Who’s listening to you (not just your searches, grunts, and sex words.

[Marmalade]

As an iPhone user have you deactivated Siri?

We’ve had plenty of threads warning Google, Facebook, and other apps collect data “to help you find things” or “connect you to people” or “suggest things you might like” that your friends family and people you barely know would also be delighted to hear. But what about passive listening?

The scandals with Alexa are well-known, but Apple’s low key “assistant” less so.

Here’s the story ...

External Link/Members Only

So even if your phone is in sleep mode, Siri can be listening in case it thinks you say something it likes to listen out for.

Google does this by embedded pixels in millions of webpages so it knows your ‘interests’, even if it wipes from the personal info you can see. It then sells that information. Siri and Alexa monitor sound passively. Remember also that voice recognition technology is now so common that even the tax office uses it.

I personally decided ages ago that Siri was the most useless piece of junk ever added to an iPhone. I disabled it and also switch off a phone completely before a punt anyway, irrespective of whether it’s a smartphone. Others might like to review the levels of security they are comfortable with (or take the ‘nothing to hide approach’ as some do).

I’m very old school on these things. Techno only when necessary. Others find the use of technology worth the risk. Either way, is it worth highlighting?

[Yankee21]

Reads like a pissed off contractor to me.

[Marmalade]

Reads like a pissed off contractor to me.

Meaning?

[bonapati]

Reads like a pissed off contractor to me.

.. and YOU sound like (are) a leech!

[bearcat69]

After the likes of the Cambridge Analytica case and what Edward Snowden revealed, this really doesn't surprise me, and I wouldn't be surprised if Google Assistant 'accidentally' listens in on private conversations too... Why on earth people feel the need to talk to there phones is something I've never really understood personally... it's all presented under the guise of making our lives easier and more connected I suppose... but I would always strongly advise everybody to switch off anything of that nature on their phones. Punter or not, your personal data is a more valuable commodity to companies than oil these days, so it's pretty foolish IMO to just freely give it away in exchange for some gimmicky feature.

[Colston36]

As an iPhone user have you deactivated Siri?

We’ve had plenty of threads warning Google, Facebook, and other apps collect data “to help you find things” or “connect you to people” or “suggest things you might like” that your friends family and people you barely know would also be delighted to hear. But what about passive listening?

The scandals with Alexa are well-known, but Apple’s low key “assistant” less so.


Here’s the story ...

External Link/Members Only

So even if your phone is in sleep mode, Siri can be listening in case it thinks you say something it likes to listen out for.

Google does this by embedded pixels in millions of webpages so it knows your ‘interests’, even if it wipes from the personal info you can see. It then sells that information. Siri and Alexa monitor sound passively. Remember also that voice recognition technology is now so common that even the tax office uses it.

I personally decided ages ago that Siri was the most useless piece of junk ever added to an iPhone. I disabled it and also switch off a phone completely before a punt anyway, irrespective of whether it’s a smartphone. Others might like to review the levels of security they are comfortable with (or take the ‘nothing to hide approach’ as some do).

I’m very old school on these things. Techno only when necessary. Others find the use of technology worth the risk. Either way, is it worth highlighting?

I TOTALLY agree with your implicit concerns.

When not thinking about/doing sex or working I worry and sometimes write about the horrifying implications of these "assistants". They are the friendly, helpful route to some genuine horrors

These start with people not thinking or doing things for themselves. Watch what is happening already in China where people are being rewarded or punished for thinking the way the state wants. In fact 1984 is on its way.

And one thing you can be sure of: no site like this will ever exist when it arrives. Artificial intelligence leads to genuine stupidity - and dictatorship

[TheMurloc]

So, Marmalade, how does a non tech savvy person disable Siri?

[bonapati]

So, Marmalade, how does a non tech savvy person disable Siri?

Go to “Settings” select “Siri & Search” turn all green toggles off. Done.

[bonapati]

Very interesting topic, I couldn’t agree more devices have become more intrusive - it’s not just Siri.  If try you to set Alexa on to have a voice battle with Siri you’d be surprised what you get. Or better your Siri and someone else’s phone.

