges so you have high and low scenarios.

On the demand side, and purely on gut feel, 3 million punters just seems too high. Not that it impacts your calculation but you assume all men who aren't too old or too young are sexually active. I'm sure there are data out there on this.

[Bigwilts]

With the wide ranging definition of sex workers including porn etc, how many wankers in the UK?

[Doc Holliday]

The circa 70k figure for sex workers is a government estimate based on a survey I think around 2016/17? It is an estimate.

If you approach this from another angle ..there are I think (from memory) around 23 million males in the UK over 18?

Various studies have claimed that one in ten men have paid for sex at some point. This would therefore approximate to between 2 to 3 million males who have at some point paid for it?


EDIT just to add this is all based on estimates as there is no reliable, accurate data to call upon.

[threechilliman]

The circa 70k figure for sex workers is a government estimate based on a survey I think around 2016/17? It is an estimate.

If you approach this from another angle ..there are I think (from memory) around 23 million males in the UK over 18?

Various studies have claimed that one in ten men have paid for sex at some point. This would therefore approximate to between 2 to 3 million males who have at some point paid for it?


EDIT just to add this is all based on estimates as there is no reliable, accurate data to call upon.

I'm surprised the ONS don't do a quarterly survey....

[jesse4585]

If you dislike trivial, inconsequential posts...

I've read a number of times recently that there are an estimated 70,000 sex workers in the UK. ...
....makes 3 million punters.

Nothing trivial about it Charlie,  this is one of the most interesting topics in the world, IMO. 

Like the Doc says,  the 70k estimate comes from a 2016/17  government report.
Said report estimates  2.3  million UK punters.   (defining a punter as someone who  has paid for sex at least once - there's not that many regular punters)

I would say your 3 million estimate is closer to the current reality  - excellent analyses sir. 


To clarify on the government report,  the 70k estimate is not for sex workers in the broad sense.  Just for regular whores  - AW, viva, other "indy" /classified advertising web sites & print publications,  agencies,  brothels & street walkers.  It does not include sugar babes, porn actresses , glamour models, cam girls & other e-whores.

If you included all the above, and said that  to count in the figures the woman has to have received money at least once,  then the number would likely be over a million.

In the broad sense of sex work,  my understanding is that close to 20% of lasses aged 20-25 have been involved at least briefly,  at least in some parts of the country. Sex work options are now widely discussed at many UK universities.

Going back to the number of the punters,  in some ways it's surprising that there aren't more.   In recent years there's been a huge expansion in the number of men going a year or more without sex. Some of the best data is for the USA & Japan,  where there are tens of millions of young men in that boat.

(In Japan, about 43% of 18 - 34 year olds are still virgins, according to 2015 government data.   The most concerning thing from the US figures is the pace of change.  In 2018,  it was 28% of 18-30 year old men who had not had sex in the last year.  Back in 2008,  it was only 10%)

While the data is less exact, the same thing seems to be happening across Asia, Latin America, Europe, middle east, Canada & UK.

An interesting question is why doesn't there seem to be a correspondingly increase in punting?

Apart from all the obvious answers like porn, lack of cash & supply side issues,   one of the reasons seems to be that a much deeper need for all those lonely men is not sex itself but validation and long term company, which they sense they wouldn't get from whores.   I think that's not a good way to look at it. For some, losing your virginity and getting some experience with WGs can massively help your confidence with woman, leading to long term relationships with civvies,  what you'd otherwise be too shy to get into.  Thanks heavens for WGs, God knows what would happen to society without them.

That said,  I guess the fact many don't turn to punting might be a good thing overall,  there just aren't enough natural whores to meet all the demand & it would lead to more trafficking.  Long term solution will probably include sex robots.


References

The 2016/17 government report
External Link/Members Only

Men without sex in USA:
External Link/Members Only

Japanese virgins
External Link/Members Only


PS - I know several here think my estimates of the numbers are too large. I hope they are right.  Not going to get into any long analytical discussions as it's too much like work, and some of my data sources aren't public.   But hope this might be of interest to some...

[Students Notebook]

I've just done an Adult Work search for female escorts in the UK, without any limitations (on age etc.).  I got 19,590 results.

If we were able to exclude fake profiles, that would leave perhaps 19,000?

Adult Work is of course the Google / Amazon / eBay of escorting.  It has a near monopoly in terms of internet prostitution.   So girls advertising solely on Viva Street, Friday Ads, etc might at best add another couple of thousand to our total.

And then there's the grey area that is Seeking.

Finally there are girls who don't feature on the internet – girls working in brothels and massage parlours, or on the street; or who advertise only in the old-fashioned non-digital way (small ads in newspapers, telephone kiosks and shop windows).

Anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's.  But I'd be surprised if the various "non-AW" categories of escorts as much as doubled the total.

So if I were to pluck a figure out of the air, I'd maybe go for 35,000.  But others might think this too low.

This reminds me of a game we played at prep school.
Which went something like this
If the  population was 50 million and half the population had sex once a week, that would mean 25 million people divided by 7 = 3571,428 people were at it
on any given night during that week.

Then assuming that the average length of a cock was 6 inches, that would mean that XXX miles of cock were going in and out that night.

I need help here, otherwise I'm going to have to ask my accountant and he's v dull.  Please someone work it out for me.

[Fuzzyduck]

Nothing trivial about it Charlie,  this is one of the most interesting topics in the world, IMO. 
...

Great summary. Thanks for taking the time to pull it together.

[houseboot]

External Link/Members Only

2009     100,000

2015       72,800

the latter being the figure most often quoted.

They are guesses .... nobody knows .... nobody could possibly know.

Number of punters?  Again it's guess .... just like the frequent posts here asking/stating, "How much does a prostitute earn?"

