20 mph speed cameras

[Markus]

Has anyone been caught by one as yet?

I was driving and noticed two police cars parked on either side of a busy road stopping motorists and issuing fines.  I’ve been told that the new cameras issued for the 20 mph zones will catch anyone over the limit (i.e. no 10% margins as you do have 33 mph limits on 30 mph cameras).  On inner suburban roads near to schools I completely understand the necessity.

This is however just another money making scheme designed to slow down commuters, increase pollution and increase the amount of fines collected. 

[fudi_maar]

This is however just another money making scheme designed to slow down commuters, increase pollution and increase the amount of fines collected.

It is exactly this. A car owner is now seen as a sitting duck - a cash cow which the authorities can milk like an ATM machine.

- 20mph speed limits
- LTN zones
- charging for dropping people off at Heathrow (not just charging, but making it easier for drivers to forget to pay online within 24 hours , hence screwing them for a extra £60
   fine)
- 'residents only' drive through roads.
- no left turns on some junctions
- no right turns on others
- bus lanes every fucking where
- ULEZ zone extension
- 24/7 London congestion charge.


Mother-fuckers.

[daviemac]

Has anyone been caught by one as yet?

I was driving and noticed two police cars parked on either side of a busy road stopping motorists and issuing fines.  I’ve been told that the new cameras issued for the 20 mph zones will catch anyone over the limit (i.e. no 10% margins as you do have 33 mph limits on 30 mph cameras).  On inner suburban roads near to schools I completely understand the necessity.

This is however just another money making scheme designed to slow down commuters, increase pollution and increase the amount of fines collected.

You can't get fined if you don't speed.   

BTW there aren't any legal margins, if you do 31 in a 30 you can be done for it. The 10% 'allowance' is a fallacy. Whether or not they chose to is a different matter, same as if you get stopped by a police car he has the option of just telling you to go slower or issuing a fine.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Ex got done for 33 in a 30 limit!.

We've had this 20 MPH daftness in Cambridge for a few years now, never heard of anyone being done the police didnt seem to like the idea 'tho!...

[Squire Haggard]

I would like to see the police do something about deliberate and aggressive tailgating. Many years ago they tackled this in Spain, and I saw the difference when I drove there. Fining people for edging over the speed limit is a nonsense that does not tackle the aforementioned much bigger problem on the roads. That's the case in my neck of the woods anyway. Here, there are  lots of 60mph single carriageway roads with limited overtaking opportunities.

[lillythesavage]

I would like to see the police do something about deliberate and aggressive tailgating. Many years ago they tackled this in Spain, and I saw the difference when I drove there. Fining people for edging over the speed limit is a nonsense that does not tackle the aforementioned much bigger problem on the roads. That's the case in my neck of the woods anyway. Here, there are  lots of 60mph single carriageway roads with limited overtaking opportunities.

For that to happen there would need to be traffic patrols, which are just about non existent. Often driven between places in Scotland, to and from Essex and not seen a single patrol car, plenty of cameras though.

They are more productive with a speed gun pointed at traffic or stopping trucks and making fines up as they go, they leave motorway or A road patrols to the pretenders in four wheel drives.

[Squire Haggard]

For that to happen there would need to be traffic patrols, which are just about non existent. Often driven between places in Scotland, to and from Essex and not seen a single patrol car, plenty of cameras though.

They are more productive with a speed gun pointed at traffic or stopping trucks and making fines up as they go, they leave motorway or A road patrols to the pretenders in four wheel drives.

Yup, the speed cameras/guns get the easy targets, the other bigger problems are just to much trouble.

[Doc Holliday]

BTW there aren't any legal margins, if you do 31 in a 30 you can be done for it. The 10% 'allowance' is a fallacy. Whether or not they chose to is a different matter, same as if you get stopped by a police car he has the option of just telling you to go slower or issuing a fine.

Indeed the 10% allowance is a guidance which may or may not apply. Legally you can be prosecuted at 31 in a 30mph.

External Link/Members Only

I would be happier seeing speed cameras on 20mph roads which are potentially very dangerous with parked cars etc. rather than on 30mph dual carriageways which are undoubtedly revenue sources and not safety cameras.

[standardpostage]

As far as I know, in Lancashire, 20 MPH speed limits are not enforced , by cameras or humans

I am quite surprised that they are not enforced, as they are missing a trick, on milking the Lancashire and other motorists.

In saying that, there must be a million speed humps, road narrowing's, chicanes, raised platforms and other calming methods, in residential areas and outside schools, so it is almost impossible to speed, without damaging your suspension.