Before every punt my phone etiquette is (call me paranoid if you like)
1. If turn it off anyone calling will get a unavailable message which can amount explaining later where I was - so I but it in silent with vibration on
2. Siri is always off - I’m not that lazy
3. Speech to text is always disabled
4. I reset my keyboard dictionary regularly so if texting etc SP names or UKP specific words are not mistakenly typed.
5. Location setting always turn of in case I take photo in the wrong location - more explanation
6. Always double check I’m not accidentally sharing my location with “anyone”
7. I always have “Hand off” off so my desktop and iPads don’t pick up content I’ve read on my phone. This is also a dangerous function.
8. Never log in to google maps to use it - never log on to google period! More dangerous than Siri.
9. Always clear and “Map” searches
10. Always turn off Bluetooth - if your phone profile is in your real name an SP or next punter near (as he passes by) could see nearby phones. Even worse a porn vid plays on a connected car or home speaker. This is is a good tip to find out how many SPs are in the flat or how many phones if you are lucky you’ll pick up real names
11. Always make sure i haven’t accidentally made an unwanted AW screenshot (iPhone X) check your screenshot album regularly
12. Turn off speed dial
13. share analytics is always off
14. Always make sure the last thing copied on my phone is no a weird phone number.

[tesla]

Very interesting topic, I couldn’t agree more devices have become more intrusive - it’s not just Siri.  If try you to set Alexa on to have a voice battle with Siri you’d be surprised what you get. Or better your Siri and someone else’s phone.

Before every punt my phone etiquette is (call me paranoid if you like)
1. If turn it off anyone calling will get a unavailable message which can amount explaining later where I was - so I but it in silent with vibration on
2. Siri is always off - I’m not that lazy
3. Speech to text is always disabled
4. I reset my keyboard dictionary regularly so if texting etc SP names or UKP specific words are not mistakenly typed.
5. Location setting always turn of in case I take photo in the wrong location - more explanation
6. Always double check I’m not accidentally sharing my location with “anyone”
7. I always have “Hand off” off so my desktop and iPads don’t pick up content I’ve read on my phone. This is also a dangerous function.
8. Never log in to google maps to use it - never log on to google period! More dangerous than Siri.
9. Always clear and “Map” searches
10. Always turn off Bluetooth - if your phone profile is in your real name an SP or next punter near (as he passes by) could see nearby phones. Even worse a porn vid plays on a connected car or home speaker. This is is a good tip to find out how many SPs are in the flat or how many phones if you are lucky you’ll pick up real names
11. Always make sure i haven’t accidentally made an unwanted AW screenshot (iPhone X) check your screenshot album regularly
12. Turn off speed dial
13. share analytics is always off
14. Always make sure the last thing copied on my phone is no a weird phone number.

or you could just use a basic phone, makes calls and texts only

[Silver Birch]

or you could just use a basic phone, makes calls and texts only

I use a very basic handset (not a smartphone) that has never been connected to any of my internet or email accounts. Whilst I hope this keeps me anonymous, I do think it screams PUNTING PHONE when I pull it out of my pocket! 

[Hobbit]

First of all, I don't see how this is related to punting and this should be discussed on a technical forum and not a punting one.

I use Siri all the time and it is absolutely amazing and has improved so much over the years. Ios-13 is being released in September and Siri will be completely different and will be a more human-like voice. It also will have full voice control on iPhones giving people the ability to control their phones completely by their voice. This may scare the shit out of you but not everyone and certainly not me.

I believe Siri is not always recording every word spoken, it is only listening out for the "Hey Siri" command and I would imagine that is being processed locally on the phone itself and not being recorded. Overall, I think you're being paranoid. 

