The Post Office "Horizon" computer system

[Blackpool Rock]

I've been aware of this for years as it's been on the news regularly but there is another court ruling due today.

Clearly this system didn't work properly however even well after the Post office knew it was making mistakes they were still prosecuting people for theft and false accounting etc 

People were sent to prison; had marriages break down; communities turn against them and ill heath due to the stress etc also causing premature death

There was an article on the news earlier where they said in 2013 someone in the post office orders for 100's of documents which exposed the truth to be disposed of yet nobody within the organisation has been held to account for anything, fucking disgrace 



External Link/Members Only

[Squire Haggard]

I've been aware of this for years as it's been on the news regularly but there is another court ruling due today.

Clearly this system didn't work properly however even well after the Post office knew it was making mistakes they were still prosecuting people for theft and false accounting etc 

People were sent to prison; had marriages break down; communities turn against them and ill heath due to the stress etc also causing premature death

There was an article on the news earlier where they said in 2013 someone in the post office orders for 100's of documents which exposed the truth to be disposed of yet nobody within the organisation has been held to account for anything, fucking disgrace 



External Link/Members Only

I cant be alone in being pissed off with the Pist Office. They had to get compensation dragged out of them via civil action in the courts. Cunts.

[catweazle]

39/42 convictions quashed, and stated as being "an affront to natural justice", opening the doors wide open for civil actions.

Three convictions did not revolve around Horizon and so were deemed safe.

[Private Parts]

Just desserts.
I fear for the workforce.
Inadequate management is no excuse
 

[mr.bluesky]

Disgraceful how these people have been treated. I hope they sue those responsible for every penny they can get. Peoples lives and livelihoods have been ruined.

[Blackpool Rock]

Disgraceful how these people have been treated. I hope they sue those responsible for every penny they can get. Peoples lives and livelihoods have been ruined.

On the article I linked to there was a figure mentioned for however many people settled in a previous case but when I worked it out the average compensation was only about £20K
I can only assume that those cases were for lesser convictions rather than people who went to prison.

I would hope that some of these people get Mega bucks compo to truly compensate them, imaging you have borrowed money to start the business then up losing your business / job and still have to pay the loans plus missing money.
You are now unemployed and effectively unemployable in any position of trust so can only get menial low paid jobs.
Your family & friends may also doubt you but the local community all have you marked down as a thief so whenever you walk down the road or go shopping or to the pub for a pint you know everyone is thinking "That's the bloke who stole money from the post office he ran", your honour and reputation is zero.
And then there's the ones who actually served prison time.

There needs to be an investigation here to establish who knew what and who ordered documents / files to be disposed of, clearly this was a cover up and those responsible must be guilty of some sort of corruption law for burying the facts, those fuckers need to be held accountable and serve prison time 

[Private Parts]

Outrageous. Conrad Black would have been proud of this unfairness.
I still take the Telegraph though.

[Gordon Bennett]

Has any British institution or company ever managed to instal an efficient, economical and effective computer system? 

[Private Parts]

Has any British institution or company ever managed to instal an efficient, economical and effective computer system?

J Lyons installed the first computer in the U.K.
based at Glacier house, Hammersmith. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Picked up my first company car from there!
WW there’s a tease!
 

Computer was known as LEO.
And it was a vauxhall cavalier. Did me proud that!

[Private Parts]

Has any British institution or company ever managed to instal an efficient, economical and effective computer system?

Check the back of the latest £50 note.
But then what do we know?
 

[winkywanky]

I've been aware of this for years as it's been on the news regularly but there is another court ruling due today.

Clearly this system didn't work properly however even well after the Post office knew it was making mistakes they were still prosecuting people for theft and false accounting etc 

People were sent to prison; had marriages break down; communities turn against them and ill heath due to the stress etc also causing premature death

There was an article on the news earlier where they said in 2013 someone in the post office orders for 100's of documents which exposed the truth to be disposed of yet nobody within the organisation has been held to account for anything, fucking disgrace 



External Link/Members Only

Yes, this is utterly appalling, and the Post Office ought to be ashamed of themselves. The CEO of the time should have been personally prosecuted for this. The PO knew there was a problem with the software, yet they carried on sanctioning Sub-Postmasters on 'evidence' gleaned from it. Disgraceful.

Clearly there is fraud that goes on, but if you have an accounting system with bugs in it then you cannot be sure who is fiddling. To carry on prosecuting people who may be innocent is a national disgrace  .

