Can a escort be a feminist too?

[Metalgear2018]

I was just read a escort's bio on Twitter. She referred to herself as a "feminists" surely she is contradicting herself?

[hillingdonpete]

I should imagine she would be a shit punt.

[Simmo87]

Feminist fall into two categorys

1,Feminists, females that want both genders equal and treated fairly (and rightly so)
2, Feminazis, who want equal treatment for females for when is suits there agenda and privlage for females when its also suits there agenda

Sadly the 95% of feminist movement is made up of category no 2, and I hope the escort in qeastion falls into category no 1

[ipreferbutts]

Women want equality in the workplace, but not when it comes to dating/sex. In essence, they want to pick and choose when they are equal.

I personally think feminism has ruined everything. Men and women are supposed to complement each other, we were never meant to be equal. Biology did not create us equal - a man and a woman have different duties in life, and the sooner we see that, the better society will become. That doesn't mean one gender is "better" than the other, it just means we're good at different things.

[Ali Katt]

Feminist fall into two categorys

1,Feminists, females that want both genders equal and treated fairly (and rightly so)
2, Feminazis, who want equal treatment for females for when is suits there agenda and privlage for females when its also suits there agenda

Sadly the 95% of feminist movement is made up of category no 2, and I hope the escort in qeastion falls into category no 1

The first one is just common sense. I would actually say most people wouldn't even class that as feminism. I've seen a lot of women who call themselves feminists as part of some sort identification, it has become almost a fashion statement.

[freeze44]

Sure they can and be free to do as they choose. Part that would concern me is when I want to spank their ass, cim and tell them what a good girl they've been might not go down well?!

[Ali Katt]

Sure they can and be free to do as they choose. Part that would concern me is when I want to spank their ass, cim and tell them what a good girl they've been might not go down well?!

The beauty of dom is the girl is always in control, she is influencing you to act a certain way to please her. You can tell me I'm wrong I'm not as experienced as you in that area, but that was my impression.

[freeze44]

The beauty of dom is the girl is always in control, she is influencing you to act a certain way to please her. You can tell me I'm wrong I'm not as experienced as you in that area, but that was my impression.

Actually a good point that...agree its the sub in control and in other areas women who use their natural talents can twist men round there finger!...no experience of dom stuff just fun to do different things now and again!

[Ali Katt]

Actually a good point that...agree its the sub in control and in other areas women who use their natural talents can twist men round there finger!...no experience of dom stuff just fun to do different things now and again!

With me it's a more a roleplay\rough sex, but great fun to be a bit nasty and unleash my dark side.

[Herts_Outcaller]

To answer the OP's question seriously

No, it's not a contradiction to be a feminist and sex worker. There is a strand of feminism called "sex-positive feminism" which basically says it's up to a woman if she wants to be a working girl or sleep around, or basically do what she wants.

[HarryZZ]

I think the question is a little naive, it suggests that WGs are doing the job against their will or better judgment, they're actually earning good money doing a mainly enjoyable job, they're more feminist than the dungaree wearing harpies many people normally associate with the word.

[The Owl]

From what I can see there are two types of feminists.

The first type of feminist is the woman who wants to do anything and everything without be judged, discriminated against or marginalised because of her gender. If she gives people shit it's because they are trying to control her.

The second type of feminist is the woman who judges, discriminates against and marginalised other people or groups because of her gender. If she gives people shit it's because she is trying to control them.

The second type of feminist contains women like Julie Bindel. The first type contains the type of feminist that supports sex workers.

[Ali Katt]

From what I can see there are two types of feminists.

The first type of feminist is the woman who wants to do anything and everything without be judged, discriminated against or marginalised because of her gender. If she gives people shit it's because they are trying to control her.

The second type of feminist is the woman who judges, discriminates against and marginalised other people or groups because of her gender. If she gives people shit it's because she is trying to control them.

The second type of feminist contains women like Julie Bindel. The first type contains the type of feminist that supports sex workers.

I don't class the top one as feminism anymore, any reasonable person wants equal pay for women and no gender discrimination. When it goes too far is telling women they should get preferential treatment due to being female.

