Criminalising the punter question

[Ben4454]

Looking to bounce some knowledge off the other members of the board. I know this subject has been done to death here but it seems criminalising the punter works on paper but will not work on real life effectively. Labour may not come into power this year but eventually labour will come back into power. Women tend to fight for something until it is made so I do not see this politician backing down from what she wants - even if it means making up the figures and numbers to get what she wants in her vendetta against punters. There however seems to be very grey areas in how this could be policed.

For example - Punter is stopped by police because they suspect he was seeing a prostitute and paying her for sex. Punter says no he was paying her for her time and anything which happened during that time was with consenting adults. The police then say you saw a prostitute and discussed services so you are guilty. Punter then shows them a document on adultwork suggesting that he e-mailed the prossie telling her he was paying for time and not any services... maybe it will go to court and maybe the punter will be guilty..

Now what about the porn industry ? Will the porn industry be outlawed as well because technically you're paying a girl to perform on camera and do these services. If porn is allowed then where is the line? Will the government outlaw amatuar porn making between pornstars? Will they regulate the porn industry and only declare that a certain type of production has to happen for it to be lawful? A punter could easily fix up a camera and record the session and then say he wasn't paying for sex he was making a movie ?

Also - what about punters who use escorts for the sole purpose of having dinner/ seeing a movie and do not do anything sexual with the prossie? How could this all be enforced unless there is a bunch of police officers using binoculars spying on the couple in the bedroom or using police stings. I see a future where their main targets will be police stings and you will be in the room with them and they will try and bait you into discussing services for price.

One other thing - when I was 18 I had a girlfriend and she once said to me if you buy me this perfume I will give you amazing head tonight - would this technically count as paying for services? lol

[smiths]

Looking to bounce some knowledge off the other members of the board. I know this subject has been done to death here but it seems criminalising the punter works on paper but will not work on real life effectively. Labour may not come into power this year but eventually labour will come back into power. Women tend to fight for something until it is made so I do not see this politician backing down from what she wants - even if it means making up the figures and numbers to get what she wants in her vendetta against punters. There however seems to be very grey areas in how this could be policed.

For example - Punter is stopped by police because they suspect he was seeing a prostitute and paying her for sex. Punter says no he was paying her for her time and anything which happened during that time was with consenting adults. The police then say you saw a prostitute and discussed services so you are guilty. Punter then shows them a document on adultwork suggesting that he e-mailed the prossie telling her he was paying for time and not any services... maybe it will go to court and maybe the punter will be guilty..

Now what about the porn industry ? Will the porn industry be outlawed as well because technically you're paying a girl to perform on camera and do these services. If porn is allowed then where is the line? Will the government outlaw amatuar porn making between pornstars? Will they regulate the porn industry and only declare that a certain type of production has to happen for it to be lawful? A punter could easily fix up a camera and record the session and then say he wasn't paying for sex he was making a movie ?

Also - what about punters who use escorts for the sole purpose of having dinner/ seeing a movie and do not do anything sexual with the prossie? How could this all be enforced unless there is a bunch of police officers using binoculars spying on the couple in the bedroom or using police stings. I see a future where their main targets will be police stings and you will be in the room with them and they will try and bait you into discussing services for price.

One other thing - when I was 18 I had a girlfriend and she once said to me if you buy me this perfume I will give you amazing head tonight - would this technically count as paying for services? lol

Firstly Harriet Harridan used unproven figures of 4000 trafficked for sex women to help get her coercion law through in 2009/10 so will use whatever she can to achieve her goal of criminalising all punters here. Its irrelevant to her what the facts are. For her and her femi-nazi ilk its a crusade. Operations Pentameters 1 and 2 that looked for trafficked women found nowhere near 4000, more like 400 and many of them didn't want rescuing leading to few convictions that I heard about.

As brothels and the street scene prove having a law is one thing, the police deciding to enforce it can be another. Clearly having a law the police could wheel out when it suited them would be bad news for punters, but it in no way means it will be enforced a lot or much. Apart from anything else to catch a punter punting indoors with an Indie would cost a lot of money and man hours, and only last week I read the police nationwide were facing budget cuts so where would this money come from. The answer is it wouldn't come from anywhere as the primary purpose of a law criminalising punters is to scare us off punting in the first place, not to nick up though in some areas where the top cops are bible bashers they might launch purges from time to time. So the hope would be to scare off as many of us as possible and I would imagine it would scare off some punters who thought the risk wasn't worth taking.

