Decriminalise Brothels

[Mansell]

This has just come up in the NE Section, but it's of Nationwide interest so I am reposting here.

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To sign all you need is a name, email address and Postcode. So I suggest you use you punting one  to stay anonymous. You then have to click a link from a reply to your email to confirm it.

Get signing, hopefully is will change things.

[James999]

Brothels attract pimps & drug dealers, they are correctly criminalised and should stay so.

Far better for a girl to make her own arrangemets with clients without paying a pimp.

The "for safety" is bollocks as another 7 stone pro$$ie in the property is not as effective security as a 15 stone minder, in fact brothels get targeted by thieves and drug dealers as such magnets for crime 

[Mansell]

Hear what you say James, but not convinced. Anything that is legalised can then legally get rid of the criminals.

It's the 2 or 3 girls in a flat which would be great to see made legal, that just makes so much sense.

[Cuntminion]

Nope I signed one of those fucking things to save penguins in Bristol or something

Now I get inundated with change org requests

It's the digital equipment of giving a hobo a pound in Charing cross you never get left alone after

[Cuntminion]

Brothels attract pimps & drug dealers, they are correctly criminalised and should stay so.

Far better for a girl to make her own arrangemets with clients without paying a pimp.

The "for safety" is bollocks as another 7 stone pro$$ie in the property is not as effective security as a 15 stone minder, in fact brothels get targeted by thieves and drug dealers as such magnets for crime 

+1

Indys over brothels any day

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[nike]

Brothels attract pimps & drug dealers, they are correctly criminalised and should stay so.

Far better for a girl to make her own arrangemets with clients without paying a pimp.

The "for safety" is bollocks as another 7 stone pro$$ie in the property is not as effective security as a 15 stone minder, in fact brothels get targeted by thieves and drug dealers as such magnets for crime 

I have to disagree with you James. There are legal brothels, licensed , in the states, Australia and various other countries, which function within the law and are not controlled by criminals. Also the clubs in Manchester and the saunas in Edinburgh have proved that it is possible to run these establishments safely , for the women and the punters.

[Ben4454]

Cameron might want to de-criminalise some brothels...

Some of the courtesians i've seen on some brothels are pigs

[G.Raff]

Hear what you say James, but not convinced. Anything that is legalised can then legally get rid of the criminals.

It's the 2 or 3 girls in a flat which would be great to see made legal, that just makes so much sense.

+1 
Well said

[smiths]

I have to disagree with you James. There are legal brothels, licensed , in the states, Australia and various other countries, which function within the law and are not controlled by criminals. Also the clubs in Manchester and the saunas in Edinburgh have proved that it is possible to run these establishments safely , for the women and the punters.

The OP said decriminalisation in the thread title, that's not the same thing as legalisation of course. With the former the situation we have now would be similar in my view but pimps would have less chance of getting nicked.

With Legalisation would come regulation and the costs of that I have no doubt would passed on too punters. In Australia I read that all covered services are the ones on offer, no OWO officially for example which doesn't suit me.

I don't have a problem with WGs deciding to work together in the same premises and this should be allowed in my view, but not if a pimp is involved. The problem would be how would punters and the police know a pimp wasn't actually involved.

[James999]

Pro$$ies would not want to work in a legitimate brothel with tax and national insurance involved as well as other regulation fees, business rates insurance etc, not to mention the fact it would probably fuck up their benefits 

[AnthG]

In my opinion I think there should be a distinction between brothels. And just two girls working from the same flat for peace of mind of both.

I think 2 girls in a flat should definitely be legal. And is total commonsense for it to be so.

I also think brothels should be legal. But the problem is when people say brothels should be legal. Everyone always thinks stuff in their head of 20 girls crammed into a flat with a minder looking over them all the time.

But really two girls in a flat is a brothel too. But because people think the above it will never happen. So the arguments need to be split to the government

[Jimmyredcab]

Pro$$ies would not want to work in a legitimate brothel with tax and national insurance involved as well as other regulation fees, business rates insurance etc, not to mention the fact it would probably fuck up their benefits 

Prostitutes want to keep off the radar, they are probably getting their rent paid by benefits, going "legal" would cost them far too much money, it's not going to happen anyway.     

[Mansell]

In my opinion I think there should be a distinction between brothels. And just two girls working from the same flat for peace of mind of both.

