"Woke" saviour complex

[MerlinGray]

Have a look at *hris He*mings @hemmch on Twitter, a fella who's been called out for essentially trying to get a shag on the basis of his pro-feminist stance.

Any of you ever come over a bit feminist with a WG? Guilty of it a few times as in "well, I'm respectful" - but how true is it really, not an awful lot. I wonder how prevalent being "woke" is, reminds me of Coogan doing Paul Calf years ago... "I'm a radical feminist, you have to be these days to get a shag"

Serious point behind this however is if any of us have a moral justification that you've let slip while in the room..

PS I reckon He*mings WAS writing to get a shag and got caught out.

[scutty brown]

I dunno WTF you're talking about.
Sounds like political shit, if so, not interested

[LLPunting]

On reflection OP do you lie more to men or women to get along?

[Stevelondon]

I use resources on the interweb 

But the whole social media platform type of places are a "NO" for me. So I have no social awareness.

[stevedave]

And this is why we shouldn't post on here after a skin full 

[teddyking]

I dunno WTF you're talking about.
Sounds like political shit, if so, not interested

Then why would you make a comment then? No need for pointless negativity pal

[catweazle]

Then why would you make a comment then? No need for pointless negativity pal

I think the only pointless part of this is the original post.

[lewisjones23]

why on earth would anyone need to come across as a feminist when seeing a WG? 

You are paying them to provide a service, not like you, not be your friend and not agree with any political or mentality positions you have.

The exchange of bank notes is the leveller

[Fuggedaboutit]

A basic rule of punting, surely, pretty much as in life, is "don't be a twat"...

I'm pretty sure SPs don't care if you're a woke millennial that thought Corbyn was the 2nd coming, or if you're a foaming mouthed, spittle flecked baby boomer who thinks Farage is god almighty - just so long as you're polite, clean, have the correct money and turn up on time.

[stevedave]

A basic rule of punting, surely, pretty much as in life, is "don't be a twat"...

just so long as you're polite, clean, have the correct money and turn up on time.

Amen to all of that 

[sparkus]

From the headline I assumed this was referring to idiots who think they can 'save' fallen women from us 'predatory' punters.

[scutty brown]

 

Then why would you make a comment then? No need for pointless negativity pal

Every need when the OP is spouting shite

[Jayne_cobb]

I stupidly found the guy on Twitter that op referenced. Read a bit. Got bored. Still have no idea what op was on about or what point he was trying to make. Or how it relates to punting. Confused.com

[bops909]

A basic rule of punting, surely, pretty much as in life, is "don't be a twat"...

I'm pretty sure SPs don't care if you're a woke millennial that thought Corbyn was the 2nd coming, or if you're a foaming mouthed, spittle flecked baby boomer who thinks Farage is god almighty - just so long as you're polite, clean, have the correct money and turn up on time.

Amen to all of that 

Amen to that 

[winkywanky]

why on earth would anyone need to come across as a feminist

I'd love to come across a feminist, it's on my bucketlist.

[LLPunting]

I'd love to come across a feminist, it's on my bucketlist.

I pretty much don't care about their personal politics as long as they put in a good performance for the money they're paid.  I don't give a toss about "Who's your daddy?" powerplays I just want a healthy serving of passionate adult carnality.

[sparkus]

I have wondered if any wokelord/SJW/incels in denial out there have thought about 'saving' WGs by militant actions against punters.

[stevedave]

I'd love to come across a feminist, it's on my bucketlist.

I have, she fucking loved me jizzing all over her face. Got her right in the eye once  civvy, not a WG before anyone asks for a review 

[winkywanky]

I have, she fucking loved me jizzing all over her face. Got her right in the eye once  civvy, not a WG before anyone asks for a review 

Feminism needn't come into sex, so long as both parties get what they want it's all good.

Hell, some top male Execs are bastards in their work lives, and then at the weekend they want a Dom to shit all over them (perhaps, literally).

[GorillaWarfare]

Any of you ever come over a bit feminist with a WG? Guilty of it a few times as in "well, I'm respectful" - but how true is it really, not an awful lot. I wonder how prevalent being "woke" is, reminds me of Coogan doing Paul Calf years ago... "I'm a radical feminist, you have to be these days to get a shag"

Serious point behind this however is if any of us have a moral justification that you've let slip while in the room..

