Sugar Babies
Massage

Author Topic: Hypersonics and defence economics  (Read 16870 times)

Most UKP'ers ignore it, other than for your boss
Picking up spellers is a sign of desperation

Wtf ? Says the guy who points out my spelling mistake 😂 you clown

Offline chrishornx

tell me do you bat for the other side? - You never denied it so just wondering

tell me do you bat for the other side? - You never denied it so just wondering

Keep wondering you sheep 😂

Offline chrishornx

Keep wondering you sheep 😂

Well if I was accused of being a fudge packer I wouldn't leave room for doubt. Each to their own

Well if I was accused of being a fudge packer I wouldn't leave room for doubt. Each to their own

Says the guy who throws his thongs at ukp members 🤣

Offline chrishornx

Says the guy who throws his thongs at ukp members 🤣

please stop following me around I am only interested in girls

 :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:

why?

bleeding obvious as he said:

 'You need to come clean: stop defending Putin's land grab.  Its nothing like anything else we've seen since Hitler.  Even the break up of Yugoslavia was somewhat different, and at least we did eventually bang heads together, and instigate some war crimes trials.

 denounce the Russian land grab.  Or justify it.'

can you justify it?
It's not a land grab. At least I'm sure it wasn't intended as such originally .
Putin has been telling the West his demands for years now.
Ukrainian neutrality and a resolution to the Donbas situation.
Surely these aren't outlandish demands for anyone seeking genuine peace and reconciliation?
The Crimea bird has already flown the nest.
Ukraine can bleat all it wants but it is of huge strategic importance to Russia and if Putin can't trust the West (which given the shenanigans with Biden and the 2014 coup is hardly a surprise) then he's not going to be giving it up anytime soon.
And before anyone bleats about that being an example of Putin's brutality it's hardly a hotbed of Ukrainian Nationalism.
The number of fatalities in that takeover was 3 I think.
On the subject of justification I'm still waiting for someone to justify the coup in 2014.
Or shipping billions of dollars worth of arms to a country with little to no follow up on where they are ending up.
Or imposing sanctions with the net result of stoking inflation and a possible recession in the Western world.
Not to mention hardship in Africa and elsewhere.
Rather than say... Let me think for a minute... negotiations.
Preferably in good faith of course


Offline Thephoenix

According to Agora the Russian human rights association at least 3000 people have been fined for publicly making negative comments about their armed forces since a new law was introduced.
Aren't we lucky living in UK?

According to Agora the Russian human rights association at least 3000 people have been fined for publicly making negative comments about their armed forces since a new law was introduced.
Aren't we lucky living in UK?
We are.
Very lucky.
There are also laws in quite a few of the NATO countries explicitly outlawing any suggestion that Russia was justified in it's actions in Ukraine.
I know this because a Czech lady informed me she has to use a VPN to get around any possible repercussion.
I'm sure you'll be enraged at this assault on free speech.
A German journalist on the ground in the Donbass was given a 3000 euro fine in absentia for the crime of journalism.
Let's hope that doesn't happen here.
Though the message I get sometimes is that some people would be quite happy if no one could interrupt their proWar circle jerk with an alternative viewpoint.

US citizen sentenced to 9 years in russian prison for weed.
As you see Putin is doing whatever he can to make fun of the west.  This country needs a bigger military force and presence, it is good to see some of the typhoons being upgraded it seems the top bosses are finally loosening the purse strings

Offline chrishornx

According to Agora the Russian human rights association at least 3000 people have been fined for publicly making negative comments about their armed forces since a new law was introduced.
Aren't we lucky living in UK?

western media propaganda Phoenix - surely you know that  :dash: :dash: :dash:

read the grey zone - get the truth

Offline Matrix

US citizen sentenced to 9 years in russian prison for weed.
As you see Putin is doing whatever he can to make fun of the west.  This country needs a bigger military force and presence, it is good to see some of the typhoons being upgraded it seems the top bosses are finally loosening the purse strings

How much weed? 

The amount would be relevant.

You can get up to 8 years here for such things, although highly unlikely.

US citizen sentenced to 9 years in russian prison for weed.
As you see Putin is doing whatever he can to make fun of the west.  This country needs a bigger military force and presence, it is good to see some of the typhoons being upgraded it seems the top bosses are finally loosening the purse strings
If you weren't clearly as dumb as a rock I would be asking if you were on the board of an arms manufacturer.
And it would be a bit hypocritical of the US or the UK to call out the Russians for enforcing a law bearing in mind the recent actions and pronouncements of Johnston and Biden on cannabis.
Lucky she wasn't caught in Saudi Arabia. Our ally. That bastion of freedom and democracy.

