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Author Topic: Don't criminalise paying for sex  (Read 2036 times)

Offline breast is best

Google the above and sign this parliament petition to avoid this going into law .
It will benefit us all if you do.Deadline is 8 June 2021.

Also pass it on so the 100,000 signatures required are achieved.

Offline alabama1

Why are you so concerned ? Zero reviews in almost 6 years. Have you ever paid for sex  :unknown:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 06:42:51 am by alabama1 »

Offline Payyourwaymate

Google the above and sign this parliament petition to avoid this going into law .
It will benefit us all if you do.Deadline is 8 June 2021.

Also pass it on so the 100,000 signatures required are achieved.

No reviews for 6 years but now showing up out of fear of a potential law that punters would not abide by anyway. Go back in your cave.

Online Problem Child

I think this is a case of playing the man not the ball with the replies here..
The issue is not whether punters will ignore the law, it’s whether the police will.
A prosecution for punting would be devastating for most of us and doesn’t bear thinking about.
Don’t know how much of a chance there is of this happening in England and Wales, but it’s already law in NI and was part of the SNP’s victorious manifesto.

Offline Ali Katt

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No way will it ever be criminalised. If that was the case why isn't Viva Street in court? What about "legal" kerb crawling areas? What about seeking and similar sites? What about only fans - is that not prostitution?

Offline lillythesavage

No way will it ever be criminalised. If that was the case why isn't Viva Street in court? What about "legal" kerb crawling areas? What about seeking and similar sites? What about only fans - is that not prostitution?


The Only fans and Seeking comments are going to open up an old debate, you are correct, it is prostitution if they meet for sex and money, but lots do not see it that way apparently.


Offline Steely Dan

No way will it ever be criminalised. If that was the case why isn't Viva Street in court? What about "legal" kerb crawling areas? What about seeking and similar sites? What about only fans - is that not prostitution?
These things all exist under today's laws.  If the law were to change, perhaps all these things would be banned. 

Scotland is worrying.  The main hope is that the Greens wont go for it, and the non SNP parties will object just because.

Offline Ali Katt

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These things all exist under today's laws.  If the law were to change, perhaps all these things would be banned. 

Scotland is worrying.  The main hope is that the Greens wont go for it, and the non SNP parties will object just because.
Kerb crawling is illegal, yet certain councils and police allw RLD to operate and of course the police know about them. The same with brothels as long as people don't traffick, annoy neighbors, set up near a school or church or acoid tax they usually turn a blind eye.

Online Problem Child

Essentially the police turn a blind eye because they are allowed/encouraged to do so by government, either local or national.
The problem is that if a government decides to criminalise punters in order to protect the poor helpless women from the violence of prostitution (how some see it) then pressure will be put on the Police to enforce these new  laws.


Offline SamOmar

Google the above and sign this parliament petition to avoid this going into law .
It will benefit us all if you do.Deadline is 8 June 2021.

Also pass it on so the 100,000 signatures required are achieved.

I don't think it would reach 100,000 signatures. Punting / Sex work is the kind of thing that many do but no one wants to put their signature against it.

In the next 10 years I reckon it would be criminalised in England / Wales just as it is in Northern Ireland. It would still go on in a similar scale here especially due to less and less youngsters getting married / increasing divorce rates and other aspects that make us crave a punt.
Banned reason: Undesirable, convicted sex trafficker / pimp
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Offline Kelgon85

Wait a minute, what is this petition actually for? Didn't some MP present the bill at the back end of last year, and it went through to its second reading. Then when the second reading came in January it went no further. Non-government bills very rarely proceed, and this is, rightfully so, seen as a very controversial bill by many still.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 03:33:37 pm by Kelgon85 »

Offline MysteryManNo.7

I presume you're talking about this bill: External Link/Members Only which passed its first reading back in December 2020.

According to the address I linked: 'The Bill failed to complete its passage through Parliament before the end of the session. This means the Bill will make no further progress'.

That's not to say the bill will not be brought up again but I don't see the Nordic Model being brought in in England anytime soon.