[Autopunter]

Of course escorts can be feminists, just like I can be a member of the Labour party or the Lib Dems and still be a punter. Of course, lots of feminists hate men, so there's that to factor into account before you book her. But there's nothing intrinsically anti-feminist about sex work (or at least nothing about sex work that the crazier feminists don't already say about giving men blowjobs, marriage etc etc), at least if you take feminism's rhetoric about giving women choice seriously. I just usually find that in civvy and escorting, the women who shout the loudest about being feminists are usually the nuttiest ones out there. But, if you like living dangerously...

[winkywanky]

An Escort can be a feminist if she's genuinely doing it out of choice, and not because she feels she has to, or has no alternative. And also I think, if she's not being in some way damaged by that choice.

She's in charge of her destiny, her body and her business.

Otherwise she's a victim, either of circumstance, or her own bad choice/decision.

[Brokenshed]

Violet Vulgarity aka Whiskey London
Priya Glasgow
Desi Derata London and touring
all feminists and good punt
Probably loads more

[no2punter]

A lot of them are, especially if they're younger, English and of a middle class background.

[bearcat69]

I would tend to not think too highly of a prostitute labelling herself as a feminist. Wouldn't necessarily care all that much about it, and that alone wouldn't put me off an escort in itself. But I definitely wouldn't think much of it.

I believe it egalitarianism. We're all different, and we should celebrate those differences, but everyone deserves equal rights essentially is my view on this type of thing. There's no need for me to label myself as a masculinist because I hold such a view. That would be me specifically emphasizing my difference and implying I have a right to special rights because of it in my opinion, which is the opposite of egalitarianism. Perhaps that's just my white male entitlement talking though, I'm a tool of the Patriarchy. 

It is, in my opinion, a shame that the feminist dialogue has become so, frankly, childish in recent social media fueled times. I do think there's a time and a place for meaningful debate on gender roles and equality in a civil fashion, but I personally see very little of that anymore. Essentially though, to me, it emphasizes that in essence feminism was always unfortunately just a flawed man hating concept, that has now just got out of control.

[king tarzan]

A lot of them are, especially if they're younger, English and of a middle class background.

I love the posh accents

[Fisherman]

Isn't it the ultimate in feminism. I will do what I want it's my body.

As long as there is no outside influence of course

[jeanphillipe]

First wave feminism was necesary. Third wave feminim is codswallop.

[mrhappypants]

First wave feminism was necesary. Third wave feminim is codswallop.

Really?  How then would you explain the enormous differences in access to almost all positions of wealth, power and influence across the world between men and women?

[Ali Katt]

First wave feminism was necesary. Third wave feminim is codswallop.

So was second wave; the second wave was people like Germaine Greer and Andrea Dworkin.

[Ali Katt]

Really?  How then would you explain the enormous differences in access to almost all positions of wealth, power and influence across the world between men and women?

A totally fictitious scenario in the western world. We have two female leaders of two of the richest countries in Europe, we nearly had a female president in the US. We have discrimination laws regarding pay and women can rise to the top positions if they are willing to sacrifice things like giving birth.

[datwabbit]

Being known as a sex worker is feminism.

It suggests choice and empowerment. I am surprised how many use escort when they rarely escort anyone anywhere.

[Ali Katt]

Being known as a sex worker is feminism.

It suggests choice and empowerment. I am surprised how many use escort when they rarely escort anyone anywhere.

Why don't punters call themselves a sex buyer?

[winkywanky]

Sex client sounds more empowered 

[datwabbit]

Why don't punters call themselves a sex buyer?

Because you're buying time, a share of her day.

Time share buyer is better.

[mrhappypants]

A totally fictitious scenario in the western world. We have two female leaders of two of the richest countries in Europe, we nearly had a female president in the US. We have discrimination laws regarding pay and women can rise to the top positions if they are willing to sacrifice things like giving birth.

Totally fictitious? Name any industry apart from prostitution and porn where women have better prospects and earn more than men.

[bearcat69]

Totally fictitious? Name any industry apart from prostitution and porn where women have better prospects and earn more than men.

Really?

Modeling, human resources, child care services, home health care, veterinary services, social services, preschool infant and secondary school education, accountancy, advertising, kinesiology...

[TailSeeker]

Yes it is possible to be a feminist and a sex worker. It is also possible to be a sex worker and not a feminist. Feminism has different branches. At it's main core it should be "I want to be treated/judged as no more or less than a man".

