sweden's prostitution solution

[bod666]

External Link/Members Only

Someone posted this on facebook (allegedly the scots are contemplating following them). Now i have no idea whether anything in this article is true but it was kind of interesting (in a men hating way).

It was the assertion that a man paying for sex with a woman was some form of violence against women that upset me. I can't get my head round that at all. I thought it was an activity that occurs between consenting adults? The woman can decide not to see me, or not to have sex with me.

I may be confusing prostitution and seeing an escort?  I (naively?) assumed that 99% of escorts worked cuz they wanted to and realise they can make more cash in hand money escorting than doing anything else. And fair play to them.

I am 100% against any woman being trafficked or working in this industry against their will.

The swedish model does seem to be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut though.

I suppose if similar measures were introduced in the uk it wouldn't make much difference to escorting as i am paying for the girl's time and what happens in that time is between consenting adults?

[Punting Valley]

It is a failure in those countries, the whole thing just went underground. The nordic model is already being enforced in Northern Ireland I think. As for the UK, there was also a proposed amendment (incriminating punters) to the Modern Slavery Bill not too long ago that got shot down, so I don't think it is happening any soon unless Labour wins a majority in the upcoming election.

[cueball]

Just read that, what a load of bollox, where do they get "violence and cohersion" from, jeez, you read the girls "like" list, you pays your money and hey presto.

There's no violence and no cohersion. Makes me wonder what the real truth is, driving it underground is never a good thing, sounds more like some self patting do gooder thinking they've done everybody a favour but really they will make matters worse

[Autopunter]

The irony is we already have laws against things like violence against women and rape. But that doesn't solve the problem of prohibitionist killjoys.

[socks]

I fucking hate this shit. This logic if applied everywhere would have us not use roads because some cunts drive in untaxed cars, too fast, without insurance, dangerously and kill people, despite the vast majority of us being perfectly decent and respectful road users.

Or would criminalise the consumption of alcohol because some fuckwits ruin their health and lives and that of their families over it despite the vast majority of us being perfectly responsible consumers who are wholly capable of managing our alcohol consumption.
Or would see electric blankets and deep fat fryers taken off the shelves because they sometimes cause house fires
Or would prohibit the use of elastic bands because you could have someone's eye out
Or would throw us out of work because some employers treat their employees shabbily
Or would prevent any of us going shopping because some people shoplift
Or would ban adults going into parks because some freaks have an unhealthy interest in children
Or would take mars bars off the shelves because they contribute to obesity
E T and fucking C

Yes of course weed out the trafficked and the enslaved and the robbing prossies/pimps and the violent, abusive and non paying punters but leave the rest of us alone to do what the fuck we want. You cunts.

[Blackpool Rock]

All of the apparent conclusions in the article are counter intuitive, logic and history tend to suggest that you don't stop things happening you simply drive them underground which is when the bad shit really happens?
The American alcohol prohibition is well regarded as leading to the rise in the mafia as there was still demand but limited supply hence money to be made and somebody will always fill the gap.
Hard drugs such as Opium were legal in this country only about 100 years ago and you could buy special "kits" to send to your loved one on the front line, while drugs are now illegal it hasn't stopped people buying / selling / using it just means the quality isn't regulated and you deal with a pusher rather than a chemist etc

The basic premise in the article is that there is actually a problem that needs to be solved and that any and every act of a man paying for sex is a violent act against women, what a load of shit.

If organised crime etc increased in other countries when prostitution was legalised then surely that is a failure of the authorities to stop it, presumably they simply took their foot off the pedal and decided to do not much about anything and turn a blind eye or weren't given the resource to police things properly. 

By all means help girls stay safe (and punters for that matter), ensure girls have access to screening and can discuss issues / get help if they want out, crack down on trafficking; forced girls; pimps; under age girls etc but don't assume all punters are effectively women hating rapists.
I'm sure some psychologist could argue that we punters are in fact victims ourselves so perhaps it's the girls that are exploiting us and us that needs the support!
 
