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Author Topic: Ugly Mugs site.  (Read 4903 times)

Online MissWolf

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Where did I say this? My statement was they have been know to post false reports I was not specifically saying on UglyMugs, if I worded it to sound like I meant UglyMugs then yes I’m wrong  :hi:

You 100% know that you worded it to mean UglyMugs on a thread about UglyMugs it was never going to be taken any other way, which again you 100% knew.

You posted like that to try and appear clever and to try and cast doubt on a very serious safety tool for sex workers which is a malicious and low thing to do.

You are only making a half hearted admission to being wrong as you are backed into a corner of your own making

Pretty shite behaviour all found really Finn, I suggest you give your head a wobble  :thumbsdown:


Offline FiveKnuckles

Perhaps if more punters knew of it they might behave better.

Any punter that needs to remind themselves to behave, sounds like a dodgy cunt already.   You don't go to a newagent and think, oh I better behave and not nick the sweets.  :unknown:

Should be an instant red flag for the SP if a punter ask about UM or CE.  "Why what did you do?"

Offline LLPunting

...

Should be an instant red flag for the SP if a punter ask about UM or CE.  "Why what did you do?"

As has been differentiated in this thread and elsewhere UM and CE are different creatures, the latter repeatedly found to be in error.  A punter asking about being on CE isn't automatically suspect, regardless of being naive or informed about the "service".  If a punter mentions UM to an SP and it having been established he knows what it's for he asks if he's on it, then them bells start a clanging.

Offline JD1

As has been differentiated in this thread and elsewhere UM and CE are different creatures, the latter repeatedly found to be in error.  A punter asking about being on CE isn't automatically suspect, regardless of being naive or informed about the "service".  If a punter mentions UM to an SP and it having been established he knows what it's for he asks if he's on it, then them bells start a clanging.

I would agree with this, while both are useful tools for SPs, ClientEye is more open to abuse and can also be for far less serious things than UglyMugs (e.g. no show for a booking vs being a rapist).

Out of curiosity I have actually asked an SP in the past if I have any ClientEye reports - turns out I don’t, which is what I expected.

Offline datwabbit

Due to prossies being known to post malicious reports  :rolleyes:

+1. It's been known to happen. Thing is, it lessens the impact of a site which was created to do good.

Offline datwabbit

I cant see many malicious reports being made on ugly mugs as rape claims, robbery and assault will be followed up by police as a serious crime.

We know of instances where an sp has posted a report for time wasting. I accept that those kind of reports are in the minority but you asked why a punter would want to check.

Offline datwabbit

This is for serious life threatening crimes. It saves lives. If youre on there its 99.9999% sure that youve done something wrong. Whos going to report a serious crime just to get back at a client? 1 or 2 out of thousands? Malicious reports would be made on other safety apps where reporting is anonymous

Are you vouching for the honesty of every escort?

You can't and as such you're wrong.

Offline JD1

We know of instances where an sp has posted a report for time wasting. I accept that those kind of reports are in the minority but you asked why a punter would want to check.
Not this again.. are you talking about ClientEye rather than UglyMugs? Reports on the latter are for serious criminal offences and not things like time wasting.

Offline datwabbit

Not this again.. are you talking about ClientEye rather than UglyMugs? Reports on the latter are for serious criminal offences and not things like time wasting.

No. An incident happened where a punter was reported on NUM for time wasting. That's what i know. It kicked off a series of sp discussions on a sp WhatsApp group which became public but it started with a NUM report which wasn't appropriate for NUM.

So my point is not all sp's will use the site appropriately.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 08:21:23 pm by datwabbit »

Offline JD1

No. An incident happened where a punter was reported on NUM for time wasting. That's what i know. It kicked off a series of sp discussions on a sp WhatsApp group which became public but it started with a NUM report which wasn't appropriate for NUM.

So my point is not all sp's will use the site appropriately.

Maybe I’m wrong then.. I thought UM was for things way more serious than that.

Their website describes it as being a tool to ‘report incidents of harm, crime or violence against you.’ I wouldn’t have thought time wasting came under that category.

Maybe some of the SPs who have commented on this thread can confirm the type of content on there for us.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 08:27:01 pm by JD1 »

Offline datwabbit

Maybe I’m wrong then.. I thought UM was for things way more serious than that.