It's a bit of a strange question but I'll bite. It depends what you mean by "feminist", really. If your meaning of feminism is "not treating a WG like the scum of the earth" then I've acted a bit feminist during meets but I don't think that's enough to be classes as "being a bit feminist".

But I've never talked about feminist issues (or anything political, really) with WG. Nothing kills the mood quicker than a political argument wherever you lie on the political spectrum.

[Jayne_cobb]

The femi-nazis believe that escorts are the peak of male oppression/abuse of women, whereas some escorts see the ability to get paid for sex as peak feminism.
The truth is probably both ends of the scale depending on how willing a participant the wg in question is.

[Fuggedaboutit]

I've always found it curious that some women will defend other women's right to do with their body as they please in some circumstances, such as abortion; but not in others, i.e. prostitution.

Yes, there are definitely likely to be unsavoury avenues into becoming a WG (addiction, trafficking, economic necessity), and we all do our best to cut off those avenues by being alert to whether a WG is there unwillingly, because we're pretty much all decent human beings.

Equally, there are those WGs who have made the conscious decision to enter that lifestyle because it suits them. Why their entry into "the oldest profession" is of such concern to other women, god knows.

[sparkus]

The femi-nazis believe that escorts are the peak of male oppression/abuse of women, whereas some escorts see the ability to get paid for sex as peak feminism.
The truth is probably both ends of the scale depending on how willing a participant the wg in question is.

If you want to get sucked into a rabbit hole of absurdness google 'SWERF'.

[Gordon Bennett]

If you're only in someone's company for 30/60 mins I think it's normal, even good manners, to display an agreeable and polite personality. I'll say I like cats or watching Friends if it appears that's her preference.

I like this Henry Rollins song, Liar. It's about telling fibs to get off with people. Maybe they should play it to young ladies in school.

External Link/Members Only

[Ali Katt]

And this is why we shouldn't post on here after a skin full 

This. Who discusses politics on a punt anyway sounds like a passion killer.

[sparkus]

If you're only in someone's company for 30/60 mins I think it's normal, even good manners, to display an agreeable and polite personality. I'll say I like cats or watching Friends if it appears that's her preference.

I like this Henry Rollins song, Liar. It's about telling fibs to get off with people. Maybe they should play it to young ladies in school.

External Link/Members Only

I prefer this version: External Link/Members Only

[Jayne_cobb]

If you want to get sucked into a rabbit hole of absurdness google 'SWERF'.

Oh my 

Many SWERFs believe that all sex work must be violent and exploitative and that consensual sex workers participate in perpetuating an immoral and abusive industry. In fact, some even say that consensual sex work is a paradox, suggesting that there is no difference between those who engage in it voluntarily—claiming it is impossible to be a voluntary participant—and women who are coerced into sex work through sex trafficking. Others argue that consensual sex work is possible, but that its participants, as well as the feminists who support and seek to protect them, are perpetuating an exploitative environment.

So SWERF’s are unhinged nutters 

[Titi]

A basic rule of punting, surely, pretty much as in life, is "don't be a twat"...

I'm pretty sure SPs don't care if you're a woke millennial that thought Corbyn was the 2nd coming, or if you're a foaming mouthed, spittle flecked baby boomer who thinks Farage is god almighty - just so long as you're polite, clean, have the correct money and turn up on time.

 

[Ali Katt]

I prefer this version: External Link/Members Only

Oh yeah. MTV banned the word fire after a supposed arsonist was inspired by Beavis. So Beavis shouts liar instead in the same manic way.

[Ali Katt]

To bring it back to topic. I could be wrong as it is mass speculation on my part, but militant Feminists don't go for male feminists. I think in attraction as in relationships you need ab element of tension, if you agree on everything it gets boring fast. I've met people I disagree, but respect their opinion and their right to say it. I think people respect somebody more if they are mot a yes man / woman.

