Sycamore Gap tree Northumberland

[daviemac]

Statement from the Nation Trust, it appears it was planted by a previous landowner in the 1800's

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[PepeMAGA]

A "full sized Bronze Replica"

FFS - what and put it in Central London so more people can see it ! 

I think they should do everything they can to make the existing stump regrow, it will never be the same but, in 100 years time, it'll (hopefully) be a new, unique landmark.
its just unfortunate that the idiot that did it will be immortalised by the new tree.

[mr.bluesky]

So clearly MissWolf....your day-job is "tree-surgeon"! 

If ever I need a tree chopping down in my garden I know who to get in touch with. MissWolf the tree expert 

[webpunter]

released on bail

And a 60 year old has been arrested
Someone or some people will know whats happened
A reward for assistance leading to a prosecution will get them thinking
See what progress the rozzers make
Hopefully the CPS will be able to secure a prosecution
Whichever person / people did it need some time behind bars to reflect on what cunts they are
They should also be sued to recover costs, police time, the various public bodies involved & for restoration expenses
Along with punitive damages to discourage others from even thinking about doing the same
Get an idea of what the person / persons are worth & set the total above this such that they are bankrupted
Including the disposal of any assets which they have including property
Such that when they get released they have fuck all [& cant claim any benefits]
No doubt the wokey brigade will have issue with this approach, face bothered
People need to realise that there are severe consequences for their cuntish actions

[webpunter]

If ever I need a tree chopping down in my garden I know who to get in touch with. MissWolf the tree expert 

& UKP's in-house chopper expert   

[daviemac]

They were interviewing the owner of the Twice Brewed brewery and pub on the news and he voiced his concern on the tourist trade as there won't be the numbers coming to see a tree that isn't there and he might have to rebrand one of his beers that's named after the tree.

The pub's situated near to Once Brewed BTW.

[scutty brown]

You pay your money you take your chance 

We have 5 saws in our workshop, 4 Husqvarna, a 345, a 357xp, 2 x 550xp and a Stihl MS881 with a 36"bar (I'm not qualified for the big one  )

When I were a lad.......Husqvarna meant one thing: performance scramble bikes imported by "Badger" Goss. 2-stroke competition engines before the Japanese caught on.........
I never did manage to work out if the bikes had chainsaw engines or the chainsaws had bike engines

[FLYING BLUE]

They were interviewing the owner of the Twice Brewed brewery and pub on the news and he voiced his concern on the tourist trade as there won't be the numbers coming to see a tree that isn't there and he might have to rebrand one of his beers that's named after the tree.

The pub's situated near to Once Brewed BTW.

I've been there several times although I find the beer to be kinda average at best. Beautiful place to sit outside, at the back, on a warm summers evening.

[MissWolf]

I believe they have recovered a chainsaw from the property of the man they arrested and are forensically examining it for evidence.

[Blackpool Rock]

I believe they have recovered a chainsaw from the property of the man they arrested and are forensically examining it for evidence.

The police are fucking useless these days, surely you only have to look at it to tell it's a chainsaw   

[mr.bluesky]

The police are fucking useless these days, surely you only have to look at it to tell it's a chainsaw   

The police are probably looking for a gang of beavers 🦫  with a guilty look on their faces 

[Doc Holliday]

I believe they have recovered a chainsaw from the property of the man woman they arrested and are forensically examining it for evidence.

Fixed that for you 

[scutty brown]

The police are probably looking for a gang of beavers 🦫  with a guilty look on their faces 

I didn't think Miss Wolf had a beaver?

[MissWolf]

Fixed that for you 

Shhhhh  you bad man you pinky promised me you wouldn't tell 

[MissWolf]

I didn't think Miss Wolf had a beaver?

 

[scutty brown]

Look at the upside
Now the tree has been coppiced I know where to go in a few years if I want to make some walking sticks.
Sycamore is nice and lightweight and easy to train to grow into a curved handle

[mr.bluesky]

It has now been reported that Hadrians wall also sustained some damage when this tree was cut down which is not surprising 

[timsussex]

A week later and the National Trust is still 'considering how to make the site safe' and asking people to stay away.

Why does something like this take so long in this country ?

[PepeMAGA]

A week later and the National Trust is still 'considering how to make the site safe' and asking people to stay away.