The 72,800 was quoted in the Government enquiry into prostitution (chaired by the infamous Keith Vaz)

They commissioned further research into the subject which was undertaken, IIRC, by Bristol University.

Their research was based on such small samples that their conclusions cannot be taken too seriously.

[jesse4585]

Great summary. Thanks for taking the time to pull it together.

Cheers Fuzzy, glad I'm not the only one on here who finds these trends interesting.

[WelshClipper]

I also think this thread has considerable validity.

I particularly liked how the OP arrived at how many punts a year the average punter completes.

The most I have punted in a year is about 26 and the least was about 14. So 20 per year pretty much states my punting statistic. 

 

[Mr Garmin]

So if the estimate of 60 million punts a year is correct, at an average of £100 per go, that makes £6 billion a year. It seems that punting is pretty important for the national economy (except that it's probably mostly an export business)

[GingerNuts]

So if the estimate of 60 million punts a year is correct, at an average of £100 per go, that makes £6 billion a year. It seems that punting is pretty important for the national economy (except that it's probably mostly an export business)

And £36 billion in six years to which you've contributed £80.

[Fuzzyduck]

And £36 billion in six years to which you've contributed £80.

 

[antsz]

I havent met anyone that openly admits to punting , family ,friends or work colleagues but have plenty of friends that go to Amsterdam or elsewhere abroad and openly brag about it , I was once working near a GFE place in Manchester and the amount of people that use to go there was amazing

[WASA38]

If you dislike trivial, inconsequential posts, by the way, give this a miss. It's just idle curiosity, really.

 - - - If the UK population is 60 million, then that's 30 million men, of whom a quarter, say, are too young or too old, which makes about 22 million sexually active men. _ _ _.

Do you mind ! I believe we have at least one nonagenarian on here .

Tongue in cheek. (That's all at tne moment, regrettably).

[Steely Dan]

on average they see 20 customers a week,

While I think the numbers broadly right, I think they are a tad too high for number of punts.  Because while the AW and parlour girls that we interact with the most might do do 50 punts per week, I think there are many more of the 60,000 that only do it every now and again. As I have changed by style and what I am looking for, I have come across many more once-or-twice-a-week'ers than I thought.  So I'd say a weighted average of 10 per week closer.  But that is just a guess from my own recent experience.

I think there might be 3 million punters, but again, I think because the weighting is not quite right.  I bet loads do it once or twice a year only.

So I agree with you estimate on number of punters. But fewer punts. (Though to be fair, TPC alone might change this!)

But active punters? Men who might call themselves punters?  I bet it is more like 500k.  Most of these 3,000,000 guys, just do it every now and again, and try to forget it or whatever.

[Gordon Bennett]

Doesn't make sense given separate surveys say we're all at church or fishing or exercising or volunteering or recycling or reading etc etc. Maybe if there were 50hrs per day and UK population was 1 billion all these separate surveys would stack up?

[dubhcarr]

Ive always thought OP that on a regular day circa 300k punters are looking for a shag/massage wi an escort.......this is a billion pound industry....

[houseboot]

As I have changed by style and what I am looking for, I have come across many more once-or-twice-a-week'ers than I thought.

How do you know?

How does any one know whether the lady sees one punter a year, one a month, one a week, one a day or one every hour?

[Home Alone]

See what you've started here, Charlie?!!😉🤔😂

It's a really good topic, and I suspect it'll be one that runs and runs!

[Itsnotshy]

Imagine if all the punters in the country swore to vote against any MP or party who introduced a sex buyer law.
Quite a voting block.

[The Outsider]

This is easily solved.  Everyone here who is a punter, raise your right hand... 

[xyfek]

I think 20 punters per WG is probably a decent guesstimate. Should be enough to make a sustainable business, but of course there will be a lot of variation in there, as the best girls get a lot more custom than the average, and so do the cheap ones.

Anecdotally, there's about 20 times more online visitors here on UKP than on SAAFE, which is as close as we'll get of any solid evidence.

Believing the government's numbers of 70,000 WGs, that would give some 1,400,000 regular punters.

[WelshClipper]

Also there must be plenty of dusty phone times.

January blahs, kids out of school, festivities etc tieing up punter funds.

So the inconsistency over a 12 month period must be enormous. 

[Malvolio]

So what proportion of the sex workers in the UK are blokes?

[jesse4585]

So what proportion of the sex workers in the UK are blokes?

The 2016 gov report has an estimate that 17% are blokes,  and 2% trans.  The BBC published an estimate that 20% may be blokes.

Only about 2% of the population are Gay or Bisexual.  I understand female punters have became much more common this past two decades...

[Steely Dan]

The 2016 gov report has an estimate that 17% are blokes,  and 2% trans.  The BBC published an estimate that 20% may be blokes.

Only about 2% of the population are Gay or Bisexual.  I understand female punters have became much more common this past two decades...

Wow - I used to believe the old 10% number.  But here is the source of the 2% number:
External Link/Members Only

If you don't believe surveys, 2.8% of marriages were same sex.  A bit higher, but this may include a backlog.  Not sure why 2016 is latest data.
External Link/Members Only
Marriages of same-sex couples have only been possible since 29 March 2014 so consequently, 2016 represents the second full year of data.

[Ali Katt]

It depends on the definition. Is someone who punts once on a lads holiday to the rld in Amsterdam a punter? What about the man who has a drunken BJ off a street walker when he's 20? Or the married man who pays for webcam girls, but can't muster the courage to see one in person?Or the man who sees a stripper on his birthday and is offered sex afterwards? All punters by definition, but not the same as someone who is at it a few times a year or someone who has retired, but has been prolific in the past.