Their website describes it as being a tool to ‘report incidents of harm, crime or violence against you.’ I wouldn’t have thought time wasting came under that category.

Maybe some of the SPs who have commented on this thread can confirm the type of content on there for us.

No you're right. It was designed for important stuff but the point is that it can be abused.

So it's not a case of me as a punter questioning the site and it's purpose. I'm making the point that you will get people abusing it. This could be because of malice, stupidity or accident.

Offline LLPunting

No. An incident happened where a punter was reported on NUM for time wasting. That's what i know. It kicked off a series of sp discussions on a sp WhatsApp group which became public but it started with a NUM report which wasn't appropriate for NUM.

So my point is not all sp's will use the site appropriately.

You describe an abuse that was addressed by UM and its SP community that only supports the integrity of its intent. 
Whilst you have rationalised your minor point, it is a pointless point to be emphatic about that a service will be abused, especially as Finn did, whether to deliberately or by ineptitude undermine the service without qualification.   What matters is how any service deals with attempts to abuse it through mitigation or moderation.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 09:04:04 pm by LLPunting »

Offline JD1

You describe an abuse that was addressed by UM and its SP community that only supports the integrity of its intent. 
Whilst you have rationalised your minor point, it is a pointless point to be emphatic about that a service will be abused, especially as Finn did, whether to deliberately or by ineptitude undermine the service without qualification.   What matters is how any service deals with attempts to abuse it through mitigation or moderation.
Thanks for the wider context and giving the full story. :thumbsup:

Offline lillythesavage

  I'm just interested in the comments that might follow.. Many might not even be aware pf the site.


Well the comments that followed were a fun read  :lol:

Is there any need to be aware of it?  In this age of tech and checks and balances, common sense should say something is there  :unknown:

If you never have to change the sim in your punting phone, only change it for financial or supplier reasons, or use your personal phone and never had a problem, then I doubt you would appear on any of them  :unknown:

If you need to use 3 sims to get a booking, then you may well be.  :lol:

Offline LLPunting


Well the comments that followed were a fun read  :lol:

Is there any need to be aware of it?  In this age of tech and checks and balances, common sense should say something is there  :unknown:

If you never have to change the sim in your punting phone, only change it for financial or supplier reasons, or use your personal phone and never had a problem, then I doubt you would appear on any of them  :unknown:

If you need to use 3 sims to get a booking, then you may well be.  :lol:

I have a private number for regulars that isn't my "real" personal number and then I have 1 or 2 punting numbers that are disposable because every so often I start getting spammed because an SP's call history has been compromised by hackers.  And there's the odd occasion where an SP blocks you because you had the timerity to have to cancel for genuine circumstances and you do want to meet her (sometimes subsequently regretted).

Online daviemac

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No. An incident happened where a punter was reported on NUM for time wasting. That's what i know. It kicked off a series of sp discussions on a sp WhatsApp group which became public but it started with a NUM report which wasn't appropriate for NUM.

So my point is not all sp's will use the site appropriately.
I presume you are referring to the 'cauldron girls'? However you say yourself that the report was not appropriate for NUM so that in itself reduces that opportunity to misuse the site.

As NUM is designed for the more serious reports such as assault or rape the chances of malicious use is far less than other sites that do not liaise with the police to the extent they do.

The likelihood of a site being abused is one thing that has to be considered and out of all the sites I would say NUM is by far the least likely to accept fake reports.

If anyone can link to a report that something of the nature NUM is designed for has been posted maliciously and falsely then please do.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 10:08:23 pm by daviemac »

Online finn5555

So we are now saying UglyMugs have had malicious reports posted?
After everyone saying it could never happen 🤷‍♂️

Offline lillythesavage

I have a private number for regulars that isn't my "real" personal number and then I have 1 or 2 punting numbers that are disposable because every so often I start getting spammed because an SP's call history has been compromised by hackers.  And there's the odd occasion where an SP blocks you because you had the timerity to have to cancel for genuine circumstances and you do want to meet her (sometimes subsequently regretted).

Not quite the same thing  :lol:, I meant those that mention trying for week and getting blanked, then using another sim  :lol:. Would guess it is blanked for a reason  :unknown:

Only one way to avoid the regrettable, go with the blocking and ignore  :lol:

Online daviemac

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So we are now saying UglyMugs have had malicious reports posted?
After everyone saying it could never happen 🤷‍♂️
I keep saying it if you have evidence then post it if not stop trolling. What datwabbit mentioned was not a report suitable for that site that's why it caused an issue.
It was an attempt to misuse the site that didn't work. Posting a report on the lines of what the site is intended for that is false would get the person reporting in deep shit.