Why does something like this take so long in this country ?

Probably trying to keep people away til the interest dies down

[timsussex]

Probably trying to keep people away til the interest dies down

Quite possible; talk about making a problem out of an opportunity

[Marmalade]

The thing apparently is that the tree was not just a tree.

It was identifying as something else.

[MissWolf]

A week later and the National Trust is still 'considering how to make the site safe' and asking people to stay away.

Why does something like this take so long in this country ?

Because making the site safe is not as simple on a scheduled ancient monument that is so well visited and remote

They can't just rebuild the damage to the wall without the right surveys and permissions

They can't just go in with saws and chop up the fallen section, because as you cut it moves and rolls and you have to remove the timber and all the brash, that's people, machines and that has the possibility of further damage.

[timsussex]

Because making the site safe is not as simple on a scheduled ancient monument that is so well visited and remote

They can't just rebuild the damage to the wall without the right surveys and permissions

They can't just go in with saws and chop up the fallen section, because as you cut it moves and rolls and you have to remove the timber and all the brash, that's people, machines and that has the possibility of further damage.

So there is a lot of paperwork because its England

Yes I appreciate it will need a professional (or 3,45....) to carefully chop the tree presumably starting at the crown. 3 days 4 5 6.... I dont know but a week later they still havent started doing what we all know has to be done so get on with it
No problems with many visitors - theres an exclusion zone

Other countries do it so much better look at how long it took to reopen the Lake Pontchartrain bridge after Hurricane Katrina when 17 sections were blown away and give me a example of anything done that quickly in the UK $30 million project decided in 10 days and carried out in 40 days with all of the desolation of the hurricane around

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[daviemac]

So there is a lot of paperwork because its England

Yes I appreciate it will need a professional (or 3,45....) to carefully chop the tree presumably starting at the crown. 3 days 4 5 6.... I dont know but a week later they still havent started doing what we all know has to be done so get on with it
No problems with many visitors - theres an exclusion zone

Other countries do it so much better look at how long it took to reopen the Lake Pontchartrain bridge after Hurricane Katrina when 17 sections were blown away and give me a example of anything done that quickly in the UK $30 million project decided in 10 days and carried out in 40 days with all of the desolation of the hurricane around

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Didn't realise that the bridge, opened in the 21st century, was a world heritage site like the Roman Wall?    Bit of a difference between the two if it isn't.

[scutty brown]

What's the hurry?
Any replacement tree is going to take close on 100 years to get to size, especially on that exposed site. A few weeks of waiting and planning isn't going to matter in the long term.
As for the tree, they won't want to cut it up before they decide what they want to use the timber for. It's not much use for structural work, but it's ideal for decorative carvings. The NT may have a good use for it in repairing some of their properties, but they'll need to know what size planks they need before they cut it.

[timsussex]

So what do we do with the tree
1) glue it back together
2) chop it up and remove it
are there any other options ?  Not too difficult a decision then

Assuming NT doesnt have in-house professionals then it will have to go out to tender - there cant be that many local professionals that could do the job so get them to quote. Choose one and get it done

Reopen the site next week and get a few thousand visitors to see the stump or drag it out for 6 months so everyone forgets about it

Why should it take months to do what everyone knows will have to be done ? or does anyone think we could glue it back together?

Sure it might be a difficult decision to replant - or what size to replant, what needs to be done to the stump etc
 
Not surprisingly damage was probably done to the wall - except the specialists cant get in there while the tree is in its present state. I suspect that if there is damage they would like to repair it ASAP and people to do it are presumably a lot rarer than professionals to chop a tree up.

[Jonestown]

Now another mysterious sycamore felling incident, a tree dating back to the Battle of Hastings has been uprooted in Battle, Sussex:-

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[daviemac]

So what do we do with the tree
1) glue it back together
2) chop it up and remove it
are there any other options ?  Not too difficult a decision then

Assuming NT doesnt have in-house professionals then it will have to go out to tender - there cant be that many local professionals that could do the job so get them to quote. Choose one and get it done

Reopen the site next week and get a few thousand visitors to see the stump or drag it out for 6 months so everyone forgets about it

Why should it take months to do what everyone knows will have to be done ? or does anyone think we could glue it back together?

