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Author Topic: Hypersonics and defence economics  (Read 73473 times)

Offline Doc Holliday

Is it a true story? Sounds made up

It's based on this recent press release from TASS External Link/Members Only

The story has then been somewhat expanded by Ukraine to mock him :D although he has been the Head Instructor of the Russian Aikido Federation since 2018. Seagal is very odd character and has been frequently mocked throughout his career.

Online RedKettle

It's based on this recent press release from TASS External Link/Members Only

The story has then been somewhat expanded by Ukraine to mock him :D although he has been the Head Instructor of the Russian Aikido Federation since 2018. Seagal is very odd character and has been frequently mocked throughout his career.

Thanks, all that has passed me by.  Other than Under Siege i don’t think i have watched any of his stuff, although was aware that he was a genuine martial arts expert.

So story is light hearted but some taking it too seriously as a sign of the failings of media.

 :hi:

Offline mills_and_bhuna

They absolutetly love the Steven Seagal type stories, can't get enough of that obvious BS, they lap it up

Can't tell the difference between the signal and the noise
hope you're okay and didn't get hit by any toys after RK threw them out of the pram.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Been watching a couple of items assessing the impact of the ICC intervention last week and a few interesting points cropped up. It was supposedly for trafficking of children from Ukraine into Russia.
That sounds bad on its face but the children were all from orphanages and children's homes and were being adopted by Russian families back in Russia.
Not only that but they were from Russian speaking families, and so given the conflict had been going on for 9 years there's a fair chance they were orphaned by Ukrainian military action.
Another point is supposedly that the ICC had asked the CIA and Pentagon to assist them with intelligence to write up the charges. So they're basically asking the military of a non-signatory for help to charge their enemy. Totally legit and no red flags there then.
And then the Pentagon refused to send information as they felt it would set a precedent.
Understandable given the number of war criminals walking freely around Washington DC.
Another interesting point is that out of the 193 countries in the UN, around 120 recognise the ICC and around 70 don't.
South Africa does and Putin is apparently due to go there for a BRICS meeting later on this year so they would be legally obliged to arrest him. So there's a fair possibility that there could be an exodus of countries from the ICC as South Africa has already spoken out against the sanctions and I suspect they would pull out rather than suspend the BRICS meeting given the situation with the US pushing its weight around at every opportunity.

Offline scutty brown

Been watching a couple of items assessing the impact of the ICC intervention last week and a few interesting points cropped up. It was supposedly for trafficking of children from Ukraine into Russia.
That sounds bad on its face but the children were all from orphanages and children's homes and were being adopted by Russian families back in Russia.
Not only that but they were from Russian speaking families, and so given the conflict had been going on for 9 years there's a fair chance they were orphaned by Ukrainian military action.
.

Factually incorrect on all counts
You're promulgating Kremlin krap again
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 07:11:29 pm by scutty brown »

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Factually incorrect on all counts
You're promulgating Kremlin krap again
so You say. Your propensity to go for the Kremlin jibe just makes you sound like the hacks who feed you your propaganda.

Online RedKettle

Factually incorrect on all counts
You're promulgating Kremlin krap again

And he thinks we are gullible!!

Offline Blackpool Rock

Putin to put Nukes in Belarus.
If it doesn't break any agreements then he's free to do so and I don't actually have an issue with it, basically just a bit of posturing and sabre rattling

External Link/Members Only

Online Watts.E.Dunn

Putin to put Nukes in Belarus.
If it doesn't break any agreements then he's free to do so and I don't actually have an issue with it, basically just a bit of posturing and sabre rattling

External Link/Members Only

Yes thats what it it is..

However what if one went off by accident, could happen, or one went off on Ukraiain soil? what could the west do?..

Offline Doc Holliday


However what if one went off by accident, could happen

Almost zero chance of detonation and there have been many nuclear accidents over the years.


Offline mills_and_bhuna

Yes thats what it it is..

However what if one went off by accident, could happen, or one went off on Ukraiain soil? what could the west do?..
I can't remember you worrying about any of the NATO nukes on Polish or Romanian soil going off by accident

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Putin to put Nukes in Belarus.
If it doesn't break any agreements then he's free to do so and I don't actually have an issue with it, basically just a bit of posturing and sabre rattling

External Link/Members Only
just as well NATO never do any of that sabre-rattling or posturing stuff......

