'We are experiencing a higher than normal volume of calls...'

[King Nuts]

Hmm. But our call is still important, right? But clearly not important enough to hire more people to answer the fucking phone.

I get it that call centres might be short staffed what with the present circs., but can't calls be bounced on to staffers working from home and with access to a laptop?

Several weeks ago, long before all this virus malarkey, I'd booked a ticket on BA to travel this week. BA cancelled the flights, obvs, but the only way to get a refund was to call them. And they've made it as difficult as possible. There are telephonic dead ends, which you wise up to after a while. Took four days, and probably many more hours on hold (luckily to an 0800 number) before I finally spoke to a human being who processed the refund in good grace and promptly. But what a performance. And puts me right off travelling with them after this, once things get back to normal.

Compare with Avanti Trains. I'd booked a day trip up north with them for last week. They offered a refund without even having to ask, and on Advance tickets too. Simple online form to fill in, money turned up within a couple of days.

[cunningman]

I think the problem is training, which will normally face to face and then shadowing.  Doubtless the training will evolve, but it all takes time.

[winkywanky]

It would be a lot easier for everyone in instances such as this, if an automatically-generated email were sent to all passengers, offering them a refund.

There could even be a button in the email to click.

[GingerNuts]

It would be a lot easier for everyone in instances such as this, if an automatically-generated email were sent to all passengers, offering them a refund.

There could even be a button in the email to click.

They don't want to give a refund so they make it the most difficult option.

[winkywanky]

Of course 

[lewisjones23]

im sure i read that you had 12 months to claim the refund - may have been Easyjet 🤷🏻‍♂️

id have just waited a few weeks

[lewisjones23]

It would be a lot easier for everyone in instances such as this, if an automatically-generated email were sent to all passengers, offering them a refund.

There could even be a button in the email to click.

the danger with that is scammers

they could quite easily send out a spoof email asking for bank details to process the refund

they’d catch enough clueless people in the net to make it worth their while

[winkywanky]

the danger with that is scammers

they could quite easily send out a spoof email asking for bank details to process the refund

they’d catch enough clueless people in the net to make it worth their while

You're right, a button to click might be dodgy.

Although if the email had all your flight details that would indicate it was pukka?

They certainly could make things easier though, and it would be relatively easy to refund everyone from a particular flight if they so wished.

In actual fact, it could probably be done via the Airline App most people have on their phones now.

[lewisjones23]

You're right, a button to click might be dodgy.

Although if the email had all your flight details that would indicate it was pukka?

They certainly could make things easier though, and it would be relatively easy to refund everyone from a particular flight if they so wished.

In actual fact, it could probably be done via the Airline App most people have on their phones now.

You’ve got to account for the thickest people who literally just see refund and then click away no matter what 🤦🏻‍♂️

If a company like Amazon got involved in air travel then it would drag the industry in to the modern day. Everything would be as automated as possible and it would be as efficient as possible

For too long airline companies have colluded to extract as much money as possible whilst providing the worst experience that a customer will tolerate.

It makes flying a burden rather than anything even close to enjoyable, even in business.

[fudi_maar]

They don't want to give a refund so they make it the most difficult option.

^This.

And I speak from experience as I used to work for BA many years ago.

[paper7]

It would be a lot easier for everyone in instances such as this, if an automatically-generated email were sent to all passengers, offering them a refund.

There could even be a button in the email to click.

Too simple a solution and common sense, which Big Business doesn't have. They want to make it as difficult as possible so that you give up.

[Strawberry]

Once I got to the head of the queue Avanti were as posted above absolutely fabulous a couple of weeks ago, refunded the unrefundable portion of my journey. Usually I always buy refundable, but this time tried to reduce the cost following others styles of booking.

The logic was 'Well you can't do the return because you can't do the outward-have your money back'. Refund email received as we spoke.

I do suspect they wanted me off the phone, far easier to just agree everything then get to the next enquiry.

[threechilliman]

Too simple a solution and common sense, which Big Business doesn't have. They want to make it as difficult as possible so that you give up.