Sure it might be a difficult decision to replant - or what size to replant, what needs to be done to the stump etc
 
Not surprisingly damage was probably done to the wall - except the specialists cant get in there while the tree is in its present state. I suspect that if there is damage they would like to repair it ASAP and people to do it are presumably a lot rarer than professionals to chop a tree up.

The wall is 1895 years old and the tree is resting on it, there are a lot of agencies involved and they have to be sure it's all done correctly. It is not doing any harm as it is and the situation is not going to get any worse so why rush it?

Why are you so concerned about the experts taking their time, even when the tree is removed there's nothing more for the public to see, the only difference would be they could touch the stump.

[timsussex]

The wall is 1895 years old and the tree is resting on it, there are a lot of agencies involved and they have to be sure it's all done correctly. It is not doing any harm as it is and the situation is not going to get any worse so why rush it?

Why are you so concerned about the experts taking their time, even when the tree is removed there's nothing more for the public to see, the only difference would be they could touch the stump.

The site is 'unsafe' presumably because the tree might move esp if there are any strong winds.
presumably likely to cause further damage to the wall.

But thats not my point
I'm not concerned with getting expert opinion I'm concerned about how long it will take to come to the obvious conclusion the tree will have to be cut up. Yet that decision apparently hasnt been taken and then we will need to get quotes and then permissions and .....

for those who arent NT members there is currently an internal row concerning Clandon Park which was destroyed by fire in 2015  It has finally been decided by the NT executive not to restore the house but to 'manage the ruin' - even though it was insured. Now I dont know if thats the correct decision but it has taken 8 years !

[Jonestown]

An interesting take on this issue, the stop and roots will regrow quickly, it has another 400 years of life in it, it will still be going strong when the Kant who cut is down is dust in the wind.

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[daviemac]

The site is 'unsafe' presumably because the tree might move esp if there are any strong winds.
presumably likely to cause further damage to the wall.

But thats not my point
I'm not concerned with getting expert opinion I'm concerned about how long it will take to come to the obvious conclusion the tree will have to be cut up. Yet that decision apparently hasnt been taken and then we will need to get quotes and then permissions and .....

for those who arent NT members there is currently an internal row concerning Clandon Park which was destroyed by fire in 2015  It has finally been decided by the NT executive not to restore the house but to 'manage the ruin' - even though it was insured. Now I dont know if thats the correct decision but it has taken 8 years !

Yet again it doesn't matter if it takes a year to sort out, they aren't rebuilding a bridge that is a vital route for traffic or doing anything with an upright building. They don't want anyone near it for health and safety reasons, I can't see that tree moving from where it is until it's cut up, it would take some wind to move something that size that's lying on the ground but just to be on the safe side they have an exclusion zone.

Have you ever been? it's miles from the road, in the middle of nowhere, there's a designated walking route that goes near but the size of the exclusion zone make no difference to what you can see.

It just isn't interfering with anything, they could wait until next summer and it wouldn't matter.

To be honest it could stay there until it rotted and it would make no difference to anything.

[scutty brown]

And sycamore does rot quickly
Leave it for ten years and most of it will have gone. If they don't have a use for the timber it might be the easiest thing to do

[timsussex]

And sycamore does rot quickly
Leave it for ten years and most of it will have gone. If they don't have a use for the timber it might be the easiest thing to do

Indeed by the time the NT makes its mind up it will probably not be much use

Historic England said experts visited the site on Friday and it "identified that Hadrian's Wall has sustained some damage"

A spokesman said: "We have not yet been able to access the site to carry out a full investigation so a further archaeological appraisal will take place once the site is considered safe."

So this is one of our most important historic sights and it takes more than a week to visit the site and see the obvious ! and who knows how long before a proper examination

[scutty brown]

The damage isn't going to get any worse. The stones aren't going to vanish. But if any masonry is damaged it's going to take some time finding out how to reproduce the recipe of the Roman cement used. It's probably not just simple lime mortar. And that assumes you can find a mason who is skilled in Roman building techniques

[Jonestown]

The damage isn't going to get any worse. The stones aren't going to vanish. But if any masonry is damaged it's going to take some time finding out how to reproduce the recipe of the Roman cement used. It's probably not just simple lime mortar. And that assumes you can find a mason who is skilled in Roman building techniques

Its hard to believe that the wall hasn't been repaired at some point or other in the last 1895 years, so there must surely be some experience to draw on.