[winkywanky]

J Lyons installed the first computer in the U.K.
based at Glacier house, Hammersmith. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Picked up my first company car from there!
WW there’s a tease!
 

Computer was known as LEO.
And it was a vauxhall cavalier. Did me proud that!

Were you in charge of the Fondant Fancies? 

[winkywanky]

Has any British institution or company ever managed to instal an efficient, economical and effective computer system?

Seemingly not 

[conrod]

I bet nothing happens to the Post Office Managers who pushed for the prosecutions knowing there were flaws with the Horizon Software.

[winkywanky]

The CEO in question: External Link/Members Only

There ain't nothing like a Dame...you can say that again  .

[winkywanky]

...oh, apparently she's also Lady of the Cloth  .

Se obviously left the Cloth at home while she was screwing all these innocent people  .

[winkywanky]

I bet nothing happens to the Post Office Managers who pushed for the prosecutions knowing there were flaws with the Horizon Software.

It goes all the way to the top. Vennells was aware.

[Private Parts]

WW
I do not think anyone in their right mind would be accepting of this behaviour.
I am dismayed by this behaviour.
Somehow the term ‘Mail’ doesn’t have the same ring without the royal bit.

I am old and I am tired, and I’m sick of flogging dead horses xx
Gentlemen and ladies over to you.....

[Blackpool Rock]

The CEO in question: External Link/Members Only

There ain't nothing like a Dame...you can say that again  .

Yep just been on the news that after she resigned she was given a CBE for services to the Post Office  Sleaze Sleaze Sleaze

In the 2019 New Year Honours, she was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) "for services to the Post Office" and to charity

[winkywanky]

WW
I do not think anyone in their right mind would be accepting of this behaviour.
I am dismayed by this behaviour.
Somehow the term ‘Mail’ doesn’t have the same ring without the royal bit.

I am old and I am tired, and I’m sick of flogging dead horses xx
Gentlemen and ladies over to you.....

It is sad-making. Don't let it get to you PP. Join in with the well deserved flaming! Fucking bitch!

[Private Parts]

Were you in charge of the Fondant Fancies? 

Stop it!
I was first in the queue for my Kunzle cakes!
 

[Blackpool Rock]

...oh, apparently she's also Lady of the Cloth  .

Se obviously left the Cloth at home while she was screwing all these innocent people  .

Mmmm don't want to cross the line into religion but look at all the sex scandals that have been highlighted in recent years from people who should theoretically be there to help others, seems to be they're worse than the public at large

[winkywanky]

Yep just been on the news that after she resigned she was given a CBE for services to the Post Office  Sleaze Sleaze Sleaze

In the 2019 New Year Honours, she was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) "for services to the Post Office" and to charity

But apparently, not services to her Sub-Postmasters, who could simply go and fuck themselves.

I really, really hope that some class action is brought which takes the Post Office to the cleaners.

And I hope that she is ruthlessly exposed to a lot of unwelcome attention, thoroughly deserved. She's blackened the name of Royal Mail, yet she is in receipt of a Royal Honour? Strip her of it.

[Blackpool Rock]

It is sad-making. Don't let it get to you PP. Join in with the well deserved flaming! Fucking bitch!

Shall we nail her to the cross lynch mob style or just stone her to death  Hangings too good for her I say 

[winkywanky]

Mmmm don't want to cross the line into religion but look at all the sex scandals that have been highlighted in recent years from people who should theoretically be there to help others, seems to be they're worse than the public at large

Well I don't think the fact that she was actively involved in Religion is actually anything to do with her misdemeanours to be fair, simply the fact that you can be bad/useless/corrupt and still be high up in the Church, and you can be a 'nothing' and have a heart of gold.

The sex scandals were though, the misuse of Religion was the gateway to the abuse.

[Private Parts]

Were you in charge of the Fondant Fancies? 

Walls have ears, Lyons have stripy bits.

And Mint Choc. Toffeefee, orange maid, Mivvi anyone?
The list goes on

[winkywanky]

Shall we nail her to the cross lynch mob style or just stone her to death  Hangings too good for her I say 

Hung, drawn and quartered. Slow, excrutiatingly painful, utterly undignified.

And then stick her head on a spike outside Mt. Pleasant sorting office...or something like that anyway...

