More pernicious propaganda from Julie Bindel

[A Decent Fist]

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Unless German punters are all savage pigs, the survey she’s talking about must have been slanted to get exactly the results they wanted. This comment, for example, is so far from the truth it’s off the scale:

The problem is that, as one john said: “Once you’ve paid, you can do anything you like to her.”

Most of the reader comments underneath are very savvy about Julie Bindel’s bias. They get seriously weird lower down, mind you.

[Lambeth19]

Lot of unconsciousness bias in the research from reading the academic bio. Legal prostitution has more checks and balances to protect SP v illegal prostitution. Puritan nonsense!

[Home Alone]

WOW; I knew that Ms. Bindel's views were extreme; I didn't know quite how extreme until I read the link. Halfway down, there's a plug for an event to he held on Thursday about whether TERFs should link with the political Right.

I must have led a sheltered life - I haven't; believe me! - because I hadn't a clue what a TERF was. Google tells me it's someone who excludes the rights of trans women from any discussion of women's rights.

For once in my life, words really do fail me. If Ms. B is so extreme in her opinions, she is one seriously dangerous individual.

[A Decent Fist]

TERF: trans exclusionary radical feminist. Don’t know how you’ve avoided that one if you read any newspapers.

I actually agree with Julie Bindel on the trans issue. People born male should not compete in women’s sports nor have access to women’s refuges. Children should not be given puberty-blockers nor breast binders. She’s on the same side as JK Rowling, Sharon Davies, Kathleen Stock, Suzanne Moore and many others defending women’s rights. So are most of the political right and so am I, despite being someone who punts trans escorts now and then. That’s a sexual fetish, not a political stance.

It’s Bindel’s dishonest but determined campaign to make buying sex illegal that I take issue with.

[Home Alone]

TERF: trans exclusionary radical feminist. Don’t know how you’ve avoided that one if you read any newspapers.
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It's quite easy, actually, A Decent Fist. Perhaps I ought to delve more deeply into issues like this, but when the papers report on issues that I'm not particularly interested in - and this is one such - I tend to skim-read them. The acronym hadn't previously entered my consciousness.

[tynetunnel]

I’m aware of the TERF but I have no idea what it really means. I’m afraid that for this old git, while many things have moved forward into the 21st century in a positive way, at the same time a few things have not proven to be positive at all

People should be who they are, and live their lives within the law accordingly. I mean, this isn’t Qatar! I talk to someone and don’t even think about their sexuality or gender, an I really don’t care how they ‘identify’ But there’s a whole new world of hate and inclusion opening up in front of us, and being labelled a TERF is a part of it. Where will it all end? Gender neutral school toilets open for anyone to use, or anyone who ‘identifies’ as a woman can use women’s toilets/be accommodated in women’s prison.

Now it’s not even ‘woman’ but in such matters as menstruation those who do are defined as ‘people who bleed’ or ‘have a womb’ or some crap. LGBTIQ+  Anyone who disagrees with all this stuff is labelled as hostile, and indeed TERF amongst other things. Female university professors being ‘hounded’ from their jobs for having a different view on what it is to be a woman.  I fear for my children the most about the mad world they have been brought into.

I think that next time I’m caught getting ready for my swimming lesson in the women’s changing rooms, I shall say that today I woke up and feel like a woman and I identify as Edna Tunnel. What can they do about that? Who can prove that to be untrue. Heaven help anyone who dares to challenge me and say that I look and sound like a bloke, so shouldn’t be in there. Oh no, tonight Matthew, I am Edna from Edinburgh.

In the meantime I will resist for as long as possible the “suggestion” that I add “he/him” or “they” to my work email signature. I have toyed with the idea of changing it weekly, just to mix it up and confuse people. But really it’s nobody else’s business than mine. My parents named me. If my name confers my gender, then so be it. Equally it may not.

Luckily, I’m still keen on actual women and plan on spending some intimate time with one shortly. A review will follow. I apologise if anyone is offended or ‘triggered’ by this post. It’s unintentional 

[Private Parts]

Very drole TT!
Trust you enjoy this
Along with Incey Wincey Spider.
 

[Doc Holliday]

Unless German punters are all savage pigs, the survey she’s talking about must have been slanted to get exactly the results they wanted. This comment, for example, is so far from the truth it’s off the scale:

"The problem is that, as one john said: “Once you’ve paid, you can do anything you like to her.”