I've certainly experienced that in the past. But....

Once I got to the head of the queue Avanti were as posted above absolutely fabulous a couple of weeks ago, refunded the unrefundable portion of my journey. Usually I always buy refundable, but this time tried to reduce the cost following others styles of booking.

The logic was 'Well you can't do the return because you can't do the outward-have your money back'. Refund email received as we spoke.

I do suspect they wanted me off the phone, far easier to just agree everything then get to the next enquiry.

More recently, this has been policy. I've had one refunded without question.

[King Nuts]

They don't want to give a refund so they make it the most difficult option.

I get that, but BA were/are being deceptive. Website links that go nowhere, or that just take you round in circles. Advertised phone numbers that don't work. 'Press button 1 for...' etc etc that just cut you off.

To me, this is borderline fraudulent. They had my money, weeks ago. They cancelled the service I'd paid for, and while the law says they MUST refund me, they came up with deliberately deceptive tactics to prevent this from happening.

I'm done with BA after this. They can fuck off. I'll fly with someone else from now on.

(PS anyone want to buy some Avios off me?)

[King Nuts]

If a company like Amazon got involved in air travel then it would drag the industry in to the modern day. Everything would be as automated as possible and it would be as efficient as possible

For too long airline companies have colluded to extract as much money as possible whilst providing the worst experience that a customer will tolerate.

It makes flying a burden rather than anything even close to enjoyable, even in business.

I think the Amazon website is the gold standard. It can handle multiple product and service options, tells you where your stuff is, and keeps an address book for you.

In comparison, BA's website, HSBC's, BT's etc are a fucking shambles.

And you're right about flying. I loved flying in the 90s, and had a job that meant I flew somewhere or other most weeks. But nowadays it's a mostly hideous experience. Airlines scrimp on everything, and the cat and mouse game you have to play with the likes of Ryanair are as bad as sitting in one of their planes.

I used to love British Midland (he said, getting all wistful for a moment.) 10-minute check in at LHR T1, nice seats, proper inflight service, one-class service that treated everyone properly. All gone now.

[David1970]

I think the Amazon website is the gold standard. It can handle multiple product and service options, tells you where your stuff is, and keeps an address book for you.

In comparison, BA's website, HSBC's, BT's etc are a fucking shambles.

And you're right about flying. I loved flying in the 90s, and had a job that meant I flew somewhere or other most weeks. But nowadays it's a mostly hideous experience. Airlines scrimp on everything, and the cat and mouse game you have to play with the likes of Ryanair are as bad as sitting in one of their planes.

I used to love British Midland (he said, getting all wistful for a moment.) 10-minute check in at LHR T1, nice seats, proper inflight service, one-class service that treated everyone properly. All gone now.

When it comes to airlines you pay for what get.
I went to Frankfurt £9.99 each way with Ryan Air, I did not expect to be treated like a king, it was ok, nothing fancy.
I flew business class with Emirates to Hong Kong cost and arm and a leg, but wonderful service.
You can’t expect to pay peanuts and be treated like a king.

[Strawberry]

I think the Amazon website is the gold standard. It can handle multiple product and service options, tells you where your stuff is, and keeps an address book for you.

In comparison, BA's website, HSBC's, BT's etc are a fucking shambles.

And you're right about flying. I loved flying in the 90s, and had a job that meant I flew somewhere or other most weeks. But nowadays it's a mostly hideous experience. Airlines scrimp on everything, and the cat and mouse game you have to play with the likes of Ryanair are as bad as sitting in one of their planes.

I used to love British Midland (he said, getting all wistful for a moment.) 10-minute check in at LHR T1, nice seats, proper inflight service, one-class service that treated everyone properly. All gone now.

Ryanair were the only airline operating to a destination I needed to travel to last year, mostly awful and their car hire - NEVER EVER AGAIN. The only alternative was to spend 2 days travelling around the world via a different airline instead of a 40 minute direct flight, which at the time was not an option.

Ok if I had to return to that destination I would be forewarned and armed with enough experiential information, would do things that would minimise some of the issues faced. But that isn't the point.