So yet again post evidence of any misuse of NUM. 

Online finn5555

I keep saying it if you have evidence then post it if not stop trolling. What datwabbit mentioned was not a report suitable for that site that's why it caused an issue.
It was an attempt to misuse the site that didn't work. Posting a report on the lines of what the site is intended for that is false would get the person reporting in deep shit.

So yet again post evidence of any misuse of NUM.

So you are saying a malicious report was not posted? A simple yes or no will suffice

Online daviemac

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So you are saying a malicious report was not posted? A simple yes or no will suffice
An escort tried to post a malicious report for a punter being a timewaster but it didn't work because that is not what the site is for, so no a malicious report was not posted.

To put it in simple terms that you will understand NO.

If you know different the post then evidence.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 10:50:26 pm by daviemac »

Online finn5555

An escort tried to post a malicious report for a punter being a timewaster but it didn't work

Thanks  :thumbsup:

Offline datwabbit

I keep saying it if you have evidence then post it if not stop trolling. What datwabbit mentioned was not a report suitable for that site that's why it caused an issue.
It was an attempt to misuse the site that didn't work. Posting a report on the lines of what the site is intended for that is false would get the person reporting in deep shit.

So yet again post evidence of any misuse of NUM.

Correct. I have no evidence of false reports of the correct reasons to use it.

Online daviemac

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Correct. I have no evidence of false reports of the correct reasons to use it.
It's just finn5555 doing his usual trolling, he came across as all for UglyMugs 3 years ago, didn't mention anything about the system being abused on that thread when Lilywhite posted what her last reports were for?

I know a lot can change over time that is why I keep asking him to show some evidence to back up his change in attitude on this thread.

This is what Lilywhite posted about NUM on that thread 3 years ago. 

 
Reporting on UMs isn't just as simple as filling in a short message like on SAAFE.
The things you report for are- rape, theft, blackmail, assault, stalking. You get warnings about people being released from prison in your area.
A high percentage of the warnings come directly from police who liaise with workers. If you report something there are options to take things further. I have been given direct links to an officer after I posted something years ago.
It's not just something you go "Oh that guy was a bit annoying I think I'll make things tough for him" like people can do on SAAFE, it's used not just by workers to keep safe, but for gathering evidence in cases also.
I think if you read some of the warnings you'd realise that it is a very valuable tool that wouldn't be easy to abuse.


On this thread finn5555 is using something from a 4 year old thread, that he didn't post on at the time, to claim he knows NUM get abused.

The only thing the escort from the incident 4 years ago achieved was us finding out several of them had a group chat where they were slagging punters off
« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 08:34:32 am by daviemac »

Offline Strawberry

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It's just finn5555 doing his usual trolling, he came across as all for UglyMugs 3 years ago, didn't mention anything about the system being abused on that thread when Lilywhite posted what her last reports were for?

I know a lot can change over time that is why I keep asking him to show some evidence to back up his change in attitude on this thread.

This is what Lilywhite posted about NUM on that thread 3 years ago. 

 

On this thread finn5555 is using something from a 4 year old thread, that he didn't post on at the time, to claim he knows NUM get abused.

The only thing the escort from the incident 4 years ago achieved was us finding out several of them had a group chat where they were slagging punters off

Correct it was quite a lengthy form, I haven't had the need to report for a while if I do the person is definitely, and clearly causing distress - and he will have most likely had a warning or request to stop from myself. I believe the format has been tidied up - it was I suspect putting people off reporting. Also as I understand it NUM reports are vetted by a person, they wouldn't just let timewaster or cancelled become a warning.

Regards asking SPs to check, showing other people or telling other people about reports on safety systems can be counterproductive and even put SPs at risk. For example a SS could then try to figure out who has left that report and make quite a bit of trouble for her. Some safety systems ban SPs from using them if it's found they showed warnings to SSs. An SP who shows someone reports, or tells them about it could be putting themselves at risk.

Offline JD1

An SP who shows someone reports, or tells them about it could be putting themselves at risk.

