Human Trafficking

[scutty brown]

I don't know where you get that from. All the Romanians I have ever seen spoke Romanian. And I know this because I can speak Romanian. Pretty much the only other country they could have come from is Moldova and they have a totally different accent.

Romania is very lax in its passport issuing and hands them out to almost anyone from non-EU states in the Balkans. Population and border movements during wartime means the definition of who is Romanian (either ethnic or otherwise) is very fluid. They almost seem to equate Romania as encompassing the old Austro-Hungarian empire, and issue passports to anyone from there who lives in a non-EU state. Result is that a lot of "Romanian" girls are really Serb, Albanian, Moldovan or even Ukranian or Russian.
Of course if you ask them they're going to say whatever their Romanian passport says..........

[daviemac]

I don't know about this parlour thing. We know where the parlours are and what goes on there. You can imagine that the police do. If the girls were there against their will, why aren't there any raids?

There's regular raids in the NE, mainly targeting Asian and Romanians so don't know what makes you think there aren't. 

[scutty brown]

I don't know about this parlour thing. We know where the parlours are and what goes on there. You can imagine that the police do. If the girls were there against their will, why aren't there any raids?

Manpower resources
Other priorities
Lack of intelligence
Lack of complaints from the girls (if they are under control, they're hardly in a position to complain to the police)

but of course your basic premise is wrong........... raids DO happen, but often the news is suppressed for operational reasons

[Bristol Bloke]

Romania is very lax in its passport issuing and hands them out to almost anyone from non-EU states in the Balkans. Population and border movements during wartime means the definition of who is Romanian (either ethnic or otherwise) is very fluid. They almost seem to equate Romania as encompassing the old Austro-Hungarian empire, and issue passports to anyone from there who lives in a non-EU state. Result is that a lot of "Romanian" girls are really Serb, Albanian, Moldovan or even Ukranian or Russian.
Of course if you ask them they're going to say whatever their Romanian passport says..........

Yes I get that but I somehow doubt that they bother to teach these girls how to speak fluent Romanian with a convincing accent.

This may well sometimes happen but I somehow doubt that "most" Romanian girls are not Romanian at all.

[Bristol Bloke]

There's regular raids in the NE, mainly targeting Asian and Romanians so don't know what makes you think there aren't.

I haven't seen any in Bristol. Lots of massage parlours and they operate with impunity.

[Beamer]

I haven't seen any in Bristol. Lots of massage parlours and they operate with impunity.

Do you have proof of that?
A famous, very old well established, and an almost typically british parlour in selly oak got closed for trafficking.
I would expect it's far more widespread than we know/realise

[scutty brown]

I haven't seen any in Bristol. Lots of massage parlours and they operate with impunity.

You just never hear of the ones that are closed. There are often good operational reasons for not publishing the raids: no need to alert other members of the same gang/group

[scutty brown]

Yes I get that but I somehow doubt that they bother to teach these girls how to speak fluent Romanian with a convincing accent.

This may well sometimes happen but I somehow doubt that "most" Romanian girls are not Romanian at all.

How else do you explain that the commonest nationality of trafficked women in the UK is Albanian? How many Albanian whores do you see? They're all hidden with Romanian identities

[daviemac]

I haven't seen any in Bristol. Lots of massage parlours and they operate with impunity.

Have you thought that they might not be any trafficked / coerced girls working in them. There's loads of massage places operating in Newcastle, all they need to do is stay on the right side of the law.

[Bristol Bloke]

How else do you explain that the commonest nationality of trafficked women in the UK is Albanian? How many Albanian whores do you see? They're all hidden with Romanian identities

Like I said, I can speak Romanian. I can well believe that Albanians are smuggled in with false passports. I struggle to believe that they are given lessons in speaking Romanian. I haven't met a working girl that claimed to be Romanian that wasn't. It's usually the other way round, Romanians pretending to be Spanish or Italian.

How Albanians are smuggled in and concealed I wouldn't know.

[Bristol Bloke]

Have you thought that they might not be any trafficked / coerced girls working in them. There's loads of massage places operating in Newcastle, all they need to do is stay on the right side of the law.

It was my point that there may not be any trafficked girls there.

[Bristol Bloke]

Do you have proof of that?
A famous, very old well established, and an almost typically british parlour in selly oak got closed for trafficking.
I would expect it's far more widespread than we know/realise

Doesn't it usually make the papers? People getting charged with trafficking is hard to get a secret permanently.

[scutty brown]

Like I said, I can speak Romanian. I can well believe that Albanians are smuggled in with false passports. I struggle to believe that they are given lessons in speaking Romanian. I haven't met a working girl that claimed to be Romanian that wasn't. It's usually the other way round, Romanians pretending to be Spanish or Italian.

How Albanians are smuggled in and concealed I wouldn't know.

All I can say is the experience of others is at variance with yours.
How many Romanians have you seen?

[Bristol Bloke]

You just never hear of the ones that are closed. There are often good operational reasons for not publishing the raids: no need to alert other members of the same gang/group

I imagine that they don't publicise it at the time but when they press charges and take people to court then it's a different story.

It obviously happens but I don't think it happens as often as was suggested.

[Bristol Bloke]

All I can say is the experience of others is at variance with yours.
How many Romanians have you seen?

About a dozen I suppose.