I do identify as a feminist, I get annoyed at how I'm always paid less than my male equivalent, but also how female higher ups judge me more than women (studies show women are better off with a male boss, women hold them back more).

And I do not agree with the fact that women get lighter sentences for crimes than men do. Men may be more physically violent on average, but women tend leave more long lasting psychological scars, so can cripple the same, and as such should get the same sentence.

Luckily a lot of fellow millennials are the same in the UK, and don't view sex work negatively (providing or seeking). But that in part comes from the growing recognition that rarely are people able to be 100% what someone else is seeking.

Really, I view sex work as similar to having a cleaner. It's a necessary job for some, luxury for others, insulting/waste of expense for the rest.

[mrhappypants]

Really?

Modeling, human resources, child care services, home health care, veterinary services, social services, preschool infant and secondary school education, accountancy, advertising, kinesiology...

You don't know what you are talking about.  I have worked in five of the industries (not modelling  ) you mention and family members in two more.  Women do predominate in the majority of the professions you mention (certainly NOT accountancy, absolutely not qualified accountants as opposed to clerks) but at the lower levels and at lower pay.  If you think child care, home health care, social services, preschool infant and secondary school education are paths to equality and success you just showing your level of ignorance.  I have never met a female Finance Director yet and I have met dozens.   There is a huge differential between women and men and it works overwhelming to the advantage of men.

Modelling, I will give you, but how typical an industry is that?

[bearcat69]

If you think child care, home health care, social services, preschool infant and secondary school education are paths to equality and success you just showing your level of ignorance.

I do actually. I'd have a very hard time thinking of more important and influential industries actually.

Looking after the young, looking after the sick, educating children, looking after the elderly and the vulnerable. These are extremely important things actually. Taking care of these priorities leads to unfathomable wealth and success in my opinion.

Thanks for displaying your ignorance though mrhappypants. You did it perfectly.

[winkywanky]

I do identify as a feminist, I get annoyed at how I'm always paid less than my male equivalent, but also how female higher ups judge me more than women (studies show women are better off with a male boss, women hold them back more).

And I do not agree with the fact that women get lighter sentences for crimes than men do. Men may be more physically violent on average, but women tend leave more long lasting psychological scars, so can cripple the same, and as such should get the same sentence.

Really, I view sex work as similar to having a cleaner. It's a necessary job for some, luxury for others, insulting/waste of expense for the rest.

I'd venture that with specific regard to sex work, your male equivalent gets paid waaay less than you do, same as in the porn industry. Your comment about a female boss giving you a harder time than a male boss is interesting, and something that I suspected would be the case. Likewise your comment about jail sentences, although I guess this is often to do with any children that might be involved.

Re: the cleaning, do you do naked cleaning, and do you charge the same rates? 

Joking aside, what do you make of the #MeToo movement? Do you think it's gone too far in some respects?

[mrhappypants]

paths to equality and success

Are not the same as

more important and influential industries.

[bearcat69]

Really?  How then would you explain the enormous differences in access to almost all positions of wealth, power and influence across the world between men and women?

OK 

Keep backtracking.

[TailSeeker]

I'd venture that with specific regard to sex work, your male equivalent gets paid waaay less than you do, same as in the porn industry. Your comment about a female boss giving you a harder time than a male boss is interesting, and something that I suspected would be the case. Likewise your comment about jail sentences, although I guess this is often to do with any children that might be involved.

Re: the cleaning, do you do naked cleaning, and do you charge the same rates? 

Joking aside, what do you make of the #MeToo movement? Do you think it's gone too far in some respects?

With sex work almost certainly women earn more, same with porn. But the main purchases are men, so it's a matter of demand there.

They did do a study, women are more likely to judge harsher female subordinates and less likely to promote them than men. They're also less likely to hire women. But in the same study, women are more likely to be judged by men above them for the performance of women they are in charge of, than men they are in charge of.

I think the #MeToo movement has mostly been good, it's  brought to the forefront and into the public issues women have long dealt with. And it has been amazing that men like Terry Crews have stood up and said they have dealt with similar, to help shut down the faux feminists that claim men can't suffer the same.

