Escorts and tax

[Doc Holliday]

And why would they want to tell you that 8 other girls are under investigation.   They do not disclose any information. 

It's not clear from the original post, but I took it not to mean 8 different girls under investigation, but that the one person had received eight separate payments from various sources which were under investigation?

Edit above just confirmed by Hullad

[Doc Holliday]

.. getting anyone's address is not difficult and no doubt the bank provided info when asked to.

My understanding is that the information is held by HMRC anyway?

External Link/Members Only

[Trpy]

I have no idea why they are investigating, but they are and getting anyone's address is not difficult and no doubt the bank provided info when asked to. There data banks have everyone's details and my name is quite unique in fact I know of one other person with the same name. I do know the lady works in the care system and some of the practices within that sector leave a lot to desired.


 Its not  8 SPs they are talking to but 8 payees into accounts sorry if they look ambiguous.

I just don't like government departments hanging around me, I am wary now of drawing money out to pay an SP wondering who is watching and why.

Thanks for the additional information  .   

This doesn't sound to me like a normal tax investigation.  They wouldn't be interested in something so current, and also as there are other people involved.
Also they are not interested in who is making the payment, just who is receiving it.

It is also strange that they have not told you what they are investigating

My guess is that they suspect something else and are fishing for further information/evidence.

I would strongly urge you to get professional advice.  You could end up implicating yourself by an unguarded comment if you go it alone
It will cost you, but may well be the cheaper option in the end.

Good luck


 

[tintin100]

This is my take on HMRC
They have not the time or man power to check the eBay, Etsy, escorts, normal business tax affairs.
Not a chance. Covid is still a get out of jail free card. They do not kick your door down if you don’t pay vat, company tax, personal tax. I’m not condoning HMRC stance as in my opinion it’s messed up business and business to business payments and It’s all down to covid.
As a side note, I know escorts who do pay tax and some do pay a lot of tax

Agree, it actually cost them more to delve into your business then tax recovered from their investigation.

[jimbobted]

Perhaps someone has tipped them off. It's very easy to report tax evasion to HMRC, I've done it myself a couple of times.

[val33]

I know which escort you're referring to, I've seen her once. My guess is that her bank got suspicious and tipped off HMRC, she told me she had almost finished paying off her mortgage with the supplementary money she earned escorting. Big red flag as to where the money is coming from.

[s0whatsnew?]

Back in my yoof, I shared a squat with a bunch of junkies; 2 girls, 2 guys.  The 2 girls worked in a Kings Cross brothel.   The 2 guys were dealing.   It was then that I realized the close link between hard drugs and prostitution.   So if hmrc are doing a strong investigation on an SP, for whatever reason, its possible that they  (hmrc)  have a maybe drug connection as part of their enquiries.   Hence their interest in who paid the SP.  So be careful out there. 

[petermisc]

My guess is that her bank got suspicious and tipped off HMRC, she told me she had almost finished paying off her mortgage with the supplementary money she earned escorting. Big red flag as to where the money is coming from.

That does sound a likely scenario.  Someone who starts paying in significant sums of money, on top of their regular PAYE income, is going to raise a flag.  So HMRC will be wondering where this money has been coming from, especially if she has not registered for self assessment.  The bank transfers are far easier to investigate than anonymous cash deposits.

As others have noted, the current tax year has not yet ended.  However, anyone on self assessment is required to pay tax in advance, part by end of July and part by end of January (effectively pay as you go during the tax year, rather than the taxman having to wait a year or more for back payment).  So, if she was earning extra income during the previous 2022-23 tax year, and failed to declare it, she will almost certainly also have failed to declare her projected earnings for this tax year, and failed to make the advance payments.  Which may be why they are already looking at this year's unexpected income.  If she is receiving income that she could reasonably have been able to predict when she made her previous tax declaration, then she will already be owing money that is racking up a hefty interest rate.  And of course if she has failed to register for self assessment, that will also incur penalties.

HMRC are not interested in the OP, just interested in why he made the payment to the person they are investigating.  But as others have said, it would be advisable not to behave in a way which could cause them to become suspicious of him.  If someone is non cooperative, the investigator will likely start to wonder why.  Even if someone has done nothing wrong, just having to complete several year's worth of historical income tax declarations is a lot of hassle.