[Marmalade]

After the likes of the Cambridge Analytica case and what Edward Snowden revealed, this really doesn't surprise me, and I wouldn't be surprised if Google Assistant 'accidentally' listens in on private conversations too... Why on earth people feel the need to talk to there phones is something I've never really understood personally... it's all presented under the guise of making our lives easier and more connected I suppose... but I would always strongly advise everybody to switch off anything of that nature on their phones. Punter or not, your personal data is a more valuable commodity to companies than oil these days, so it's pretty foolish IMO to just freely give it away in exchange for some gimmicky feature.

Indeed. (I’ve already been PM’d on Siri’s unwanted intrusions). It’s more hidden in iOS12 but I googled and several places where it needs to be disabled. I can’t vouch for them being comprehensive so I’d suggest doing a quick research for anyone who wants to turn it off ‘completely’. Or just switch the whole phone off as I do for a punt (wouldn’t stop GCHQ tracking but should present Siri from listening to any key words you might utter during sex.

If you have a suspicious OH some of its data is user-searchable.

Personal security/privacy is a very personal thing. Some people find it too useful to dispense with. Others, especially with an OH and have maybe kept up to date with Snowden and Cambridge Analytica, are likely to be more cautious. Keeping your punting private has different connotations for different people.

For non-techies thee was a hilarious moment on tv once where an abolitionist was getting agitated about the vast numbers involved in prostitution who were exploited. Her ‘evidence’ was something like, “you only have to look on google and you are swamped with them, it’s everywhere!!” At that point the techies on the panel laughed, pointing out she got lots of search results for it because she was always searching for it, so  google optimised her search result to tell her more stories about prostitution!!!

Sobif you search for things you’re more likely to be offered them. Amazon frequently offers me salacious stuff I don’t want simply as I’ve searched out of curiosity. Alexa and Siri take this to new levels by listening to what you say whether you intend them to or not. For instance, in Germany, you could say, “Hey Siri, find me a brothel”. (I haven’t tried this, but Google will happily find you brothels abroad.) While Google openly records your search results, Siri and Alexa record and pass on info without telling you and without you asking them to. Simples.

Ot has been argued that Mumsnet outers will lap up this info and try to use it to out hubbies. So just switch the damn things off if you’re concerned.

[bonapati]

or you could just use a basic phone, makes calls and texts only

I do actually. Just saying

[Marmalade]

I do actually. Just saying

Very wise. I admit I often use a smartphone, but ruthlessly modified. I like it for maps to the location and temporarily to keep a picture from the profile to prove any bait and switch. Also handy for planB's and and making brief notes immediately afterwards. But if I am going to what strikes me as a 'dodgy' punt or dodgy location, I just use paper and pencil.

There's no one size fits all IMO. For the non-technical person, especially with much to lose if outed to a wife for instance, a basic phone as you mention is the easiest choice and safest option (also my choice if punting in 'dangerous' areas abroad as not worth stealing).

What might be a good idea is a list of sim-free basic smartphones for people who want a punting phone with those basic options... 

[TheMurloc]

Go to “Settings” select “Siri & Search” turn all green toggles off. Done.

Sorted but now my CarPlay stereo doesn’t work 😢

[Marmalade]

Sorted but now my CarPlay stereo doesn’t work 😢

Unlucky. CarPlay uses Siri control.

[heathen666]

All SP should provide a lead lined box to put your phone in while punting.. problem solved 

[bonapati]

Sorted but now my CarPlay stereo doesn’t work 😢

Didn’t think you were dogging 😉

[tantric talents]

Some very useful points brought up in this thread. Although I have a couple of punting phones I sometimes use my iPhone for playing my music during a punt.
Gonna start switching Siri off regularly now...

[NelsonH]

Lead boxes are NOT required. Nothing nuclear about them.

 Wrapping in cooking-foil would do nicely.

[django0700]

after the missus by some error looked at my google map history (didn't even know it did that) and asked a few awkward questions (managed to BS my way through) I now use a separate punting phone which is only turned on when I am punting...I also turn of my primary phone since i don't know how sneaky google and apple can be,..