It sounds fairly common for SPs to tell people they are refusing to see them because of bad reports - more so in regard to CE reports than MUN but I always think this undermines things as well. This just leads to punters changing phone numbers and usernames to distance themselves from their negative reports. Plenty of posts come up on here about it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 09:33:14 am by JD1 »

Online finn5555


On this thread finn5555 is using something from a 4 year old thread, that he didn't post on at the time, to claim he knows NUM get abused.



Totally incorrect I knew nothing of that thread until it was mentioned last night hence why I never posted on it.
Also I did not claim I know NUM gets abused I stated it’s potentially open to abuse but my wording of that statement was misconstrued.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 09:32:05 am by finn5555 »

Online daviemac

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Totally incorrect I knew nothing of that thread until it was mentioned last night hence why I never posted on it.
Also I did not claim I know NUM gets abused I stated it’s potentially open to abuse but my wording of that statement was misconstrued.
Your words and first post on this thread in response to Hottest Kat questioning why the OP started a thread about UglyMugs, how can that be misconstrued

Due to prossies being known to post malicious reports  :rolleyes:

The 'open to abuse' came in your backtracking later on.

Online finn5555

Your words and first post on this thread in response to Hottest Kat questioning why the OP started a thread about UglyMugs, how can that be misconstrued


Yet again your wrong but that’s your opinion  :hi:

I have explained and apologised and you accuse me of being a troll  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 09:55:35 am by finn5555 »

Offline Lou2019

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Due to prossies being known to post malicious reports  :rolleyes:

Here we go again, you’re like a broken record  :rolleyes:

Offline jeanphillipe

Yet again your wrong but that’s your opinion  :hi:

I have explained and apologised and you accuse me of being a troll  :rolleyes:

Let this one go Finn, can't win em all.  :drinks:

Hate to lose you.

Lost some really good members who wouldn't back down


Online finn5555

Here we go again, you’re like a broken record  :rolleyes:

Welcome to the discussion Lou, surprised took you so long 😂

Online finn5555

Let this one go Finn, can't win em all.  :drinks:

Hate to lose you.

Lost some really good members who wouldn't back down

Your right, I’ve explained where I was coming from time to move on 👍🏻


Offline Lou2019

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Offline tp69

You describe an abuse that was addressed by UM and its SP community that only supports the integrity of its intent. 
Whilst you have rationalised your minor point, it is a pointless point to be emphatic about that a service will be abused, especially as Finn did, whether to deliberately or by ineptitude undermine the service without qualification.   What matters is how any service deals with attempts to abuse it through mitigation or moderation.

This.

@Fin read the comment above. Stop. Breathe. Move on.

Offline standardpostage

Remember Toby Jugs ?

Some of them where Ugly Mugs  :)

Online Bru1901

I get where finn is coming from

If you contact a wg who thinks of you as a timewaster she will write a bad report on clienteye or saafe etc

The problem is many make a mountain out of a molehill and will go on a rampage which is his point.

Hes merely implying anyone could make a fake report as its not validated even at police investigative level.

Wgs will always say they are blameless but this game is all about security too for both punter and wg

Forums exist for the wgs but as they are unverified and anyone could potentially signup without verification they are not foolproof

Its why everyone has burner numbers and aw feedback ultimately is useless

While some wgs are guilty of the above i would say there are far more punters who are cunts and fit categories on ugly mugs

Online daviemac

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I get where finn is coming from

If you contact a wg who thinks of you as a timewaster she will write a bad report on clienteye or saafe etc

The problem is many make a mountain out of a molehill and will go on a rampage which is his point.

Hes merely implying anyone could make a fake report as its not validated even at police investigative level.

Wgs will always say they are blameless but this game is all about security too for both punter and wg

Forums exist for the wgs but as they are unverified and anyone could potentially signup without verification they are not foolproof

Its why everyone has burner numbers and aw feedback ultimately is useless

While some wgs are guilty of the above i would say there are far more punters who are cunts and fit categories on ugly mugs
This thread is about UglyMugs and that is nothing at all like ClientEye or SAAFE, the making a report is different, things that get reported are different. UglyMugs is designed for things that warrant a police investigation and possible arrests and charges.

Offline bristolnick

As said above I'm not, Perhaps if more punters knew of it they might behave better.

This website should not be a reason to behave better. People behave regardless.

Offline JustaPunter

This thread is about UglyMugs and that is nothing at all like ClientEye or SAAFE, the making a report is different, things that get reported are different. UglyMugs is designed for things that warrant a police investigation and possible arrests and charges.