 

To be fair, that view is frequently also held by many UK punters. It has also often been expressed publicly in topics by some on here .... albeit a minority opinion.

[A Decent Fist]

To be fair, that view is frequently also held by many UK punters. It has also often been expressed publicly in topics by some on here .... albeit a minority opinion.

In the article this was meant to imply non-consensual bareback and unwanted rough treatment. I’ve never seen anyone on here in favour of the first and on the few occasions when someone boasts about the latter they get howled down and, very often, banned.

[Fuzzyduck]

In the article this was meant to imply non-consensual bareback and unwanted rough treatment. I’ve never seen anyone on here in favour of the first and on the few occasions when someone boasts about the latter they get howled down and, very often, banned.

Thanks for the article. An interesting read. There's more about the "research" here and suggests that German punters have a different attitude compared to punters in similar countries like the UK and US.
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I just can't identify with this and struggle to believe the data. If it's non-consensual then it's not on, whether you've paid for it or not. End of. However, depressingly, I can believe that some guys genuinely think it's OK. From what I've seen, any sniff of this kind of behaviour is not tolerated on here.

[Doc Holliday]

In the article this was meant to imply non-consensual bareback and unwanted rough treatment.

Does it? I cannot see where it implies that? Happy to be corrected? It appeared to be a stand alone statement from one punter?

The discussion around Prostitution is highly complex. The Julie Bindel's of this world have a biased agenda. The problem is that punting forums tend to have an opposing but also biased viewpoint. The reality is of what actually 'goes on out there' is somewhere in the middle. 

That middle ground includes the belief by some, that once you have paid for a sexual service the SP cannot say no, and the Laws around consent and Rape no longer apply. Some have posted as such on here and yes they are shouted down by the majority .. but that majority who are abhorred by the suggestion, is far from representative of the whole spectrum of punters 

[Doc Holliday]

I just can't identify with this and struggle to believe the data. If it's non-consensual then it's not on, whether you've paid for it or not. End of. However, depressingly, I can believe that some guys genuinely think it's OK. From what I've seen, any sniff of this kind of behaviour is not tolerated on here.

Thanks for that data set. Interesting. I agree it is depressing but that doesn't mean it isn't broadly correct.

SP's are better placed than 'hobbyist' punters on punting forums to say whether that data matches their own personal experiences .. but then again I would argue that SP's on forums are probably also not representative of all sex workers?

[Fuzzyduck]

Thanks for that data set. Interesting. I agree it is depressing but that doesn't mean it isn't broadly correct.
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Yes, hence my worry, though I'd want to see more robust research run by a neutral body. I don't believe you can get a representative view of how punters think from only asking 100 of them (in each country)

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SP's are better placed than 'hobbyist' punters on punting forums to say whether that data matches their own personal experiences .. but then again I would argue that SP's on forums are probably also not representative of all sex workers?

Agreed. The SPs on here seem to be mostly independent and have made their own choices about what they do. I doubt the trafficked and abused women get much of a voice anywhere.

[nbarnes]

Lot of unconsciousness bias in the research from reading the academic bio. Legal prostitution has more checks and balances to protect SP v illegal prostitution. Puritan nonsense!

Quite simply this. This is the end of the argument.

No matter how bad things are when it is legal, they will be worse when it is illegal.

Feminists need to stop thinking about the ideological things that disgust them and start protesting when the safeguards aren't being taken seriously by the powers that be.

Bindel is a simpleton and an intellectual charlatan, and I am amazed anyone still publishes any of the drivel she writes.

[Marmalade]

I try not to get annoyed by Julie Bindel amy more. She's a 'yellow journalist', left school at 15, as far as I can tell, has no academic qualifications whatsoever. No experience in critical thinking. Quite a lot of experience in journalism. Talks eye-catching shite, occasionally dressed up in academic-sounding language. She's a powerful public speaker. I don't deny anyone the right to state their views. What is of concern is when someone has the ability to speak convincingly and uses it to perpetrate things that aren't true.

Stating true facts over and over again is tiring and unfortunately not awfully newsworthy. Changing the emphases in education mighty help. A common idea in teaching is that debates help children to think. To see both sides. I'm not convinced they do. There are often more than two sides. There is often an ignored context. Debates just teach people how to win arguments by any means possible. At any cost, often quite Machiavellian. How to become influencers to use the modern term.

I don't have a quick answer. I think it's better to remain calm with such people and not enter into an argument.