[tesla]

I flew business class with Emirates to Hong Kong cost and arm and a leg, but wonderful service.
.

imagine what it would have been like with a better airline? like Qatar

[David1970]

imagine what it would have been like with a better airline? like Qatar

My employer pays, so I don’t complain, always find Emirates very good personally.

[tynetunnel]

Hmm. But our call is still important, right? But clearly not important enough to hire more people to answer the fucking phone.

I get it that call centres might be short staffed what with the present circs., but can't calls be bounced on to staffers working from home and with access to a laptop?

Several weeks ago, long before all this virus malarkey, I'd booked a ticket on BA to travel this week. BA cancelled the flights, obvs, but the only way to get a refund was to call them. And they've made it as difficult as possible. There are telephonic dead ends, which you wise up to after a while. Took four days, and probably many more hours on hold (luckily to an 0800 number) before I finally spoke to a human being who processed the refund in good grace and promptly. But what a performance. And puts me right off travelling with them after this, once things get back to normal.

Compare with Avanti Trains. I'd booked a day trip up north with them for last week. They offered a refund without even having to ask, and on Advance tickets too. Simple online form to fill in, money turned up within a couple of days.

No. Call handlers in offices work usually on desktop PC’s. Typically those businesses won’t have a store cupboard full of laptops just in case a “once in a century” global event happens and all the staff are required to work from home. Many/most laptops are made in China, along with the internal parts, and with lockdown there, there is now a global shortage.

Consequently businesses who usually operate their call centres from offices are finding it very difficult to transfer their agents to home working. I write from experience 

[tesla]

My employer pays, so I don’t complain, always find Emirates very good personally.

when I was able to fly business I found Emirates to be hit and miss, service wise but Qatar was good on every flight, Although I did manage two legs in First on an A380 with Emirates and that was superb

[ulstersubbie]

When it comes to airlines you pay for what get.
I went to Frankfurt £9.99 each way with Ryan Air, I did not expect to be treated like a king, it was ok, nothing fancy.

Exactly. People forget this, I've flown with RyanAir in the past, no complaints. It's a budget airline, that word tells you everything.

[Strawberry]

Exactly. People forget this, I've flown with RyanAir in the past, no complaints. It's a budget airline, that word tells you everything.

The flight I took last year with RA was not budget price I'm afraid.

[cotton]

Exactly. People forget this, I've flown with RyanAir in the past, no complaints. It's a budget airline, that word tells you everything.

Trouble comes when theres a problem , i got double charged for a flight with Ryan Air , admittedly it was the fault of the internet travel agent but they refered me to raise it with Ryanair and they just said nothing to do with us , 2 bookings were made with us , tough. You could argue they have a point insofar it was technically a problem originating from the booking agent but still , had to resort to a credit chargeback to get my money back , Ryanair even said i would be blacklisted from using them again, i asked for it in writing but never got it 

[ulstersubbie]

The flight I took last year with RA was not budget price I'm afraid.

What did you pay, just out of interest?

[Strawberry]

What did you pay, just out of interest?

Roughly £300 per person return with max cabin and hold luggage allowance, was £215 with maximum cabin bag.

[OakTree]

I think the Amazon website is the gold standard. It can handle multiple product and service options, tells you where your stuff is, and keeps an address book for you.

In comparison, BA's website, HSBC's, BT's etc are a fucking shambles.

And you're right about flying. I loved flying in the 90s, and had a job that meant I flew somewhere or other most weeks. But nowadays it's a mostly hideous experience. Airlines scrimp on everything, and the cat and mouse game you have to play with the likes of Ryanair are as bad as sitting in one of their planes.

I used to love British Midland (he said, getting all wistful for a moment.) 10-minute check in at LHR T1, nice seats, proper inflight service, one-class service that treated everyone properly. All gone now.

Amazon customer care is outstanding I've found. They'll even ring you if that's what you want.

