Julie Bindel in 'Daily Telegraph'

[S.X. MacHine]

Huge screed in the Telegraph today equating escorting with pimping/trafficking/child prostitution, in other words, all the usual wholly inaccurate cliches they use to discredit our legitimate hobby.
By giving a platform to the hideous feminist in chief, Julie Bindel, the 'Torygraph' has gone beyond my limit of toleration. If I want to read Bindels bigoted, feminist crap, I can read it for free in the 'Guardian', but, actually, I don't want to read it at all.
So I've cancelled the Telegraph and moved to 'The Times'.

[WARSZAWA16]

Just saw this from her Twitter account. Seems like a hard nosed bitch who just spends her whole life moaning about something.If she gets her sexual thrills from the weather that pretty much says it all.Melbourne is very welcome to her.Don't hurry back dear!

Julie Bindel
‏Verified account @bindelj
5h5 hours ago

Just stepped off a horrendous 25 hour flight to Melbourne, but experienced deep joy, almost a para sexual thrill, at the cool temperature. I’m going to tell people I travelled all this way to escape the hideous London heatwave.
5 replies 4 retweets 91 likes

[mrdiamond77]

The Woman is a cunt.  She should not be speaking out on behalf of any woman, let alone the escorts who surely mainly despise her too.

[forestowl]

telegraph subscription now cancelled-giving bindell a platform to push her lies whilst not allowing sex workers to reply is too much

[NIK]

Thought it was about time this femi-Nazi lezzer piped up again.   

She must be in need of a bob or two. 

[Taggart]

Just stepped off a horrendous 25 hour flight to Melbourne, but experienced deep joy, almost a para sexual thrill, at the cool temperature. I’m going to tell people I travelled all this way to escape the hideous London heatwave.
5 replies 4 retweets 91 likes

What the silly bitch omits to point out is that it's winter in Oz....our equivilent of January.....
I dont bother with the DT anymore online, everything is behind a paywall, so they can feck off.

[Marmalade]

What is so regrettable is that our broadsheets have descended to publishing tabloid scare stories dressed up as academic studies. Bindel’s stuff is well-published — just never properly peer-reviewed. She should honestly be strippped if her academic qualifications if that were possible.

What would you think if a Abu Hamza got a doctorate in different subjects and then proceeded to write pro-islamicist papers in apparently ‘respected’ journals. All it would prove is that he has ‘clever’ but twisted mind.

Just like Ms Bindel.

[mike63]

S.X. M- Welcome to the Times.

[forestowl]

unfortunately the Times carrys a regular columnist who rails against the scene and demands the immediate introduction of the Nordic model.

[Marmalade]

unfortunately the Times carrys a regular columnist who rails against the scene and demands the immediate introduction of the Nordic model.

Not Jeremy Clarkson then. 

He just dislikes lorry drivers. 

[S.X. MacHine]

unfortunately the Times carrys a regular columnist who rails against the scene and demands the immediate introduction of the Nordic model.

Fuck! Might have to change to the 'Beano'...

[NIK]

What is so regrettable is that our broadsheets have descended to publishing tabloid scare stories dressed up as academic studies. Bindel’s stuff is well-published — just never properly peer-reviewed

Just like Ms Bindel.

Yes, the do called up market papers have been doing this for years. They take the piss out of the stories in popular papers and thereby sneakily carrry the same stories.

[forestowl]

yes the lack of balance in the broadsheets is shocking

[Itsnotshy]

yes the lack of balance in the broadsheets is shocking

Best to not buy any. You can save enough money in a year for a couple of extra punts, as a bonus you're not putting money into the coffers of people who clearly hate us, and wish us ill.

[Squire Haggard]

From her Wikipedia page,

Not worth paying attention to then, not worth paying attention to now............

''Bindel and her two brothers (one older, one younger) grew up on a council estate in Darlington, north east England, after moving there from a terraced house that had coal fires and no indoor toilet. She attended Branksome Comprehensive School from 1973 to 1978, leaving a year early without anyone noticing, she wrote.''



Its a pity that he missed her..........

