Admin Permission Given-Help us with important Research - Customer Survey

[Students Notebook]

I've completed the Survey too.

Fairly basic stuff.

SN

[charming_red]

The questionnaire was sensible.

Indeed.

Didn't take long to do either and don't see the point of some of the childish responses earlier in this thread.

[Noah Hope]

it really depends on the nature of the research, the research question, the methodological approach used, and the epistemological / ontological position of the researcher(s).

in a black / white world of fact & truth, the researchers' views and opinions are irrelevant. In a constructed world were there are more shades of grey then that twat and her book, then this is where the researchers should state clearly their views, opinions, biases, beliefs etc

Questions 27+28 seem to have a built in bias in taking for granted that someone's job isn't a part of their "real life and identity," and that people aren't all the time "acting and performing a role" in society. 
You wouldn't ask your GP if they are performing a role.  Of course they are. (As your doctor.) It doesn't mean when they're in that role it's unreal.
I filled it in anyway. 

[Sir Lance-a-lot]

I answered it. Its quite basic though. Not one question about why you punt though.

Yes, I noticed that.  From past experience, many married guys would say "not getting any at home", while some would say "I like variety".  Single guys would split between variety, can't be arsed with a girlfriend, and not being able to find or attract a girlfriend.  But that question wasn't asked.

[hantshagger]

will be doing the survey.  Seems to be a good one to complete.   Will mention it to some working girls also as  i meet , over coming month....   I assume the working girls dont get paid for completing it, also?   then all's fair ..... 

[Ali Katt]

I won't be doing the survey. I can smell a feminist a mile off (if you don't believe me read what these people have published) - little Naomi Woolf wannabes. I would sooner have a pint with a Jihadist than a Marxist.

[benstokes]

Well that's was FUN. Gives you an idea how my Saturday night has been.

[alberio]

Filled in, had to think about my habits a little - I have slowed down a bit in the last 2 years.

Was expecting a 'Thank you for your support' at the last question rather then 'THE END' when completing. Seemed a little terminal.

[Ali Katt]

These "boffins" have links to SAAFE and uglymugs and publish feminist literature. The report will be all punters are sad cunts, spouse abusers and sex addicts.

[fairfield]

These "boffins" have links to SAAFE and uglymugs and publish feminist literature. The report will be all punters are sad cunts, spouse abusers and sex addicts.

+1, - just watched their 6 min 'explanatory' video. Collecting info to better "police" and "regulate" the sex industry. Completing this survey seems like turkeys voting for Xmas.

[Ludwig]

These "boffins" have links to SAAFE and uglymugs and publish feminist literature. The report will be all punters are sad cunts, spouse abusers and sex addicts.

Spot on Ali ...




I've read through the questionnaire, their External Link/Members Only and watched their External Link/Members Only -   Excuse my cynicism  - but "same old, fucking same old"  ...

..We really want customers who want to take part to have opportunity to be part of the research and not left out. Rosie

Really?

There are numerous proclamations of what the Project considers to be "the three key beneficiary groups who are collaborators on the project:
"Sex workers who work online and the broader sex work community;
Sex work projects and practitioners who work with sex workers - both statutory and third sector, including sexual health practitioners who deliver specific clinical services to sex workers;
Police through the National Police Chief 's Council, the national police Lead for Sex Work & policy makers (such as local and national government)"

As ever with all these all-encompassing research projects into the sex industry, there is effectively no mention of  any input by or impact upon one hugely important stake-holder (excuse the buzzword) - namely, the end-user ... the punter ... me ... the members of this forum

There are entire sections on the project's website devoted to the input of, and benefits of the project to, the Sex Workers and the Practitioners - but as far as I can see, absolutely no overt mention of any proposed input by punters. It doesn't even seem to have occurred to these academics that any improvements of Sex Industry regulation and its Health & Safety aspects may also benefit the punter.

