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Author Topic: people trafficking  (Read 1699 times)

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Think twice, try to go independent. Let's get these abusive bastards out of business.

Offline Itsnotshy

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Think twice, try to go independent. Let's get these abusive bastards out of business.
Or use long established parlours, where the police can easily check that the girls are OK.
Avoid pop ups like the plague, probably more likely to get a dose in them too.

Offline scutty brown

You won't recognise most of these girls as Albanian as they mostly travel on forged EU travel documents, usually pretending to be Romanian. But while the gangs are Albanian, the girls could actually be from anywhere

but you have to see this in context with other reports of Albanian criminality in the UK - see
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Offline scutty brown


Or use long established parlours, where the police can easily check that the girls are OK.

Avoid pop ups like the plague, probably more likely to get a dose in them too.

Bollocks.
A lot of parlours, the girls are couriered to/from the place by the boyfriend/pimp and have no choice in the matter. Effectively the girls are rented out to the parlour, with the pimp taking the payment share from the parlour

Offline Steely Dan

Bollocks.
A lot of parlours, the girls are couriered to/from the place by the boyfriend/pimp and have no choice in the matter.
Name the ones you know do this please.

Also, did you visit and saw this happening and choose not to report it?  Or you heard this from your mate down the pub?

Offline scutty brown

Name the ones you know do this please.

Also, did you visit and saw this happening and choose not to report it?  Or you heard this from your mate down the pub?

That's not a discussion to be had here. Suffice it to say, they exist

Offline Itsnotshy

Name the ones you know do this please.

Also, did you visit and saw this happening and choose not to report it?  Or you heard this from your mate down the pub?
+1

Offline Itsnotshy

That's not a discussion to be had here. Suffice it to say, they exist
Cop out comment.

Offline last_days_of_logan

You have to wonder about the culture in Albania

"She told Sky News how it brought shame on her family and described how she was beaten by her own mother and brother.

"They punched me in the womb so I would lose the baby... it was really bad because I could lose the baby at any moment," she said."

sad if true that this is the support you get for being abused.

Offline Concrete Hands

Interesting subject.I watched that BBC2 fact/drama show a few weeks back 'Doing Money'.It was dark brutal viewing.Adultwork seems to be getting overrun by potentially trafficked girls just now.It's like that Liam Neeson film 'Taken'  has come to our doors.

Offline Itsnotshy

Sweet Jesus, all these trafficking threads are getting to be a pain in the arse.
So much virtue signalling.
If so many of the girls are being coerced, trafficked, pimped, kidnapped, mind controlled why the fuck are any of us still punting.
If I see a girl and she is happy to see me, shows no sign of being coerced, says nothing to me about being controlled why the fuck should I think she is anything other than what she appears to be :dash:
The WOMEN are fucking ADULTS as are we, if they are being coerced let them ask for help.
Or if you cannot trust that ANY of the girls are telling the truth and having sex willingly then get the fuck out of this game.
I think I might just go on a break, save some bloody money.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 05:14:48 pm by Itsnotshy »

Offline king tarzan

Interesting subject.I watched that BBC2 fact/drama show a few weeks back 'Doing Money'.It was dark brutal viewing.Adultwork seems to be getting overrun by potentially trafficked girls just now.It's like that Liam Neeson film 'Taken'  has come to our doors.

The revenge was exactly what these low life motherfucking cunts deserved!
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Baxter63

Even the ones, who run the agencies that you use, KT?
Banned reason: Anti UKP wanker Kelvin on another forum
Banned by: 90125

Offline badsin

External Link/Members Only

Think twice, try to go independent. Let's get these abusive bastards out of business.

I've been to Albania, it's a shit hole, made worse by its indigenous population. They have blood fueds between villages and families going back centuries. They are involved in every type of criminality imaginable.
They also like to expand their criminal enterprises by moving to different countries and setting up their crime families.
I have read that they are the go to guys for Sicilian and Russian Mafia.... they get the job done.