[mr.bluesky]

Now another mysterious sycamore felling incident, a tree dating back to the Battle of Hastings has been uprooted in Battle, Sussex:-

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I was in that area on holiday a few weeks ago, honestly guv it wasn't me 

[mr.bluesky]

The damage isn't going to get any worse. The stones aren't going to vanish. But if any masonry is damaged it's going to take some time finding out how to reproduce the recipe of the Roman cement used. It's probably not just simple lime mortar. And that assumes you can find a mason who is skilled in Roman building techniques

I want to know when are the Romans coming back to finish the job off . What good is a 3 foot high wall, those pesky jock hords will just climb over it. No use to anyone
 

[DastardlyDick]

The thing apparently is that the tree was not just a tree.

It was identifying as something else.

A shrubbery maybe?

[timsussex]

Interesting article in todays Times -and possibly other non paywall sites

The idea is that every(?) chainsaw has a unique oil signature and traces of the oil - which is used fairly liberally to lubricate the chain should be detectable on the stump.

Each brand of chainsaw oil is different so if for example you currently use Stihl oil but once 5 or 6 fillings ago you ran short and used OREGON then the mix in the tank would be unique.
The other point made (and I'm sure Miss Wolf will shudder) is that most of the farmers just use any old engine oil.

Now the cynic in me wonders how much of the above is true and how much it is being put out to frighten the criminals ?  I know simple GCMS could distinguish between 2 different oils but I have no doubt that several makers just rebrand the same oil.

[Marmalade]

The Economist has run an obituary.

[scutty brown]

Interesting article in todays Times -and possibly other non paywall sites

The idea is that every(?) chainsaw has a unique oil signature and traces of the oil - which is used fairly liberally to lubricate the chain should be detectable on the stump.

Each brand of chainsaw oil is different so if for example you currently use Stihl oil but once 5 or 6 fillings ago you ran short and used OREGON then the mix in the tank would be unique.
The other point made (and I'm sure Miss Wolf will shudder) is that most of the farmers just use any old engine oil.

Now the cynic in me wonders how much of the above is true and how much it is being put out to frighten the criminals ?  I know simple GCMS could distinguish between 2 different oils but I have no doubt that several makers just rebrand the same oil.

Even if you ID the oil brand, so what? There are so few brands compared with so many chainsaws that the attempt would be futile.
What may in theory be possible is to analyse the tree debris stuck to the chain by the oil. First DNA analysis, which for an old isolated tree like that should be unique, secondly quantitative NMR to identify relative ratios of chemical elements found in the locality (i.e. minerals found in soil/water and absorbed into the tree), thirdly analysis of nuclear isotopic ratios to determine age and again locality.
No idea if anyone has attempted something like this in the past but it should be theoretically possible, given enough time and research. Probably totally impractical in real life.

[RedKettle]

 

Even if you ID the oil brand, so what? There are so few brands compared with so many chainsaws that the attempt would be futile.
What may in theory be possible is to analyse the tree debris stuck to the chain by the oil. First DNA analysis, which for an old isolated tree like that should be unique, secondly quantitative NMR to identify relative ratios of chemical elements found in the locality (i.e. minerals found in soil/water and absorbed into the tree), thirdly analysis of nuclear isotopic ratios to determine age and again locality.
No idea if anyone has attempted something like this in the past but it should be theoretically possible, given enough time and research. Probably totally impractical in real life.

I think the oil point was that it could be unique because of the mix of brands and order used. I have no idea whether that is right, sounds unlikely.

[daviemac]

I think the oil point was that it could be unique because of the mix of brands and order used. I have no idea whether that is right, sounds unlikely.

If they were forensically examining the tree they would have a reason, there will be something they could possibly match up.

A few years ago several cars in my street had tyres slashed, including mine, when the police turned up to investigate they took my tyre away for forensic examination, I don't know what information they could get from the cut a knife made but there must have been something or they wouldn't have taken it.

[advent2016]

I think they should replace it with a similar, fully grown tree.

HS2 had used some massive truck tree spades I'm sure with the savings they could help out.

I think crowdfunding could raise the half  million or so to do the job, people pay up for much more trivial things.