I think 2 girls in a flat should definitely be legal. And is total commonsense for it to be so.

I also think brothels should be legal. But the problem is when people say brothels should be legal. Everyone always thinks stuff in their head of 20 girls crammed into a flat with a minder looking over them all the time.

But really two girls in a flat is a brothel too. But because people think the above it will never happen. So the arguments need to be split to the government

Totally agree Anth, 2 girls in a flat just makes so much sense to protect the girls which is why so many of them do it. But straight away it's classed by the law as a Brothel. Just seems crazy to me hence wanting to see the law changed. Personally I'm not too bothered about the big brothels either way but agree that they are more attractive to criminals to get involved in.

My comments are based on me mainly seeing AW girls a lot of whom in the NE share premises. Because this is illegal they have problems getting flats as they don;t want to use their real names. They then end up dealing with landlords who are also acting illegally and therefore tend to be more criminally based. Very big generalisation, but my point is that if the flat sharing was not a criminal offence then they could use their real names and rent off normal landlords not having to go anywhere near the criminals. The law just seems stupid.

[James999]

but my point is that if the flat sharing was not a criminal offence then they could use their real names and rent off normal landlords

No they couldn't, most leases exclude the use of the property for prostitution 

And seriously even if they didn't no llegal landlord would want his property used as a knocking shop 

I appreciate you may have good intentions, but you've listened to to much pro$$ie crap, they don't really want it (Tax etc) and the laws not going to change, and even if it did it wouldn't change things, leases that are set for 999 years and issued decades ago are not going to be re written to accomodate prostitution.

Next time a pro$$ie brings it up steer the conversation around to them registering paying tax NI etc, and see how quickly they lose interest.

[AnthG]

I appreciate you may have good intentions, but you've listened to to much pro$$ie crap, they don't really want it (Tax etc) and the laws not going to change, and even if it did it wouldn't change things, leases that are set for 999 years and issued decades ago are not going to be re written to accomodate prostitution.

All the government needs to do as a bare minimum is just change the word from two to three, or four inside the legal statutes for brothels.

As in three girls working from the same flat constitutes to a brothel but two does not.

Tenancy agreements will likely just say "the premises is not to be used as a brothel" and with the law change from two to three they'd still be inside of it.

[James999]

Anth it's not just tenancy agreements it's leases, these typically mention prostitution and also tend to have clauses mentioning termssuch as "immoral" and as I said before no law abiding landlord is going to want to rent out a property to be used as a knocking shop 

[Jimmyredcab]

Anth it's not just tenancy agreements it's leases, these typically mention prostitution and also tend to have clauses mentioning termssuch as "immoral" and as I said before no law abiding landlord is going to want to rent out a property to be used as a knocking shop 

Many landlords would be happy to rent their properties to prostitutes if there were no legal problems -------- at a slight premium obviously.   

[James999]

Many landlords would be happy to rent their properties to prostitutes if there were no legal problems -------- at a slight premium obviously.   

But as you are aware pro$$ies expect things for FREE or as low a price as possible, from a landlords perspective if it's a flat then he could likely fall in breach of his head lease and forfeit / lose the property, and for what benefit?

Leases also cover illegal & immoral as well as disturbing / disruption of neighbours & property for residential use only,  etc, why would a proper / legal landlord bother to let it to pro$$ies with those problems when he could rent it to a working couple 

[Jimmyredcab]

But as you are aware pro$$ies expect things for FREE or as low a price as possible, from a landlords perspective if it's a flat then he could likely fall in breach of his head lease and forfeit / lose the property, and for what benefit?

Leases also cover illegal & immoral as well as disturbing / disruption of neighbours & property for residential use only,  etc, why would a proper / legal landlord bother to let it to pro$$ies with those problems when he could rent it to a working couple 

A pro$$ie is less likely to "trash" a property, many letting agents don't vet tenants properly and are only interested in their management fees.   

[Turtle1]

Brothels are like that for a reason, we want more Indi girls. Thanks to the downfall of brothels we've seen a drop in price and I'm guessing WG's are taking more money home.

[James999]

A pro$$ie is less likely to "trash" a property, many letting agents don't vet tenants properly and are only interested in their management fees.   

Have you tried renting a property Jimmy, I think you will be surprised at the amount of checking and vetting, and mostly done through tenant reference agencies (with the bill passed to the tenant of course) so why / how would they not do it properly. In fact I'd go as far as to say that you'd find it difficult to rent (not that you want to) a £1250 a month flat in London.