Online s0whatsnew?

Sweet Jesus, all these trafficking threads are getting to be a pain in the arse.
So much virtue signalling.
If so many of the girls are being coerced, trafficked, pimped, kidnapped, mind controlled why the fuck are any of us still punting.
If I see a girl and she is happy to see me, shows no sign of being coerced, says nothing to me about being controlled why the fuck should I think she is anything other than what she appears to be :dash:
The WOMEN are fucking ADULTS as are we, if they are being coerced let them ask for help.
Or if you cannot trust that ANY of the girls are telling the truth and having sex willingly then get the fuck out of this game.
I think I might just go on a break, save some bloody money.

I thought its been  well established for quite a few years now how SOME girls are coerced and trafficked; from Fujian in SW China the local crim network intermediaries ('snakeheads') offer jobs to local girls like waitressing in Europe and finance the  'resettlement' by way of a loan to the girl's parents.  The parents thus become responsible for  repayment of the loan and expect to do that by the remittances sent back by the girl.  In practice,  the gangmasters take the role of banker to the situation and do the bookeeping themselves.   However, a penalty/punishment for non-repayment can be applied to both the girl and her guarantor parents with no way for either side to ever prove the truth.

The result is a form of open-ended bonded labour no different to slavery.   The coercion and leverage over the girl consists of her fear and concern for the well-being of her  parents and family, as well as her own physical safety.

To emphasize again: this applies to SOME of the Chinese girls.  Others of them are perfectly free to come and go on student visas or whatever.

Something similar applied in the past to Rom girls in a less extreme form. 

 From W. Africa, girls are first subjected to a voudou ceremony lasting up to two weeks which binds them into the ownership of their Madam and her network underlings.  The power and force of this process cannot be appreciated by us used to life in the west.   The middlemen (in Italy, at least) reckon that it takes around six months for a newly-trafficked African girl to find her way around european society and bureaucracy.   At the first signs of independence and confidence, the girl is at risk of being  forcibly disappeared and forgotten.

Sorry to seem so bleak and downbeat but thats how it is.   To repeat:  SOME girls; more than a few but less than a majority.  Maybe.  Hopefully.


Offline last_days_of_logan


 From W. Africa, girls are first subjected to a voudou ceremony lasting up to two weeks which binds them into the ownership of their Madam and her network underlings.  The power and force of this process cannot be appreciated by us used to life in the west.   The middlemen (in Italy, at least) reckon that it takes around six months for a newly-trafficked African girl to find her way around european society and bureaucracy.   At the first signs of independence and confidence, the girl is at risk of being  forcibly disappeared and forgotten.



this is very true i am sad to say

Offline jeanphillipe

Even the ones, who run the agencies that you use, KT?

Have you seen the agecies King T visits, man is a  baller, no forced girls charges 250 an hour.

That tends to be the old 40/60/100 priced side if the market.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 08:09:54 am by jeanphillipe »

Offline king tarzan

Even the ones, who run the agencies that you use, KT?

Bit odd that the hotties I have seen via the agencies are smiling, brilliant attitudes, Gucci bags, Louis Vuitton trainers, Chanel perfumes. I have seen..
Very odd forceful trafficking then isn't it?
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline puntingpumping1920

This is newsworthy for people outside of punting.

If you're punter you will quickly realise that EE prostitutes are generally controlled under the instruction or direction of a Pimp.

The word 'control' includes, but is not limited to, ‘compulsion’, ‘coercion’ and ‘force’.

Plus it’s rare to find an EE prostitute that isn't trafficked

If a Pimp arranged or facilitated the travel of a prostitute for the purposes of prostitution.