Exactly this.

UM is for the protection of SW from those who commit criminal acts against them.

Not for reporting punters that leave a mess in the bathroom or who are timewasters.

Online Bru1901

Exactly this.

UM is for the protection of SW from those who commit criminal acts against them.

Not for reporting punters that leave a mess in the bathroom or who are timewasters.

The name uglymugs just suggests muppets. I guess its designed for those in the know and keeps them safe as its intended to be


Offline Lou2019

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Offline LLPunting

I get where finn is coming from

If you contact a wg who thinks of you as a timewaster she will write a bad report on clienteye or saafe etc

The problem is many make a mountain out of a molehill and will go on a rampage which is his point.

Hes merely implying anyone could make a fake report as its not validated even at police investigative level.

Wgs will always say they are blameless but this game is all about security too for both punter and wg

Forums exist for the wgs but as they are unverified and anyone could potentially signup without verification they are not foolproof

Its why everyone has burner numbers and aw feedback ultimately is useless

While some wgs are guilty of the above i would say there are far more punters who are cunts and fit categories on ugly mugs

Finn was either making a pedant's insignificant point or trolling.  He was doing nothing to advance the discussion let alone bring real evidence to it.

I would hazard that most SPs simply ignore or block (unfairly) suspected timewasters (and worse) they don't spend time adding to a collective database or reporting them to the authorities.  That's based on admittedly cursory assessment of various regional and national commentaries by sex workers, academia, press, police, local and national governments over the years.  And my anecdotal discussions with dozens of SPs over the same.

Your language suggests a prejudice to believe SPs are inclined to cause trouble for punters.  Perhaps it was just (bad) luck of the draw or the demographic of SPs in the areas you've fished in, I'd hate to think you were just generalising without broad evidence beyond just the girls you've paid.
"Many" is a subjective label that does your argument no credit.
The contributors on at least some SP forums are not representative of all women who are SPs. 

Of the many hundreds of SPs I've encountered here and abroad in parlours, agencies, brothels, indie apartments and walk-ups the number of girls who have tried to cause me grief either by direct contact or through their management can't be more than a half dozen in some 30 years.  Most of them have been pretty reasonable and if not friendly then perfunctory but polite.  Even if I consider just the Romanians I've met they were mostly contemptuous in the room rather than a haunting threat.   
The one class of SP I've avoided is streetwalkers so perhaps that has skewed my experience more favourably but I generally try to avoid substance abusers, the likely heavily abused and profligate unsafe BBers so perhaps my filter bubble is rosier in some respects than yours.  :unknown:

Offline LLPunting

...While some wgs are guilty of the above i would say there are far more punters who are cunts and fit categories on ugly mugs

I would agree your last statement is your most "true" and telling. 

In the few years I've been here we've surfaced and ejected more malign punters than the few troublemaker SPs who sought to do me real mischief.  And there are far more here, both vocal and lurking, whose actions and resentment do more to harass, abuse and endanger SPs and the rest of us.

Offline stevesucks69

So I know I am on clienteye as a sp screenshot it to me recently when running late (booking went ahead anyway!)
1 is when I walked due to not being as advertised and the second was traffic so I was so late did message them but they did not care about it.
This does not worry me at all.
With regards to Uglymugs I'll never ever behave in such a way that a SP would feel the need to use it for me. No violence, no forcing myself on someone and no robbery or anything related.
All service providers are humans so I respect them, they do what they do for their own reasons which is why I dont use the terms whore etc. If anything I've generally found being friendly and respectful often leads to a fabulous time and sometimes the service included extra unexpected fun for free

Offline JD1

I just found out today that an SP has posted some made up crap about me on ClientEye. I’d still stand by my comments about UglyMugs being a more serious platform and I feel no need to check if I am on there.

Offline stevesucks69

I just found out today that an SP has posted some made up crap about me on ClientEye. I’d still stand by my comments about UglyMugs being a more serious platform and I feel no need to check if I am on there.

Same here I want all those sexy lovely ladies to be safe after I leave

Offline JustaPunter

We know of instances where an sp has posted a report for time wasting. I accept that those kind of reports are in the minority but you asked why a punter would want to check.

Please list the instance when a SW has used UglyMugs to make a Police Report regarding time wasting.