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Author Topic: "It's always about exploitation" (Sarah Ditum, Sunday Times, 27 August)  (Read 1240 times)

Offline Vice Admiral

This week’s Sunday Times featured an opinion piece by Sarah Ditum under the headline, “The sex trade has a mask for every age, but underneath it’s always about exploitation”.  Its main focus was OnlyFans.

Here are the final six paragraphs.  It is the last three that are relevant to us, but to be fair to Ditum I give the previous three for context.  And indeed I don’t imagine many of us would disagree with what she says about the appalling Andrew Tate.  However things go pear-shaped when she starts pontificating about prostitution.

Every once in a while, though, the less savoury side of OnlyFans breaks through to public view. Last week, it was making less flattering headlines, in association with the alleged rapist and human trafficker Andrew Tate, who is being prosecuted in Romania. The charges, if proven, would heavily implicate OnlyFans. Tate is accused of grooming women into believing they were his girlfriends, then convincing them to join OnlyFans. Along with three co-defendants, he allegedly controlled the income from this. One message reportedly declares their intention to “slave these bitches”.

All four deny wrongdoing. (OnlyFans says it can’t comment on an ongoing case, but points to policies designed to prevent abuse.) Still, “slave these bitches” is a good summary of the attitude to women Tate has promoted in his own videos. “I don’t mention webcam until after I have sex with a girl,” he says in one. “You don’t want a girl who’s in it for money. You want a girl who’s in it to be with you.”

It’s a cynical strategy but an astute one, because most women are reflexively appalled by the idea of commodifying themselves. Which is why pimps use the kind of “loverboy” techniques that Tate has described.

I once interviewed a woman who had been in prostitution. For her, as in the allegations of those who say they were abused by Tate, it started with a man she thought was her boyfriend. He asked her to have sex with his friend — and, eager to prove her love, she said yes.

This is what “sex work” almost always comes down to: a woman doing something she doesn’t want to and a man making her do it. The power the man in question holds over her might be emotional blackmail, it might be physical force or it might be her basic financial need.

It all amounts to something similar, however you garnish the sex trade with rhetoric about “empowerment” or sanitise it with glossy new technology. The industry will find another “acceptable face”, but it can never rid itself of its own squalid reality.


Ditum's generalising from a tiny sample is poor journalistic practice.  She “once” interviewed an ex-prostitute – and this leads her to assert that prostitution is “always” a case of “a woman doing something she doesn’t want to and a man making her do it”.

“Emotional blackmail”?  Very rare, I would have thought, although there is evidence that some Romanian pimps use such techniques.  “Physical force”?  Pretty rare too, other than sometimes in the murky world of Romanian and (in particular) Albanian pimps and traffickers. 

“Basic financial need”?  Yes, certainly, in most cases – but generally as the result of a conscious and considered decision to prefer the pay and the hours of the oldest profession to working at Harrods, Home Bargains or Happy Shopper.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2023, 10:08:53 am by Vice Admiral »

Online scutty brown

There's enough research work done on EE girls to indicate that of those who come to police attention, the "lover boy" technique is a significant cause of many of the girls moving into prostitution. It's a real problem. Emotional blackmail? - Yes: "If you love me you'll earn money for us"
« Last Edit: August 29, 2023, 10:12:17 am by scutty brown »

Offline vindici

Those journos don't do enough research and often have a SWERF attitude. If you want to know about escorts, then I think you should talk to escorts and not everyone but escorts.

Online daviemac

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What a load of absolute and utter bollocks, I don't know why you are giving this crap publicity, what with this and you working for SPs and having access to their AW accounts I do wonder about you.

This is just the opinion of someone who doesn't report facts, show the facts to back up what she claims.

Online Colston36

It is a curious fact that many conclusions reached by do-gooders are flawed by a patronising assumption.

One is that woman are gullible idiots exploited by men.

Some may be. But many years ago I lived with a lady who had made prodigious sums selling pussy.  When I asked her how she started on the slippery slide to eternal damnation, she said she didn't want to make fuck all as a secretary.