That means she was trafficked......Regardless if the arrangement was voluntary or coerced
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 09:19:21 am by puntingpumping1920 »
Banned reason: Mr £500k go and buy some fucking manners
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline Itsnotshy

I thought its been  well established for quite a few years now how SOME girls are coerced and trafficked; from Fujian in SW China the local crim network intermediaries ('snakeheads') offer jobs to local girls like waitressing in Europe and finance the  'resettlement' by way of a loan to the girl's parents.  The parents thus become responsible for  repayment of the loan and expect to do that by the remittances sent back by the girl.  In practice,  the gangmasters take the role of banker to the situation and do the bookeeping themselves.   However, a penalty/punishment for non-repayment can be applied to both the girl and her guarantor parents with no way for either side to ever prove the truth.

The result is a form of open-ended bonded labour no different to slavery.   The coercion and leverage over the girl consists of her fear and concern for the well-being of her  parents and family, as well as her own physical safety.

To emphasize again: this applies to SOME of the Chinese girls.  Others of them are perfectly free to come and go on student visas or whatever.

Something similar applied in the past to Rom girls in a less extreme form. 

 From W. Africa, girls are first subjected to a voudou ceremony lasting up to two weeks which binds them into the ownership of their Madam and her network underlings.  The power and force of this process cannot be appreciated by us used to life in the west.   The middlemen (in Italy, at least) reckon that it takes around six months for a newly-trafficked African girl to find her way around european society and bureaucracy.   At the first signs of independence and confidence, the girl is at risk of being  forcibly disappeared and forgotten.

Sorry to seem so bleak and downbeat but thats how it is.   To repeat:  SOME girls; more than a few but less than a majority.  Maybe.  Hopefully.
Reinforcing my original comment about long established parlours that generally do not have non UK nationals working in them. In my experience anyway, bound to be exceptions but if in doubt give them a miss and stick to the English girls.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 11:39:45 am by Itsnotshy »

Offline Steely Dan

This is newsworthy for people outside of punting.

If you're punter you will quickly realise that EE prostitutes are generally controlled under the instruction or direction of a Pimp.

The word 'control' includes, but is not limited to, ‘compulsion’, ‘coercion’ and ‘force’.

Plus it’s rare to find an EE prostitute that isn't trafficked
I think the opposite.  Those outside punting believe that every single escort in the whole UK is a miserable heroin addicted trafficked street walker.  Those inside punting know this is not the truth - many of all nationalities do it for fun and money.

If you know some that are forcibly trafficked, call crime stoppers, don't tell me about the escorts I visit. You see it, you report it.

Quote
If a Pimp arranged or facilitated the travel of a prostitute for the purposes of prostitution.

That means she was trafficked......Regardless if the arrangement was voluntary or coerced.

And don't tell me about the dictionary definition.  Confusing issues.  I confess I don't know about this legal detail.  Perhaps true I don't care.  I care about force and any girl that is forced.  Not seen it myself.  (OK read back to a review about a year ago, there was one girl i was not happy about so I made a call to crime stoppers.  But that is one out of 91.  Not 'generally' IMHO)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 08:27:59 pm by Steely Dan »

Offline Itsnotshy

I think the opposite.  Those outside punting believe that every single escort in the whole UK is a miserable heroin addicted trafficked street walker.  Those inside punting know this is not the truth - many of all nationalities do it for fun and money.

If you know some that are forcibly trafficked, call crime stoppers, don't tell me about the escorts I visit. You see it, you report it.
Well said.

Offline puntingpumping1920

And don't tell me about the dictionary definition.  Confusing issues.  I confess I don't know about this legal detail.  Perhaps true I don't care.  I care about force and any girl that is forced.  Not seen it myself.  (OK read back to a review about a year ago, there was one girl i was not happy about so I made a call to crime stoppers.  But that is one out of 91.  Not 'generally' IMHO)

If you say, "I will only report prostitutes that are only forced"....The line between coercion/ voluntary can be easily obscure, in terms of Pimp/ prostitute relationship (That is why the relationship is an criminal offence)

The only way punters can combat these issues is to visit "fully independent prostitutes". The only drawback is, how do you know who is independent and who is not?   