The I only paid for her time line would get tested in court at some stage and a jury would decide if it were believable that the guy had contacted what might be a known to the police WG just to talk. Plus as the WG wouldn't be breaking the law she might happily say yes he did want sex and I agreed to offer him it for such and such a cost thereby dropping the punter in it, who knows how many WGs might do this, it ultimately wouldn't be in their interests to do so though of course.

No idea about how porn would be viewed but at present porn actors aren't classed as prostitutes, but are sex workers so there COULD be a loophole there but eventually it might get closed.

As has been posted by me and others many times before whatever laws were passed prostitution cant be stopped, at least not until we are monitored 24/7, the result of criminalising punters would maybe mean less punters but for those who continue to punt and WGs it would mean it being less safe as it would be driven further underground.

[JV547845]

It's the Swedish model and it's been widely discredited.  Good point re porn - there's a family guy joke about filming your session with a hooker and it's legal.

The police aren't really interested in sting operations for harmless non crimes with trivial punishments, so I just think they can't prove what goes on between closed doors.  We can all invent some daft dark but legal kink, like eating strawberries off each other's, holding hands, enjoying a glass of wine, going for a long walk beside the sea, or paying a WG for a third rate massage.  Then all just pretend customer and specialised service provider really fancied each other in, and couldn't help having sex, right there and then.  It's no different to paying to view a property to let or buy, then ending up fucking a hot young fit estate agent hard and nasty over someone else's bed, for being the scum of the earth.  And she was in to that too, your honour! 

I've just saved punting from Harriet Harmen, made estate agent's lives a lot more awkward and spawned a new fantasy for myself, all in one night too.  You can all say thankyou by going down on your local hooker.

[Jeff_withpetersen]

The big question ... did you get amazing head in exchange for the perfume?

[Ben4454]

I do not agree at all with what she is trying to do. Simply paying a girl for sex behind closed doors not hurting anyone between two consenting adults should not put me in the criminal category alongside those who steal, commit assault and murder. I am sure none of us here would ever punt with a girl who is being forced by a pimp to punt. What she does not realise is this will not stop punters. It may scare a few but a lot of guys will continue punting. Now it is not illegal for a woman to sell sex so of course just makes it even easier for those pimps to advertise the women. - but now guys will not give out any information about where they live etc which drives it as smiths has said underground and even more dangerous for those who are being pimped and forced.

What needs to be done is further investigations to find out the groups who are bringing women overseas and having them pimped. In my entire punting career I only ever came across one walkup in London where I suspected the girl was being pimped and forced. i walked away when I noticed she had a black eye which might have been a good sign and her scared attitude. That is one girl in over 10 years of my punting. The majority of women I am sure on adultwork are there by choice and not because they're being forced.

Perhaps even by looking at it another way you can take the demand away by having the selling of sex regulated and anyone who punts with a working girl who does not have a license will be prosecuted. The difficulty will be in licensing a working girl in a way which does not bring her too much embarrasment.

She needs to seriously re-think on her strategies of combating pimped and forced women. Perhaps more money put into the police unit which investigates these kinds of crimes. Of course with the theory given above I am sure all of this is just a stunt to get her name on paper.

[Herges Adventures]

The Police are facing such extensive cuts 2015 - 2010 that will effectively make this meaningless, like enforcing use of a mobile phone whilst driving i.e act the twat at the most inopportune time, then expect to get collared, otherwise it continues as before

[smiths]

I do not agree at all with what she is trying to do. Simply paying a girl for sex behind closed doors not hurting anyone between two consenting adults should not put me in the criminal category alongside those who steal, commit assault and murder. I am sure none of us here would ever punt with a girl who is being forced by a pimp to punt. What she does not realise is this will not stop punters. It may scare a few but a lot of guys will continue punting. Now it is not illegal for a woman to sell sex so of course just makes it even easier for those pimps to advertise the women. - but now guys will not give out any information about where they live etc which drives it as smiths has said underground and even more dangerous for those who are being pimped and forced.