[scutty brown]

To bring it back to topic. I could be wrong as it is mass speculation on my part, but militant Feminists don't go for male feminists. I think in attraction as in relationships you need ab element of tension, if you agree on everything it gets boring fast. I've met people I disagree, but respect their opinion and their right to say it. I think people respect somebody more if they are mot a yes man / woman.

None of the feminists I've come across were agreeable.

[sparkus]

To bring it back to topic. I could be wrong as it is mass speculation on my part, but militant Feminists don't go for male feminists. I think in attraction as in relationships you need ab element of tension, if you agree on everything it gets boring fast. I've met people I disagree, but respect their opinion and their right to say it. I think people respect somebody more if they are mot a yes man / woman.

I think the most common situation is a male and female hipster type couple both wearing 'This is what a feminist looks like' t-shirts and both doing precisely zero other than that to effect any kind of change in society (which is perfectly fine, just don't lecture others what to think).

[G.Raff]

I've always found it curious that some women will defend other women's right to do with their body as they please in some circumstances, such as abortion; but not in others, i.e. prostitution.

Yes, there are definitely likely to be unsavoury avenues into becoming a WG (addiction, trafficking, economic necessity), and we all do our best to cut off those avenues by being alert to whether a WG is there unwillingly, because we're pretty much all decent human beings.

Equally, there are those WGs who have made the conscious decision to enter that lifestyle because it suits them. Why their entry into "the oldest profession" is of such concern to other women, god knows.

  100%

In answer to your last question, feminists hate WGs because, in their eyes, it devalues what women use to gain power over men - i.e. access to sex

[Ali Katt]

100%

In answer to your last question, feminists hate WGs because, in their eyes, it devalues what women use to gain power over men - i.e. access to sex

I'm not a woman so I don't know how much credibility what I'm about to type has, but from my experiences most female envy I've seen is towards other women and not the patriarchy.

[cotton]

Yes, there are definitely likely to be unsavoury avenues into becoming a WG (addiction, trafficking, economic necessity), and we all do our best to cut off those avenues by being alert to whether a WG is there unwillingly, because we're pretty much all decent human beings.

Is it wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from economic necessity  ?
Whats the theory behind it being ok for everyone else to work from economic necessity but it isnt ok for hookers to work from economic necessity ?
Just genuinely curious 

[LLPunting]

I'm not a woman so I don't know how much credibility what I'm about to type has, but from my experiences most female envy I've seen is towards other women and not the patriarchy.

Look at how every new generation of budding women is dominated by a need to appear sexy, it starts at a younger and younger age, so the indoctrination by male and female controlled media affects women's values way before they get into self-actualisation.  Modern women may think they escape this dogma by getting their degrees and becoming financially independent but along comes relationships. marriage and child-rearing (not necessarily in that order)...
So then you have the haves, who can rely on a partner's "loving support" so they needn't work (so hard) or even raise the kids and you have the have-nots who are single/divorced parents who can't stop for wanting to.
Most men compete to shag pretty, young things, most women still compete for a lifetime of support for them and the kids they raise.

[JontyR]

Is it wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from economic necessity  ?
Whats the theory behind it being ok for everyone else to work from economic necessity but it isnt ok for hookers to work from economic necessity ?
Just genuinely curious 

I'm not an expert but I guess the theory is (not saying I agree with it) that society is set up in such a way that disadvantages women disproportionately. That life paths means that the amount and quality of opportunities afforded to women generally are less than they are to men.

What I think is the problem with a lot of arguments by the fundamentalist feminists is that they see this as a direct causal link to sex work, that it is some kind of conspiracy to force women to become sex workers. This view point puts them into the swivel-eyed category.

The fact that there may be a indirect link between the way society is set up and reactions to women (predominately those of child bearing age) which restricts options I think has some validity, but there are other factors too. Race, geography, class being three. There are fundamentalists that try to promote the particular disadvantaged group that they focus on at the expense of others.

But to answer your exact question...it depends how you define "economic necessity". You can't overcome coercion on the individual by equating it to you having to go out to work.

[cotton]

But to answer your exact question...it depends how you define "economic necessity". You can't overcome coercion on the individual by equating it to you having to go out to work.