Some pimps involvement are hidden to punters, such as working conditions/ location, control of finances, choice of clients, etc

The laws regarding prostitution in the UK need to be reformed. That unregulated industry that exists today makes prostitutes vulnerable and those who are already in a vulnerable position, even more so

Every London escort agency is breaking the law

If a Pimp aids a prostitute in travelling for the purposes of prostitution (Even if she voluntary travelled)......that is a crime (Trafficking for Sexual Exploitation: Section 2 Modern Slavery Act 2015)

If she works with a pimp and she isn't forced.......that is a crime

If the laws are not reformed, the Government will bring the sex industry to a virtual end. Something needs to happen to address human trafficking issues we are facing.
Banned reason: Mr £500k go and buy some fucking manners
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline last_days_of_logan

If you say, "I will only report prostitutes that are only forced"....The line between coercion/ voluntary can be easily obscure, in terms of Pimp/ prostitute relationship (That is why the relationship is an criminal offence)

The only way punters can combat these issues is to visit "fully independent prostitutes". The only drawback is, how do you know who is independent and who is not?   

Some pimps involvement are hidden to punters, such as working conditions/ location, control of finances, choice of clients, etc

The laws regarding prostitution in the UK need to be reformed. That unregulated industry that exists today makes prostitutes vulnerable and those who are already in a vulnerable position, even more so

Every London escort agency is breaking the law

If a Pimp aids a prostitute in travelling for the purposes of prostitution (Even if she voluntary travelled)......that is a crime (Trafficking for Sexual Exploitation: Section 2 Modern Slavery Act 2015)

If she works with a pimp and she isn't forced.......that is a crime

If the laws are not reformed, the Government will bring the sex industry to a virtual end. Something needs to happen to address human trafficking issues we are facing.

maybe the key issue now is to define what a pimp is

Offline Ilikemuff

Sweet Jesus, all these trafficking threads are getting to be a pain in the arse.
So much virtue signalling.
If so many of the girls are being coerced, trafficked, pimped, kidnapped, mind controlled why the fuck are any of us still punting.
If I see a girl and she is happy to see me, shows no sign of being coerced, says nothing to me about being controlled why the fuck should I think she is anything other than what she appears to be :dash:
The WOMEN are fucking ADULTS as are we, if they are being coerced let them ask for help.
Or if you cannot trust that ANY of the girls are telling the truth and having sex willingly then get the fuck out of this game.
I think I might just go on a break, save some bloody money.

You should care, because a conviction for rape might impact your job, family and future.
If she is coerced then she can't consent so it is rape.

Offline puntingpumping1920

maybe the key issue now is to define what a pimp is

A pimp is someone that causes or incites prostitution for gain (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that controls prostitution for gain (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that trafficked a prostitute into the UK (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that trafficked a prostitute outside the UK (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that keeps, manages, acts or assists in the running of a brothel.

Pimping is not advertising adult services and content online
Banned reason: Mr £500k go and buy some fucking manners
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline last_days_of_logan

A pimp is someone that causes or incites prostitution for gain (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that controls prostitution for gain (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that trafficked a prostitute into the UK (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that trafficked a prostitute outside the UK (voluntary or forced)

A pimp is someone that keeps, manages, acts or assists in the running of a brothel.

Pimping is not advertising adult services and content online

the issue with the definition you have there is pimps are being described with a pre notion that they trafficked and the woman is a prostitute

in a scenario where you have 5 friends and 1 of them pays admin costs and books rooms / houses and takes booking for punters etc etc, the others just do the deed......is that admin person a pimp? especially considering the house they operate in is now a brothel

Offline puntingpumping1920

in a scenario where you have 5 friends and 1 of them pays admin costs and books rooms / houses and takes booking for punters etc etc, the others just do the deed......is that admin person a pimp? especially considering the house they operate in is now a brothel

That administrator is a pimp.