I have little time for men who are responding to it by going all woe is me, this means I can't so much as look at a woman without being accused of harassment. It's bollocks. No one is saying that outside of a few too vocal idiots.

Granted a small minority are taking it to an extreme, but they always were there. And not just feminists, I know a few evangelical idiots (women should submit to men) who believe oral sex is always rape. Idiots are in every ideological and belief system.

1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted or raped, 1 in 20 men in the UK. I don't know if the #metoo movement will change that, but much like the Scottish "we can stop it" campaign it is quite rightly shifting the conversation from "women this is how you prevent yourself being sexually harassed and raped" to "men, don't sexually harass or rape". At the same time, I think it is important to do the same to women, the idea that men should always been interested and always in the mood I think is quite harmful.

[mrfishyfoo]

An Escort can be a feminist if she's genuinely doing it out of choice, and not because she feels she has to, or has no alternative. And also I think, if she's not being in some way damaged by that choice.

She's in charge of her destiny, her body and her business.

Otherwise she's a victim, either of circumstance, or her own bad choice/decision.

HAMMER !!! NAIL !!! HEAD !!!

 

[TailSeeker]

I do actually. I'd have a very hard time thinking of more important and influential industries actually.

Looking after the young, looking after the sick, educating children, looking after the elderly and the vulnerable. These are extremely important things actually. Taking care of these priorities leads to unfathomable wealth and success in my opinion.

Thanks for displaying your ignorance though mrhappypants. You did it perfectly.

You are rather shifting goal posts there. First we say pay. Now you're saying they have influence, which isn't true. The majority of head teachers are men, and curriculum comes from the government for state schools.

Also, school teachers earn a pretty shockingly low wage for how much work they do.

Having influence on others does not pay the bills. It's like turning to artists/web designers/photographers and saying it'll be good exposure, that doesn't put food on the table.

I'm bloody fantastic at teaching uni students on the applicable animal model for their research area and the limitations of imaging modalities for such. I've certainly noticed that the way I present myself has had a positive influence on my students, both male and female . But that influence isn't paying my bills. The money I am paid does (barely science money is shite).

[bearcat69]

You are rather shifting goal posts there. First we say pay. Now you're saying they have influence, which isn't true. The majority of head teachers are men, and curriculum comes from the government for state schools.

Also, school teachers earn a pretty shockingly low wage for how much work they do.

Interesting.

Who is this 'we' you speak off?

You are talking about what you are talking. I am talking about what I am talking.

Of course men are the headmasters in most schools. Thousands of years of evolution has programmed them to be more effective leaders.

Having influence on others does not pay the bills. It's like turning to artists/web designers/photographers and saying it'll be good exposure, that doesn't put food on the table.

I'm bloody fantastic at teaching uni students on the applicable animal model for their research area and the limitations of imaging modalities for such. I've certainly noticed that the way I present myself has had a positive influence on my students, both male and female . But that influence isn't paying my bills. The money I am paid does (barely science money is shite).

Are you taking the piss? 

"Putting food on the table" is not an effective measure of higher level success or wealth.

Oh, and now we're disparaging the value of artists. A key indicator of high level thinking and success in society.

Well done dear.

I'm sorry to hear that feminism failed you in your pursuit of wealth in an intellectual career though. That's tough shit. Keep blaming men for it, or sisters that don't tow the line, that'll help you succeed.

[TailSeeker]

Interesting.

Who is this 'we' you speak off?

You are talking about what you are talking. I am talking about what I am talking.

Of course men are the headmasters in most schools. Thousands of years of evolution has programmed them to be more effective leaders.

Are you taking the piss? 

"Putting food on the table" is not an effective measure of higher level success or wealth.

Oh, and now we're disparaging the value of artists. A key indicator of high level thinking and success in society.

Well done dear.

I'm sorry to hear that feminism failed you in your pursuit of wealth in an intellectual career though. That's tough shit. Keep blaming men for it, or sisters that don't tow the line, that'll help you succeed.

At no point did I disparage artists. In fact I was pointing out a complaint brought up quite frequently within the arts. That people devalue their work by saying exposure, practice, love of the art, and other rubbish to try to get them to work for much less or free.

And we certainly do measure as a society success by wealth and the ability to provide for ourselves/family. Being able to feed yourself from the work you do is one of the basics.