   

[Markus]

Punting saves a lot of marriages in my eyes.

If it goes underground you would need to pick up women off the street. Where's the real chance of violence here, in the back seat of some psychos car or in your own place when you have the protection of your maid.

There are a load of fucked up rules and regulations in society but for the most part, it seems to satisfying a need in the right way. At least we have sites like this & AW to warn each other of bareback skanks, imagine the risks without it.

[JamesKW]

As it says in the article prostitution is criminalised across the board in the USA but this policy has completely failed there.Even in this country most people probably think it is already illegal.

[JamesKW]

Another thing is that the Swedish Government put up a lot of funds to tackle the problem and will probably have to continue to do so,I don't think the general population will be that happy if the few funds we have are being taken away from education,health and defence to deal with a prostitution problem.

[Sedlmayer]

One simple fact that people here who want to copy the Swedish Model in the UK as a whole have conveniently forgotten is that Sweden is a very different society than Britain. Even if only in terms of population numbers there is just no comparison.

There are probably more prostitutes in Milton Keynes than in the whole of Sweden.

Also, it's very much easier to get permission to tap people's phones in Sweden than here.
Do UK citizens really want phone tapping to become a routine low-level police procedure, introduced via the back door in this way?

[a10]

So if it's legalised and regulated that increases the criminal activity? Sounds counterintuitive to me. Also, as the poster from Finland points out in the comments, the figures for the women trafficked for sex work seem abnormally high, which makes the rest seem less credible.

[smiths]

External Link/Members Only

Someone posted this on facebook (allegedly the scots are contemplating following them). Now i have no idea whether anything in this article is true but it was kind of interesting (in a men hating way).

It was the assertion that a man paying for sex with a woman was some form of violence against women that upset me. I can't get my head round that at all. I thought it was an activity that occurs between consenting adults? The woman can decide not to see me, or not to have sex with me.

I may be confusing prostitution and seeing an escort?  I (naively?) assumed that 99% of escorts worked cuz they wanted to and realise they can make more cash in hand money escorting than doing anything else. And fair play to them.

I am 100% against any woman being trafficked or working in this industry against their will.

The swedish model does seem to be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut though.

I suppose if similar measures were introduced in the uk it wouldn't make much difference to escorting as i am paying for the girl's time and what happens in that time is between consenting adults?

Those that make such assertions are often femi-nazis like Harriet Harridan and Julie Bindel and their ilk. They are on a crusade to criminalize ALL punters here and actual facts are of no interest to them as Harridan showed when to get her coercion law through in 2009/10 she used a totally unproven figure of 4000 trafficked for sex women. Operations Pentameter 1 and 2 found about 10% of that and VERY few people were prosecuted as a result. So the actual facts have NEVER proved coercion/force is a big problem here.

IF Labour with Harridan in a position to win with a majority in May i have no doubt she will intensify her crusade to criminalize ALL punters. She wanted to do so in 2009 but ran out of time before the election so had to settle for her coercion law.

Those that do traffic women should get mandatory life sentences, they are evil scum that should be in prison.

[Aspen]

One simple fact that people here who want to copy the Swedish Model in the UK as a whole have conveniently forgotten is that Sweden is a very different society than Britain. Even if only in terms of population numbers there is just no comparison.

There are probably more prostitutes in Milton Keynes than in the whole of Sweden.

Also, it's very much easier to get permission to tap people's phones in Sweden than here.
Do UK citizens really want phone tapping to become a routine low-level police procedure, introduced via the back door in this way?

I don't think Sweden is much different to here. Try living in somewhere like Japan, China or Brazil - that's different.

I can't see how these laws are any different in principle to giving drug dealers immunity from prosecution and then going after the addicts who buy from them. Ludicrous.

The real issue is what harm does it do to anyone? Coercion in this context is violence and slavery, and that's well taken care of by existing laws. The agenda come from the moralists that think they are entitled to control what everyone else does.