''When she was 17 Bindel moved to Leeds and joined the Leeds Revolutionary Feminist Group, which was campaigning against pornography.[12][13] Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper, was still on the loose.''



She's got FUCK ALL to do with prostitution, and wants it stopped despite the fact that WGs  dont want it stopped.
Finally, what I really detest about this stupid cow is the fact that she has got FUCK ALL to do with men, but makes fucking career out of  attacking their interests.

''She came out as a lesbian in 1977 when she was 15.''

External Link/Members Only

[Marmalade]

Freud would've had a ball. What a headcase she is. 

[Itsnotshy]

I sometimes look at her twitter feed, full of bile and hate against men. Rotten human being.
Saw her on Sky news morning paper review some time ago and she was all sweetness and light. Butter wouldn't have melted in her mouth.
Pathetic.
Shame she couldn't have shown her real face to the mainstream.

[Danger!WillRobinson]

Perhaps she should read this peer reviewed research...

External Link/Members Only
(behind a paywall, sorry...)

But then, she's never been one to take on board cogent arguments.

[redfox_uk]

I remember reading her rants in the Guardian years ago when Gordon Brown was PM and Harriet Harmen was in the ascendency - I haven't really read that paper for a while but that used to be a feminazi hangout.

[S.X. MacHine]

I remember reading her rants in the Guardian years ago when Gordon Brown was PM and Harriet Harmen was in the ascendency - I haven't really read that paper for a while but that used to be a feminazi hangout.

Well, nothing much appears to have changed at the 'Grauniad'; still a feminazi hangout. I've never even once bought that Corbynista rag, you understand, but it is available on line for nothing. Which is precisely what it's worth. Nothing.
I take a glance only to keep abreast of Socialist thinking in its last bastion, along with North Korea and Venezuela.

[redfox_uk]

This has brought back some (bad) memories - there was a real push back in 2008/9 to criminalise the punter and the Guardian gave them a platform.
Cath Elliott was another Feminazi writer I remember from back then.

[Brighton-Belle]

The Woman is a cunt.  She should not be speaking out on behalf of any woman, let alone the escorts who surely mainly despise her too.

We do.

[Marmalade]

Perhaps she should read this peer reviewed research...

External Link/Members Only
(behind a paywall, sorry...)

But then, she's never been one to take on board cogent arguments.

You mean this one?
“Why Do Men Report More Opposite-Sex Sexual Partners Than Women? Analysis of the Gender Discrepancy in a British National Probability Survey”

I don’t think it would make much difference to her. (btw It’s of some statistical use probably but not a new idea - Desmond Morris published it over 20 years ago.)

The same peer-reviewed journal (Journal of Sex Research) did in fact publish one article where Bindel was named as co-author (not the main author). It was called “Reframing reporting of childhood sexual exploitation”.

We were keen to speak with reporters who covered the story to find out what factors, if any, impacted on their editorial angles, choice of sources, vocabulary and more. Researchers have identified at least five factors that may potentially influence how journalists frame an event or issue, including organizational pressures, newsroom routines, pressures from influential sources, the ideological or political leanings of the journalists, and the social norms or values of any given context (Tuchman 1978; Edelman 1993; Shoemaker and Reese 1996). Edelman (1993, 232), for instance, posited that framing is "driven by ideology and prejudice", while Gamson and Modigliani (1987) suggested that journalists' deadlines led to reliance on the availability of official sources with particular ideologies.

The interesting thing is that if that type of study was repeated but using a range of Bindel’s own work it would seem it would undoubtemost likely demonstrate beyond doubt that her writings are driven by ‘ideological leanings’. In other words, bias.

[Autopunter]

Huge screed in the Telegraph today equating escorting with pimping/trafficking/child prostitution, in other words, all the usual wholly inaccurate cliches they use to discredit our legitimate hobby.
By giving a platform to the hideous feminist in chief, Julie Bindel, the 'Torygraph' has gone beyond my limit of toleration. If I want to read Bindels bigoted, feminist crap, I can read it for free in the 'Guardian', but, actually, I don't want to read it at all.
So I've cancelled the Telegraph and moved to 'The Times'.