I am not suspicious of this type of research because I find it "intrusive" - I am cynical because the end results / published theses etc never accurately portray the average punter to be as I have found him/her to be from my own personal experience.  The punting community is already in the invidious position of being one of the most vilified and stigmatised in the UK - despite the fact that our hobby is legal and involves consenting adults, and has been going on since cave-(wo)mankind first sussed out the concept of exchange of services

If all the project's official literature is not prepared even to openly acknowledge that the punter's input is being, or has been, sought, then what relevance in the final reckoning do you think will be accorded to such (our) input ?  [Excepting of course that you can bet your bottom dollar that those who are sympathetic to the Nordic/Swedish Model will try to use answers to question 39 to justify criminalising the purchase of sexual services]...


Seen it all before - yawn ...

[Zeusthedoc]

I'll be interested to see if RosieBTG has a response to the concerns posted here...

[Apu]

I thought I answered everything then saw 20% completed, no thanks....I'll need a free punt if you want me to spend more than 2 minutes

[tesla]

I have met Teela Sanders some years ago when she interviewed me at Leeds University. She was researching the industry for a book.
She was non judgemental and all her questions were reasonable.

[Horizontal pleasures]

Have completed it - sensible questions.  Only took a few minutes.

+1

[cueball]

These "boffins" have links to SAAFE and uglymugs and publish feminist literature. The report will be all punters are sad cunts, spouse abusers and sex addicts.

That's how I see it too

I notice Rosie never came back to tell us her own opinion of the paid sex industry.

Any benefits that come from this won't be for the punter.

[Zeusthedoc]

That's how I see it too

I notice Rosie never came back to tell us her own opinion of the paid sex industry.

Any benefits that come from this won't be for the punter.

She did say earlier in the thread about being on leave.

[Ali Katt]

They're feminists with a small f. They're not friends of punters, nobody is. There isn't a government funded scheme to stop punters being ripped off or even threatened by Sergei and there never will. Feminists want women to play the victim as they can justify their hatred towards the male species.

[Dr Watson 60]

I looked but did not complete.  The purpose of the survey is not made specific. I would have thought that any academic with any intelligence would have been able to work out the impact of the internet on the sex industry .  If this was a genuine reason I do not understand why there were no questions about what we did before the internet age.Given that our universities are government funded I hope the results will not be used to  suggest that draconian laws against the industry or the use of the internet for sex related purposes are imposed.

[mrhappypants]

I looked but did not complete.  The purpose of the survey is not made specific. I would have thought that any academic with any intelligence would have been able to work out the impact of the internet on the sex industry .  If this was a genuine reason I do not understand why there were no questions about what we did before the internet age.Given that our universities are government funded I hope the results will not be used to  suggest that draconian laws against the industry or the use of the internet for sex related purposes are imposed.

I disagree.  I think if you asked the vast majority of the population, that does not punt, they would have very little idea of how Adultwork, and progressively UKP, are completely altering punting in this country.  I had literally no idea before I stared punting, and no idea what a "walk-up" was.  This is a very taboo hobby and most people not directly involved have little insight and do not discuss.  Given the majority of punters will not remember more a time before the Internet I cannot see the point of asking dated retrospective questions either.

[fairfield]

....most people not directly involved have little insight and do not discuss. 

Sorry but this line made me smile. I wouldn't underestimate the great british public. My old (bitch) boss in the early 90's ran 2 brothels and a 100+ busy government office - and often blurred the lines between them. May not have been 'discussed' but it was common knowledge.
She even got a 3rd job as a Select Committee parliamentary adviser - despite openly boasting she hadn't a scooby about their remit. Ofc it was obvious that it was her other services the mp's were interested in.
So the idea that these poor naïve politicians need to be 'informed' by such prurient poking around like this 'research' is completely laughable.   
 