That criminal offences that administrator/ pimp made is:

* Causing or inciting prostitution for gain, Sexual Offences Act 2003, section 52
* Controlling prostitution for gain, Sexual Offences Act 2003, section 53
* Keeping a brothel used for prostitution, Sexual Offences Act 1956, section 33A

Maximum sentence is 14 years

They are mitigating factors that may reduce the sentence such as: If the pimp had no previous convictions; if the pimp showed remorse; if the pimp has a learning disability/ mental disorder and if the prostitute(s) working in the brothel engaged in prostitution without being forced or corrupted by the pimp......plus other factors
Banned reason: Mr £500k go and buy some fucking manners
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline last_days_of_logan

That administrator is a pimp.

That criminal offences that administrator/ pimp made is:

* Causing or inciting prostitution for gain, Sexual Offences Act 2003, section 52
* Controlling prostitution for gain, Sexual Offences Act 2003, section 53
* Keeping a brothel used for prostitution, Sexual Offences Act 1956, section 33A

Maximum sentence is 14 years

They are mitigating factors that may reduce the sentence such as: If the pimp had no previous convictions; if the pimp showed remorse; if the pimp has a learning disability/ mental disorder and if the prostitute(s) working in the brothel engaged in prostitution without being forced or corrupted by the pimp......plus other factors

very interesting...so if you and i went into business and you ho'ed yourself out to the masses and i just did the account then i am your pimp

good to know

so a receptionist that takes bookings and rents out rooms is a pimp as well then

Offline Itsnotshy

You should care, because a conviction for rape might impact your job, family and future.
If she is coerced then she can't consent so it is rape.
Didn't say I didn't care, and I am fully aware of the law. Was just saying what the fuck can we do if we are being lied to and the woman appears to not be coerced. We are not mind readers.
Maybe the only totally safe option to avoid coerced women, who just will not help themselves or ask for help from others, is to not punt at all. Which is what the anti prostitution lobby want.
As that is not an option for most of us I stick to parlours that have been around for yonks and would never frequent a pop up.
Nobody ultimately has an answer to this problem, It's been around since the beginning of human history and will continue until the end of time. Part of the human condition. Just be kind, vigilant, and if anyone asks for help give it. Or become celibate.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 09:28:31 pm by Itsnotshy »

Offline Steely Dan

You should care, because a conviction for rape might impact your job, family and future.
If she is coerced then she can't consent so it is rape.
You confuse the law with ethics.  Of course we don't want to be done for a rape on a technicality.  But this has not happened yet.  Really stop all the 'oh shit this might happen' stuff.  Yes there are risks with punting.  We accept them, move on.

But I have no time for exploitation.  If I suspect it, I report it.  Please do the same. 

But no more preaching about the law, unless you have facts about what has really happened to blokes. 

(If you are in jail for rape because you had sex with a smiling escort who turned out to be unable to consent, then I stand corrected.  I am sure your case will be in court records soon. Didn't know you could access UKP from prison)

Offline scutty brown

A large part of the answer is to report it when you see it, or even slightly suspect it.
We punters see the girls, and we're the only people who can identify and report the victims.
If there is the slightest hint of exploitation, tell the police

Offline YouOnlyLiveOnce

The government did indeed use a definition of "human trafficking" that ignored consent (and borders, so a taxi driver taking a consenting British escort from Leeds to Manchester was a trafficker).  Not sure if that is still the case, as I'm struggling to find it now, and searching government websites throws up many pages where it's specifically used to describe victims of forced prostitution (and other forms of exploitation).  I was one of those who made a submission to the Home Office Select Committe about this awhile back (the one Keith Vaz was chairing at the time), and I argued then that the term "forced prostitution" should be used instead.

A few years ago there were two major police investigations into "human trafficking", resulting in hundreds of arrests, but no cases of forced prostitution were unearthed by it:

Quote
The UK's biggest ever investigation of sex trafficking failed to find a single person who had forced anybody into prostitution in spite of hundreds of raids on sex workers in a six-month campaign by government departments, specialist agencies and every police force in the country.