All the leading feminists are raving nutters, and Bindel is a prime modern example. Further back in their evolutionary tree, ur-feminist Greer apparently had a bad relationship with her father I seem to remember. I always wonder why the public are supposedly all so keen to listen to such obviously damaged people, especially when there's plenty of actual female SPs around who telling everyone to mind their own business. I myself have always struggled to see how in practice, its any different to porn or sugar dating, or even so far removed from more up-market/softer gigs like lingerie modelling, which basically consists of (working at) being hot, thin and willing to prance about in very small underwear after all 

[wombat42]

Therte was a debate on this in Westminster Hall a few weeks back if someone would like to dig up the relevant video parliament tv link. Many of the speakers were Labour MPs in the same mould as Bindel. But the governmrent minister responding to the debate gave a measured response saying that Bristol University were doing research and the results should be published April next year and the government will base any future policy on that.

[forestowl]

True-the worry is that Bristol University is rumored to be pro Nordic model so the research will need to be reviewed carefully in case its simply a cover to bring in the Nordic model.

[Squire Haggard]

Therte was a debate on this in Westminster Hall a few weeks back if someone would like to dig up the relevant video parliament tv link. Many of the speakers were Labour MPs in the same mould as Bindel. But the governmrent minister responding to the debate gave a measured response saying that Bristol University were doing research and the results should be published April next year and the government will base any future policy on that.

It looks like government are wanting to dump responsibility for any decision that they might make onto Bristol University, regardless of how biased or unbiased that report might be. Why bother with the expense of a government when Bristol University will decide everything?  Its a bit worrying that a woman who is likely to be a leftist is in charge of this report.

Since its 2018, it will be unthinkable to have a man in charge of this report. 

However, they are still accepting contributions. After I sent mine, I got this email response a few days ago,



Dear all,


I wanted to thank you for participating in the University of Bristol Prostitution and Sex Work Online Survey.  I am dropping you a short update as you indicated that you would be willing to be contacted on this email.  If you do not want any further contact, or you think that someone has misappropriated your email address, please let me know and I will remove you from this list.


We have posted an update on the project page here: External Link/Members Only


In brief, we have had a fantastic response, and are now analysing the responses received to this point. We are leaving the survey open until 31 December 2018 as we appreciate that sometimes people discover these consultations late or have something further that they want to add.  We will check these secondary responses each week.


We deliberately asked a small number of simple and open response questions to allow people to share what they felt was important, which has been very successful.


We now need some time over the summer to analyse and follow through different queries.  We then plan to consult on our initial findings with a representative sample of individuals in the Autumn.  Given the timescale for the project (it runs till Spring 2019) and the huge response we have had, we will not be able to speak to every one of you.  However, we will continue updating the project page from the Autumn and we hope that you will find value, and some reflection of your own knowledge and experience, in what emerges.  You are welcome to email me with comments or concerns at that point.


Finally, I should stress that we have been commissioned to describe the 'nature' and 'prevalence' of prostitution and sex work in England and Wales.  We have not been asked to make recommendations on regulation.  However, we recognise both that the regulatory environment is implicated in nature and prevalence and that government could use this work to inform policy at a later date.


Wishing you all a lovely summer.


Natasha

Dr Natasha Mulvihill
Lecturer in Criminology
Centre for Gender and Violence Research
School for Policy Studies
University of Bristol
Bristol BS8 1TZ
Tel 0117 954 6733

External Link/Members Only

[Itsnotshy]

Given the report runs until next spring and then the Government has to legislate I would say we have at least a year before the State fucks us up the arse.
Could be worse.

[Jimbo38]

It increasingly looks to be worth selling up and emigrating. Marriage laws are joke and the UK is not somewhere I'd want to bring up children anymore. Any country that would entertain these man-haters doesn‘t deserve my wealth or labour.

[mrdiamond77]

True-the worry is that Bristol University is rumored to be pro Nordic model so the research will need to be reviewed carefully in case its simply a cover to bring in the Nordic model.

Yes, and they should not be running it if they are not going to be impartial and fair.   