[socks]

Sorry but this line made me smile. I wouldn't underestimate the great british public. My old (bitch) boss in the early 90's ran 2 brothels and a 100+ busy government office - and often blurred the lines between them. May not have been 'discussed' but it was common knowledge.
She even got a 3rd job as a Select Committee parliamentary adviser - despite openly boasting she hadn't a scooby about their remit. Ofc it was obvious that it was her other services the mp's were interested in.
So the idea that these poor naïve politicians need to be 'informed' by such prurient poking around like this 'research' is completely laughable.   
 

i suspect this example is one fuck off massive exception to the rule happy pants is suggesting

[fairfield]

What about all the cards in phone boxes and newsagents windows? - before the femin-nazis went to town on them. I think people would see them, but not see them. Not discussing something is not the same as not knowing about it.
(Were they the forerunner for AW?)

[Lucky Luke 70]

... the vast majority of the population, that does not punt, they would have very little idea of how Adultwork, and progressively UKP, are completely altering punting in this country.  I had literally no idea before I stared punting, and no idea what a "walk-up" was.  This is a very taboo hobby and most people not directly involved have little insight and do not discuss.

I tend to think like MrHP. Still 2 years ago, I did not know you could find escorts on the web and book them nearly as easily as buying books on Amazon. I started on AW only 1 year ago and UKP this year. And I see myself as the average Joe (Jean actually because I'm french  ).
I was attracted to the world of punting after reading a long article from The Economist about this exact topic (not exactly erotic cartoons  ). No real surprise, they clearly take the side of free market and support the idea that internet is a large improvement for everyone (more safety with UKP/SAAFE, less ladies in the streets at night, etc.)
External Link/Members Only

[Ali Katt]

I disagree.  I think if you asked the vast majority of the population, that does not punt, they would have very little idea of how Adultwork, and progressively UKP, are completely altering punting in this country.  I had literally no idea before I stared punting, and no idea what a "walk-up" was.  This is a very taboo hobby and most people not directly involved have little insight and do not discuss.  Given the majority of punters will not remember more a time before the Internet I cannot see the point of asking dated retrospective questions either.

Most people won't know what adultwork or uglymugs or anyone else is. Most still think prossies are malignant street walkers; the biggest change for altering this perception was not a report some trout sniffer wrote and nobody read, but the books of Belle du Jour and the TV series Secret Diaries of a Call Girl and maybe even 500 Shades of Grey (not prostitution related, but maybe made people curious about fetish clubs\websites and the like). Joe Public doesn't give rat's ass about a sex worker's periodical anymore than he does about Thai Hip-Hop.

[Titi]

Call me ignorant but I've never understood why anyone would research punting. Wanting/having Sex is a basic human need like having a shit. If the rest of society wasn't so uptight and prudish about Sex, punting wouldn't exist.

P.S how do we know this is not a covert ruse from mumsnet? 

[Tierney]

Call me ignorant but I've never understood why anyone would research punting. Wanting/having Sex is a basic human need like having a shit. If the rest of society wasn't so uptight and prudish about Sex, punting wouldn't exist.

P.S how do we know this is not a covert ruse from mumsnet?

"Roise" registered in May and waited until a few days ago before posting so that gave admin plenty of time to do a bit of research and see how legit he/she/it/they are. Whoever created that survey has certainly put a fair bit of effort into it but they've created something that's tried to cover every single aspect of the sex industry when they should have just focused on one part, i.e. street walkers, parlours, indies, camgirls.

[Ali Katt]

Call me ignorant but I've never understood why anyone would research punting. Wanting/having Sex is a basic human need like having a shit. If the rest of society wasn't so uptight and prudish about Sex, punting wouldn't exist.

P.S how do we know this is not a covert ruse from mumsnet?