Online Strawberry

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Wait a minute, what is this petition actually for? Didn't some MP present the bill at the back end of last year, and it went through to its second reading. Then when the second reading came in January it went no further. Non-government bills very rarely proceed, and this is, rightfully so, seen as a very controversial bill by many still.

Since then criminalising paying for sex has been snook into the bill aimed at protests, the recent policing and crime bill.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 03:48:57 pm by Strawberry »

Offline Kelgon85

Since then criminalising paying for sex has been snook into the bill aimed at protests, the recent policing and crime bill.

From the reading I've just done, it’s the same MP who was unsuccessful last year who is trying to get amendments made. So it hasn't been snuck into, but this MP is trying to get amendments made. I mean, her she was unsuccessful a few months ago.

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« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 04:13:16 pm by Kelgon85 »

Offline fudi_maar

I don't think it would reach 100,000 signatures. Punting / Sex work is the kind of thing that many do but no one wants to put their signature against it.

In the next 10 years I reckon it would be criminalised in England / Wales just as it is in Northern Ireland. It would still go on in a similar scale here especially due to less and less youngsters getting married / increasing divorce rates and other aspects that make us crave a punt.

Sadly true. Which is odd cos we don't need to give our real names, nor our real email address. I've just signed the petition, for what it's worth.

This country is going to become like Scandi-fucking-navia, or most of the US - if you're a punter, you're seen as a criminal.
Years ago, I met a guy at an LMP party who used to fly over from Norway just to party here. He was saying how lucky we were living in London where we have this at our doorstep.


Offline Mr Doodle

If we take on the Nordic model or criminalise paid sex, two things will happen:
  • It will be pushed underground and with policing resources already stretched a mushroom/cottage industry of trafficing sex workers will flourish as well as a drop in tax revenue as local SPs will also have to go underground (and the increase in violence they will be subject to by those wretched in out community). So - first own goal.
  • Punters who want to avoid the risk of a criminal record will take aferry across the channel or a cheap flight into Europe and have a grand day out or the big sex holiday further afield.. and of course this means two things - can't control how other countries defend sex trafficing and their CO2 footprint will increase as a result - so also bad for the climate. Greens should definitely object to any banning of paying for sex.

Offline hamchang

Petitions are pointless. The corporate ones are simply a DATA farming exercise and the supposed government ones are to give an illusion of the government actually representing the people.

Offline Trex

Hey guys

If England, Wales and Scotland decided to make a new law and make Prostitution illegal. Would you still punt?

I heard Northern Ireland made it illegal for a while but I still seeing reviews on here for NI. Any guys from Northern Ireland reading this, give us some information about it.

For me I would still punt but it won’t be good for us because it won’t be safe.

Offline Horseman

I'm pretty sure I would but as with most things its impossible to know until it happens.

I mean, if it became seriously hard to find girls, arrange things or the quality went downhill so you were basically having the Rom experience over and over then I'd have my doubts.

There would also be the issue of how seriously it was being taken. If it was illegal in name but nothing done (like brothels for instance, plenty of establishments left well alone by police although they're technically illegal) then its not a huge problem.

Of course if there was some super crusade to find all punters and take them to court. Well in that instance stopping would be the only option for me. I wouldn't be willing to risk seeing my children.

Offline Dr Strangelove

Hi Trex,
Paying for sex is illegal in Northern Ireland but the Police focus on cases where human trafficking is involved. I don’t know of any prosecutions of punters who were seeing ordinary WGs. It’s said that an offence would be very difficult to prove.
That said the law has an effect here. Just compare the number of girls on AW in Northern Ireland (68)with the number in Scotland (931) which has a bit more than  twice the population. People are nervous and that’s bad for business.


Online daviemac

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There's a thread running on this subject.