What needs to be done is further investigations to find out the groups who are bringing women overseas and having them pimped. In my entire punting career I only ever came across one walkup in London where I suspected the girl was being pimped and forced. i walked away when I noticed she had a black eye which might have been a good sign and her scared attitude. That is one girl in over 10 years of my punting. The majority of women I am sure on adultwork are there by choice and not because they're being forced.

Perhaps even by looking at it another way you can take the demand away by having the selling of sex regulated and anyone who punts with a working girl who does not have a license will be prosecuted. The difficulty will be in licensing a working girl in a way which does not bring her too much embarrasment.

She needs to seriously re-think on her strategies of combating pimped and forced women. Perhaps more money put into the police unit which investigates these kinds of crimes. Of course with the theory given above I am sure all of this is just a stunt to get her name on paper.

I think Harridan fully realises some punters will still punt and that punting will be driven further underground thus making it potentially more dangerous for some WGs, she just doesn't care about that, such WGs are acceptable to her collateral damage in my view. For Harridan and her ilk its a crusade, facts and common sense aren't relevant to her and them.

[JV547845]

For Harridan and her ilk its a crusade, facts and common sense aren't relevant to her and them.

I don't even think she believes in the cause herself.  I just think she's achieved so little so far in her life, this is an easy win for her, she's so desperate for a legacy, any achievement at all right or wrong she can point her grand children to, solely as a thing she did, that she's just picked the soft target of criminalising punters.

It's funny how few prominent female tories are half as anti punting as Hariet.  Have the male tories all nudged the in the ribs not to ban an obvious perc of success and incentive for a healthy inclusive economy?

[Max Pleasure]

There are three pages of escorts on AW listed for N Ireland, so it will be interesting to see if listings and feedback reduce after 1st June when the new law comes into effect.  As for the rest of Britain, I just don't see the police or their commissioners making this a priority, and not while massage parlours are still tolerated in some areas.  The priority will I guess continue to be on street walkers and responding to complaints and allegations regarding underage and vulnerable girls.  My bet is that this law will not make the statute books on the mainland in the next 5 years, there will be too many other problems.

[charming_red]

Emailing Harriet a link to AW might give her a dose of reality that this is a thriving business and how out of touch she is.

[spkmstr48]

Politicians, why can't they all just sod off and leave us alone.

Don't believe it's a good idea to allow anyone who wants to be a politician to actually be one.

Generally questionable motives.

God, I'm a cynic, doesn't make me wrong though.

What's the other phrase, oh yes.

Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me.

[Qwerty]

Emailing Harriet a link to AW might give her a dose of reality that this is a thriving business and how out of touch she is.

Yeah, that's really sensible - it's not like Home Secretary Harman, having got her wicked way with the law, would instruct the police to focus on users of a site that had been brought to her attention...

[dork]

Does anyone have a link for Harriet? I've search reviews but no result so far

[nigel4498]

Does anyone have a link for Harriet? I've search reviews but no result so far

Living up to your name then Dork.

[Ben4454]

I get the impression perhaps her husband was on adultwork and saw Cindy and now she has a vendetta against us.

[dork]

Living up to your name then Dork.

I'm offended Nigel. Whats not to love about Harriet. She's so cute

[nigel4498]

No offence meant Dork, it's all tongue in cheek.

[dork]

Nigel you do realise it's down to you or me to toftt - one of us is going to have to review Harriet

[nigel4498]

Think I'll pass on that one.

[spkmstr48]

Nigel you do realise it's down to you or me to toftt - one of us is going to have to review Harriet

Go for it, dork, write a review 

[dork]

Go for it, dork, write a review 

No problem spkmstr48 - I'll put it together soon but in the meantime, just remember, she's a gem, treat her well

[dork]

sorry, I may have derailed the thread, unintentional

[spkmstr48]

sorry, I may have derailed the thread, unintentional

It's worth it, desperately trying not to laugh and have the wife wake up and ask what's so funny!

[myothernameis]

There are three pages of escorts on AW listed for N Ireland, so it will be interesting to see if listings and feedback reduce after 1st June when the new law comes into effect.  As for the rest of Britain, I just don't see the police or their commissioners making this a priority, and not while massage parlours are still tolerated in some areas.  The priority will I guess continue to be on street walkers and responding to complaints and allegations regarding underage and vulnerable girls.  My bet is that this law will not make the statute books on the mainland in the next 5 years, there will be too many other problems.