You're spot on about the top bit. People who write these academic journals on trivial subjects are hobbyists, I don't mean hobbyist as in a euphemism for punter or escort. They've turned some sad obsession into a paid career, no fucker reads them because they are boring. How many of these periodicals has the average punter or prossie read? Zero? Maybe skim read one or two? I've read academic texts and they don't engage anyone. Students only read them if they are forced to. They are poorly written in the same way The Guardian is poorly written. Up its own arse and insipid. I'm a punter and have zero interest in reading academic texts on the subject of prostitution. These professors either have some do-gooder mentality about liberating women, some obsession because they would get turned down from a dayshift in some fleapit parlour or possibly and I'm just guessing they are latching onto some populist subject to push unpopular ideologies on the public, their main campaign seems to be to get more women into politics - I am not going to put out conspiracy theories as to why, but I know I am not wrong on this. I know how these cultural Marxists work.

I'm not anti-academics by they way. I just think these are a waste of university funding and possibly public money. Research papers which could cure illness, or creating excellent fictional writing or advancing technology are a much better use of time and money.

It's not a mumsnet ruse, Admin wouldn't allow it.

[Titi]

It's not a mumsnet ruse, Admin wouldn't allow it.

  added that for humour. No doubt someone from mumsnet is probably reading this.

[Mr Farkyhars]

Done. It took me a quarter of an hour, I'd be surprised if anyone did it in less. The questions could be tweaked a bit to prevent ambiguity; asking about webcamming in the same survey as asking about escorting is asking for trouble. And someone needs to learn how to spell 'discreet'

[regular_guy]

i filled it in,  didn't see any of it as over intrusive, there are some questions at the end about rough location, age and wages so they can create a demographic but i felt anonymity was preserved

[BogBog1]

Done. Will be really interested to see the results.

[sloopjohnb]

i filled it in,  didn't see any of it as over intrusive, there are some questions at the end about rough location, age and wages so they can create a demographic but i felt anonymity was preserved

You'll be as anonymous as your IP address. See External Link/Members Only for example.

[Bangers and Gash]

You'll be as anonymous as your IP address.

 

What is it they say about fight club? 

[mh]

You'll be as anonymous as your IP address.

 
What is it they say about fight club? 

Is it "the first rule is use a proxy"? 

[Kerosene]

Completed it. Unless there's a sensible discussion in the mainstream then mainstream attitudes will never change. If this starts that discussion, and the punting community can have some input to it then it's all good by me.

[tesla]

P.S how do we know this is not a covert ruse from mumsnet?

I have met and been interviewed by Dr Teela Sanders at Leeds University some years ago, she is genuine and non judgemental

[vw]

I have met and been interviewed by Dr Teela Sanders at Leeds University some years ago, she is genuine and non judgemental

Well not while you were in the room,  anyone's guess what happens after your interview.

Most research it's to find a solution to a problem.   I would love to know what this lot have listed as the problem?

[Ali Katt]

Well not while you were in the room,  anyone's guess what happens after your interview.

Most research it's to find a solution to a problem.   I would love to know what this lot have listed as the problem?

Agreed. Tony Blair and Robert Mugabe are probably nice if you invite them round for a cup of tea and a bit of bugle.

[Ali Katt]

Completed it. Unless there's a sensible discussion in the mainstream then mainstream attitudes will never change. If this starts that discussion, and the punting community can have some input to it then it's all good by me.

I agree, but a bunch of feminists with desires on becoming the next Harriet Harman aren't going to help. The reality is as a punter you are marginalised and nobody is going to accept it as normal anytime soon. Poofs in dresses (sorry transexuals) are more likely to share female changing rooms and paedos adopt children than punting being seen as acceptable as internet dating.

[DrGFreeman]

I completed the survey.  If you follow the links on the project website they seem to be actual academics and their published research seemed balanced to me. In some cases they seem to be advocating against the Swedish model –common sense may yet prevail.

A huge weakness to me is the research relies on working ladies volunteering to complete an online survey. I think the ladies of SAAFE are likely to contribute, but then they are older and largely british. This is also the demographic that responded to a External Link/Members Only. But my experience is of mainly eastern european girls and younger.  These girls are not going to fill it in but if you’re were trying to gauge exploitation, this is who you should be talking to.