Some years ago, I started earning some extra non taxed income.  I dutifully reported it to HMRC, but despite several reminders, I got no tax demand.  I finally realised, just in time, that they were waiting for me to miss the deadline for registering for self assessment.  After which no doubt they would have stung me with the penalty and back interest.  Of course, it is your responsibility to check if you are required to register,  HMRC will not prompt you to do so.

[Count Duckula]

This is my take on HMRC
They have not the time or man power to check the eBay, Etsy, escorts, normal business tax affairs.
Not a chance. Covid is still a get out of jail free card. They do not kick your door down if you don’t pay vat, company tax, personal tax. I’m not condoning HMRC stance as in my opinion it’s messed up business and business to business payments and It’s all down to covid.
As a side note, I know escorts who do pay tax and some do pay a lot of tax

"They2 dont need to do this manually.

there are automated systems that will analyse transactions and then flag anything that matches whatever conditions they have told it to look for. letters etc can be triggered, payment taken without a human ever going near it apart from saying what to look for. The joy of AI will enable even more

[Doc Holliday]

"They2 dont need to do this manually.

there are automated systems that will analyse transactions and then flag anything that matches whatever conditions they have told it to look for. letters etc can be triggered, payment taken without a human ever going near it apart from saying what to look for. The joy of AI will enable even more

Indeed for those are 'dismissing' HMRC just google HMRC Connect.

[jamiekinkxxx]

I've worked on IT system implementations at HMRC, esp. with their new cloud based system. They are all interconnected, they are all automated, they do not need as much man power now, other than to start a detailed investigation once they have received the flag.

As others have said, they will start with the big fish first and then work their way down the list.

[PilotMan]

I've worked on IT system implementations at HMRC, esp. with their new cloud based system. They are all interconnected, they are all automated, they do not need as much man power now, other than to start a detailed investigation once they have received the flag.

As others have said, they will start with the big fish first and then work their way down the list.

Exactly, so those people who think they're under the radar with their eBay / Etsy side hustles might have a little surprise coming from an automated system.

All HMRC need to do is run a report on eBay.

e.g. show me: "Sellers with Multiple items adding up to more than £1k over a 12 month period"

Follow that by sending those sellers an automated letter asking them to provide their UTR

Then cross check and match the identity on eBay and UTR / tax filing and income against funds received from eBay

Identify discrepancies

Send follow up letter with a tax demand and / or penalty.

[hairdownthere]

I've worked on IT system implementations at HMRC, esp. with their new cloud based system. They are all interconnected, they are all automated, they do not need as much man power now, other than to start a detailed investigation once they have received the flag.

As others have said, they will start with the big fish first and then work their way down the list.

I was involved in beta testing, it's a good system!!!

I for sure wouldn't want to be trying a hustle

[PilotMan]

I was involved in beta testing, it's a good system!!!

Were you a target or tester 

[8MillionDollarMan]

I was involved in beta testing, it's a good system!!!

I for sure wouldn't want to be trying a hustle

Like Horizon? 

[hairdownthere]

Were you a target or tester 

A tester thankfully!  The system they are using can drill down to fractions on a pence, very quickly and precisely.

The online seller flag is 30+ sales or £1k and it gets automatically flagged to HMRC who then decide if it gets investigated or not.

I have to call into question the OP being told how many deposits they were checking for a particular person, that goes against data protection, unless all the deposits were coming from the same account.

[martin1964]

Considering the UK sex industry is worth around £7 Billion a year (various sources indicate between 5-10) even if this is taxed at 20% it's still worth £1.4 billion in tax, some of it will be collected but I suspect a big chunk isn't.

There was even a HMRC Sex Worker Task Force in the past, so it must have been worthwhile, now with advancements in AI I guess it's even easier to find those who are not paying their way. Not sure if the task force is still going though...

[Punting2022]

I was involved in beta testing, it's a good system!!!

I for sure wouldn't want to be trying a hustle

Yes, all it takes is for a bank to report it as suspicious and i guess the chain is started. Large cash deposits weekly in the account is enough maybe.