Offline scutty brown

No.
I know if for a fact

The Kremlin doesn't recognise "facts" as meaning "truth"

Offline mills_and_bhuna

The Kremlin doesn't recognise "facts" as meaning "truth"
You seem a bit Kremlin obsessed.
I wouldn't worry too much.
These nice people at Google and MI5 are upscaling their fact checking operations so your brain doesn't get too overwhelmed .
Just a pity that nasty Mr.Musk has opened a can of worms

Offline lostandfound

So, Xi has gone back to China, and Putin got what? A few pointlessly worded comminiques?

I posted before that vis-a-vis Russia, China wants Siberia. (Which Russia "took" from China centuries ago).

So while Putin spunks away Russia's resources in a losing fight in Ukraine he does not see that it is a Greater China that is happening, not a Greater Russia?

Kind of ironic?

Online Watts.E.Dunn

I can't remember you worrying about any of the NATO nukes on Polish or Romanian soil going off by accident

I'm not worried about  one on any other soil the question was about one in Belarus or Ukraine even a very small one they do make them down to 1 to 10 KT

Thats not that big and in a rural area won't  do that much damage as such. Howevewr the response of the Ukraninin and western powers and that of China woul be very intersting!..

Offline mills_and_bhuna

I'm not worried about  one on any other soil the question was about one in Belarus or Ukraine even a very small one they do make them down to 1 to 10 KT

Thats not that big and in a rural area won't  do that much damage as such. Howevewr the response of the Ukraninin and western powers and that of China woul be very intersting!..
As far as I'm concerned it's just more media bluster and hypocrisy hoping that their audience has no powers of critical thinking.
It's like the claims of Chinese aggression in the South China Sea while the US surround them with military bases or the claims of Iranian aggression in the Persian Gulf while American aircraft carriers scoot up and down.
Geoffrey Sachs roasted the BBC 'journalist '  last week for just this kind of biased premise.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

So, Xi has gone back to China, and Putin got what? A few pointlessly worded comminiques?

I posted before that vis-a-vis Russia, China wants Siberia. (Which Russia "took" from China centuries ago).

So while Putin spunks away Russia's resources in a losing fight in Ukraine he does not see that it is a Greater China that is happening, not a Greater Russia?

Kind of ironic?
Did you get that idea from some think-tank?
I think China knows what the US is up to and is trying to forge a multipolar world order rather than the hegemony we've been treated to the last thirty years.
It's interesting that we can't get away from an imperialist land grabbing way of thinking here in the West.
And we try to project it onto others.


Offline mills_and_bhuna

External Link/Members Only
I was almost losing the will to live reading that bollocks.
So sad that people can't see through this obvious propaganda and lobbying.

Offline RandomGuy99

I was almost losing the will to live reading that bollocks.
So sad that people can't see through this obvious propaganda and lobbying.
I have to say that the UK armed forces are really running at minimum levels and in the event of a major event we'd be screwed without the US.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

I have to say that the UK armed forces are really running at minimum levels and in the event of a major event we'd be screwed without the US.
I clearly have a different perspective.
I think the US is the actual threat and us being so closely associated with the most warlike nation on earth in its foreign adventures is the issue.
Maybe we should act less like a country pining for a lost empire

Offline RandomGuy99

I clearly have a different perspective.
I think the US is the actual threat and us being so closely associated with the most warlike nation on earth in its foreign adventures is the issue.
Maybe we should act less like a country pining for a lost empire
We don't have enough people or kit to protect our own interests (borders, airspace, fishing, gas and electric cables under the sea, internet cables) and having two big expensive aircraft carriers without the correct number of aircraft and escort ships is just giving someone a nice big target to hit and sink in the first 10 minutes of a serious war.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

We don't have enough people or kit to protect our own interests (borders, airspace, fishing, gas and electric cables under the sea, internet cables) and having two big expensive aircraft carriers without the correct number of aircraft and escort ships is just giving someone a nice big target to hit and sink in the first 10 minutes of a serious war.
Maybe we shouldn't be supporting a proxy war and giving other countries reasons to attack our shipping then

Offline RandomGuy99

Maybe we shouldn't be supporting a proxy war and giving other countries reasons to attack our shipping then
It's got nothing to do with the current war. The UK armed forces are stretched. Any kind of sustained military operation will break them.