Edit

Now merged.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 06:52:42 pm by daviemac »

Offline DrGFreeman

there seem to be two similar threads

Id be very surprised if boris introduced a nordic model in england & wales
the recent bill was a private members bill not a govt sponsored one
the house of commons committee hearing on prostitution I thought was quite balanced and seem to not be in favour of the nordic model either
I would not put it past Nicola up here in scotland though in the SNPs desire to be seen as progressive

I wonder how much difference it would make though
seems to be plenty of reviews on the Ireland board from the north
I can assure there is plenty of punting options in the USA, where is it decidedly illegal

Offline Steely Dan


I can assure there is plenty of punting options in the USA, where is it decidedly illegal
Not plenty of options for a country with 5 times the population.  And far more expensive since there is 'hazard pay' because they risk jail.  The result is: drives out normal escorts, but not the exploited ones. The USA proves how shit any of these sorts of laws are. For the punter and for escorts (and those who would happily be escorts but instead muddle by on minimum wage).  Lose Lose Lose.

Offline lillythesavage

Chinese and EE etc organized crime will be the reason Prostitution gets put in the spotlight, been ignored for ever pretty much but they cannot ignore trafficking, money laundering etc, that is quite obviously becoming worse and bringing the game attention.

Offline DrGFreeman

Not plenty of options for a country with 5 times the population.  And far more expensive since there is 'hazard pay' because they risk jail.  The result is: drives out normal escorts, but not the exploited ones. The USA proves how shit any of these sorts of laws are. For the punter and for escorts (and those who would happily be escorts but instead muddle by on minimum wage).  Lose Lose Lose.

I lived in Texas for five years.
in my experience, most of your comment is wrong
the USA is not a punting paradise, I am not avocating it as a model
but its illegal and theres plenty of it
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 06:58:28 pm by DrGFreeman »

Offline JayEZ2K

I think this is a case of playing the man not the ball with the replies here..
The issue is not whether punters will ignore the law, it’s whether the police will.
A prosecution for punting would be devastating for most of us and doesn’t bear thinking about.
Don’t know how much of a chance there is of this happening in England and Wales, but it’s already law in NI and was part of the SNP’s victorious manifesto.
Thank you, I would agree. If made illegal, prices would drastically rise, and selection would drastically fall. Whether or not it's likely, I would rather not take any chances.

The petition does will not publish your personal details anywhere or use them for anything other than this petition.

Offline lamboman

I'd imagine you could drive a bus through any future legislation regarding prostitution,a box ticking excercise nothing more.
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Offline Trex

Well I had a look at the Petition 7,792 signed so far. I can see that it can reach to 10,000 but it’s no way it’s going to go up to 100,000. I want to sign it but wanted know my name and post code so I give it a miss.

I just realised there are 70,000 sex workers in UK, that surprised me.

Offline myothernameis

If punting with escorts became illegal, guess the only part that would be covered by the law, would be buying sex from an escort.  Now how do the police go ahead and enforce the law, and who do they target, the punter or the escort

Many of the escorts we see, operate from apartment, or there own flats, so for the police to gain entry, would assume they would need a warrant to enter the premise. 

I would see many escorts, just change the way they advertise them self's, so they advertise they are offering company for 1hr @£150.   I can see adult work disappearing unless they make changes, but more likely escort will make there own web page.  The escort could take a page from, how you access escorts web site in the usa.  On clicking the the link to say your over 18, or 25, there is an additional declaration, where you must declare if you are an officer of the law, or involved in authority

Offline Thephoenix

As I have an enlarged prostate, I would still need to regularly attend one of my local Thai massage establishments for the purpose of prostate massage..... purely for health reasons...nowt to do with sex M'Lord.

Also as part of the ancient art of traditional Thai massage, occasionally accidental emissions may occur.
Similar accidents can occur with intimate hair removal services.

I'm also studying ancient religions, with particular interest in Hinduism and Buddhism, particularly in the field of tantra including the text, theory, techniques and practice of these ancient religious rituals.

Samantha at Fifi's massage parlour assures me that sticking two fingers up my clack valve is an essential part of stimulating my root chakra from the inside and honouring my lingam.

As you're aware M'Lord, that's nowt to do with sex, and by the way, that's the second time I've seen you this week Sir.