Back to the op post. I used to pay sugar babies via transfer. Anything to worry about

[Bru1901]

There was an article recently about an onlyfans account holder snd her bent accountant who was declaring false income

She had 400k revenue in onmyfans and paid f all in tax.

I doubt anyone during covid paid tax on onlyfans income and they deserve to get investigated if they evaded as much as 400k.

[robbie54321]

The loyal HRMC fans on this thread are making me laugh

Is it only me who thinks good luck to the girls?

HMRC rules, council tax rules, parking and motor charges, capital gains, corporation tax, PAYE, NI, insurance tax, you can’t give your money away with the government wanted to know why,  I think the Mafia would run a fairer system.😂

[RedKettle]

The loyal HRMC fans on this thread are making me laugh

Is it only me who thinks good luck to the girls?

HMRC rules, council tax rules, parking and motor charges, capital gains, corporation tax, PAYE, NI, insurance tax, you can’t give your money away with the government wanted to know why,  I think the Mafia would run a fairer system.😂

Do you understand the link between taxation and things like schools, hospitals, pensions etc etc etc?

Do you comprehend the fairness or otherwise of blokes being taxed on their earnings and WGs taking them tax free?

[tintin100]

Do you understand the link between taxation and things like schools, hospitals, pensions etc etc etc?

Do you comprehend the fairness or otherwise of blokes being taxed on their earnings and WGs taking them tax free?

There is a very big black economy out there. I was refurbishing out a big Edwardian house and have spent close to 100k. Out of all the trades people that we use, only 4 was OK with bank transfers or cards. Some where quite specific about wanting cash only.

[lewisjones23]

The loyal HRMC fans on this thread are making me laugh

Is it only me who thinks good luck to the girls?

HMRC rules, council tax rules, parking and motor charges, capital gains, corporation tax, PAYE, NI, insurance tax, you can’t give your money away with the government wanted to know why,  I think the Mafia would run a fairer system.😂

One of my businesses is 90% cash, I literally declare none of that and use it as a slush fund for day to day spending across everything else

I have zero faith in the government spending taxes is a proper way so I give them as little as possible

[lewisjones23]

Do you understand the link between taxation and things like schools, hospitals, pensions etc etc etc?

Do you comprehend the fairness or otherwise of blokes being taxed on their earnings and WGs taking them tax free?

Since when has life been fair?

[RedKettle]

Since when has life been fair?

So if something is wrong it is OK for you to add to that?  Not an attitude I take.

It is a fact that some people break into houses and nick stuff, it is not right and not an excuse for me to do the same.

[RedKettle]

One of my businesses is 90% cash, I literally declare none of that and use it as a slush fund for day to day spending across everything else

I have zero faith in the government spending taxes is a proper way so I give them as little as possible

If we all did that we would be screwed - like Greece.

[RedKettle]

There is a very big black economy out there. I was refurbishing out a big Edwardian house and have spent close to 100k. Out of all the trades people that we use, only 4 was OK with bank transfers or cards. Some where quite specific about wanting cash only.

What is your point?  People do stuff they should not?  Yes I know.  That means we all can?  Not my attitude.

Although it is an assumption that people who ask for cash are avoiding tax, not always the case.

[8MillionDollarMan]

not always the case.

But mostly.

[jamiekinkxxx]

@LewisJones and @Robbie.... I'll come around burgle you house and then mug you when you are on your way back from the pub... that's OK by the way you view things.

This is what is wrong with many people in our society now. Can't see the big picture, only look out for themselves.

"If is OK for someone else to do it, then it is OK for me"
"The system is broken, so I'm not partaking"

So what about the already struggling tax payers... if you and other were honest (and yes Govt more efficient) we would have better public services without higher taxes or the existing public services for the same taxes, which equals for example, quicker A&E and better paid nurses.

No wonder this country is fucked with guys like you.

[Blackpool Rock]

@LewisJones and @Robbie.... I'll come around burgle you house and then mug you when you are on your way back from the pub... that's OK by the way you view things.

This is what is wrong with many people in our society now. Can't see the big picture, only look out for themselves.