[Gordon Bennett]

For that to happen there would need to be traffic patrols, which are just about non existent. Often driven between places in Scotland, to and from Essex and not seen a single patrol car, plenty of cameras though.

They are more productive with a speed gun pointed at traffic or stopping trucks and making fines up as they go, they leave motorway or A road patrols to the pretenders in four wheel drives.

Don't the police act on dashcam footage now? As a cyclist I know my local force encourage cyclists to upload footage of any dangerous driving they encounter on their GoPro,  presume its similar for motorists too.

[lillythesavage]

Don't the police act on dashcam footage now? As a cyclist I know my local force encourage cyclists to upload footage of any dangerous driving they encounter on their GoPro,  presume its similar for motorists too.

 

Uploading is one thing, plod doing anything with it is another. 

[lillythesavage]

Indeed the 10% allowance is a guidance which may or may not apply. Legally you can be prosecuted at 31 in a 30mph.

External Link/Members Only

I would be happier seeing speed cameras on 20mph roads which are potentially very dangerous with parked cars etc. rather than on 30mph dual carriageways which are undoubtedly revenue sources and not safety cameras.

Every stretch of 50mph average speed cameras I have ever used are fine at 56mph, never had a ticket.

This can cause problems though, truck drivers know it and over cautious 47mph Eddie doe not.

[lamboman]

I live in a village,my property is set back form the main road (30mph limit) but people tear through the village at 50mph.
This is the reason there are 20mph limits,people drive 10,20 or 30mph above any limit so it helps to keep the speed down.

[lamboman]

Don't the police act on dashcam footage now? As a cyclist I know my local force encourage cyclists to upload footage of any dangerous driving they encounter on their GoPro,  presume its similar for motorists too.

They do act on dashcam footage,having recently coming back from Spain reminded me again how differently cyclists are treated in Europe.
Pretty much everyone gives you 2m room instead of trying to take the stickers off your bike when they come past.

[fudi_maar]

I live in a village,my property is set back form the main road (30mph limit) but people tear through the village at 50mph.
This is the reason there are 20mph limits,people drive 10,20 or 30mph above any limit so it helps to keep the speed down.

Username check out! 

[donnybob]

The A165 on the East Coast runs from Hull and goes up to Bridlington, there is a part called the Beeford straight as its dead arrow straight as you leave Beeford heading for Hull

There used to be a hidden camera just before the village 30mph  ends, and I knew where it was located

I got prosecuted doing 31, I was convinced I was below but what can you do, so a few months later a speed awareness course, that passed an afternoon and I did actually learn something, but not enough to justify the 4 hours sat there

[Squire Haggard]

The A165 on the East Coast runs from Hull and goes up to Bridlington, there is a part called the Beeford straight as its dead arrow straight as you leave Beeford heading for Hull

There used to be a hidden camera just before the village 30mph  ends, and I knew where it was located

I got prosecuted doing 31, I was convinced I was below but what can you do, so a few months later a speed awareness course, that passed an afternoon and I did actually learn something, but not enough to justify the 4 hours sat there

Fuck me, that's hilarious. A speed awareness course for doing 31mph. I suppose that the only thing that you learned was that the law is an ass. But you knew that already. 

[PepeMAGA]

Fuck me, that's hilarious. A speed awareness course for doing 31mph. I suppose that the only thing that you learned was that the law is an ass. But you knew that already. 

Don't know why there isn't more protest about this kind of nonsense. Imo it's more dangerous avoiding hitting 31 than doing it. Unless your car has a speed limiter. its  moneymaking scam

[lillythesavage]

Don't know why there isn't more protest about this kind of nonsense. Imo it's more dangerous avoiding hitting 31 than doing it. Unless your car has a speed limiter. its  moneymaking scam

Too late for that, the move to cameras was accepted to easily, just like road pricing, no copper would have prosecuted anyone for 1 mph and few fight a camera ticket because by the time you get it you have no idea of the speed you were doing, no proof, no argument, that is what they really on.

[lostandfound]

I don't have a problem with the 20 mph limit in urban areas. I make sure I drive just below it. IMO as a motorist on residential streets I'm a guest on the roads, not the pedestrians and cyclists.

Do see some mentalists going looney behind me - can spot them from some distance away before they zoom up behind and kick off.

[chrishornx]

External Link/Members Only

the tolerance of speed limits is not a pure fallacy

[Markus]

I don't have a problem with the 20 mph limit in urban areas. I make sure I drive just below it. IMO as a motorist on residential streets I'm a guest on the roads, not the pedestrians and cyclists.