[Private Parts]

Mmmm don't want to cross the line into religion but look at all the sex scandals that have been highlighted in recent years from people who should theoretically be there to help others, seems to be they're worse than the public at large

Never knowingly fucked a postie!
Thanks all the same. They are getting younger though!

[winkywanky]

Never knowingly fucked a postie!
Thanks all the same. They are getting younger though!

Have you noticed how (just like myself), you are older than the Prime Minister too?   

[Blackpool Rock]

Have you noticed how (just like myself), you are older than the Prime Minister too?   

Fucking kids running the country next 

[Private Parts]

And?
External Link/Members Only

[timsussex]

Astonishly the Post Office was allowed to do their own  prosecuting ! 


it should be an easy public inquiry
start at the bottom and ask did you now Horizon was faulty on (date of last prosecution) ?
did you tell your boss ?
then work you way up the chain

Someone should go to prison for this - it wasn't just a mistake they deliberately allowed people to be convicted and imprisoned to cover it up

dont hold your breath though !

[tesla]

J Lyons installed the first computer in the U.K.
based at Glacier house, Hammersmith. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Picked up my first company car from there!
WW there’s a tease!
 

Computer was known as LEO.
And it was a vauxhall cavalier. Did me proud that!

LEO ( Lyon Electronic Office) might have been one of the first commercial computers, but the first computer in the world, Colossus, was installed at Bletchley Park in 1943,
by the end of the war 10 Colossi were installed in blocks F and H. This was kept secret until the 1970's and allowed the Americans to claim the first computer ENIAC in 1946

a working rebuild of Colossus can be seen at the National Museum of Computing , Block H Bletchley Park (Block H was the first purpose built computer building)

also on view is the WITCH or the Harwell Dekatron, the worlds oldest working computer

[Blackpool Rock]

Astonishly the Post Office was allowed to do their own  prosecuting ! 


it should be an easy public inquiry
start at the bottom and ask did you now Horizon was faulty on (date of last prosecution) ?
did you tell your boss ?
then work you way up the chain

Someone should go to prison for this - it wasn't just a mistake they deliberately allowed people to be convicted and imprisoned to cover it up

dont hold your breath though !

Yeah this is exactly the point, I could accept that there were glitches with the system and that people should now be cleared and compensated but it's not acceptable that they continued to prosecute once they knew the system was likely to be wrong then destroyed evidence to cover things up.

I hope they manage to get a few heads to roll at the top along with prison time, i also hope there are a few people currently shitting themselves at the shit storm they expect to wash onto their shore anytime soon 

Have to say whenever something happens and people are baying for blood i'm normally sat thinking just drop it but this has got my goat

[lamboman]

Watching this yesterday made me angry and it's nothing to do with me an absolute disgrace.
Remarkably some haven't even been paid compensation by the P.O because they have criminal convictions  so have to take private cases out.
If the CPS don't do anything(seems unlikely) hopefully a class or individual action will be taken against those responsible,people need to be held to account which doesn't seem to be happening.

[Blackpool Rock]

Watching this yesterday made me angry and it's nothing to do with me an absolute disgrace.
Remarkably some haven't even been paid compensation by the P.O because they have criminal convictions  so have to take private cases out.
If the CPS don't do anything(seems unlikely) hopefully a class or individual action will be taken against those responsible,people need to be held to account which doesn't seem to be happening.

Hopefully this latest judgement will open the way for further action and the sub postmasters do appear to have come together as a group to fight this so there is strength in numbers 

I believe there was one guy who was prosecuted early on who has managed to pull everyone together, the other thing here is that they were all told individually that there was no problem with the system and it was only them who had a problem so it must be down to them not the system otherwise other cases would have happened.
Classic tactic to isolate people and make them even doubt themselves, stops any escalation of someone standing their ground because Joe blogs in Barnsley and Jane Smith in Cheltenham have also had exactly the same problem.

I've seen similar happen somewhere I used to work where our company was hauled over the coals for something that developed a defect in the marketplace, we were told it was only us and none of the other companies supplying the same / similar item had any issues.
Turns out when we investigated that all of the other suppliers had exactly the same problems as the fault lay with the customers core product, even when we pointed out we knew the problem was widespread they point blank denied it but did agree to accept the goods at a large discount.