Offline SamOmar

As I have an enlarged prostate, I would still need to regularly attend one of my local Thai massage establishments for the purpose of prostate massage..... purely for health reasons...nowt to do with sex M'Lord.

Similar accidents can occur with intimate hair removal services.


I am really interested in this, if you know a place where I can have my balls waxed and an oily HE let me know
Banned reason: Undesirable, convicted sex trafficker / pimp
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Offline Itsnotshy

Signed it ages ago.
Been following the progress of all this shit on twitter since last December.
New police and crime bill will be passed as it's a government bill the only question is will the MPs amendment be accepted and slipped in.
I'm prepared for the worst, but then I'm a pessimist.
Don't fancy dodging the police at my age, don't think my heart could take it.

Offline Home Alone

Signed it ages ago.
Been following the progress of all this shit on twitter since last December.
New police and crime bill will be passed as it's a government bill the only question is will the MPs amendment be accepted and slipped in.
I'm prepared for the worst, but then I'm a pessimist.
Don't fancy dodging the police at my age, don't think my heart could take it.

Does anybody know if that bill will have any effect on the ability of Chief Constables and Police & Crime Commissioners to determine local priorities?

Apart from credible reports of Parlours being used for money laundering  or employing trafficked SPs; or Sergei setting up a brothel using only trafficked WGs, I can't imagine that this Bill would lead to many Parlours or the working  premises of many girls on AW being raided.

Offline Itsnotshy

Does anybody know if that bill will have any effect on the ability of Chief Constables and Police & Crime Commissioners to determine local priorities?

Apart from credible reports of Parlours being used for money laundering  or employing trafficked SPs; or Sergei setting up a brothel using only trafficked WGs, I can't imagine that this Bill would lead to many Parlours or the working  premises of many girls on AW being raided.
You would hope not but if the police choose to they could just sit outside a parlour and arrest punters as they come out.
Saw the Swedish police do a similar thing in a you tube video. They just arrested the punter when he came out the flat took him off to fine him and said they would come back later to see if they could net any more hapless saps. They didn't appear to give a shit if the girl was trafficked or not, just used her as bait.
Difficult to see how fs parlours could survive unless they all go 'legit' massage.....nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 08:16:15 pm by Itsnotshy »

Offline Trex

Sounds like Sweden must be very Depressing country to live in.

Online Problem Child

Sounds like Sweden must be very Depressing country to live in.
Probably explains why they’re such a bunch of miserable cunts..

Offline Payyourwaymate

You would hope not but if the police choose to they could just sit outside a parlour and arrest punters as they come out.
Saw the Swedish police do a similar thing in a you tube video. They just arrested the punter when he came out the flat took him off to fine him and said they would come back later to see if they could net any more hapless saps. They didn't appear to give a shit if the girl was trafficked or not, just used her as bait.
Difficult to see how fs parlours could survive unless they all go 'legit' massage.....nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

The police in this country don't even have enough resources to deal with county lines. Where will they have the time to catch punters?

Offline bs123456

Once again it's politicians pontificating about something they don't understand, with those directly affected/involved being literally the last to be consulted if they're ever consulted at all.  Failing that, the consultation can just consist at least 90% of people who agree with your viewpoint and it's job done, see you in the pub for lunch.

Many politicians would just fight tooth and nail to ban the behaviour in question "just because".

Same goes for other sensitive topics such as assisted dying.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 11:34:42 pm by bs123456 »

Offline Ali Katt

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Once again it's politicians pontificating about something they don't understand, with those directly affected/involved being literally the last to be consulted if they're ever consulted at all.  Failing that, the consultation can just consist at least 90% of people who agree with your viewpoint and it's job done, see you in the pub for lunch.

Many politicians would just fight tooth and nail to ban the behaviour in question "just because".

Same goes for other sensitive topics such as assisted dying.
It's all planned.

Offline marcius2018

Kerb crawling is illegal, yet certain councils and police allw RLD to operate and of course the police know about them. The same with brothels as long as people don't traffick, annoy neighbors, set up near a school or church or acoid tax they usually turn a blind eye.

What is the legal position in this country re "entrapment"?

Anyone know?