Do see some mentalists going looney behind me - can spot them from some distance away before they zoom up behind and kick off.

That’s the biggest concern for me.  I can get used to the 20 mph zones but the constant idiots who come up behind you banging their car horns can get a bit much.  If I could stand public transport and didn’t need my car for work, I would ditch my car and just get a Zip Car whenever it was needed.

[Taggart]

 

Uploading is one thing, plod doing anything with it is another.

Submitted two clips of poor driving, one speeding, to the same force. No action. They can feck off now.

[magpie252]

The 10% 'allowance' is a fallacy.

Not quite, back before EU Regulations, the British Standard for speedometers was +/- 10% of the actual road speed.
Therefore the Police had to allow 10% over to negate any defense 'my speedo was only showing 70mph' etc.

Modern speedos complying with EU regulation must not show anything above the actual road speed & de accurate to within -10%

[daviemac]

Not quite, back before EU Regulations, the British Standard for speedometers was +/- 10% of the actual road speed.
Therefore the Police had to allow 10% over to negate any defense 'my speedo was only showing 70mph' etc.

Modern speedos complying with EU regulation must not show anything above the actual road speed & de accurate to within -10%

Perhaps you and chrishornx should take up defending speeders. The two below could've done with your help.   

Ex got done for 33 in a 30 limit!.

I got prosecuted doing 31, I was convinced I was below but what can you do, so a few months later a speed awareness course, that passed an afternoon and I did actually learn something, but not enough to justify the 4 hours sat there

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Ex Missus went on such a speed awareness course, was told over some three hours, to drive round in 30 limits in third gear, no higher!..

Total bollix!...

[Liverpool]

Not quite, back before EU Regulations, the British Standard for speedometers was +/- 10% of the actual road speed.
Therefore the Police had to allow 10% over to negate any defense 'my speedo was only showing 70mph' etc.

Modern speedos complying with EU regulation must not show anything above the actual road speed & de accurate to within -10%

You are definitely wrong on this. Having attended a speed awareness course (33 in a 30) this was one of the myths that was dispelled.

[Doc Holliday]

External Link/Members Only

the tolerance of speed limits is not a pure fallacy

From the link you supplied.

"Despite the higher thresholds of speed cameras in some areas of the UK - you should never go beyond the speed limit. For example, if you’re travelling 31mph in a 30 limit or 71mph on a motorway, you’re in fact breaking the law and could receive a charge."

[Squire Haggard]

Action on speeding fines varies depending on the Chief Cunstable of the region. If there's a severe outbreak of swine fever at your local cunstabulary, then you've had it.

''The police forces in England and Wales that are most - and least - likely to cancel a speeding fine has been revealed.

There's a huge difference in the chances of being let off a speeding fine depending where in the country you've been caught, according to Home Office data.

For instance, three in five motorists are let off a fixed penalty notice (FPN) related to speeding by City of London, while drivers are pretty much banged to rights by North Wales police, according to a new report.''

External Link/Members Only

[stevedave]

As far as I know, in Lancashire, 20 MPH speed limits are not enforced , by cameras or humans

I'm sure I have read somewhere or been told that the 20mph limit isn't actually legally enforceable and that 30mph is the lowest legally enforceable speed limit. 20mph is advisory only.

I may be wrong.

[Doc Holliday]

I'm sure I have read somewhere or been told that the 20mph limit isn't actually legally enforceable and that 30mph is the lowest legally enforceable speed limit. 20mph is advisory only.

I may be wrong.

Once again it is legally enforceable, but it appears rarely enforced?

[hullad]

I'm sure I have read somewhere or been told that the 20mph limit isn't actually legally enforceable and that 30mph is the lowest legally enforceable speed limit. 20mph is advisory only.

I may be wrong.

Road speeds are governed by the speeding laws and can be as low as 5 mph in certain areas. Speeding is a criminal offence and you you get a criminal record for it, this could and often does effect your insurance. Many are unaware of reporting the criminal offence to there insurers, then fall foul  in the result of an accident/ claim when it invalidates there policy. I also know of some one who failed to fill it in on a job appliction and ended up being convicted of fraud for failing to report.

So don't forget and put in offences on any form when asked

[Doc Holliday]

Speeding is a criminal offence and you you get a criminal record for it, this could and often does effect your insurance.

Yes it will be a criminal offence if convicted in court. However all motoring offences dealt with by a fixed penalty notice alone, are not criminal offences but must still be declared on an insurance proposal 

[chrishornx]

From the link you supplied.