The failure has been disclosed by a Guardian investigation which also suggests that the scale of and nature of sex trafficking into the UK has been exaggerated by politicians and media.
(source External Link/Members Only)

After that fiasco, a survey by London Metropolitan University reached the following conclusion:

Quote
Interviews with 100 migrant women, men and transgender people working in all of the main jobs available within the sex industry and from the most relevant areas of origin (South America, Eastern Europe, EU and South East Asia) indicate that approximately 13 per cent of female interviewees felt that they had been subject to different perceptions and experiences of exploitation, ranging from extreme cases of trafficking to relatively more consensual arrangements. Only a minority, amounting approximately to 6 per cent of female interviewees, felt that they had been deceived and forced into selling sex in circumstances within which they had no share of control or consent.
(source External Link/Members Only)

So it's real, but rare.

Offline scutty brown

The government did indeed use a definition of "human trafficking" that ignored consent (and borders, so a taxi driver taking a consenting British escort from Leeds to Manchester was a trafficker).  Not sure if that is still the case, as I'm struggling to find it now, and searching government websites throws up many pages where it's specifically used to describe victims of forced prostitution (and other forms of exploitation).  I was one of those who made a submission to the Home Office Select Committe about this awhile back (the one Keith Vaz was chairing at the time), and I argued then that the term "forced prostitution" should be used instead.

A few years ago there were two major police investigations into "human trafficking", resulting in hundreds of arrests, but no cases of forced prostitution were unearthed by it:
(source External Link/Members Only)

After that fiasco, a survey by London Metropolitan University reached the following conclusion:
(source External Link/Members Only)

So it's real, but rare.

There are inherent problems in any survey like that
First getting access to the affected girls; the pimps will never let you near them. In places like Liverpool even the outreach workers get warned off with threats of violence.
The girls are often so intimidated that there's no way they are going to state the truth: they are simply too scared. On top of that, you often see a degree of brainwashing, where the girls become convinced that slavery is a normal way of life .
That's why the police in the last couple of years have begun prosecuting so-called "victimless" crimes, without testimony from the girls involved.
As to it being rare, if the number of cases in Lancashire are representative of the whole country then its common: its just that some police forces give it a higher priority than others

Offline Steely Dan

There are inherent problems in any survey like that
First getting access to the affected girls; the pimps will never let you near them. In places like Liverpool even the outreach workers get warned off with threats of violence.
The girls are often so intimidated that there's no way they are going to state the truth: they are simply too scared. On top of that, you often see a degree of brainwashing, where the girls become convinced that slavery is a normal way of life .
That's why the police in the last couple of years have begun prosecuting so-called "victimless" crimes, without testimony from the girls involved.
As to it being rare, if the number of cases in Lancashire are representative of the whole country then its common: its just that some police forces give it a higher priority than others

Your words sound possible.  But are they based on personal observation or something you read on the internet?  Sorry for my deep skepticism, but as you can understand so many facts are made up, then somebody else reports them, then parliament records them.  But they are still made up facts. 

I believe that cunts in Rochdale abused girls.  They are in jail for it.  So I am not saying shit does not go one.  But that was not punting. I remain skeptical that it has anything to do with the punts that most UKP guys have, whether in brothel or from AW.  I fear that we risk reporting made up stuff.  Future Daily Mail Headling: 'UKP punters report that 6% of the girls they fuck are trafficked and they won't report it.  MPs decide to act'

Offline scutty brown

Your words sound possible.  But are they based on personal observation or something you read on the internet?  Sorry for my deep skepticism, but as you can understand so many facts are made up, then somebody else reports them, then parliament records them.  But they are still made up facts....................

a mixture of personal observation, and direct discussion with support workers involved.
Nothing made up, nothing read on the internet. Real hard facts.

Offline Steely Dan

a mixture of personal observation, and direct discussion with support workers involved.
Nothing made up, nothing read on the internet. Real hard facts.
So which part was personal observation, and which part is hearsay from unreliable witnesses with a clear agenda?  I take no notice of hearsay, let alone second hand hearsay.