[bonapati]

after the missus by some error looked at my google map history (didn't even know it did that) and asked a few awkward questions (managed to BS my way through) I now use a separate punting phone which is only turned on when I am punting...I also turn of my primary phone since i don't know how sneaky google and apple can be,..

Logout of iCloud on all devices too!

[winkywanky]

Lead boxes are NOT required. Nothing nuclear about them.

 Wrapping in cooking-foil would do nicely.

True, Faraday Cage effect 

[winkywanky]

Although if you run out of condoms, don't try wrapping aluminium foil around your dick, it doesn't work.

[Marmalade]

It needs some work to find out how much gets google-synced between devices. My own settings work for me but if you have non-private devices some research is probably in order. As far as I know, Apple syncs stuff through iCloud, accessible in Settings. Most browsers offer optional syncing using their own cloud. Firefox is reasonably straightforward and security-minded if you need sync for some stuff. Alternatively you can ‘send’ stuff to another device using the iPhone share button.

I basically assume Google collects everything it can and without telling me or you most of it. If you try to use the long-winded opt out settings fwiw they will bug you shortly afterwards to review them. Cookies are then inserted in webpages to see things based on your usage (at considerable profit to Google and Google Analytics). Unfortunately they do still have the most efficient search and maps, except in terms of security. Bing and Apple are many streets behind.

It’s all about benefits vs risks. Risk of your o/h finding out is different to your boss finding out (though closely related) and different again if you are in a sensitive job such as a journalist, or heading a company potentially targeted by cyber espionage, or of course if you are engaged in any sort criminal activity such as smoking hash.

Off the top of my head :-
Privacy can be breached by
Stupidity (most common, like people who leave a trail, even on UKP)
Nosiness (eg wife)
Hacking (devices or your router / wifi), occasionally even by a mad prοssie
Cybercriminals
Stolen passwords (your wife, but also thousands of passwords are breached daily and sold — usually with little repercussion except spam, eg porn in your inbox; you can register your email addresses for free notification after-the-fact using — and recommended — haveibeenpawned)
Your ISP
Any company with govt access keys.

Most people will never have a problem. Thousands of people punt every day without ever having any hassle. Security arrangements are there to be proportionate to risk, the most common risk it seems being your wifey (but don’t forget teenage children who are often shit hot at technology!)

[Marmalade]

Although if you run out of condoms, don't try wrapping aluminium foil around your dick, it doesn't work.

Are you talking from experience? 

[winkywanky]

Yes, it was a hot day and my cock came out looking like an oven-ready chicken, basted in her juices 

[tantric talents]

Yes, it was a hot day and my cock came out looking like an oven-ready chicken, basted in her juices 

I'm sure there's a spit roast joke in here somewhere to be articulated.
It has been a long hot day.. 

[bearcat69]

To those basically saying don't be paranoid, look fair point, but maybe actually read up on the story... The Apple whistleblower basically said that about 1% of interactions with Siri are sent to third party contractors for quality control purposes. It also explains how Siri is often accidentally activated by saying words such as "Syria", or zip sounds, or by using the Apple watch in certain ways. What the whistleblower expressed concern about was these third party contractors could essentially be anybody, and are not properly vetted at all. So essentially Apple are allowing pretty much just random whoever the fucks listen to your private and easily identifiable conversations. So, look, if that's not something you feel is worth worrying about, then fair enough, it probably isn't worth caring about. But to not see why the privacy concern is raised is certainly interesting to say the least.

[Marmalade]

To those basically saying don't be paranoid, look fair point, but maybe actually read up on the story... The Apple whistleblower basically said that about 1% of interactions with Siri are sent to third party contractors for quality control purposes. It also explains how Siri is often accidentally activated by saying words such as "Syria", or zip sounds, or by using the Apple watch in certain ways. What the whistleblower expressed concern about was these third party contractors could essentially be anybody, and are not properly vetted at all. So essentially Apple are allowing pretty much just random whoever the fucks listen to your private and easily identifiable conversations. So, look, if that's not something you feel is worth worrying about, then fair enough, it probably isn't worth caring about. But to not see why the privacy concern is raised is certainly interesting to say the least.