Nobody is going to attack our shipping at the moment and nobody is going to sail an aircraft carrier into the Black Sea. It would be a sitting duck and would be easy to get stuck there.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

It's got nothing to do with the current war. The UK armed forces are stretched. Any kind of sustained military operation will break them.

Nobody is going to attack our shipping at the moment and nobody is going to sail an aircraft carrier into the Black Sea. It would be a sitting duck and would be easy to get stuck there.
What sustained military operation did you have in mind?
Anyone worrying you at the moment in particular ?

Offline RandomGuy99

What sustained military operation did you have in mind?
Anyone worrying you at the moment in particular ?
Well how about Northern Ireland kicking off again? (I think it's unlikely as I think the population don't want to go back to those days)

Russia or terrorists becoming more disruptive with attacks on infrastructure.

Anything that requires the UK to defend its interests.

China and Russia know that NATO has become weak and will now take 10 years to strengthen itself.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Well how about Northern Ireland kicking off again? (I think it's unlikely as I think the population don't want to go back to those days)

Russia or terrorists becoming more disruptive with attacks on infrastructure.

Anything that requires the UK to defend its interests.

China and Russia know that NATO has become weak and will now take 10 years to strengthen itself.
China and Russia know that NATO is a threat to their sovereignty and Brazil, Mexico, India, most of Africa and Saudi Arabia seem to be waking up to the reality that NATO is a gloss over US hegemony and are sympathetic to Russian and Chinese concerns.
I agree the world is becoming a more dangerous place.
I think we have to take a chunk of the blame for that .
Imperialist and interventionist chickens coming home to roost.

Offline jackdaw


China and Russia know that NATO has become weak and will now take 10 years to strengthen itself.

Really not convinced that’s true. Effectively the Russian invasion has acted as a recruiting sergeant for NATO resulting both in new members and existing members increasing their defence spend.

Also I would argue that Russia has revealed its conventional army to be weaker than large majority of us believed. At the start of this thread the end of the campaign was being being forecast as a quick decisive victory by most. Very few gave Ukraine any chance of winning.

Now? Well it’s a matter of fact that Ukraine has resisted longer than large majority predicted…some of that is obviously down to Ukraine getting more aid than expected, but it’s also down to poor Russian intelligence, and an unexpected level of Russian military incompetence.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 06:56:11 am by jackdaw »

Offline RandomGuy99

Really not convinced that’s true. Effectively the Russian invasion has acted as a recruiting sergeant for NATO resulting both in new members and existing members increasing their defence spend.

Also I would argue that Russia has revealed its conventional army to be weaker than large majority of us believed. At the start of this thread the end of the campaign was being being forecast as a quick decisive victory by most. Very few gave Ukraine any chance of winning.

Now? Well it’s a matter of fact that Ukraine has resisted longer than large majority predicted…some of that is obviously down to Ukraine getting more aid than expected, but it’s also down to poor Russian intelligence, and an unexpected level of Russian military incompetence.
With the increased NATO spending it will take around 10 yrs to increase NATO's capability and the new countries will take time to integrate into NATO operations.

Offline Blackpool Rock

Really not convinced that’s true. Effectively the Russian invasion has acted as a recruiting sergeant for NATO resulting both in new members and existing members increasing their defence spend.

Also I would argue that Russia has revealed its conventional army to be weaker than large majority of us believed. At the start of this thread the end of the campaign was being being forecast as a quick decisive victory by most. Very few gave Ukraine any chance of winning.

