Parlours / Agencies

[Haruki]

I have been reading about the Sandy's court case (there is a thread in the NW section for those interested). I know Sandy's was a "parlour" but can anyone tell me the difference between a parlour and an Incall agency?  I use an agency sometimes that has two girls working from the same flat controlled by a bloke answering the phone.  I'm wondering if this is actually an illegal parlour and the risk of it being raided while I'm there

[LLPunting]

Any property used by more than one sex worker either simultaneously or by rota or in turn is a brothel which is illegal.  The agencies are running the brothel(s) if they hold the leases on the properties or are organising the women's availability and locations.

That's the basic, others will be able to speak to the nuances

[daviemac]

I have been reading about the Sandy's court case (there is a thread in the NW section for those interested). I know Sandy's was a "parlour" but can anyone tell me the difference between a parlour and an Incall agency?  I use an agency sometimes that has two girls working from the same flat controlled by a bloke answering the phone.  I'm wondering if this is actually an illegal parlour and the risk of it being raided while I'm there

I would advise anyone indulging in this hobby to familiarise themselves with the legalities of of all, this CPS website is a good place to start. Read it carefully and it removes any ambiguity. Better that than a layman's opinion which may or may not be correct.

  External Link/Members Only   

[LLPunting]

I would advise anyone indulging in this hobby to familiarise themselves with the legalities of of all, this CPS website is a good place to start. Read it carefully and it removes any ambiguity. Better that than a layman's opinion which may or may not be correct.

  External Link/Members Only

Thanks 

"“Premises only become a brothel when more than one woman uses premises for the purposes of prostitution, either simultaneously or one at a time”: Stevens v Christy [1987] Cr. App. R. 249, DC. This implies that if two women are present, both must be there for the purposes of prostitution. In circumstances where prostitutes are working individually out of one flat but there is a rotation of occupants and the young women are moved on a regular basis, it does constitute a brothel.

However, where rooms or flats in one building are let separately to different individuals offering sexual services, it may be treated as a brothel only if the individuals are effectively working together. Donovan v Gavin [1965] 2 QB 648 established that “the letting of individual rooms in a house under separate tenancies and to different prostitutes does not necessarily preclude the house, or parts of it, from being a brothel”.

It is not necessary to prove that full sexual intercourse is offered at the premises. It is sufficient to prove that “more than one woman offered herself as a participant of physical acts of indecency for the sexual gratification of men”: Kelly v Purvis [1983] QB 663. "

[gary03]

Parlours are really for novice or play it safe punters,as your experience grows you can get more adventuous & find girls that suit your needs

[weeklypunter]

However they’re described legally is very different to reality. A parlour is just a walk up where you don’t need a booking is open set hours and often as the name of it on a sign outside. Quite the opposite of an agency with a incall place i would say.

[smiths]

However they’re described legally is very different to reality. A parlour is just a walk up where you don’t need a booking is open set hours and often as the name of it on a sign outside. Quite the opposite of an agency with a incall place i would say.

Incorrect, not ALL parlours which is just a fancy name for a brothel operate as walk-ups, in my area of London ALL are by appointment only nowadays though you could ring them from outside and ask if they have a WG immediately available. Walking in off the street without an appt used to be the norm for many years in my area but no longer.

[smiths]

I have been reading about the Sandy's court case (there is a thread in the NW section for those interested). I know Sandy's was a "parlour" but can anyone tell me the difference between a parlour and an Incall agency?  I use an agency sometimes that has two girls working from the same flat controlled by a bloke answering the phone.  I'm wondering if this is actually an illegal parlour and the risk of it being raided while I'm there

I see the legal punting bible, the CPS site has been linked in above, this gives the facts not the fantasy some idiots wrongly think the laws around punting are.

A parlour, a fancy name for a brothel ALWAYS provide the WGs premises to work out of which means the pimp/s running it are running a brothel, an Incall Agency doesn't always provide the WGs premises, the pimp/s may tell the WGs they have to provide the premises themselves which then means the pimp/s couldn't get done for running a brothel, one less charge to face if nicked.

Some brothels call themselves agencies on their websites but do provide the WGs premises which to me just makes them a parlour/brothel, some pimps think using the word agency makes them sound legit, they aren't. A parlour/brothel which include sex parties could get raided at any time by the police. Sandys operated for years, all that time the police were fully aware of them but decided to allow them to operate, the top cops are the ones who know why they took that decision.

An agency could be run from the pimps parents back bedroom as all that is needed is a computer and a phone or even just a phone nowadays.

[Ipman1973]

So....if there are  2 or more working in separate flats/ apartments  , but with a common entrance door/hallway ( in Scotland it's a "close" ) is the whole  building then a brothel ??

[daviemac]

So....if there are  2 or more working in separate flats/ apartments  , but with a common entrance door/hallway ( in Scotland it's a "close" ) is the whole  building then a brothel ??

No it's not, this tells you all you need to know, just read it.     It's the full legalities of prostitution directly from the people who know and who prosecute those who break the law.

  External Link/Members Only   

[Ipman1973]

No it's not, this tells you all you need to know, just read it.     It's the full legalities of prostitution directly from the people who know and who prosecute those who break the law.

  External Link/Members Only

"At the discretion of the police"...talk about shades of grey !!
Is there a lawyer in the house ?

[daviemac]

"At the discretion of the police"...talk about shades of grey !!
Is there a lawyer in the house ?

No different to getting stopped for speeding (and many other things), you can get a fixed penalty, summons to court or let off with a warning, it's up to the copper who stops you.

Police chiefs in different force areas have different ideas on what is acceptable, up to you to do research and due diligence and take what risks are acceptable to you. 

[JamesKW]

Any property used by more than one sex worker either simultaneously or by rota or in turn is a brothel which is illegal.  The agencies are running the brothel(s) if they hold the leases on the properties or are organising the women's availability and locations.

That's the basic, others will be able to speak to the nuances

Most EE WGs work in houses/flats with a group (possibly for safety reasons),oriental massage parlours could be classed as brothels.Its a bit of a thin line and a fair few of us have probably entered establishments that could be classed as brothels.

[Haruki]

Thanks for the replies, certainly a grey area but it sounds like the agency I sometimes use could be classed as a brothel under some interpretations and if those interpretations belong to the police then it is food for thought.  Indies are great but agencies are good for knowing there are always girls working on the one phone number rather than trying different girls to get a booking

[Malvolio]

As a punter I wouldn't let this bother you.  Being caught mid-punt in a police raid wouldn't be much fun, but all manner of shit could happen on a punt.  If you want a risk-free life then punting is not the hobby for you.  It's important to note that it's legal to punt unless the WG is under 18 or has been trafficked, so if you were in a brothel when it got raided the police / CPS wouldn't be after you.

[Home Alone]

... but best not to piss the police off if they raid a place when you're punting.

As I  understand it, you've done nothing illegal but if you try to be a barrack room lawyer, they can almost certainly make life difficult for you.