How much weed? 

The amount would be relevant.

You can get up to 8 years here for such things, although highly unlikely.
I can't find any article with the amount.
It was apparently cannabis oil in vape pens and she had been prescribed it for medicinal purposes.

western media propaganda Phoenix - surely you know that  :dash: :dash: :dash:

read the grey zone - get the truth
Grayzone.
I'm looking forward to you pointing out where their coverage has been false.

If you weren't clearly as dumb as a rock I would be asking if you were on the board of an arms manufacturer.
And it would be a bit hypocritical of the US or the UK to call out the Russians for enforcing a law bearing in mind the recent actions and pronouncements of Johnston and Biden on cannabis.
Lucky she wasn't caught in Saudi Arabia. Our ally. That bastion of freedom and democracy.

Agent 66, you need to calm down.  Aren't Russians supposed to be stoic

Offline Matrix

I can't find any article with the amount.
It was apparently cannabis oil in vape pens and she had been prescribed it for medicinal purposes.

Definitely draconian, disgraceful. Although it's a bit naive to fuck around with any type of drug in any foreign country, where it's illegal. Asking for trouble.

US citizen sentenced to 9 years in russian prison for weed.
As you see Putin is doing whatever he can to make fun of the west.  This country needs a bigger military force and presence, it is good to see some of the typhoons being upgraded it seems the top bosses are finally loosening the purse strings

Russia being a little englander. US will grab a few Ruskies / or use ones already locked up, and do an exchange. Though it might be dressed up so as not to appear as that.

Offline webpunter

In the spirit of international diplomacy we could offer up @teambatty as a swap
With their super knowledge of all things russian & the world stage they could be an asset to Russia
Well until Putin does some research & finds out what complete bell ends they are 
Then advises that they'll release her
As long as we promise NOT to send the three of em 

Offline chrishornx

Grayzone.
I'm looking forward to you pointing out where their coverage has been false.


what a dumb, pointless thing to say
 
why would I do that -- I have just said they talk the truth  :dash: :dash:

besides you know very well that to point out their coverage is false would mean producing some tangible links all of which you would immediately reject so a complete waste of effort
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 07:34:42 pm by chrishornx »

Offline Marmalade

A lot of the quagmire over ‘P.R.’ can be defused simply by putting the moral element aside temporarily. I don’t mean ignore completely: simply hit the pause button while the dynamics are analysed.

A lot of P.R. is necessary P.R. It has to be there to uphold a position. The position itself may be good or bad.

A great example is Israel. This is not to say that stealing the land from Arabs or killing and starving them in various ways is ‘good’ — that’s a question for the position statement, the policy. But what is special about Israel is the skill with which they drive their ambitions. Youngsters are schooled and streamed based on their intelligence, and the best recruited for high tech operations in the military. Israel is a very small country and surrounded by hostile countries. Every decision it makes is based on maintaining its survival. Including foreign relations. Totally clear cut.

This gives its P.R. machine, the most skilful in the world, an incredibly clear remit. No wastage. No woolly thinking. It has powerful lobbies, and technology that other countries want, for good or evil purposes. It gets the backing of the West yet offering almost nothing in return.

Compare that with the vision of U.S. or Russia. Both are inconsistent. Yet the former puts being a world policeman — a belief — almost higher than a “what’s good for America”. Russia is, apparently obsessed with the “Motherland” and, rather like China, feels it has rights over places that historically were part of the Soviet Union or the Russia of ages gone by. Just as China does with Taiwan and Argentina does with the Malvinas (which like Northern Ireland, another miscreant state, the U.K. feels obliged to protect with nothing in return.

Any of these positions are propped up by P.R. to justify them. Some positions may seem more good, but it begs the question of whose good (rather than who’s ideas).

Britain, another small country but much bigger than Israel, carries a similar nostalgia for its old Empire. Even if it tries to “put Britain first” it is enmeshed economically from years of such expansionist ideology. We don’t “approve” perhaps, of Israelis killing Palestinians or Saudis killing Yemenis, or the U.S. bombing, say, Iraq: but we are so indebted to these three countries than distancing ourselves would become suicidal.