Now? Well it’s a matter of fact that Ukraine has resisted longer than large majority predicted…some of that is obviously down to Ukraine getting more aid than expected, but it’s also down to poor Russian intelligence, and an unexpected level of Russian military incompetence.
Yes if it wasn't for their Nuke capability then Russia would have been kicked out and told to FRO by now but they have shot themselves in the foot big time here as Nato has not only expanded with Finland coming on board but countries who were a bit shy about putting cash into the military have had a wake up call and now funding more  :thumbsup:

As someone posted Russia is now effectively dancing to China's tune, strange how things change as these 2 countries hated each other in the 60's and faced off with large deployments of weapons pointing at each other however these cosy alliances are sometimes only skin deep

Offline Doc Holliday


Also I would argue that Russia has revealed its conventional army to be weaker than large majority of us believed. At the start of this thread the end of the campaign was being being forecast as a quick decisive victory by most. Very few gave Ukraine any chance of winning.


Yes it has moved the goalposts. For example Russia has a huge numbers of tanks, (I think more than any other single country) but they find themselves now engaged in almost a First World war trench campaign.

They also have a huge artillery capability, which they have fallen back on in Ukraine as well as Syria etc. This shows that the days of artillery and attrition are not yet over in prolonged campaigns and also the importance of maintaining ammunition supply.

It is likely that the US is the only nation which can successfully carry out a rapid campaign and a factor in that is they spend huge sums of money on logistics to back up what is going on on the ground. Russia's logistics have failed badly.

The US defence annual spend is more than the other top ten countries put together which includes China and Russia although China has massively increased its spending over the last two decades.

I read the other day that the US air force alone could probably end the war in Ukraine within a week if they wished to, such is the position Russia finds itself, but of course with extreme consequences.

Online RedKettle

Finland now in NATO, this is going well for Putin!!   There are memes going around saying Putin is NATO salesperson of the year.

Finland have been striving for neutrality for years, including the Cold War.  They even avoiding joining Eurovision at one point.

Offline mr.bluesky

Finland now in NATO, this is going well for Putin!!   There are memes going around saying Putin is NATO salesperson of the year.

Finland have been striving for neutrality for years, including the Cold War.  They even avoiding joining Eurovision at one point.

Finland fought the Old Soviet Union twice during WW2 but was never occupied, although they did lose territory to them so not surprising with current events they have now joined NATO

Offline webpunter

This thread has been most interesting even enjoyable [other than for the subject matter] for the last week
Ukraine & wider hostilities are about to kick off again today
@ 16:16
 :rolleyes:

Offline Blackpool Rock

This thread has been most interesting even enjoyable [other than for the subject matter] for the last week
Ukraine & wider hostilities are about to kick off again today
@ 16:16
 :rolleyes:
Yes what a breath of fresh air it's been for the last week, like sending the kids off on holiday for a week so you can enjoy yourself  :hi:

Offline chrishornx

Yes what a breath of fresh air it's been for the last week, like sending the kids off on holiday for a week so you can enjoy yourself  :hi:

fully agree much nicer tone to the whole board

Offline David1970

This thread has been most interesting even enjoyable [other than for the subject matter] for the last week
Ukraine & wider hostilities are about to kick off again today
@ 16:16
 :rolleyes:

Got to agree, this thread has been more rational, interesting and civil in the last week.

Online RedKettle

Would recommend the BBC Stacey Dooley documentary on the British Army training Ukrainian recruits in a 5 week crash course. I like watching her anyway  :P but it is interesting to see what they are doing.

Overall I was left with the feeling that it is such a tragic waste of life. There were some really great young people who have left good jobs and families to kill and be killed in the mud. Best case is that they kill more of the young people on the other side and get their country back, what a mess.

I hope Putin gets what is coming to him at some stage, unfortunately I suspect that as usual the person who started this will not be taking a bullet.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Would recommend the BBC Stacey Dooley documentary on the British Army training Ukrainian recruits in a 5 week crash course. I like watching her anyway  :P but it is interesting to see what they are doing.

Overall I was left with the feeling that it is such a tragic waste of life. There were some really great young people who have left good jobs and families to kill and be killed in the mud. Best case is that they kill more of the young people on the other side and get their country back, what a mess.