If I was a punter, I would be suspicious of any new profiles in northern Ireland, especially if the police are behind the profiles; the minute you book the escort, and walk through her door, your instantly in trouble, and if it becomes law in the uk, any new profiles will be looked at with contempt

[myothernameis]

one of us is going to have to review Harriet

I would pay good money to see this review

[dork]

I would pay good money to see this review

if you can link me to her profile ? I don't get it ..... what do you guys have against Harriet? I know I'm prone to EAS but please!!! She's the best!

[NIK]

Looking to bounce some knowledge off the other members of the board. I know this subject has been done to death here but it seems criminalising the punter works on paper but will not work on real life effectively. Labour may not come into power this year but eventually labour will come back into power. Women tend to fight for something until it is made so I do not see this politician backing down from what she wants - even if it means making up the figures and numbers to get what she wants in her vendetta against punters. There however seems to be very grey areas in how this could be policed.

For example - Punter is stopped by police because they suspect he was seeing a prostitute and paying her for sex. Punter says no he was paying her for her time and anything which happened during that time was with consenting adults. The police then say you saw a prostitute and discussed services so you are guilty. Punter then shows them a document on adultwork suggesting that he e-mailed the prossie telling her he was paying for time and not any services... maybe it will go to court and maybe the punter will be guilty..

Now what about the porn industry ? Will the porn industry be outlawed as well because technically you're paying a girl to perform on camera and do these services. If porn is allowed then where is the line? Will the government outlaw amatuar porn making between pornstars? Will they regulate the porn industry and only declare that a certain type of production has to happen for it to be lawful? A punter could easily fix up a camera and record the session and then say he wasn't paying for sex he was making a movie ?

Also - what about punters who use escorts for the sole purpose of having dinner/ seeing a movie and do not do anything sexual with the prossie? How could this all be enforced unless there is a bunch of police officers using binoculars spying on the couple in the bedroom or using police stings. I see a future where their main targets will be police stings and you will be in the room with them and they will try and bait you into discussing services for price.

One other thing - when I was 18 I had a girlfriend and she once said to me if you buy me this perfume I will give you amazing head tonight - would this technically count as paying for services? lol

Yeah, in some people's scaremongering world you'd get arrested for that.   

[the fitter]

If I was a punter, I would be suspicious of any new profiles in northern Ireland, especially if the police are behind the profiles; the minute you book the escort, and walk through her door, your instantly in trouble, and if it becomes law in the uk, any new profiles will be looked at with contempt

Especially if the police are behind the profiles.Entrapment not allowed in this country.

[the fitter]

If I was a punter, I would be suspicious of any new profiles in northern Ireland, especially if the police are behind the profiles; the minute you book the escort, and walk through her door, your instantly in trouble, and if it becomes law in the uk, any new profiles will be looked at with contempt

Entrapment not allowed in this country.

[the fitter]

Made a mess of that, but what I am trying to say is entrapment is not allowed in this country.

[Punting Valley]

Entrapment not allowed in this country.

If 1)Labour gets majority and 2) harman is still MP/not retired and 3) her nordic model bill doesn't get shut down like the amendment to the modern slavery bill last year, then I am sure they have a way to add a clause to allow entrapment for the specific offence.

Of course I don't see labour getting a majority any soon and by the time they get it harman will be in her 70s and probably retired. And such nordic model  style amendment was shut down previously so I don't see how it will pass the commons in the future

[the fitter]

I hope not, entrapment is allowed in the U.S. but I don't think it's ever been applied here, and I think there would have to be a change in the law, to allow this. Criminalising the punter, I don't think would be a big enough issue to change this.

[Punting Valley]

I hope not, entrapment is allowed in the U.S. but I don't think it's ever been applied here, and I think there would have to be a change in the law, to allow this. Criminalising the punter, I don't think would be a big enough issue to change this.

Of course no citizen wants it. But the government could use it as a slippery slope to start introducing entrapment for other offence too, essentially introducing entrapment to the UK. Entrapping punters to save girls from trafficking, doesnt that sound like a sensational headline? Who would dare to oppose preventing human trafficking? Once people accepted that they can then expand it to other areas. 

After all parliamentary supremacy in the UK means the government can legislate whatever the hell they want, we the common people are only here to obey