As for most companies, their telephone and website interactions are more like a firewall to prevent you getting through once they have your money. The automated systems that having you pressing endless key numbers when all you want to do is speak to someone is proof of that. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what you press, the same person answers what ever reason it is you're calling for.

As for British Midland? That was a fantastic airline. I used to fly every week from Heathrow to Manchester with them in the late nineties and even on such a short journey you'd get a light meal and drink. It was usually a choice of sandwiches and I'd have glass of red wine too. Often I was offered another glass if there was time. Plus it wasn't packed to the rafters. I know it's all probably the reason they got merged and disappeared but it really was a pleasure flying then. I get on a Ryan air flight nowadays and loathe every minute of it

[winkywanky]

Yes, Amazon are excellent, and even eBay these days...they'll do callback too.

I guess the thing with both of those though, they are swimming in money (and probably not paying an appropriate amount of tax  )

[OakTree]

Yes, Amazon are excellent, and even eBay these days...they'll do callback too.

I guess the thing with both of those though, they are swimming in money (and probably not paying an appropriate amount of tax  )

I wouldn't want to work for them either. Pretty grim by the sounds of it. 

[winkywanky]

Well if it were in the call centre, that would involve moving to somewhere in the Far East, from what I remember of the accent  .

[paper7]

The majority of companies that have, or use, a call-centre just do not appreciate that they are 'the face of the company'. They do not realise that first impressions count. If the call-centre leaves a lot to be desired then so will the company.

[King Nuts]

Amazon customer care is outstanding I've found. They'll even ring you if that's what you want.

As for most companies, their telephone and website interactions are more like a firewall to prevent you getting through once they have your money. The automated systems that having you pressing endless key numbers when all you want to do is speak to someone is proof of that. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what you press, the same person answers what ever reason it is you're calling for.

You're right about that. I've tested this out many times when I've called the bank. I'll press any number at random and still get some half-wit who doesn't know whether I've lost my debit card or moved house or whatever.

I used to think that when one actually paid for the call, these companies were getting a slice of it. But as no-one actually pays for any individual calls any more, that can't be the case.

So why are they doing it? They know we all hate it.

Conversely, I needed to call my local water authority a few weeks back. 0345 number. A person actually answered first! God bless them.

[catweazle]

I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm in the middle of selling/ buying houses. My ( quite small) mortgage is portable, so I need to ask Halifax to 'port' it.

They have recorded messages saying as they are so busy, they can only speak to me if it's urgent.  Then the line hangs up on me.

I tried online chat ( it was a bot, not a person). That gave me a different number to call and said "select option 5, then option 3".

So I ring it, and.....

There's no option 5, it ends at 4.

Eventually l find yet another number, and get through to a person! He's Asian and l understand about one word in 30 due to his accent.

Finally got to a person (Irish, but at least understand him). He screws up the input, and says I can't afford it.

Finally he sees where he made an error and at last it's all going ahead.

[winkywanky]

That all sounds a bit stressful! 

[King Nuts]

Eventually l find yet another number, and get through to a person! He's Asian and l understand about one word in 30 due to his accent.

This is another odd thing. Why do banks and other companies with call centres hire people with strong accents or obvious speech defects? At least when you get a call centre in India, the person talking to you might sounds like they're down the bottom of a well, but they all have a good command of the language and can probably spell their own names.

[winkywanky]

Call centres are chosen for their cheap labour. The fact that you can barely understand them and you'll be put off from ever darkening their doorway again with your awkward problems, is merely an added bonus for the company involved.

[hornyguylondon]

Loved the cute scottish gals with First Direct but last time I called it was a guy - my voice turned very manly 

[hornyguylondon]

Call centres are chosen for their cheap labour. The fact that you can barely understand them and you'll be put off from ever darkening their doorway again with your awkward problems, is merely an added bonus for the company involved.

Are you in marketing 

[rickyponting]

It should be made law that if you are able to purchase something online that you are also able to apply for and recieve a refund online.