I don't blame men or "sisters" for the fact that my work is undervalued. I blame a system that developed over time that expectations on me to go down certain paths and roadblocks to me achieving what I want. I am lucky however that I've had people prepared to go to bat for me over the years and enabled me to get my foot in the door. I now am ensuring I keep going, and I now use my limited influence to help others.

We as a society will benefit when we remove the preconceptions we have about what a person can achieve from stereotypes based on gender and race.

Perhaps that is idealistic of me, but I think a change will benefit everyone. If you know you have gotten where you are because of ability, why be afraid of opening the doors to others who have the same ability. Get rid of the roadblocks that appeared to them simply because of the incidence of their birth not matching yours.

[bearcat69]

At no point did I disparage artists. In fact I was pointing out a complaint brought up quite frequently within the arts. That people devalue their work by saying exposure, practice, love of the art, and other rubbish to try to get them to work for much less or free.

An unfortunate reality of life, is that most people don't just wake up one day and becomes rich without putting in the effort. However, I don't remember advocating that people should just work for free, that's solely your hyperbolic reaction.

And we certainly do measure as a society success by wealth and the ability to provide for ourselves/family. Being able to feed yourself from the work you do is one of the basics

There are quantitive and qualitative measurements of success. Not everybody views things in the same way as yourself. It's simply a great shame that you don't understand this.

I don't blame men or "sisters" for the fact that my work is undervalued. I blame a system that developed over time that expectations on me to go down certain paths and roadblocks to me achieving what I want. I am lucky however that I've had people prepared to go to bat for me over the years and enabled me to get my foot in the door. I now am ensuring I keep going, and I now use my limited influence to help others.

You don't blame men... Then who do you blame for this 'system' which you believe restricts you as a woman?

We as a society will benefit when we remove the preconceptions we have about what a person can achieve from stereotypes based on gender and race.

Perhaps that is idealistic of me, but I think a change will benefit everyone. If you know you have gotten where you are because of ability, why be afraid of opening the doors to others who have the same ability. Get rid of the roadblocks that appeared to them simply because of the incidence of their birth not matching yours.

Ah the old ladder kicker argument.

I don't necessarily completely disagree with you on that one, but I don't necessarily believe it has anything to do with racial or gender discrimination. As I said before, it's easier to blame other people than it is to look inside yourself.

[testuser]

It's considered feminism that a woman can do as she likes with her body. You might think that means being able to sell it.

A spanner in the works is that people believe it's not feminism when it's from economic necessity. That is a woman should always have a better alternative.

The problem is there:

a. We all have to do things we don't like for economic necessity like selling the lions share of our time and our brain's attention/processing powers.
b. Many do it for economic advantage. Try going down the normal route and getting a job that pays 100 an hour easy.
c. Many enjoy selling their body and it is the better alternative.
d. Reality is harsh. Better alternatives don't grow on trees.

[TailSeeker]

An unfortunate reality of life, is that most people don't just wake up one day and becomes rich without putting in the effort. However, I don't remember advocating that people should just work for free, that's solely your hyperbolic reaction.

There are quantitive and qualitative measurements of success. Not everybody views things in the same way as yourself. It's simply a great shame that you don't understand this.

You don't blame men... Then who do you blame for this 'system' which you believe restricts you as a woman?

Ah the old ladder kicker argument.

I don't necessarily completely disagree with you on that one, but I don't necessarily believe it has anything to do with racial or gender discrimination. As I said before, it's easier to blame other people than it is to look inside yourself.

You clearly enjoy benefiting from the current status quo and it's more than obvious that you are afraid that a change would lessen your lifestyle.

So you know what. I'm done with you. You can't admit your own failing in your arguments. And offer nothing of substance to counter. Go argue with someone else.

[vw]

I'm done with you.

Oh dear, I bet he is mortified.   

[mrhappypants]

You clearly enjoy benefiting from the current status quo and it's more than obvious that you are afraid that a change would lessen your lifestyle.

So you know what. I'm done with you. You can't admit your own failing in your arguments. And offer nothing of substance to counter. Go argue with someone else.

Yep I smell troll too.

[bearcat69]

Yep I smell troll too.

Well Admins site, Admins rules.