As for a pro$$ie being less likely to trash a place, I wouldn't agree, a working couple who are at work all day and then perhaps the odd dinner party are far less likely to cause damage than a pro$$ie having a stream of clients, with every Tom dick and Abdul flushing condoms and wet wipes down the drain, and banging her senseless in every room with a bed / soft furnishing / floor   

[cockneybstrd]

I dont see why people think it will reduce/eliminate the involvement in the criminal fraternity in Brothels

I havent seen if this has been discussed but a notice that European Court of Justice supported the Amsterdam authorities in not giving a licence to a owner because he couldnt speak the same language as his whores 

[smiths]

All the government needs to do as a bare minimum is just change the word from two to three, or four inside the legal statutes for brothels.

As in three girls working from the same flat constitutes to a brothel but two does not.

Tenancy agreements will likely just say "the premises is not to be used as a brothel" and with the law change from two to three they'd still be inside of it.

This government has shown zero interest in doing this though so its pie in the sky fantasy. Police forces can seize a pimps assets under POCA so I am not hearing they want to decriminalise brothels either, and as I said above decriminalisation ISNT legalisation anyway.

Personally I cant see either decriminalisation or legalisation happening here anytime soon as the government of any party would be too shit scared of the femi-nazis to do it, its also not exactly a vote winning issue, in fact it COULD be a vote losing issue and especially with older Tory voters.

And the other very important issue about prostitution is it gives men mainly an alternative that doesn't suit the traditional view of how a society best works which is a man meets a partner, nowadays that can be another man of course, has a steady job, buys or rents a home, has kids and is thus more likely to tow the line and be a good boy during his life, WGs challenge that view in the eyes of some.

[Mansell]

What's obvious from the replies on this thread is that if we who know far more about it than those in goverment (hopefully  ) can't even agree it's a good thing, then chances of it happening look pretty much zero.

[James999]

It's not really a question of agreeing about it, just logic, if you think the whole process through you will see that it would be pretty much impossible to work, for leases / tenancy agreements apart from anything else, unless of course the whole pro$$ie thing became socially acceptable and no longer considered Immoral, no political party will be interested in changing the law as it would be unpopular with voters and easy for the opposition to score points on, add to that the fact that pro$$ies won't want to become legitimate and the tax / NI / responsibilities that go with it, so in truth it's a non starter.

But it gives pro$$ies something to whinge about and use as a protest when they get nicked for running brothels 

[Mansell]

It's not really a question of agreeing about it, just logic, if you think the whole process through you will see that it would be pretty much impossible to work, for leases / tenancy agreements apart from anything else, unless of course the whole pro$$ie thing became socially acceptable and no longer considered Immoral, no political party will be interested in changing the law as it would be unpopular with voters and easy for the opposition to score points on, add to that the fact that pro$$ies won't want to become legitimate and the tax / NI / responsibilities that go with it, so in truth it's a non starter.

But it gives pro$$ies something to whinge about and use as a protest when they get nicked for running brothels 

Yes as the current law is your right. However if it was changed and no longer a criminal act then Landlords would be free (if they choose) to exclude that clause from their leases and rent out on that basis. So Logically as soon as the law is changed that opportunity presents itself. And before you tell me I don't know what I am talking about I am involved in renting commercial property, which under the current law no way would I  knowingly allow a WG to use. If the law changes I would have a different view with certain properties at a price premium of course   

[James999]

Yes as the current law is your right. However if it was changed and no longer a criminal act then Landlords would be free (if they choose) to exclude that clause from their leases and rent out on that basis. So Logically as soon as the law is changed that opportunity presents itself. And before you tell me I don't know what I am talking about I am involved in renting commercial property,

I doubt many pro$$ies would want to rent a commerical property and pay associate business rates, did you not see earlier my reference to Immoral, even if the brothel law was changed pro$titution would remain immoral, and the lease (as well as tenancy agreement) will have a reference forbidding the use for immoral purposes, you can't wind back time and get the head leases changed easily, and no mortgage lender or bank would allow it 

[Mansell]

I doubt many pro$$ies would want to rent a commerical property and pay associate business rates, did you not see earlier my reference to Immoral, even if the brothel law was changed pro$titution would remain immoral, and the lease (as well as tenancy agreement) will have a reference forbidding the use for immoral purposes, you can't wind back time and get the head leases changed easily, and no mortgage lender or bank would allow it 

Your getting yourself too wound up in lease law, if you own it, you do what you like within the law !!. Also wasn;t actually suggesting renting them a commercial property although a couple I can think of would be fine 

[nike]

Pro$$ies would not want to work in a legitimate brothel with tax and national insurance involved as well as other regulation fees, business rates insurance etc, not to mention the fact it would probably fuck up their benefits 

Hahaha , u make a great point James. I bet most wgs are claiming some sort of benifits.