Then protect it properly, steel trunk guard to at least 10 feet, CCTV, lighting, security patrols.





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[GreyDave]

Sycamore isn't a native British tree anyway: it's a Spanish species that will grow like weeds, and there are groups that would like to see them all cut down in Britain.
It's curious as to how it ever got there - it's miles outside normal distribution area, it's an exposed area with few other trees, and you'd expect the sheep and cattle to have got it while still a sapling. And 300 years ago it would have been a rare tree anyway, only used decoratively. Must have been deliberately planted and protected an over growth of these saplings would in time of destroyed part of the wall ( the reason the trees I saw being removed ), the question is who and why? It's telling that there are no other local sycamores growing from seeds - just shows how poor the conditions there are

Good comment Sir    I work in property refurb and several of these trees around the same size have been removed in places when ive been working on the building there are always LOADS of Saplings and the clean up is constant in many places these trees are INVASSIVE, to of kept it SINGLE would of been an ongoing task and delibrate with more effort that the cutting down of it....The post about the HS2 tree removing is good get a bigish one up there by Chinnook heilcopter if its that important ....Sorry its only a tree placed by sombody ages ago

[webpunter]

I think they should replace it with a similar, fully grown tree.

HS2 had used some massive truck tree spades I'm sure with the savings they could help out.

I think crowdfunding could raise the half  million or so to do the job, people pay up for much more trivial things.

Then protect it properly, steel trunk guard to at least 10 feet, CCTV, lighting, security patrols.





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+1
& yep gofundme generates surprising amounts for indeed more trivial things
Crowdfunding could easily surpass this

HS2 arent gonna need their machines for much longer
Tunnel boring m/c for sale, one owner etc ....
It would be some positive PR for them, for a change, to get involved

The local pub has offered a £1500 bar tab reward for info leading to an arrest
The cost in terms of time being spent oil testing etc & the police investigation is building
IMO a substantial reward could help find the funt(s) who did it more rapidly, with a saving in the long run

Sky News have benefitted from free content to fill their app & the income they derive from the [usually] wanky ads which litter their 'pages'
They could easily chuck up £25k or more [with no adverse impact on them, small change] to make the reward more meaningful
Once one corporate gets involved others may follow
How many pages have the papers filled [along with their ads] ?

& there's then a tempting amount of money to maybe make someone spill the beans
Someone / maybe more than one person will know or have a good idea bout who may be involved
The reward can be kept anonymous
Surprised its only the pub so far that has stumped up, so to write ....

[Marmalade]

All this fuss over a tree.
You’d think Princess Diana had come back to life and died again.
Maybe we should have a National day of mourning to keep all the tree-huggers happy and let the rest of us just get the fuck over it?

Not condoning vandalism,  but looking at it another way you could say that on a nice day it was blocking the view …

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[daviemac]

All this fuss over a tree.
You’d think Princess Diana had come back to life and died again.
Maybe we should have a National day of mourning to keep all the tree-huggers happy and let the rest of us just get the fuck over it?

Not condoning vandalism,  but looking at it another way you could say that on a nice day it was blocking the view …

I don't think you understand how well known the tree was, people came from all over the world to photograph it, be photographed beside it and even propose by it, it was a massive tourist attraction.

The fact it was a tree is largely irrelevant, the fact it was a landmark known throughout the world and part of a world heritage site is.

[Jonestown]

he outrage is over the wanton and senseless destruction of something that meant something to other people. Not too dissimilar to the destruction of ancient site in Afghanistan, Libya and not doubt other countries. It may even have been intended to have been an anti-green statement, but then surely someone would have come forward to claim responsibility. Were that to be the case then the obvious response would be to erect a very big wind turbine on the same spot.

[GreyDave]

The local pub has offered a £1500 bar tab reward for info leading to an arrest
The cost in terms of time being spent oil testing etc & the police investigation is building

Sky News have benefitted from free content to fill their app & the income they derive from the [usually] wanky ads which litter their 'pages'
They could easily chuck up £25k or more [with no adverse impact on them, small change] to make the reward more meaningful

Surprised its only the pub so far that has stumped up so to write ....

I betcha none of these will put cash up to replace tree although a Lad did and they took it away  ....errr   Pub has not stumped up for the stumps replacement