I hope Putin gets what is coming to him at some stage, unfortunately I suspect that as usual the person who started this will not be taking a bullet.
Stacy Dooley? My god you're getting highbrow now.
They would still have a country if the US hadn't encouraged them to become proxies in an economic war.
Maybe they should negotiate.
I suspect less people will die on both sides.
It's going to be hard to say who started this to put a bullet in their head.
You could argue the Secretary of State at the time of the Maidan Coup.
A certain Hillary Clinton.
Or her under secretary Victoria Nuland.
Or the myriad Neo-cons who have been flooding Ukraine with weapons despite knowing that Ukraine had a serious problem with right wing extremists.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 12:57:19 am by mills_and_bhuna »

Offline Blackpool Rock

This thread has been most interesting even enjoyable [other than for the subject matter] for the last week
Ukraine & wider hostilities are about to kick off again today
@ 16:16
 :rolleyes:
Well it took an extra 5 days but normal service is resumed  :sarcastic:  :dash:

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Well it took an extra 5 days but normal service is resumed  :sarcastic:  :dash:
glad to be of service :hi:

Online RedKettle

External Link/Members Only

BBC piece about the documentary I mentioned above.

I have M&B on ignore but assume he has rubbished it in his comments above - again I recommend it as it gives an insight into the impact of the decision made by Putin on the lives of ordinary blokes like us and their families.  (Well younger blokes than us in my case!!) 

Offline Doc Holliday


I have M&B on ignore but assume he has rubbished it in his comments above -

No he agreed with every word  ;)

I lied ... he just threw the inevitable insult at you for watching Stacey Dooley (he just cannot stop himself) and then copied and pasted his standard, boringly repetitive, 'bullet point' sentences, containing his usual words, such US proxy war, Hilary Clinton, myriad neo-cons and Ukranian right wing extremists.

Oh and there were misspellings of Stacey and Hilary. Colston would be furious!

You missed nothing... move along.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 01:40:29 pm by Doc Holliday »

Online RedKettle

No he agreed with every word  ;)

I lied ... he just threw the inevitable insult at you for watching Stacey Dooley (he just cannot stop himself) and then copied and pasted his standard, boringly repetitive, 'bullet point' sentences, containing his usual words, such US proxy war, Hilary Clinton, myriad neo-cons and Ukranian right wing extremists.

Oh and there were misspellings of Stacey and Hilary. Colston would be furious!

You missed nothing... move along.

Mate I would watch Stacey Dooley all day long - very pretty woman!  Not so much in this programme but she does have an ability to get an amazing amount from some people.  I think she quickly builds rapport with other young woman and then middle aged men either underestimate her as a pretty little thing or they want to impress her.

Offline chrishornx

No he agreed with every word  ;)

I lied ... he just threw the inevitable insult at you for watching Stacey Dooley (he just cannot stop himself) and then copied and pasted his standard, boringly repetitive, 'bullet point' sentences, containing his usual words, such US proxy war, Hilary Clinton, myriad neo-cons and Ukranian right wing extremists.

Oh and there were misspellings of Stacey and Hilary. Colston would be furious!

You missed nothing... move along.

And of course his favourite  'Hegemony'

forgive me if wrong but I thought the Maidan Coup took place in 2014 and Clinton finished as Secretary of State in February 2013 - is that another of his inaccuracies ?

Offline mills_and_bhuna

And of course his favourite  'Hegemony'

forgive me if wrong but I thought the Maidan Coup took place in 2014 and Clinton finished as Secretary of State in February 2013 - is that another of his inaccuracies ?
My apologies.
You're correct.
It was John Kerry .
Another waste of space.
He must have delegated all his Ukraine interference to Nuland .I
And of course she had bipartisan help from such luminary warmongers as John McCain in fomenting unrest in Kiev.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Mate I would watch Stacey Dooley all day long -
and therein lies the problem :sarcastic:

Offline mills_and_bhuna

No he agreed with every word  ;)

I lied ... he just threw the inevitable insult at you for watching Stacey Dooley (he just cannot stop himself) and then copied and pasted his standard, boringly repetitive, 'bullet point' sentences, containing his usual words, such US proxy war, Hilary Clinton, myriad neo-cons and Ukranian right wing extremists.

Oh and there were misspellings of Stacey and Hilary. Colston would be furious!

You missed nothing... move along.
You don't think it's a proxy war ?
Oh and I spelled Hillary right.