"If is OK for someone else to do it, then it is OK for me"
"The system is broken, so I'm not partaking"

So what about the already struggling tax payers... if you and other were honest (and yes Govt more efficient) we would have better public services without higher taxes or the existing public services for the same taxes, which equals for example, quicker A&E and better paid nurses.

No wonder this country is fucked with guys like you.

But perhaps people are taking their lead and following the examples set to them by big business and those who rule over us and have fiddled their way to the top for centuries 
Can't say any more without going into politics

[PilotMan]

@LewisJones and @Robbie....

No wonder this country is fucked with guys like you.

Probably the type of assholes who will complain that they can't get a hospital appointment, there's pot holes in the road, the government are shit, etc, etc.

And also probably not actually inclined to do something about it themselves like stand as a Councillor or other official, while happily cunting those people off for doing a shit job.

We've all met those types, whingers, complainers and blamers.

[PilotMan]

But perhaps people are taking their lead and following the examples set to them by big business and those who rule over us and have fiddled their way to the top for centuries 
Can't say any more without going into politics

Another one saying it's ok to do shit things and trying to lay the blame at someone else's door.

Be the best version of yourself, not a waster blaming your behaviour on others.

[lewisjones23]

@LewisJones and @Robbie.... I'll come around burgle you house and then mug you when you are on your way back from the pub... that's OK by the way you view things.

This is what is wrong with many people in our society now. Can't see the big picture, only look out for themselves.

"If is OK for someone else to do it, then it is OK for me"
"The system is broken, so I'm not partaking"

So what about the already struggling tax payers... if you and other were honest (and yes Govt more efficient) we would have better public services without higher taxes or the existing public services for the same taxes, which equals for example, quicker A&E and better paid nurses.

No wonder this country is fucked with guys like you.

We wouldn't have better services at all.

The political party in power at the time, and they're all as bad as each other, would find some other way to piss it up the wall/hand it out to whoever/waste it on a ridiculous vanity project

[lewisjones23]

If we all did that we would be screwed - like Greece.

Not everyone can do that though can they, so it is a situation that won't happen

People on PAYE payment systems cannot escape, those self-employed can

I pay a fair amount in to the ' system ', likely more than the average amount and certainly more than I get back out.

So excuse me for not wanting to have my pants taken down even more by HMRC 👍🏻

[southcoastpunter]

By all means use any legal means to reduce tax - but tax evaders are just scum!! No better than Pimps and drug dealers imo

[Blackpool Rock]

Another one saying it's ok to do shit things and trying to lay the blame at someone else's door.

Be the best version of yourself, not a waster blaming your behaviour on others.

When have I said that it's OK or that I agree with tax evasion 

What i'm saying is that many people in general will justify it on the back of looking at what big business and multi millionaires do, how do you think half of those rich people originally got rich  I can tell you for many of them it wasn't by playing the rule book 100% straight 

[lewisjones23]

By all means use any legal means to reduce tax - but tax evaders are just scum!! No better than Pimps and drug dealers imo

Bit of a jump to compare someone who under declares income to reduce their tax bill against someone who peddles heroin to single mothers on a housing estate 🤷🏻‍♂️

[southcoastpunter]

Bit harsh maybe - but it’s more than just “under declaring your income” - it’s tax evasion, pure and simple!
And ALL tax evaders are low life in my opinion!! If you don’t want to pay your legally due tax in the uk , then jog off somewhere else!!
Ps - I don’t LIKE paying tax anymore than the next guy, but accept it necessary!!

[Blackpool Rock]

Quite a lot of moralising on this thread however most people either currently or at some point have contributed to this tax evasion issue whether they are actually aware of it or not.