Phone tapping goes on here a lot more than you imagine, permission or not.

[Sedlmayer]

I don't think Sweden is much different to here. Try living in somewhere like Japan, China or Brazil - that's different.

I can't see how these laws are any different in principle to giving drug dealers immunity from prosecution and then going after the addicts who buy from them. Ludicrous.

The real issue is what harm does it do to anyone? Coercion in this context is violence and slavery, and that's well taken care of by existing laws. The agenda come from the moralists that think they are entitled to control what everyone else does.

Phone tapping goes on here a lot more than you imagine, permission or not.

Got any evidence for that?

[Aspen]

Got any evidence for that?

Not that I'm going to pass on to you.

[Sedlmayer]

Not that I'm going to pass on to you.

Fuck me - are you related to Wank8 ?
I'll take your answer to read, "No, I haven't any evidence at all" 

[Aspen]

Fuck me - are you related to Wank8 ?
I'll take your answer to read, "No, I haven't any evidence at all" 

You can take what you like matey. I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it were true, and my sources and experience aren't for me to parade to the likes of you.

There's no call for your aggressive effin' attitude.

You don't agree with it, say so (if you really must) and then move on. Keyboard warriors are a waste of space.

[Curious6705]

You can take what you like matey. I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it were true, and my sources and experience aren't for me to parade to the likes of you.

There's no call for your aggressive effin' attitude.

You don't agree with it, say so (if you really must) and then move on. Keyboard warriors are a waste of space.

Another day, another confrontation by Aspen - international man of mystery and instant expert on any subject you care to mention. 

[Sedlmayer]

Another day, another confrontation by Aspen - international man of mystery and instant expert on any subject you care to mention. 

[/color]

With no evidence at all to back it up. And who gets shirty when challenged.....ho hum

[Aspen]

Another day, another confrontation with Aspen - international man of mystery and instant expert on any subject you care to mention. 

I didn't start it.

You and Sedlmayer are keyboard warriors/bullies with nothing better to do. (Waste of space)³

[Curious6705]

I didn't start it.

You and Sedlmayer are keyboard warriors/bullies with nothing better to do. (Waste of space)³

So how many keyboard warriors / bullies is that you've confronted on here by now? Must be adding up to quite a number. 

He merely pointed out you appear to be posting made up bollocks - as per usual. 

[mf_1101]

I didn't start it.

You and Sedlmayer are keyboard warriors/bullies with nothing better to do. (Waste of space)³

He asked you to provide evidence to statement that the rozzers (or someone else?) are tapping our phones, you refused to do this and called him a keyboard warrior. I'm sorry but if you want to make scaremongering statements, put some evidence up because I would want to know if someone is potentially monitoring my communications when I want to book a WG.

[Aspen]

He asked you to provide evidence to statement that the rozzers (or someone else?) are tapping our phones, you refused to do this and called him a keyboard warrior. I'm sorry but if you want to make scaremongering statements, put some evidence up because I would want to know if someone is potentially monitoring my communications when I want to book a WG.

I don't think this is the forum on which to present contentious material about issues like phone tapping. It's supposed to be a forum about sex workers, and I don't think the forum owner would welcome such off-topic material and the wider attention it would create. Not only that, but it's probably against the board rules anyway. If you've got so much time on your hands why don't you go and have a read.

I simply pointed out that phone tapping goes on a lot more than most people (specifically sedlmayer) imagine, and to my knowledge is a fact. I'm guessing that he didn't like it that I disagreed with his assertion that Sweden is such a different society to the UK, so he thought he'd pick an argument with me about something else to indulge in a bit of point scoring. Or as we used to call it - a pissing contest.

I only read and write on here for an exchange of views. I'm not interested in stupid retards who just come on here to have a battle of words about stuff that's not even relevant because they have nothing better to do. And I'm only writing this for the benefit of those that have similar reasons for being here. What you think about it is inconsequential.