[Mr Farkyhars]

You'll be as anonymous as your IP address

Which with my ISP often changes. Don't ask me why, let alone how.

The reality is as a punter you are marginalised and nobody is going to accept it as normal anytime soon

The more you insist that "nobody is going to accept it as normal anytime soon" the more you'll drown out the voices of those who accept it as normal.

[Ali Katt]

Which with my ISP often changes. Don't ask me why, let alone how.

The more you insist that "nobody is going to accept it as normal anytime soon" the more you'll drown out the voices of those who accept it as normal.

Possibly, but I don't want to see people misled. A report which nobody will read written by two feminists won't work in the punter's favour. Where are all these men's charities, there seems to be fuck all. Women are over represented. It's pushing us backwards and saying nothing which hasn't been said before.

[Brazilian Martian]

Possibly, but I don't want to see people misled. A report which nobody will read written by two feminists won't work in the punter's favour. Where are all these men's charities, there seems to be fuck all. Women are over represented. It's pushing us backwards and saying nothing which hasn't been said before.

+1000

[DrGFreeman]

Possibly, but I don't want to see people misled. A report which nobody will read written by two feminists won't work in the punter's favour. Where are all these men's charities, there seems to be fuck all. Women are over represented. It's pushing us backwards and saying nothing which hasn't been said before.

Have you read the project website ?

[vw]

Have you read the project website ?

Have you read between the lines?   

[5th Musketeer]

Possibly, but I don't want to see people misled. A report which nobody will read written by two feminists won't work in the punter's favour. Where are all these men's charities, there seems to be fuck all. Women are over represented. It's pushing us backwards and saying nothing which hasn't been said before.

What makes you think that feminists are all AGAINST paid-for sex?  They could just as easily be for it because it allows women to choose how they treat their own bodies and what they do with them, rather than abiding by a strict norm dictated by men..

[Ali Katt]

What makes you think that feminists are all AGAINST paid-for sex?  They could just as easily be for it because it allows women to choose how they treat their own bodies and what they do with them, rather than abiding by a strict norm dictated by men..

Feminism is a stick to beat men with. It was noble to begin with, equal work right for women and votes. It was exploited to make all men appear inferior. The women doing these surveys are trying to become MPs. Most feminists see a man having sex with a woman as a rape, they do not see prostitutes as being liberated, but abuse victims. The main people who are against prostitution are women, don't believe me look at mumsnet. If a woman suports prostitution their fraternity won't class them as a proper feminist; much like if a Muslim doesn't support Shariah law people in his community would see him as a traitor.

[DrGFreeman]

Have you read between the lines?

]I sppent half an hour browsing the project website, following some of the links and looking at the other work they had done
to me it seemed evidence based rather an opinionated. The mini study shown in particular is the sort of info I would like on legislators' desks :
Summary and recommendations
..
Policy with decriminalisation as its focus would work towards improving relationships with the police, by removing threats of enforcement and channelling resources into exploitative situations.  
The findings provide further evidence that a move towards the ‘Swedish Model’ – criminalising the purchase of sex – would be detrimental to sex worker’s safety.  
We would recommend that sex workers be allowed to legally work together, as this is the main way in which they believe their safety will be enhance

Maybe I don't share your paranoia, but I'm not feeling this conspiracy theory. Please, share your evidence ?

[Ali Katt]

Rosie Campbell is a supporter of Nicola Sturgeon, she is a Marxist feminist who has her eye on becoming an MP. One way of getting in is by writing research papers. Teela Sanders writes boring papers on sex from feminist points of view, she has no real interest in punter's politics. Have a look what they've published, maybe watch a few of their interviews.

Nothing to do with reading between the lines or conspiracy theories, if it looks like a duck and quacks. I've already said I would rather have a pint with a Jihadi than a Marxist. I also know punters have no support. We are a group of men who fuck women in exchange for money. Other than MGTOW whose going to support that? Any one can see that.