Before jumping onto a right-wrong bandwagon, I can only suggest talking to ordinary people in Israel, who will simply tell you that they’re at war. Or people in South America that haven’t supported or opposed Ukraine who will look at you blankly and ask, what has it got to do with us?

The P.R. blame-game doesn’t reach them. Nor do they have the same necessities of a particular P.R. to justify their position (as no one particularly argues with it).

In the spirit of international diplomacy we could offer up @teambatty as a swap
With their super knowledge of all things russian & the world stage they could be an asset to Russia
Well until Putin does some research & finds out what complete bell ends they are 
Then advises that they'll release her
As long as we promise NOT to send the three of em
I bet you laugh at your own jokes.
Absolutely pathetic

Definitely draconian, disgraceful. Although it's a bit naive to fuck around with any type of drug in any foreign country, where it's illegal. Asking for trouble.
Especially in a country that your Government is trying to undermine.
U agree though that it's draconian.
I do feel sorry for her being used as a pawn.

Offline chrishornx

Especially in a country that your Government is trying to undermine.


so who is your Government?


what a dumb, pointless thing to say
 
why would I do that -- I have just said they talk the truth  :dash: :dash:

besides you know very well that to point out their coverage is false would mean producing some tangible links all of which you would immediately reject so a complete waste of effort

Ask it another way...."are you 100% confident that Greyzone is always accurate with their stories..." Follow up question would then be "....and how do YOU determine which ones you choose to believe as accurate and which ones you don't....".

Watch the inevitable swerving and wait for the skidmarks!

so who is your Government?
one beholden to big business and American influence.
Therefore complicit in this madness.

Ask it another way...."are you 100% confident that Greyzone is always accurate with their stories..." Follow up question would then be "....and how do YOU determine which ones you choose to believe as accurate and which ones you don't....".

Watch the inevitable swerving and wait for the skidmarks!
I obviously can't verify anything as 100% accurate.
But I'm certain they are more accurate than the shite they try to feed me on the mainstream.
The fact that the establishment and their mouthpieces won't debate them speaks volumes to me.
Instead as we've found out through hacked emails,  establishment lackeys like Paul Mason of the Guardian have been plotting with government officials to smear, deplatform and demonetise them .
That sounds fishy to me.

Offline chrishornx

one beholden to big business and American influence.
Therefore complicit in this madness.

classic swerve unable to even say who 'your' government is

classic swerve unable to even say who 'your' government is
Are you honestly this stupid? What am I swerving? I fail to see the relevance of your question.

Offline chrishornx

Are you honestly this stupid? What am I swerving? I fail to see the relevance of your question.

the stupidity lies with you I asked a simple question 'who is your government?" and you give a wishy washy answer avoiding a clear answer

classic swerve

I obviously can't verify anything as 100% accurate.
But I'm certain they are more accurate than the shite they try to feed me on the mainstream.
The fact that the establishment and their mouthpieces won't debate them speaks volumes to me.
Instead as we've found out through hacked emails,  establishment lackeys like Paul Mason of the Guardian have been plotting with government officials to smear, deplatform and demonetise them .
That sounds fishy to me.

No-I know you can't verify it as 100% accurate.

Would you consider Greyzone to be accurate 80% of the time? Maybe 50%? That's right-you cannot quantify it.

If it's not 100% accurate then how does your brain handle the reality that, for example, 20% of the time it is mainstream media who are reporting a particular story more accurately than Greyzone?

There is NO gold standard when it comes to news sources.

I am only banging this drum for you because you continue to belittle people who may cite mainstream media as their news sources. If I wasn't 100% confident about a certain topic and I couldn't verify just how accurate I thought I was then I would generally keep my mouth shut or just keep an open mind to the possibility that I might be wrong. Neither of which are qualities you seem to have displayed thus far.

Do you believe in "confirmation bias" ?

No-I know you can't verify it as 100% accurate.

Would you consider Greyzone to be accurate 80% of the time? Maybe 50%? That's right-you cannot quantify it.

If it's not 100% accurate then how does your brain handle the reality that, for example, 20% of the time it is mainstream media who are reporting a particular story more accurately than Greyzone?

There is NO gold standard when it comes to news sources.

I am only banging this drum for you because you continue to belittle people who may cite mainstream media as their news sources. If I wasn't 100% confident about a certain topic and I couldn't verify just how accurate I thought I was then I would generally keep my mouth shut or just keep an open mind to the possibility that I might be wrong. Neither of which are qualities you seem to have displayed thus far.