"Despite the higher thresholds of speed cameras in some areas of the UK - you should never go beyond the speed limit. For example, if you’re travelling 31mph in a 30 limit or 71mph on a motorway, you’re in fact breaking the law and could receive a charge."

yep that suggests there is an 'element' of tolerance

surely some on here have been stopped for speeding and let off with a caution/bollocking - which could suggest tolerance

[Doc Holliday]

yep that suggests there is an 'element' of tolerance

surely some on here have been stopped for speeding and let off with a caution/bollocking - which could suggest tolerance

Yes there is tolerance and discretion which appears to vary between Police forces, but 1mph over the limit is illegal and you may be prosecuted.

Many years ago I was driving on a very long straight road at 7.00 am on a bright sunny summer's morning.

In the distance I spotted an officer with a hand held camera partly hiding in the bushes. I braked and continued driving towards him at the 30 mph limit. He stopped me and then gave me the lecture showing me I was doing over 40, which I was.

However he was somewhat surprised I had seen him in the bushes at the distance I had, which was to my credit and with it being favourable driving conditions on a very quiet road, just gave me a warning 

[lostandfound]

yep that suggests there is an 'element' of tolerance

surely some on here have been stopped for speeding and let off with a caution/bollocking - which could suggest tolerance

Nope. I was done twice on the A30 in Cornwall. Both times I spotted them but that cut no dice!

And on the M5 in Somerset once - spotted them peeling off the intersection, like a shark slipping into the water, but umm ...

I was much younger. Nowadays I let the adaptive cruise take the strain and stay within all limits.

Although as a youngster onetime my Mum called me out of bed on my day off to give my Dad a lift into work as his driver hadn't turned up. Stumbled into my car, saw there was a cop car following us, which pulled us over. I politely turned off into a side road knowing I was up for multiple infractions. When the copper realised I was giving my Dad a lift into work he mentioned I should get the smallest thing wrong on the car looked at, and let us go with no further action.

[lillythesavage]

Nope. I was done twice on the A30 in Cornwall. Both times I spotted them but that cut no dice!

And on the M5 in Somerset once - spotted them peeling off the intersection, like a shark slipping into the water, but umm ...

I was much younger. Nowadays I let the adaptive cruise take the strain and stay within all limits.

Although as a youngster onetime my Mum called me out of bed on my day off to give my Dad a lift into work as his driver hadn't turned up. Stumbled into my car, saw there was a cop car following us, which pulled us over. I politely turned off into a side road knowing I was up for multiple infractions. When the copper realised I was giving my Dad a lift into work he mentioned I should get the smallest thing wrong on the car looked at, and let us go with no further action.

I hate the adaptive cruise and do not trust it at all.


Back in the last century, before cameras and when vans makers were in competition to make the things the faster than the others, I would be on the M4 between 2 and 6 on a  Saturday morning, the days of motorway patrols not cameras.

The roads were deserted too, often they would sneak up on me doing a fair lick, spot Irish plates and never stop me, just put " slow Down" on the screen in the back window.
Giving tickets to EU registered drivers is a waste of time for them, even the cameras nowadays will not pursue a foreign registered vehicle.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Used to have to go to Bolton in Lancs at short ntoice years ago now before camears were in fashion!, that streach of the A1 near where the speed record for steam locos was set!  well nice 3 litre german wagon, mind you this was in the middle of the night don't think i saw a police car the  once, nice open road no other traffic to speak of;)

Those were the days!...

[PepeMAGA]

Other thing to note is the recommended speed limits signs (white rectangular) though they are a recommendation.. You could get done for dangerous driving for exceeding them... Which has no limit on the fine.

[MKJoseph]

As motorists we have all felt at times that we are being persecuted unreasonably or used as cash cows but that completely misses the point.
Speed kills. It’s a fact. Hit a child at 35 mph rather than at 30 mph and the damage is exponentially greater. There is a mountain of research and evidence to demonstrate this.
The obvious response from those in denial is to assert that their driving skills will always prevent them from hitting a child. Nonsense. It can happen to the best of drivers who may be completely blameless. But the child is still dead.
Think about it.

[timsussex]

As motorists we have all felt at times that we are being persecuted unreasonably or used as cash cows but that completely misses the point.
Speed kills. It’s a fact. Hit a child at 35 mph rather than at 30 mph and the damage is exponentially greater. There is a mountain of research and evidence to demonstrate this.
....