[computergeek]

Impartial and fair? 

The fact they've got the "Centre for Gender and Violence Research" in charge of sex work research rather than, I dunno, the economists who would look into any other job, tells you what the report's going to say before they write it! 

[mrdiamond77]

Impartial and fair? 

The fact they've got the "Centre for Gender and Violence Research" in charge of sex work research rather than, I dunno, the economists who would look into any other job, tells you what the report's going to say before they write it! 

That's the point I was trying to make. It will be a whitewash.

[Squire Haggard]

The Nordic model is getting closer. It has spread to Northern Ireland and France, and punters are now criminalised in both places. I hope that our government does not use this report to 'bring us into line' with the others. There's some evidence on this thread that this is not a good idea, but it might not stop them adopting the Nordic model.

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=214364.0

[magnetico]

I hope that our government does not use this report to 'bring us into line' with the others.

This is probably the government's strategy.

But we already know that the government doesn't care that much about "reports", we've seen what happened with the drugs report of David Nutt, which was sacked in 2009

Gov doesn't care as well about the prossie's point of view obviously

[forestowl]

its fair to assume that the govt has made its mind up to introduce the Nordic model as well as censoring/banning any sites that may carry objections or arguments against.

We cannot count on the opposition whose leader has been converted to the Nordic model.

[Marmalade]

Does anyone have a list of questions so we could at least discuss on the thread? The website expects you to give quite a lot of answers before showing you the questions.

One has to point out that a self-selecting group of respondents, such as the study seeks, is not that scientific. Prossies who have been abused will have been targeted by abolition groups to “tell their story”. Compared to Scotpep, one of the few groups trying to help prossies, many of these abolitionist groups get government funding. It is in their interests to make the reports as lurid as possible.

I don’t know if SAAFE is getting their members to respond but I imagine that respondents are more likely to be disaffected minorities, simply as they have time on their hands. People who work hard at their job — including sex workers, don’t put “filling in surveys” at the top of their list of things to do in their spare time.

 I would suspect that questions have already been vetted for bias.

[Itsnotshy]

People who work hard at their job — including sex workers, don’t put “filling in surveys” at the top of their list of things to do in their spare time.

 I would suspect that questions have already been vetted for bias.

I've spoken to a lot of the women I see about this over the last few years and they are utterly unaware of the Nordic model, and the threat it poses.
All they care about is earning and see the whole idea of criminalizing punters as nonsense.
Most are working class and the support for the Nordic model comes from the new middle class SJW tossers like Bindel.
This is above all a Class issue with the moralistic, middle classes telling the working classes how they should and should not live their lives.

[Marmalade]

I've spoken to a lot of the women I see about this over the last few years and they are utterly unaware of the Nordic model, and the threat it poses.
All they care about is earning and see the whole idea of criminalizing punters as nonsense.
Most are working class and the support for the Nordic model comes from the new middle class SJW tossers like Bindel.
This is above all a Class issue with the moralistic, middle classes telling the working classes how they should and should not live their lives.

I wonder if SAAFE couldn’t have a vote on it? Maybe some of our prossie members or lurkers could suggest it. There’s hopefully someone there techie enough to add an independent widget to the site to let any member vote once. Maybe even UKE could do it.

The point is that it is the small, unsuccessful, abused or pimped minority that are the most likely to respond to the official survey, for reasons I’ve pointed out. Whereas a simple voting button would encourage all prossies to have a say.

[Plan R]

Worst case scenario then..and the Nordic model (she sounds quite horny), is introduced in..say.. 3 years time.
What are the possible workarounds?

I suggest WGs adverts would have to adapt so they say, 'Paying for company only' front and centre.
Euphemisms (which would gradually evolve into common acceptance) could then be employed.. such as;
Conversation = Oral
Frank Conversation = Oral Without
Guided tour = Penetration
Special Toppings = Facial
Rear Deliveries taken = Anal
and so on..in the same mildly comedic vein.

I'm making this up but you get what I mean.
As it's behind closed doors - how could Plod, Bindel or any number of deranged feminazis prove you didn't just spen 120quid on
a 1hr 'Frank Conversation' followed by a 'Guided Tour' ?