Feel free to report me if like though. But I don't see how I either trolled or broke any rules though.

A sad day on this site when an established member shouts troll over defending the feelings of a prostitute though, or over not being able to handle a difference of opinion.

[mrfishyfoo]

Well Admins site, Admins rules.

Feel free to report me if like though. But I don't see how I either trolled or broke any rules though.

A sad day on this site when an established member shouts troll over defending the feelings of a prostitute though, or over not being able to handle a difference of opinion.

The only troll I can smell in this particular "discussion" is FEMALE.

Poor little pro$$ie don't get it !!!

Society does not consider her "position/place" as a whore, and for that matter our "position/place" as punters as normal.

Therefore until there is a fundamental shift in "societys position" the answer to the question is NO !!!

[winkywanky]

With sex work almost certainly women earn more, same with porn. But the main purchases are men, so it's a matter of demand there.

They did do a study, women are more likely to judge harsher female subordinates and less likely to promote them than men. They're also less likely to hire women. But in the same study, women are more likely to be judged by men above them for the performance of women they are in charge of, than men they are in charge of.

I think the #MeToo movement has mostly been good, it's  brought to the forefront and into the public issues women have long dealt with. And it has been amazing that men like Terry Crews have stood up and said they have dealt with similar, to help shut down the faux feminists that claim men can't suffer the same.

I have little time for men who are responding to it by going all woe is me, this means I can't so much as look at a woman without being accused of harassment. It's bollocks. No one is saying that outside of a few too vocal idiots.

Granted a small minority are taking it to an extreme, but they always were there. And not just feminists, I know a few evangelical idiots (women should submit to men) who believe oral sex is always rape. Idiots are in every ideological and belief system.

1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted or raped, 1 in 20 men in the UK. I don't know if the #metoo movement will change that, but much like the Scottish "we can stop it" campaign it is quite rightly shifting the conversation from "women this is how you prevent yourself being sexually harassed and raped" to "men, don't sexually harass or rape". At the same time, I think it is important to do the same to women, the idea that men should always been interested and always in the mood I think is quite harmful.

I agree that the #MeToo movement is doing a lot of good for womens' rights. But there has been LOTS of bandwagon-jumping and self-justification too, which is very detrimental to the cause (providing people can see and cut through the bullshit). The hysterical display (yes, it was hysterical) by Serena Williams where she justified her own bad behaviour by screaming from the rooftops that she was being discriminated against as a woman, and using her baby as justification for her 'doing no wrong'. Appalling. And in recent days, Shilpa Shetty saying that Qantas wouldn't let her take her hand luggage on-board because she's brown, whereas infact it was just too bloody big and not complying with airline regs. Women who do that do women no favours at all, and just make it look like #MeMeMe.

The worrying thing is that many women who read and see this crap are supporting those behaviours, which amounts to no less than special treatment because they are women. And that flies in the face of fairness and the legitimate fight for women's equality and being regarded purely on merit.

The Weinstein business I find interesting. The top echelons of Hollywood are/were a 'man's world' and he was an example of possibly the worst excesses...a hateful and nasty man. But did he actually rape anyone? I think he probably strayed into the area of sexual assault, but for the many complainants who are coming out (and good for them in doing so) there will be possibly even more who slept/sucked their way up the slippery pole. Of course it's appalling that many women felt compelled to do that, and that many women probably never had film careers because they refused to do that, but at the same time, some women will have been making it known that they would do anything to get that film part. But thank God that seems to be increasingly a thing of the past.

[JamesKW]

The Weinstein business I find interesting. The top echelons of Hollywood are/were a 'man's world' and he was an example of possibly the worst excesses...a hateful and nasty man. But did he actually rape anyone? I think he probably strayed into the area of sexual assault, but for the many complainants who are coming out (and good for them in doing so) there will be possibly even more who slept/sucked their way up the slippery pole. Of course it's appalling that many women felt compelled to do that, and that many women probably never had film careers because they refused to do that, but at the same time, some women will have been making it known that they would do anything to get that film part. But thank God that seems to be increasingly a thing of the past.

Not sure it will ever be a thing of the past,directors may have to cover themselves more legally with consent forms etc.When you have many more women than jobs available and the return of success are so high, some may have to offer a little extra.