But anyway we may agree, not sure.  I think most escorts that I will come across are in it for money and some like the sex. Good fun girls. All good. And if any MP uses any of these so called facts on trafficking to make what I do a crime, they will not help the cockle pickers and labourers that are actually trafficked. They will make my life worse and not save anyone.


Online s0whatsnew?

So which part was personal observation, and which part is hearsay from unreliable witnesses with a clear agenda?  I take no notice of hearsay, let alone second hand hearsay.

A couple of my own real-life experiences to chew on.   

1)  20 years ago I stayed for a week in a cheap flop-house in Accra, Ghana.  Also staying there was a group of 6-7 African girls. Early-mid twenties, but perfectly mature.   Each day one of them would approach me offering to do my laundry for a good price.  I politely rejected all these suggestions.   At the time I was happily partnered-up with a very innocent lifestyle and so didn't question anything beneath the surface.   Towards the end of the week one of the western women ( a Chilean social worker on a round-the-world-trip) also staying there mentioned to me that the group were prostitutes awaiting final arrangements for travel to europe.  The interesting thing here was that the girls all came from the Cote D'Ivoire,  a francophone country bordering anglophone Ghana.   The girls themselves spoke no english.

2)  My introduction to paid-for sex came at a TCM parlour (now closed down for nearly two years already) also used by royal london, a polish massage crew.   I clicked with the polish girl and took her out for a coffee at the end of her day.  She told me that one of the chinese girls working there was held as a sex-slave prisoner, unpaid and in continuous fear.

So:    from my point of view the information in both situations was hearsay.  In both situations, tho,  I absolutely and without hesitation believe the information offered to me.   Why?   Firstly a (relatively low-level) relationship of trust and respect  between myself and the informant.  Next, my observations of the situation and context indicate its possibility.  Thirdly, I can infer from those two factors that the logical outcome of the situation - if true - would be very profitable for someone, as yet unknown to any of us.  That alone makes it likely to be true.

I'm trying here to think thru my own judgement-making process.  Its that mixture of  information which may or may not be true  combined with observation of context leading to an interpretation based on knowledge of how the world works.  That doesn't mean that I/we can just charge off assuming that its all true without continuous testing of a theory.   But it does mean that because the profit motive is such a powerful driver, that following the money is generally an accurate method of analysis.

Isn't this how we all operate in life in general?  Most of the time its an invisible process until we're really pushed to examine it. 

Offline houseboot

Good post s0whatsnew?

Unfortunate that you posted within the quote, rather than outside it, as it would otherwise be easier to read.

Online s0whatsnew?

Good post s0whatsnew?

Unfortunate that you posted within the quote, rather than outside it, as it would otherwise be easier to read.

yes......I wanted to highlight just part of Steely's last post, thought that i had done that ok so hit 'quote'.   Oh well...

Offline BarryProudfoot

If you say, "I will only report prostitutes that are only forced"....The line between coercion/ voluntary can be easily obscure, in terms of Pimp/ prostitute relationship (That is why the relationship is an criminal offence)

The only way punters can combat these issues is to visit "fully independent prostitutes". The only drawback is, how do you know who is independent and who is not?   

Some pimps involvement are hidden to punters, such as working conditions/ location, control of finances, choice of clients, etc

The laws regarding prostitution in the UK need to be reformed. That unregulated industry that exists today makes prostitutes vulnerable and those who are already in a vulnerable position, even more so

Quote
Every London escort agency is breaking the law

If a Pimp aids a prostitute in travelling for the purposes of prostitution (Even if she voluntary travelled)......that is a crime (Trafficking for Sexual Exploitation: Section 2 Modern Slavery Act 2015)

If she works with a pimp and she isn't forced.......that is a crime

If the laws are not reformed, the Government will bring the sex industry to a virtual end. Something needs to happen to address human trafficking issues we are facing.

How are they able to openly break the law and not become of interest to an aggressive HMRC investigation? :timeout:
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 02:38:54 pm by BarryProudfoot »