Happy to have the flaws in this pointed out - and please suggest other workarounds.
Again, as the deed is done behind closed doors, between punter and prossie - who the fuck can prove anything?

 
   

[Itsnotshy]

I wonder if SAAFE couldn’t have a vote on it? Maybe some of our prossie members or lurkers could suggest it. There’s hopefully someone there techie enough to add an independent widget to the site to let any member vote once. Maybe even UKE could do it.

The point is that it is the small, unsuccessful, abused or pimped minority that are the most likely to respond to the official survey, for reasons I’ve pointed out. Whereas a simple voting button would encourage all prossies to have a say.

I fear that most working class, in some cases part time, sex workers will not even know what SAAFE is.
My experience is most have zero interest in activism, or politics, and are only concerned with shopping, and where they're going on holiday next.
Pretty much like all of us, myself included, they just want to be left alone to get on with their lives.
Going to come as a hell of a shock to most punters and sex workers when/if the Nordic model comes in.
I would fill in the survey myself but suspect anything punters say will be twisted and taken out of context.I'm not as quick witted as I used to be and don't want to make the situation worse with a poorly placed comment or phrase.

[Itsnotshy]

As it's behind closed doors - how could Plod, Bindel or any number of deranged feminazis prove you didn't just spen 120quid on
a 1hr 'Frank Conversation' followed by a 'Guided Tour' ?

Happy to have the flaws in this pointed out - and please suggest other workarounds.
Again, as the deed is done behind closed doors, between punter and prossie - who the fuck can prove anything?

 
 

There is a video on You tube under 'Prostitution unit of Stockholm police arrest a sex buyer'. Someone more tech savvy than me might be able to post a link.
They just wait outside the flat until the man comes out arrest him,take him off to be charged.
If the woman is advertising and the man visits her that appears to be enough.
If the punter refuses to accept a caution and fine then it goes to court with all the publicity.
Simple really pay the fine or else....no proof of actual sex needed.
Monstrous infringement of human rights but then he's a sex buyer so who cares.

[Marmalade]

It just means a lowering of standards. We’ve had it both ways in Edinburgh. When the law takes a harassing attitude, against prossies and/or punters, it’s not rocket science to see what happens next.

Normal law-abiding prossies that maybe would do it for a couple of years don’t want to risk the hassle. They do a full shift at Tesco’s and are too tired to finish their degree or look after their kids or can barely afford their rent. Or the ones supporting kids are driven to food banks and/or pimps. The criminal fraternity move in. They don’t care about laws: firstly it’s their full time job to work round them and secondly the rewards are too great. NGOs like Scotpep that looked after prossies with health checks, checking for signs of abuse, pimping or underage, have their funding removed. Prossies experience increased danger and are afraid to report crimes. Prices go up, service quality goes down. Police time, already stretched past its limits, is wasted chasing those indulging in consensual paid sex.

Abolitionists want to change the world — and that’s how they change it if they win. For the worse.

[Itsnotshy]

It just means a lowering of standards. We’ve had it both ways in Edinburgh. When the law takes a harassing attitude, against prossies and/or punters, it’s not rocket science to see what happens next.

Normal law-abiding prossies that maybe would do it for a couple of years don’t want to risk the hassle. They do a full shift at Tesco’s and are too tired to finish their degree or look after their kids or can barely afford their rent. Or the ones supporting kids are driven to food banks and/or pimps. The criminal fraternity move in. They don’t care about laws: firstly it’s their full time job to work round them and secondly the rewards are too great. NGOs like Scotpep that looked after prossies with health checks, checking for signs of abuse, pimping or underage, have their funding removed. Prossies experience increased danger and are afraid to report crimes. Prices go up, service quality goes down. Police time, already stretched past its limits, is wasted chasing those indulging in consensual paid sex.

Abolitionists want to change the world — and that’s how they change it if they win. For the worse.

Best summary of the Nordic model I've read.
In addition the sex buyers who get arrested are rarely the bad ones just the hapless, less streetwise.
And you end up with a lot more INCELS, hardly a healthy situation for any society.