Offline tynetunnel

To be fair, the article is a lot broader than shown in this thread, which gives it more context. And it’s mostly just “opinion” from any of the members here, on any subject I would have thought (which is my opinion)

An opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement that is not conclusive, rather than facts, which are true statements.

Online scutty brown

It is a curious fact that many conclusions reached by do-gooders are flawed by a patronising assumption.

One is that woman are gullible idiots exploited by men.

Some may be. But many years ago I lived with a lady who had made prodigious sums selling pussy.  When I asked her how she started on the slippery slide to eternal damnation, she said she didn't want to make fuck all as a secretary.

Big difference though between a woman who's taken that deliberate decision in life, and a typical EE girl who more likely than not has been ensnared or trafficked.

Online big-al93

This is what “sex work” almost always comes down to: a woman doing something she doesn’t want to and a man making her do it. The power the man in question holds over her might be emotional blackmail, it might be physical force or it might be her basic financial need.

This is the bit I object to, because those that groom young women with loverboy tactics or use blackmail or physical threats to control women are obviously scum and need found out and locked up, preferably in the worst place legally allowed.

But to say that because a woman has basic financial needs and can choose to solve her problems by either turning to full time sex work or using it to supplement other income means that a man has to be exploiting her is frankly insulting to SP's and punters alike.

Most SP's I have met are fully aware of their goals and how they intend to achieve them. However not all are great at managing the money that they make and will struggle to actually achieve those goals.

Online RandomGuy99

I think journos don't really understand escorts and what makes them choose the job.

1. The indies I've seen are empowered strong women who have a goal (buy house/car/new boobs, help relatives, pay for medical bills, clear debts, get money for their future which gives them freedom to do what they like and potentially retire earlier and do something they enjoy, etc.) they want to achieve.

2. They look at the options available for achieving it (regular job earning regular wages having to put up with shit from your boss and BS from HR, bank robbery, winning the lottery, marry rich person)

3. They assess the options and the pros and cons of each including time required to achieve the goal, probability of achieving it, shit they have to put up with, how does it fit in with the other demands of their life (caring for children or other relatives, days of the week they can work, preference to work from home or travel, ease and cost of travelling, ...), etc.

4. They freely choose to try escorting. Not because they can't get enough cock, but because it allows them to achieve their goal more quickly or easily and with more certainty.  Like all jobs it has shit that comes with it. They accept that and manage the shit

5. Some enjoy or can deal well with the job and do it longer.  Some actually enjoy meeting random SSs from different walks of life to give them some sexual pleasure in return for some cash.  Others may do it for a shorter time to achieve their initial goal and then quit and go back to a "normal" job.

6. People judge SPs as dirty and disgusting and with loose morals. SPs may judge people working "normal" jobs who work long hours for little pay and who put up a load of shit from bosses as idiots.

The majority of SPs aren't being exploited well no more exploited that the rest of us doing "normal" jobs to pay our bills and achieve our goals in life.

I think the majority of the population struggles with detaching the act of sex from emotions (love, attraction, etc.)

People view it as an easy job. Open your legs, lie back and think of country of your choice and get paid. It's definitely not an easy job. It places both physical and mental demands on the SPs. Those that can deal with these demands survive and prosper. Those that can't, quit and do a less demanding job. 

People make choices. You may not fully understand their choices, but they're still allowed to make choices. They do what works for them. Just as you do what works for you.

We need less judging.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2023, 02:04:21 pm by RandomGuy99 »


Offline ulstersubbie





Most SP's I have met are fully aware of their goals and how they intend to achieve them. However not all are great at managing the money that they make and will struggle to actually achieve those goals.

A lot of dommes I've met have been financially savvy and invested wisely. I doubt many of them would want to be wielding a whip well into their seventies.