I would suggest a reasonable interpretation of "economic necessity" is doing something based on the need for money.  So in the same way an average person works thru "economic necessity" , aka the need for money to pay their bills and pay for their lifestyle, my question remains ;
Is it wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from economic necessity  ? aka working from the need for money to pay their bills and their lifestyle.

Where are you bringing coercion into it ?

[sparkus]

I'm not a woman so I don't know how much credibility what I'm about to type has, but from my experiences most female envy I've seen is towards other women and not the patriarchy.

+1

[JontyR]

I would suggest a reasonable interpretation of "economic necessity" is doing something based on the need for money.  So in the same way an average person works thru "economic necessity" , aka the need for money to pay their bills and pay for their lifestyle, my question remains ;
Is it wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from economic necessity  ? aka working from the need for money to pay their bills and their lifestyle.

Where are you bringing coercion into it ?

Some here, no names no pack drill, would possibly use an argument of semantics to justify their actions if the answer to your question was "yeah, its fine, fill your boots"

It becomes more problematic when you consider the following - is a trafficked individual working off their passage working through "economic necessity"? Is a tenant gobbling off their landlord to pay their rent arrears working out of "economic necessity"?

[cotton]

Some here, no names no pack drill, would possibly use an argument of semantics to justify their actions if the answer to your question was "yeah, its fine, fill your boots"

It becomes more problematic when you consider the following - is a trafficked individual working off their passage working through "economic necessity"? Is a tenant gobbling off their landlord to pay their rent arrears working out of "economic necessity"?

But trafficking , coercion and exploitation are all discrete issues and wrong and prohibited by law , what i am asking is , do you agree with the unqualified blanket assertion that it is wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from "economic necessity"  ? aka working from the need for money to pay their bills and their lifestyle.
Most hookers working of their own volition are likely doing it for the money , are you saying its wrong to fuck them ? 
Imho the blanket statement in one stroke vilifies all punters who punt any girl who is working from financial necessity , irrespective of any other issues , so a guy who fucks a hooker who needs money is wrong.
Seems like an arguement the anti prostitution lobby would try and insinuate into the debate , imho its bullshit and shoudnt be pandered to. Theres enough anti prostitution people in society wanting to characterise all prostitution as exploitation without punters themselves coming out with this BS. 

[JontyR]

Most hookers working of their own volition are likely doing it for the money , are you saying its wrong to fuck them ? 

No I'm not saying that. As well you know.

Imho the blanket statement in one stroke vilifies all punters who punt any girl who is working from financial necessity , irrespective of any other issues , so a guy who fucks a hooker who needs money is wrong.
Seems like an arguement the anti prostitution lobby would try and insinuate into the debate , imho its bullshit and shoudnt be pandered to.

If I am interpreting you correctly you are asking for an absolute. But in ethics there are a lot more things that are shades of grey than are black and white. In asking for an absolute you are as equally as swivel eyed as the SWERFs - and your viewpoint as easily ignored.

Theres enough anti prostitution people in society wanting to characterise all prostitution as exploitation without punters themselves coming out with this BS.   

I am sorry if I didn't give you the answer you wanted. There will be plenty here that will give you the validation you seek. As I commented on another thread I you want someone to ignore their own feelings and pat your brow and agree with you, the going rate is £150 an hour.

[cotton]

No I'm not saying that. As well you know.

If I am interpreting you correctly you are asking for an absolute. But in ethics there are a lot more things that are shades of grey than are black and white. In asking for an absolute you are as equally as swivel eyed as the SWERFs - and your viewpoint as easily ignored.

I am sorry if I didn't give you the answer you wanted. There will be plenty here that will give you the validation you seek. As I commented on another thread I you want someone to ignore their own feelings and pat your brow and agree with you, the going rate is £150 an hour.