[S.X. MacHine]

There is a video on You tube under 'Prostitution unit of Stockholm police arrest a sex buyer'. Someone more tech savvy than me might be able to post a link.
They just wait outside the flat until the man comes out arrest him,take him off to be charged.
If the woman is advertising and the man visits her that appears to be enough.
If the punter refuses to accept a caution and fine then it goes to court with all the publicity.
Simple really pay the fine or else....no proof of actual sex needed.
Monstrous infringement of human rights but then he's a sex buyer so who cares.

However, that's Swedish law. To second guess how the criminalisation of punters might pan out in England, the closest analogy would be the situation in Northern Ireland.
While the punters there are now quite unforthcoming, I understand the number of prosecutions have been minimal (a handful?) and life goes on.
The situation may be the result of the NI Police Service feeling they are underfunded and lacking the resources for a more pro active approach, or it may be that under the NI law of evidence, obtaining robust evidence where the only potential witness is complicit in the 'crime', is too problematical.

[Plan R]

There is a video on You tube under 'Prostitution unit of Stockholm police arrest a sex buyer'. Someone more tech savvy than me might be able to post a link.
They just wait outside the flat until the man comes out arrest him,take him off to be charged.
If the woman is advertising and the man visits her that appears to be enough.
If the punter refuses to accept a caution and fine then it goes to court with all the publicity.
Simple really pay the fine or else....no proof of actual sex needed.
Monstrous infringement of human rights but then he's a sex buyer so who cares.

A law workable only because of the embarrassment/loss it could cause a punter... ??
Surely that would fall foul of some set of rights before long. Doesn't sound like a workable law to me (but I'm not a feminazi).
And if it's in a tower block - prove which flat I went too.

Here's another work around..you can tell I'm making these up as I go along 
WG provides a link to ebay in her advert..where she has a relatively expensive item 'X' for sale (Jewelery, a pen, a watch - anything)
Punter says he was at the flat to have a look at item 'X' before he might have put a bid on.

[forestowl]

as previously they will probably try and make it a form of statutory liability-ie no proof required and assumption of guilt.Unless they are going to use wiretap/monitoring technology which will consume resources.


Any form of entrapment will be thrown out by the courts.

However there seems little doubt that we are on the road to the Nordic model.

[Itsnotshy]

A law workable only because of the embarrassment/loss it could cause a punter... ??
Surely that would fall foul of some set of rights before long. Doesn't sound like a workable law to me (but I'm not a feminazi).
And if it's in a tower block - prove which flat I went too.

Here's another work around..you can tell I'm making these up as I go along 
WG provides a link to ebay in her advert..where she has a relatively expensive item 'X' for sale (Jewelery, a pen, a watch - anything)
Punter says he was at the flat to have a look at item 'X' before he might have put a bid on.

Complex but maybe something in that if Adultwork closes. Sex workers on Ebay.
On the subject of which flat, they solve that by booking with the sex worker and getting the flat number, then just not turning up.
Then they hang around wait for the punter to go in and when he comes out nab him.
That's what they did in the video.
They even listened at the door and heard she was on the phone,apparently sex workers spend a lot of time on the phone, unlike civilians

[Itsnotshy]

However, that's Swedish law. To second guess how the criminalisation of punters might pan out in England, the closest analogy would be the situation in Northern Ireland.
While the punters there are now quite unforthcoming, I understand the number of prosecutions have been minimal (a handful?) and life goes on.
The situation may be the result of the NI Police Service feeling they are underfunded and lacking the resources for a more pro active approach, or it may be that under the NI law of evidence, obtaining robust evidence where the only potential witness is complicit in the 'crime', is too problematical.

Just looked at the NI section and it does appear to have picked up lately, so the police must be taking a laid back attitude there.
Pragmatism prevailing maybe.

[Marmalade]

Does the NI really apply to us? They mostly have separate laws.

[mills_and_bhuna]

Julie Bindel .
The same woman who sets up an account on a punting forum with the username 'Peter Sutcliffe '.
I'd like to see her try to explain that one