A very balanced summary. 

Do you remember the days when Google was considered anti-establishment?  Then the warnings started to appear. By the time the whistleblowers get the info into mainstream it has progressed to a point where anti-Google security measures are a major business.

In the days of Steve Jobs I had a reasonable amount of respect for Apple, in spite of their prurient attitude. That has changed. They’ve fallen way behind in technology and yet prices escalate to the point where an iPhone is almost a fashion accessory and an Apple case or charging cable the same price as a decent basic punting phone. They have lost the Steve Jobs ethos. They are simply trying to make money in any way they can in a highly competitive market.

I disabled Siri long ago after repeatedly telling it to go fuck itself. But it gains market share and data collection by making itself ‘useful’ and burying itself in the settings. Like the punter who mentioned he likes it for CarPlay, they get you addicted to increase the quantity and viability of data held. I also delete all unknown 3rd party ‘friendly’ apps that insist I sign up and log in when in fact the functionality clearly does not require internet access.

If you go to the USA new laws require you to unlock any encrypted apps or data for border control if asked. And that is a country where punting is mostly illegal. (The bigger picture is that data is used to ‘weaponise’ propaganda and control things like voting intentions or support for military ventures, though that is outside the present topic).

Your data is quite probably the future world currency.

[Marmalade]

Practical suggestion for any highly worried punters with potentially suspicious O/H but who wants to se the internet normally: Carry a laptop. Install Tails on a memory stick.

[The Outsider]

Just this weekend I discovered my iPhone is offering several "Suggested Shortcuts" under Siri and Search.  It suggests I send an email to a particular person, drive to particular place using Waze and so on.  It has stored in full several recent emails, texts and WhatsApp messages so I can easily resend them. It's basically a list of things I've done on the phone in the last week or so since I updated to the latest version of IOS. 

I've managed to disable most of it, but some suggestions are still showing.  I've always had Siri disabled, or so I thought.  Something has changed since the last update. 

I don't use this phone for punting purposes, but I still don't want it recording every action I make so it can be easily repeated. 

Is there a way to universally disable this, or do I need to toggle on every option? Also, does anyone know how to delete the current suggestions? I read you can swipe left and then delete, but that's not working. 

[Marmalade]

I’ve gutted mine till Siri took a hike; but I couldn’t tell you all the steps I did. I googled several pages of information and tried stuff as I went along. There’s not even an on/off switch for it on the version I use but there were still several places buried in settings that it needed kicked. I can only suggest google for the info (the standard Apple info didn't do that much).

Siri is like living with your mother.

[Silver Birch]

Just this weekend I discovered my iPhone is offering several "Suggested Shortcuts" under Siri and Search.  It suggests I send an email to a particular person, drive to particular place using Waze and so on.  It has stored in full several recent emails, texts and WhatsApp messages so I can easily resend them. It's basically a list of things I've done on the phone in the last week or so since I updated to the latest version of IOS. 

I would consider myself reasonably techie, but the smartphone developers are always one step ahead. One minute you are in control, the next minute an algorithm has changed and we have probably unwittingly agreed to its new way of tracking 

[The Outsider]

I’ve gutted mine till Siri took a hike; but I couldn’t tell you all the steps I did. I googled several pages of information and tried stuff as I went along. There’s not even an on/off switch for it on the version I use but there were still several places buried in settings that it needed kicked. I can only suggest google for the info (the standard Apple info didn't do that much).

Siri is like living with your mother.

  I think I've stopped the worst of it.  There's no punting info on there, but still the occasional bit of civvy correspondence I wouldn't want available my nearest and dearest. 

I would consider myself reasonably techie, but the smartphone developers are always one step ahead. One minute you are in control, the next minute an algorithm has changed and we have probably unwittingly agreed to its new way of tracking 

This seems to have just happened because all the "suggestions" were based on activity in the last few days.  I've checked my punting phone which is an older iPhone with an earlier version of iOS installed and it's still fine.