Offline unclepokey

The first woman I ever paid for sex began this profession quite simply for the money. She had a little girl and her husband had walked. She needed to provide a home and so on for herself and her little girl.
I met her in 2002 by which time she was an established independent with a really good reputation. Sadly for me after a few years later she gave up the sex trade. The reason was that her daughter started to ask 'what does mummy do for a living?'.
Looking through my spread sheet, which has some 80 women I've met, includes a majority who are/were 'in it' solely for the £££ and survival as an only source of income.. I have asked many of these women whether they enjoyed the work and the response is usually  'oh yes'.
I'm not surprised at this. If they didn't enjoy it they would not have been in the game long and I'm a right thinking punter and I avoid any case of a newbie and there is the faintest wisp of coercion, slavery etc. etc. I believe I am far from being alone in such matters.

So in my view therefore it is bollocks to describe these matters as in the title abov
 

Offline Munter84

More salacious, soft porn clickbait for curtain-twitchers.

Without wanting to downplay for a moment the seriousness of trafficking or pimping, it seems these are the only lenses mainstream media is willing to examine sex work through. Obviously, stories about independent British-born girls voluntariliy choosing to become escorts, or camgirls making good money from the safety of their own bedrooms, don't get people hot and bothered.

If your starting assumption is "It's always about exploitation" then fat chance of coming to a measured conclusion!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2023, 05:08:15 pm by Munter84 »

Online big-al93

The first woman I ever paid for sex began this profession quite simply for the money. She had a little girl and her husband had walked. She needed to provide a home and so on for herself and her little girl.
I met her in 2002 by which time she was an established independent with a really good reputation. Sadly for me after a few years later she gave up the sex trade. The reason was that her daughter started to ask 'what does mummy do for a living?'.
Looking through my spread sheet, which has some 80 women I've met, includes a majority who are/were 'in it' solely for the £££ and survival as an only source of income.. I have asked many of these women whether they enjoyed the work and the response is usually  'oh yes'.
I'm not surprised at this. If they didn't enjoy it they would not have been in the game long and I'm a right thinking punter and I avoid any case of a newbie and there is the faintest wisp of coercion, slavery etc. etc. I believe I am far from being alone in such matters.

So in my view therefore it is bollocks to describe these matters as in the title abov

They are hardly likely to say "no, all punters are creeps and it makes my skin crawl every time one of you touch me." though are they. Not saying it's the case, but probably will be for some. Hopefully not many but we will probably never know.

Offline the gardener

There's enough research work done on EE

I guess she never asked two of the women I had regular paid for meetings with over several years. Both were from Eastern Europe and both were very intelligent and seemed to enjoy the sex we had. Whether it was the enticement of the money or the pleasure of my company well, obviously it was the pleasure of my company :dancegirl:.

One had a part time job and used the income from her fun job to give her the money to live as she wanted and to save for the future. The other had a well paid job conversant with her educational attainments, a PhD, with overseas travel. I doubt they perceived they were being exploited.

I got to know them well over several years and had some very memorable and pleasurable trips abroad with them, separately of course. They both spoke three or four languages which made the overseas travel much easier for me with a lesser ability to make myself understood abroad.

In discussions over the years they saw me as a source of income to be exploited. The fun job they participated in was of their own choice, I doubt very much they saw themselves as being exploited.

Online SonofAJohn

What about all the men who do sex work then?
How does the journalist explain the equal amount of men who participate in sex work as escorts, onlyfans, cam work, stripping etc
Is it only women who are coerced, pressured and forced into sex trade while male sex workers have a jolly time with fair pay, holiday pay, sick pay and union rights...

Offline stampjones

Using her (borrowed) logic we should probably ban the church as well. A lot of kids got abused there. And the royal family. And probably schools too. I wonder if she’ll generalise up from small samples to make those cases too. Probably not

Offline PumpDump

Women have massive control men because they are the ones who decide if a man gets sex or not. They can withhold it if their partner is not acting the way they want, doing the things they want him to do. Men put up with all kinds of shit from women to get their dick wet. When there are women sell sex, it takes away the control other women have over their men. Imagine a world where it was socially acceptable for men to pay for sex, and a plentiful supply of women offering it. Men would no longer put up with the kind of shit this journalist probably dishes out to her man. So these kind of power hungry women will do everything they can to keep prostitution shameful and will shame the women who sell sex and the men who buy it.