Do you believe in "confirmation bias" ?
You didn't seem to have any problems with the main stream media saying bullshit 20% of the time(for argument'S sake) while you were having your 10 or so page circle jerk at the start of this thread.
It was only when I deigned to rattle your cages with the help of a few others that you were forced to admit that the mainstream and politicians lie. Quite a lot as it happens.
I'm amazed that you say you would keep your mouth shut unless you were 100% confident.
So you're 100% confident of the garbage you spew?
Enough said.

But I'm certain they are more accurate than the shite they try to feed me on the mainstream.

Can you show links to articles that are not shite? Not authors, or websites, but links to specific articles.

Offline Marmalade

There is NO gold standard when it comes to news sources.
Correct.
Technically though, Wikileaks was a gold standard in the sense it was the only source to date never to have published a false story.
In short, this was probably down to the fact that it had the best tech analysis for spotting fakes.

This relates to auhenticity, not bias. I don't actually think it was biased, though exposures that upset America (videos of reporters being ginned down) or the democrats (Hillary Clinton files) make it easy to accuse it of "foreign sympathies". (Anti-Russian documents released by Wikileaks seem conveniently to be ignored.)
I don't think Assange had any personal sympathies other than a dedication to high standards of journalism, as evidenced by the multitude of awards and honours he received.
Snowden on the other hand, while equally dedicated to freedom of information, was a sworn patriot.

Can you show links to articles that are not shite? Not authors, or websites, but links to specific articles.
why should I spoonfeed you?
Do your own research.
And then use your own judgement.
Even if I accept the premise that no source is 100% accurate, my issue is the drip drip drip effect used to justify sanctions and the resulting inflation and very likely recession as a result.

why should I spoonfeed you?
Do your own research.
And then use your own judgement.
Even if I accept the premise that no source is 100% accurate, my issue is the drip drip drip effect used to justify sanctions and the resulting inflation and very likely recession as a result.

A swerve, as I expected. Your usual response.

You love to keep repeating that MSM is shite, yet cannot provide links to what you consider to be not shite. 

« Last Edit: August 05, 2022, 10:44:58 pm by Squire Haggard »

You didn't seem to have any problems with the main stream media saying bullshit 20% of the time(for argument'S sake) while you were having your 10 or so page circle jerk at the start of this thread.
It was only when I deigned to rattle your cages with the help of a few others that you were forced to admit that the mainstream and politicians lie. Quite a lot as it happens.
I'm amazed that you say you would keep your mouth shut unless you were 100% confident.
So you're 100% confident of the garbage you spew?
Enough said.

You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

I wasn't forced to admit anything. You would LOVE to believe you did though wouldn't you?

I said I would either keep my mouth shut or keep an open mind. For fuck's sake-you even judiciously edit the posts on here to provoke an argument.

Your position is being pulled apart when looked at more closely. It's quite fun to watch.

Greyzone is one of your recommended news sources but you admit it may not be 100% accurate but it's impossible for you to say which parts are and which parts aren't.

Do you believe in "confirmation bias" ?

why should I spoonfeed you?
Do your own research.
And then use your own judgement.
Even if I accept the premise that no source is 100% accurate, my issue is the drip drip drip effect used to justify sanctions and the resulting inflation and very likely recession as a result.
And my issue is the drip drip drip effect used to justify Russia's actions.  Like the constant references to a coup, without mentioning the rigged elections.

You seem very ready to denigrate the msm, but reticent to specify exactly where you are getting your alternative sources.  Perhaps because you know that if you did, people might point out the shortcomings in them.

And my issue is the drip drip drip effect used to justify Russia's actions.  Like the constant references to a coup, without mentioning the rigged elections.

You seem very ready to denigrate the msm, but reticent to specify exactly where you are getting your alternative sources.  Perhaps because you know that if you did, people might point out the shortcomings in them.