Offline marcius2018

What is the legal position in this country re "entrapment"?

Anyone know?

Undercover WPC, or PC (let's not be sexist), advertises on AW, or similar, punter takes the bait, goes to premises, hands over dosh at the outset, for services previously agreed (sexual), by email, text or phone-call.

Next thing you hear......“You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”

How possible/admissible is this nightmare scenario?

Offline Itsnotshy

The police in this country don't even have enough resources to deal with county lines. Where will they have the time to catch punters?
Set up special units funded by the fines imposed? In Sweden I believe it's about £1500. If you can nab a couple of punters a day it's all self financing.

Offline marcius2018

Set up special units funded by the fines imposed? In Sweden I believe it's about £1500. If you can nab a couple of punters a day it's all self financing.

Easy and not as dangerous!

Offline donnybob

What is the legal position in this country re "entrapment"?

Anyone know?

Slightly off the main topic, but regards entrapment 3 times now I have been messaged on  a swingers site and during private ( off site ) conversation they have revealed they are not yet 16, I have closed down the chat immediately and reported the profile, but 2 of these chats they have sent me the same pictures.
I believe they are undercover police or the groups that hunt guys looking for underage sex, and I guess the men would not have a leg to stand on if it came to court even they didn't instigate the contact

Offline Ali Katt

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The country's flat broke after the Iraq war. We don't even have the money or resources to stop real crime like drug gangs in London. Say if it did pass, you get some gesturing, who remembers when they went after people who sent mean tweets; we gave up a lot of freedom for the privilege - Snooper's Charter, although now most of the monitoring is within the companies. Who was the last person prosecuted for posting something offensive? Count Dankula? Then you hear fuck all once the damage is done.

Far better to concern yourself with the Online Safety Bill, than whether some punters get caught with their flies open in a brothel.

Offline SamOmar

Set up special units funded by the fines imposed? In Sweden I believe it's about £1500. If you can nab a couple of punters a day it's all self financing.

How do you know if someone is a punter? I agree with Ali Katt and it could never be enforced here. Sweden has a lower population and therefore easier to enforce something like this, having said that a quick google search shows a vast number of escorts openly advertising in Stockholm
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Offline Kelgon85

I mean, you go to a private apartment or even a hotel to see a WG, how on Earth can anyone prove you've just paid them for sex? Police say "We believe you've just paid this lady for sex". Myself and the WG say "No I haven't". What do they do then? "Well, we think you have", and arrest the punter anyway on a hunch? Granted, massage parlours and brothels might be another matter, but nonetheless, I just can't see it working here. I just don't think the police would be arsed, and I would imagine it would be pretty hard to enforce.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 10:32:21 pm by Kelgon85 »

Offline Trex

If you get caught in Sweden and the police come, say we are shooting a porno with her. Shooting a porno is legal in Sweden , am I right or not? Got that idea from family guy.

That’s why that law is really silly to me.

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Offline lillythesavage

The country's flat broke after the Iraq war. We don't even have the money or resources to stop real crime like drug gangs in London. Say if it did pass, you get some gesturing, who remembers when they went after people who sent mean tweets; we gave up a lot of freedom for the privilege - Snooper's Charter, although now most of the monitoring is within the companies. Who was the last person prosecuted for posting something offensive? Count Dankula? Then you hear fuck all once the damage is done.

Far better to concern yourself with the Online Safety Bill, than whether some punters get caught with their flies open in a brothel.


Money is not the problem with the Police in London, they spend it all on luxury cars to drive around waiting to react to crime, and we have a Mayor in charge who spent his life hating the Police and making a lot of money taking them to court, probably still is underhand, why would he want to reduce crime.

Though they drive around, except when parked on double yellows outside take away shops, when was the last time you saw a car stopped for poor driving, bald tyres, speeding, or any other reason, it is very rare, if the anpr says green, then that is that, or they have a speed gun while hiding, they just cannot be bothered.

The less they do the less chance of the likes of Kahn doing them for wrongful arrest or being accused of being racist, viscous circle that no amount of money will change.