Its pretty simple. Im asking if you agree with the unqualified blanket assertion that it is wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from "economic necessity"  ? aka working from the need for money to pay their bills and their lifestyle.
A statement that vilifies all punters who punt any girl who is working from financial necessity , irrespective of any other issues.
But obviously you dont want to give a straight answer 

[Fuggedaboutit]

But trafficking , coercion and exploitation are all discrete issues and wrong and prohibited by law , what i am asking is , do you agree with the unqualified blanket assertion that it is wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from "economic necessity"  ? aka working from the need for money to pay their bills and their lifestyle.
Most hookers working of their own volition are likely doing it for the money , are you saying its wrong to fuck them ? 
Imho the blanket statement in one stroke vilifies all punters who punt any girl who is working from financial necessity , irrespective of any other issues , so a guy who fucks a hooker who needs money is wrong.
Seems like an arguement the anti prostitution lobby would try and insinuate into the debate , imho its bullshit and shoudnt be pandered to. Theres enough anti prostitution people in society wanting to characterise all prostitution as exploitation without punters themselves coming out with this BS. 

Sorry, when I originally mentioned "economic necessity" it was in the context of "being forced to do it through economic necessity", i.e. turning to prostitution because there is no "viable" alternative (such as shop/bar work or anything else). 

Of course we all work through economic "necessity", but we by and large are able to determine (unless in an economic downturn) what line of work suits us. I also used "necessity" as there's a difference betrween "need" and "want". Working to pay bills is "necessity", working to fund "lifestyle" surely comes under "wants"?

"so a guy who fucks a hooker who needs money is wrong. Seems like an arguement the anti prostitution lobby would try and insinuate into the debate" - they already do in some cases, the line of argument being that the wicked patriarchy have not provided sufficient alternatives....so, e.g. single mothers entering prostitution is because the establishment don't provide a sufficient safety net/benefits to prevent them going down that route

[JontyR]

Its pretty simple. Im asking if you agree with the unqualified blanket assertion that it is wrong to fuck a hooker who is working from "economic necessity"  ? aka working from the need for money to pay their bills and their lifestyle.
A statement that vilifies all punters who punt any girl who is working from financial necessity , irrespective of any other issues.
But obviously you dont want to give a straight answer 

But it's not simple is it? Her lifestyle you say - so is there no difference say between someone who wants a pair of loubitins, a mom who needs a new washing machine and a street girl who is in the clutches of some dealer/pimp who she needs to get her next wrap from.

You've actually changed your question. I almost always disagree with any unqualified blanket assertions. However such questions really serve no purpose apart from seeking to provide some kind of validation to the person throwing up that straw man.
 
Would you like a list of more reasonable questions that may move things forward or are you just interested in trying to score points?

[cotton]

Sorry, when I originally mentioned "economic necessity" it was in the context of "being forced to do it through economic necessity", i.e. turning to prostitution because there is no "viable" alternative (such as shop/bar work or anything else). 

Of course we all work through economic "necessity", but we by and large are able to determine (unless in an economic downturn) what line of work suits us. I also used "necessity" as there's a difference betrween "need" and "want". Working to pay bills is "necessity", working to fund "lifestyle" surely comes under "wants"?

"so a guy who fucks a hooker who needs money is wrong. Seems like an arguement the anti prostitution lobby would try and insinuate into the debate" - they already do in some cases, the line of argument being that the wicked patriarchy have not provided sufficient alternatives....so, e.g. single mothers entering prostitution is because the establishment don't provide a sufficient safety net/benefits to prevent them going down that route

So its wrong to see hookers who are coerced into prostitution by "economic necessity" and lack of other alternatives, so essentially poverty and lack of other opportunity.
I can see the moral arguement there , altho presumably that would preclude british girls woudnt it given social security provisions.
And thanks for clarifying 

[Jayne_cobb]

But it's not simple is it? Her lifestyle you say - so is there no difference say between someone who wants a pair of loubitins, a mom who needs a new washing machine and a street girl who is in the clutches of some dealer/pimp who she needs to get her next wrap from.

It’s an interesting moral quandary over whether paying an addict money for a blowjob in a dark alley is ethically more bankrupt than them stealing something to pay for their habit. Both are morally wrong but one action may prevent the other so would be less wrong to some degree.

One of my earliest punts was with a British wg who guilted me into a one pop 1 hour session when I had been planning on two as she was sore from shagging all day to earn enough to buy food for her kids. None of that felt good - that kind of economic necessity does no-one any favours.