One of his alternative sources is Greyzone but he can't verify it's 100% accurate all the time. On those occasions he just uses his superior judgement  :wackogirl:


Offline webpunter

A bit like his superior punting skills
And reviewing 
A legend
Well in his own imagination  :rolleyes:

One of his alternative sources is Greyzone but he can't verify it's 100% accurate all the time. On those occasions he just uses his superior judgement  :wackogirl:

Offline webpunter

I did have a laarf at this post
Cage & rattled ?
I can understand why
99%++ of UKP'ers have come to the conclusion that you are a complete tosspot
I would suggest getting out more
However this means you have to meet people, not just on the keyboard
The same will become apparent to them, much more visible & much quicker
It unfortunately takes a while to come to the same view when just online
Please carry on posting on this thread
When i can be bothered to skim read its amusing reading how you are getting taken to the cleaners by a lengthening list of [sane] UKP'ers 
Any progress on punting ?, thought i would enquire & best of british 🤞

I bet you laugh at your own jokes.
Absolutely pathetic


I did have a laarf at this post
Cage & rattled ?
I can understand why
99%++ of UKP'ers have come to the conclusion that you are a complete tosspot
I would suggest getting out more
However this means you have to meet people, not just on the keyboard
The same will become apparent to them, much more visible & much quicker
It unfortunately takes a while to come to the same view when just online
Please carry on posting on this thread
When i can be bothered to skim read its amusing reading how you are getting taken to the cleaners by a lengthening list of [sane] UKP'ers 
Any progress on punting ?, thought i would enquire & best of british 🤞

Sorry to burst your bubble …. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

What do you have to to say about this ? 

What do you have to to say about this ?

Quote
Such violations in no way justify Russia’s indiscriminate attacks, which have killed and injured countless civilians
I agree.

I am Chinese
I don't think China will go to war with Europe. Europe is a potential ally for China. Because the main country that is against China is the United States.
Also, there are almost as many people in China who support Ukraine as there are who support Russia. Those who support Ukraine think Russia is an aggressor. Those who support Russia believe that if Russia is dragged down by NATO in Ukraine, then China will lose one of its major forces against the United States.

Offline Marmalade

Economic (partial) blockage
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/04/economy/china-military-drills-taiwan-global-trade-intl-hnk/index.html

So what exactly is the U.S. plan to "support" Taiwan? China has just surrounded Taiwan militarily, effectively reducing trade. The longstanding fudge has been upturned. I don't exactly see what America can do about it. Or how Taiwan or the West benefits (apart from more flag-waving).
https://www.ft.com/content/c6a1e2e3-d143-486c-b7bf-969d61657b09
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-china-watcher/2022/08/04/u-s-firms-eye-taiwan-exit-on-chinese-invasion-risk-00049694

A "massive airlift of weapons to Taiwan to build up war stocks before a full Chinese blockade" has been one suggestion. And I wonder how that would play out. Doesn't seem likely. And if it happened, how would large scale military conflict beween Taiwan and China make Taiwan better off than before Pelosi's visit? I'm all for independence for Taiwan. But the Pelosi visit has in some ways played into China's hand: China's leadership needs a foreign distraction to win support at home and seems to have got one. Meanwhile Biden's approval ratings at home are among the lowest in American history.

Offline Marmalade

I am Chinese
...
Also, there are almost as many people in China who support Ukraine as there are who support Russia.

I respect the fact that you are Chinese, but how do you know this? Do you think all the polls are wrong? (I don't mind if you do or do not)
I'm sure a lot of Chinese people are clever enough to access foreign news but I'm sure that educated Chinese people living here may have a different view to people living in China.

I haven't vpn'd to Chinese News lately but perhaps you can tell us more.

https://ceias.eu/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/CN-poll-report-final_may11.pdf
https://thediplomat.com/2022/05/chinese-views-of-the-us-and-russia-after-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/

But irrespective of Chinese people's views, I agree with you that China may think of better ways to gain advantage than going to war. So far, as I suggested in my previous post, things seem to be going China's way more than America's or Taiwan's. Would you agree?

Offline chrishornx

Sorry to burst your bubble …. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

What do you have to to say about this ?

complete propaganda website surely? or are you actually saying that is a credible source  that you accept ?

Offline chrishornx

I bet you laugh at your own jokes.
Absolutely pathetic

if you can't laugh at your own jokes it would be pointless telling them to others

I am Chinese
I don't think China will go to war with Europe. Europe is a potential ally for China. Because the main country that is against China is the United States.
Also, there are almost as many people in China who support Ukraine as there are who support Russia. Those who support Ukraine think Russia is an aggressor. Those who support Russia believe that if Russia is dragged down by NATO in Ukraine, then China will lose one of its major forces against the United States.

Welcome to the forum Thomas.

I agree that I don't think China will go to war with Europe but I was wrong about Putin and Ukraine so who knows?!

In this day and age war doesn't necessarily mean a "military war". Economic, cyber, hybrid and yes......information are all things which can and probably are weaponised.