[scutty brown]

I imagine that they don't publicise it at the time but when they press charges and take people to court then it's a different story.

It obviously happens but I don't think it happens as often as was suggested.

Too many people in this game who spout what they think as facts..........
In this case I know
Often the parlour pimps don't get to court, they get quietly repatriated to face charges in their home countries. Its common to find they're in the UK hiding from their past crimes at home

[scutty brown]

About a dozen I suppose.

Limited sample then, and I guess all in or around Bristol?

[Bristol Bloke]

Limited sample then, and I guess all in or around Bristol?

Bristol or Exeter.

But you'd think that at least one would be a fake Romanian if the assertion that most were not Romanian was true.

[daviemac]

It was my point that there may not be any trafficked girls there.

No, you said you hadn't seen any raids because they operate with impunity, which means they are not being punished for any wrongdoings, it doesn't mean there are no wrongdoings.

[scutty brown]

Bristol or Exeter.

But you'd think that at least one would be a fake Romanian if the assertion that most were not Romanian was true.

Not if you accept that different towns tend to attract girls from different pimping gangs. And however you look at it, 12 out of several thousand is a small sample

[winkywanky]

Yes I get that but I somehow doubt that they bother to teach these girls how to speak fluent Romanian with a convincing accent.

This may well sometimes happen but I somehow doubt that "most" Romanian girls are not Romanian at all.

How would you (or any other punter for that matter) know, unless you spoke Romanian?

[scutty brown]

How would you (or any other punter for that matter) know, unless you spoke Romanian?

He says he does speak Romanian

which opens up lots of other questions...............

[winkywanky]

...aha...

[winkywanky]

His posts sound too posh for him to be a Romanian pimp (unless he's 2nd gen., privately educated).

[snaitram99]

He says he does speak Romanian

which opens up lots of other questions...............

Not all Romanians in UK are pimps or prosties. I even met a Romanian doctor once!

Scutty you claim to know an awful lot. Maybe you do. Who knows 

[Jonestown]

Not all Romanians in UK are pimps or prosties. I even met a Romanian doctor once!

Scutty you claim to know an awful lot. Maybe you do. Who knows 

I'm confident one day we will hear that a Mr S Brown has been busted for impersonating an official or authorised person going about there proper business.

[Hotdogboy88]

Not all Romanians in UK are pimps or prosties. I even met a Romanian doctor once!

Scutty you claim to know an awful lot. Maybe you do. Who knows 

Haha. Is he still spouting that he knows more about everything than everyone then sulks and cries when he called out to prove his ridiculous claims, which he never does? 

[Hotdogboy88]

I'm confident one day we will hear that a Mr S Brown has been busted for impersonating an official or authorised person going about there proper business.

  fantasist busted  at his own sting. 

[scutty brown]

fantasist busted  at his own sting. 

WTF are you on about?
Or are you just spreading more shit about?

[maxxblue]

fantasist busted  at his own sting. 

I think most people know he's a bit of a Walter.

[Hotdogboy88]

I think most people know he's a bit of a Walter.

  well put.
I had to put him on ignore only so much BS I can read.

[Jonestown]

There is a meaningful and worthwhile discussion to be had around these issues taking into account what the police, courts and immigration are doing, but it'd made near impossible by the constant posting of populist unsubstantiated blather and innuendo.

[JayEZ2K]

Perhaps there is a case for the punter carrying a card with an appropriate question, in Romanian* asking the girl if she is doing sex work voluntarily...

* or Polish, Hungarian, Mandarin etc as appropriate.

This is a great solution. I've seen sex worker's rights posters in the Soho walkups. This would basically just be a translation of this. Or just a simple question or two as you propose would suffice. I would recommend keeping it on your punting phone rather than a printed card. And no, I don't think you would be at any risk of bodily harm for showing it. If there was a pimp, he's keen to make money, not draw the police to his flat.

I've also gotten the personal contacts for Chinese girls and I've been able to get their background stories, I can see that they're getting out and doing touristy things in the UK, and I can also see when they make it back to their home country safely. But most people won't be able to do this. This is for Chinese places, which I have been to many of, and looked in detail, but have not found any type of coercion or forced labor.

The only place I've ever reported was Romanian, but I pretty much avoid these places at this point. If you were to visit, using the translated question's in Romanian would be best. Maybe somebody here could get their personal contact info, but I'm sure I couldn't.

One legislative solution might be to require a multilingual sex workers' rights poster in the flat/room.

[maxxblue]

I've also gotten the personal contacts for Chinese girls and I've been able to get their background stories, I can see that they're getting out and doing touristy things in the UK, and I can also see when they make it back to their home country safely.

What do you mean by this, JayEZ2K?

[Kev40ish]

What do you mean by this, JayEZ2K?

He sound similar to me, I like to be able to track good Chinese girls, so often swap numbers or WeChat details..

That way you can interact with them, find out where they are working, as I worked in China it also means I had ready contacts when I was over there..

[LLPunting]

I don't know about this parlour thing. We know where the parlours are and what goes on there. You can imagine that the police do. If the girls were there against their will, why aren't there any raids?

More likely at pop-up parlours and flats.  If they're like London the established parlours probably get check-ins to ensure the girls aren't being hassled and possibly no drugs, etc being distributed.  Always disconcerting when you see the cops appear at the walk-ups, maids would always reassure me before having a quick friendly chat with the officers.