Correct
and the same argument apples to 20 mph zones

and was probably used against the removal of the man with the red flag

[MKJoseph]

That’s a fair point but the two things aren’t really comparable. I agree that the blanket 20 mph limit applied over large areas feels a bit authoritarian but my comments were addressing the view that many people (not on here) feel it’s OK to ignore speed limits. I should have made that clear.
We may all have our own view as to whether a particular limit is appropriate for any specific road but I don’t think it’s acceptable for individuals to make their own judgement about that and then exceed the speed limit as a result.

[dubs]

Our local online "newspaper" publishes where the speed camera vans will be positioned for the coming week, but not exactly when.  Many of them are on 20mph limits.

[magpie252]

You are definitely wrong on this. Having attended a speed awareness course (33 in a 30) this was one of the myths that was dispelled.

I don't think so, I was simply pointing out where the original 10% allowance came from

BS 3190 - SPECIFICATION FOR SPEEDOMETER AND ODOMETER SYSTEMS FOR ROAD VEHICLES (Withdrawn 1972)

As I pointed out, modern speedometers complying with current EU Regulation can not display a speed higher than the actual road speed

[GingerNuts]

I don't think so, I was simply pointing out where the original 10% allowance came from

BS 3190 - SPECIFICATION FOR SPEEDOMETER AND ODOMETER SYSTEMS FOR ROAD VEHICLES (Withdrawn 1972)

As I pointed out, modern speedometers complying with current EU Regulation can not display a speed higher than the actual road speed

It's quite the opposite. A speedometer must never show less than the actual road speed.

To comply with the law manufacturers will normally deliberately calibrate their speedometers to read ‘high’ by a certain amount.

[daviemac]

It's quite the opposite. A speedometer must never show less than the actual road speed.

To comply with the law manufacturers will normally deliberately calibrate their speedometers to read ‘high’ by a certain amount.

I would have to agree, if a speedo has to read below the actual speed you'd be driving around over the speed limit all the time.

[donnybob]

yep that suggests there is an 'element' of tolerance

surely some on here have been stopped for speeding and let off with a caution/bollocking - which could suggest tolerance

In the late 60s I had a Phil Read Race replica 750cc motorbike and on the westway in London a Ducati flew past me so I accelerated and raced it fuck knows what speed I was doing but he suddenly slowed and I went past then got pulled by a cop on a motorbike

The Ducati had wing mirrors mine being a race replica didn't, the Copper was a biker himself and we spent a few minutes chatting about bikes then he just said right fuck off and keep to the limit, apart from the fact that Police motorbikes hardly exist that wouldn't happen today

[tynetunnel]

It's quite the opposite. A speedometer must never show less than the actual road speed.

To comply with the law manufacturers will normally deliberately calibrate their speedometers to read ‘high’ by a certain amount.

Spot on. If you check the speed of your vehicle using gps on your phone (while someone else is driving) you’ll see that the true speed shown by the gps is slower than that shown by your car. When my car shows 55 mph, in reality I’m only achieving 50 mph

GPS should be very accurate as it’s all based on very exact timings

[GingerNuts]

Spot on. If you check the speed of your vehicle using gps on your phone (while someone else is driving) you’ll see that the true speed shown by the gps is slower than that shown by your car. When my car shows 55 mph, in reality I’m only achieving 50 mph

GPS should be very accurate as it’s all based on very exact timings

Tested it out yesterday. GPS 50mph, speedo 52mph; GPS 70mph, speedo 73mph. Speedo reads high by ~4%.

[billybobsmith]

I've been caught twice.
First time was near my house where the straight road goes from 40 to 30mph (school further up the road where at least one person has been killed and speed limits are broken a lot, but they won't park up there, only on a road that has had zero accidents ever.  They can claim that the presence of the van has prevented so-and-so I bet)
Tues or Thurs are the days the camera vans pop out in my town, and I could see a good half mile ahead whilst in the 40mph zone where the van was.
Slowed and my digital speedometer said 30mph all the way past the van.
2 days later, I got a luminous green letter saying I was doing 35mph.
Zero way of proving otherwise unless I was filming the road and my speedometer etc. at the time.
Had to pay £90+ for a speed awareness course.

Second time was on the M1 just past Meadowhall.
Driving along at 59mph as no real rush at 1:30-2:30am on the way to Manchester.
Two other cars in the lanes to my right went zooming past at some speed.
The overhead gantry camera double flashed for me as I approached, but not for them.
Motorway awareness course in Hull for that one.

Do lorries ever get picked up for speeding?  Every time I've ever been in "average 50mph speed limit" zones, with cameras, every lorry overtakes me and pulls away whilst I'm using cruise at 50mph.