I worked somewhere about 20 years ago and there were people selling pirate CD's and DVD's, I refused to buy them as it's clearly illegal and I didn't want any shit from HR when it finally got busted, I then found out that the HR Manager was even buying them FFS 

And for those looking down from their ivory towers and throwing stones from their greenhouses we all know that escorts either don't pay any tax on their cash in hand earnings or almost certainly don't pay the full amount, therefore anyone using them is complicit in tax evasion and their morals should dictate that they stop immediately - FACT 
Anyone moralising about this and now not stopping is a hypocrite - FACT 2 

[RedKettle]

And for those looking down from their ivory towers and throwing stones from their greenhouses we all know that escorts either don't pay any tax on their cash in hand earnings or almost certainly don't pay the full amount, therefore anyone using them is complicit in tax evasion and their morals should dictate that they stop immediately - FACT 
Anyone moralising about this and now not stopping is a hypocrite - FACT 2 

That is to say the least faulty logic. When I pay an escort cash I do not know she will evade tax and I am not responsible for her tax affairs. It is bullshit to say I am complicit. Especially as there are good reasons driven by customers for it being cash.

If a tradesman offers me a cheaper price for cash then yes I would be complicit. Which is why I decline the kind offer and pay by bank transfer.

[RedKettle]

Not everyone can do that though can they, so it is a situation that won't happen

People on PAYE payment systems cannot escape, those self-employed can

I pay a fair amount in to the ' system ', likely more than the average amount and certainly more than I get back out.

So excuse me for not wanting to have my pants taken down even more by HMRC 👍🏻

How much to pay is not your decision. If you disagree with the tax system here either get yourself elected as an MP and change it or piss off to another country.

[Blackpool Rock]

That is to say the least faulty logic. When I pay an escort cash I do not know she will evade tax and I am not responsible for her tax affairs. It is bullshit to say I am complicit. Especially as there are good reasons driven by customers for it being cash.

If a tradesman offers me a cheaper price for cash then yes I would be complicit. Which is why I decline the kind offer and pay by bank transfer.

Sorry but that's just sidestepping the obvious 

[lewisjones23]

How much to pay is not your decision. If you disagree with the tax system here either get yourself elected as an MP and change it or piss off to another country.

Actually it clearly is my decision how much to pay as I fill in my self-assessment and adjust the income/expenses figures to suit

The tax rates set by HMRC/the government aren't my decision

I also don't need to leave the country as I can just fill in the return to suit my needs 👍🏻

[lewisjones23]

Bit harsh maybe - but it’s more than just “under declaring your income” - it’s tax evasion, pure and simple!
And ALL tax evaders are low life in my opinion!! If you don’t want to pay your legally due tax in the uk , then jog off somewhere else!!
Ps - I don’t LIKE paying tax anymore than the next guy, but accept it necessary!!

Bonkers that you have compared people who don't pay all of their tax to drug dealers

I'll have a bit of whatever your dealer serves up to you as you're off your head 🤯

[tintin100]

Not everyone can do that though can they, so it is a situation that won't happen

People on PAYE payment systems cannot escape, those self-employed can

I pay a fair amount in to the ' system ', likely more than the average amount and certainly more than I get back out.

So excuse me for not wanting to have my pants taken down even more by HMRC 👍🏻

If everyone thinks like, the country would be fucked. Most people will never get back on what they paid in. So you think is justifiable to evade tax because you are self employed. We pay tax for things like NHS, education, Policing etc etc, you obviously don't think that is important. Scum.

[lewisjones23]

If everyone thinks like, the country would be fucked. Most people will never get back on what they paid in. So you think is justifiable to evade tax because you are self employed. We pay tax for things like NHS, education, Policing etc etc, you obviously don't think that is important. Scum.

The majority of taxpayers in the UK fall under the PAYE system, so it doesn't matter what they think, so the country won't be fucked.

I pay a fairly hefty tax bill each year to cover unavoidable tax liabilities, I also have another business that is 90% cash based and effectively hidden.

Why the fuck would I declare that when successive governments have shown they are incapable of managing a country properly? It'd go in to the great abyss

[Doc Holliday]

Inevitably with all threads discussing sex work and tax it ends up hostile 

[lewisjones23]

Inevitably with all threads discussing sex work and tax it ends up hostile 

at least this one is a bit different to the usual way they play out slating brasses

[Blackpool Rock]

Inevitably with all threads discussing sex work and tax it ends up hostile 

Who asked you to chip in   

[Blackpool Rock]

at least this one is a bit different to the usual way they play out slating brasses

Yes and who would have thought so many men paying sex workers would actually have turned out to be the virtuous moral compass that everyone in the country should be following