[Marathon69man]

Many landlords would be happy to rent their properties to prostitutes if there were no legal problems -------- at a slight premium obviously.   

I do already in bolton great return and she keeps it immaculate ... OH thinks it's some execs from hitachi staying there ..... Paying in cash like.

Anyhow sorry to say benefits in kind as she and me are business people but it works.

[Marathon69man]

No

[roo222]

From the evidence I have seen, brothels work very well in the countries in which they are legal (Germany, New Zealand, Netherlands), and they do not replace independents in those countries.

[CatBBW]

A 'brothel' is somewhere that more than one lady works from. So I could rent a room there for one hour every week (with no one else in the premises), and Dani could rent the other room for one hour every week (with no one else in the premises) - that is a brothel.

I agree - legalise/decriminalise brothels.

[smiths]

A 'brothel' is somewhere that more than one lady works from. So I could rent a room there for one hour every week (with no one else in the premises), and Dani could rent the other room for one hour every week (with no one else in the premises) - that is a brothel.

I agree - legalise/decriminalise brothels.

Indeed, a point I have consistently made on here myself as many punters post its got to be 2 WGs or more. That's why brothels with a different WG each day but only 1 on the premises per day still makes it a brothel.

[James999]

Your getting yourself too wound up in lease law, if you own it, you do what you like within the law !!.

Not wound up in the slightest, couldn't give a fuck either way about legalising brothels, but it's evident from your comments that you do not know what you're talking about, your comments about "if you own it you own it" clearly show you have no understanding of how flats work 

[James999]

A 'brothel' is somewhere that more than one lady works from. So I could rent a room there for one hour every week (with no one else in the premises), and Dani could rent the other room for one hour every week (with no one else in the premises) - that is a brothel.

We know that, do you tell your Grandmother how to suck eggs?

[vw]

We know that, do you tell your Grandmother how to suck eggs?

Teach not tell.  James your upsetting everyone now Hot Vicky found this offensive !

Please enlighten me the only offensive thing is Jamie666 using the wrong words !  Easy to do though 

[shagbambi]

Every few months threads such as these pop up on the board.  They involve discussions on the decriminalisation of prostitution, brothels or the possibility of the Swedish model being applied within England, Wales or Scotland.  Unfortunately as punters posting on a punting thread we are not really pushing our "agenda" very well, after all UKP forum members are all singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak.

As a group we need to both protect our current sexual freedoms, as well as extend them.  I believe that punters supporting lawyers such as Myles Jackman, who is actively working on protecting our current sexual freedoms, as well as working towards the decriminalisation of prostitution in its various forms, is one of the better and more effective ways of doing this.  Myles's pro bono work in this relevant area of law can be supported anonymously via a crowdfunding platform.  I have included the link below,

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If enough of us on this board support this, then we can effect real change that is relevant to punters.

[James999]

working towards the decriminalisation of prostitution

Prostitution is not a criminal offence 

[shagbambi]

In the context of this thread, two girls working in a flat is a brothel.

[Mansell]

Not wound up in the slightest, couldn't give a fuck either way about legalising brothels, but it's evident from your comments that you do not know what you're talking about, your comments about "if you own it you own it" clearly show you have no understanding of how flats work 

I love it when someone says I don;t know what I'm talking about, to me that's an opportunity for making money and over the years I have done that often enough not to get worried by your comments. Your obviously convinced your right and I've no desire to pass on what I can see as an opportunity. Now all we need is 2 or more girls working together to be legalised and I'll be laughing all the way to the bank. 

[James999]

I love it when someone says I don;t know what I'm talking about,

Do you hear it a lot then?

As you clearly still dont grasp the legalities of leasehold residential property 

[James999]

We know that, do you tell your Grandmother how to suck eggs?

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