Cunts trick and that from a company who bragged about all it's ethical accreditations 

[scutty brown]

What this does show is the inherent unfairness of private prosecutions.
The Post Office were the supposed victims, were the investigators, and the prosecution authorities. As a result they were intent on getting guilty verdicts at all costs - they had a vested interest in the reputation of the computer system remaining unchallenged. So they deliberately failed to reveal any evidence that may have  undermined the prosecution case in any of the 700+ trials, despite it being a legal requirement.

[lamboman]

I believe there was one guy who was prosecuted early on who has managed to pull everyone together, the other thing here is that they were all told individually that there was no problem with the system and it was only them who had a problem so it must be down to them not the system otherwise other cases would have happened.


Cunts trick and that from a company who bragged about all it's ethical accreditations 

Yes that trick really is scraping the barrel as clearly they knew the problem was theirs,as you say cunts trick.

[advent2016]

Nobody mentions the brave Fujitsu employees who spoke to the investigative journalist and were sacked for gross misconduct for breaching their NDA, had their Government security clearances revoked and found it hard to gain similarly remunerated employment for a long time. Many of these problems were known about in 2005 and numerous IT staff had reported them to their bosses and were shown the NDA.

[timsussex]

What this does show is the inherent unfairness of private prosecutions.
The Post Office were the supposed victims, were the investigators, and the prosecution authorities. As a result they were intent on getting guilty verdicts at all costs - they had a vested interest in the reputation of the computer system remaining unchallenged. So they deliberately failed to reveal any evidence that may have  undermined the prosecution case in any of the 700+ trials, despite it being a legal requirement.

so what are the chances of an inquiry led by a barrister/judge finding that their colleagues hid the truth ?

[advent2016]

This is similar in some respects to Boeing and their 737-MAX or NHS IT failures that cost huge sums, don't work and contribute to loss of life. I don't know what the answer is except senior people should be accountable and have a real threat of prison rather than some minor scapegoat.

[Gordon Bennett]

This is similar in some respects to Boeing and their 737-MAX or NHS IT failures that cost huge sums, don't work and contribute to loss of life. I don't know what the answer is except senior people should be accountable and have a real threat of prison rather than some minor scapegoat.

Yeah but these "senior people" flit from job to job every few years. They are never in post when the shit hits the fan. Obviously, they are aided and abetted by their friends in the judiciary/government who ensure that any investigation or enquiry or legal action drags on for several years.

[winkywanky]

And let's not forget, even when they fuck up while in post, they somehow manage to get a nice fat payoff too  .

[Squire Haggard]

She should fill her sink full of water, then put her head in it for five minutes, without breathing. 

''Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells has quit boardroom positions at retailers Morrisons and Dunelm as well as her role as a Church of England minister after a major miscarriage of justice.

It comes after 39 sub-postmasters had their wrongful convictions for theft, fraud and false accounting overturned on Friday by the Court of Appeal.''

External Link/Members Only

[Chorley]

I see the heartless  bitch at the head of this as has resigned her position within the COE as the trial is "distracting to her work in the church" How does she even sleep at night? 

[Private Parts]

I see the heartless  bitch at the head of this as has resigned her position within the COE as the trial is "distracting to her work in the church" How does she even sleep at night? 

Divine intervention 

It all went wrong when Beeching was given a hornby set.

IMVHO

[Simmo87]

Astonishly the Post Office was allowed to do their own  prosecuting ! 

I also belive they still have there own police force aswell, we had them in the office were I worked about 15 years ago when some 'borat' was using Franking machine to send out bogus parcels and getting his reletives to claim the compo for lost parcels at £250 at time.

They had warrent cards, with police ranks like Detective Inspector complete with a royal mail logo.

[WARSZAWA16]

Postmasters to get up to £100,000 interim compensation:
External Link/Members Only

[sir wanksalot]

I also belive they still have there own police force aswell, we had them in the office were I worked about 15 years ago when some 'borat' was using Franking machine to send out bogus parcels and getting his reletives to claim the compo for lost parcels at £250 at time.

They had warrent cards, with police ranks like Detective Inspector complete with a royal mail logo.

Stories like this repulse and intrigue me in equal measure. How many scams there must be in this country that we cannot even imagine

[Gordon Bennett]

Gotta love our criminal justice system and trial by jury. Initially these poor postmasters would have been branded as nasty thieving scum because they were found guilty in a court of law. Guilty (or innocent) in a court of law after being judged by one's peers isn't the sacred and immutable verdict its often cracked up to be it seems.