[redveee]

Had two train journies booked with two different train companies but using the same operator both times, one visit to London was for some SP action, the other to go to Excel. Had to cancel both. A refund from Greater Anglia came through two weeks after claiming refund and still waiting for my Great Western refund but that is partially down to the fact I had printed and collected the tickets before the journey date and had to send them back but I have had an email acknowledging my refund request and fingers crossed should get it by next week at the latest.

[lewisjones23]

You're right about that. I've tested this out many times when I've called the bank. I'll press any number at random and still get some half-wit who doesn't know whether I've lost my debit card or moved house or whatever.

I used to think that when one actually paid for the call, these companies were getting a slice of it. But as no-one actually pays for any individual calls any more, that can't be the case.

So why are they doing it? They know we all hate it.

Conversely, I needed to call my local water authority a few weeks back. 0345 number. A person actually answered first! God bless them.

The reason you have to select an option is so the company have data on how many calls have been received regarding a certain subject - the calls are almost certainly routed in to the same place no matter what you press.

They use this data to try and make efficiency savings - for example, X amount of calls a year about needing a replacement card costing X amount - easy fix is to put an option on the app to request one

[FLYING BLUE]

I think the Amazon website is the gold standard. It can handle multiple product and service options, tells you where your stuff is, and keeps an address book for you.

In comparison, BA's website, HSBC's, BT's etc are a fucking shambles.

And you're right about flying. I loved flying in the 90s, and had a job that meant I flew somewhere or other most weeks. But nowadays it's a mostly hideous experience. Airlines scrimp on everything, and the cat and mouse game you have to play with the likes of Ryanair are as bad as sitting in one of their planes.

I used to love British Midland (he said, getting all wistful for a moment.) 10-minute check in at LHR T1, nice seats, proper inflight service, one-class service that treated everyone properly. All gone now.

Sadly, BA are on a race track to the bottom and that rot started even when I was sitting in the right seat, at the pointy end,as a young FO with them.
Decisions to spend £Millions removing the good old BA logo's and painting the aircraft tails  in hideous 'multicultural' designs that looked as though they had been done by a 5 year old.
Some  will criticise ex CEO, Willie Walsh but at least, in his tenure, BA was in profit once more (which is what he was paid to do) BUT, at what cost?

With the exception of the Exec Club, BA are sadly now better than any other airline.

[FLYING BLUE]

With the exception of the Exec Club, BA are sadly NO better than any other airline.

Sorry, the last line of my post, should read as above but I was too late to edit
FB

[Boristheboy]

No. Call handlers in offices work usually on desktop PC’s. Typically those businesses won’t have a store cupboard full of laptops just in case a “once in a century” global event happens and all the staff are required to work from home. Many/most laptops are made in China, along with the internal parts, and with lockdown there, there is now a global shortage.

Consequently businesses who usually operate their call centres from offices are finding it very difficult to transfer their agents to home working. I write from experience 

Interesting you should day that, my company managed to acquire over fifty laptops within less than a week to enable our call handlers to operate from home. We were entirely office based before that.

[willie loman]

Interesting you should day that, my company managed to acquire over fifty laptops within less than a week to enable our call handlers to operate from home. We were entirely office based before that.

Most of the big companies seemed to source laptops quickly enough.

[Colston36]

I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm in the middle of selling/ buying houses. My ( quite small) mortgage is portable, so I need to ask Halifax to 'port' it.

They have recorded messages saying as they are so busy, they can only speak to me if it's urgent.  Then the line hangs up on me.

I tried online chat ( it was a bot, not a person). That gave me a different number to call and said "select option 5, then option 3".

So I ring it, and.....

There's no option 5, it ends at 4.

Eventually l find yet another number, and get through to a person! He's Asian and l understand about one word in 30 due to his accent.

Finally got to a person (Irish, but at least understand him). He screws up the input, and says I can't afford it.

Finally he sees where he made an error and at last it's all going ahead.

Halifax make me want to lose the will to live. My other bank, First Direct - well, I've just given up because the maze of passwords.

But nobody beats Branson's fuck-ups. For two weeks my PA has been insulted by random Virgin idiots while trying to  get a new router ... net result she finds it almost impossible to help me.