27 brothels raided in N Ireland

[bbois77]

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Assisted by the southern Garda

[bonerman1969]

BBC News - Human trafficking: PSNI raid 27 brothels and arrest two people
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[Peken]

Punting is bad enough recently now this! That’ll be £500 an hour next month lol

[sim0256]

"& brothels raided and only two arrests, business must have been slow.

[20jay]

Bad time for punters... I've been avoiding NI for a while now for well-known reasons  . As @sim already said, arresting only 2 is a joke, the effort is disproportionate to the result.

[20jay]

Punting is bad enough recently now this! That’ll be £500 an hour next month lol

Don't think so, the business seems to be quiet...Btw Viva shows six pages with adds,I wonde how many would answer a call 

[Greg05]

First sweep I’d imagine.

Unless those two were running all those brothels.

[sim0256]

Jay it was difficult enough to get a call answered before this . Not much chance now !

[KeenPunter]

I don't see how this is a bad thing unless you enjoy raping trafficked/coerced victims who all the girls at these locations were it seems. Stick to those that are willingly in it for themselves

[Greg05]

I don't see how this is a bad thing unless you enjoy raping trafficked/coerced victims who all the girls at these locations were it seems. Stick to those that are willingly in it for themselves

I agree but how do you know though?

[Perv]

I would be keen to avoid these places. But i see more questions than answers on the news. I am curious to how punters find them as i had noticed an increase in brazillian and ts escorts on all the websites EI AW VS but they looked genuine many with lots of reviews going back time. I had previously searched for escorts in other parts of Northen Ireland and i got very little results. So i was supprised to here of brothels in all these places across the country. Are they underground? Is there a secret network to find these brothels? Or is it not as big as the news says? There is ofcourse some profiles on AW and VS but they either dont have phone numbers or uf they do they dont answer so i assumed they were scamming to try and get views in their private galleries or some sort of watsapp scam. There was a lot of raids and only 2 arrests sounds like the police are just trying to be seen doing something.

[Greg05]

Two working girls in the same property is a brothel.

[sim0256]

Perv, looking at the locations there seems to brothels in places in NI even I haven't been to!  Not that I would knowingly visit a brothel, like you I wonder what kind of network directs punters to these places?

[Roman77]

Didn't realise there were so many brothels in NI. Had noticed an increase in South American and Spanish/Euro girls visiting but assumed they were touring as advertised on EI. Anyone trafficking and exploiting women against their will deserves the punishment.

Wonder how long it will be before a massage parlour providing extras is raided or are they covered by councils by licensing a business and set up in rate paying buildings? As Greg said two girls working constitutes a brothel and most massage establishments have more than one girl working.

[Greg05]

Didn't realise there were so many brothels in NI. Had noticed an increase in South American and Spanish/Euro girls visiting but assumed they were touring as advertised on EI. Anyone trafficking and exploiting women against their will deserves the punishment.

Wonder how long it will be before a massage parlour providing extras is raided or are they covered by councils by licensing a business and set up in rate paying buildings? As Greg said two girls working constitutes a brothel and most massage establishments have more than one girl working.

Working but under the auspices of massage rather than sex

[Champ4]

Does a massage joint still constitute a brothel? Sorry I’m not 100% on the rule difference in N.I. I thought in England a massage joint with HE was allowed so long as full sex wasn’t offered?

Also like mentioned above I’d love to know where these brothels are. But if it can just be 2 girls working together then it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re trafficked I suppose.

[Lambeth19]

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64A—(1) A person (A) commits an offence if A obtains sexual services from a person (B)in exchange for payment—

(a)if the payment is made or promised by A; or

(b)if the payment is made or promised by a third party and A knows or believes that the payment is made or promised by a third party.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this Article is liable—

(a)on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(b)on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine, or both.

(3)  In paragraph (1), “ payment ” means any financial advantage to B, or any person other than B, including the discharge of an obligation to pay or the provision of goods or services (other than sexual services)gratuitously or at a discount.

(4) No offence is committed under this Article unless the sexual services that are provided or are to be provided by B to A involve—

(a)B being physically in A's presence,

(b)B touching A or A touching B, and

(c)the touching being sexual; or

(d)B touching B in a sexual manner for the sexual gratification of A, B being physically in A's presence.

(5) B does not commit an offence by doing anything which (apart from this paragraph) would amount to—

(a)aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an offence under this Article by A;

(b)conspiring with A to commit an offence under this Article; or

(c)an offence under Part 2 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 (encouraging or assisting offences) in relation to the commission of an offence under this Article by A.]

[20jay]

There remains a residual risk coz the laws can be interpreted by the cops. Of course, a good lawyer can turn everything around so that you can get out of the case more or less scot-free, but fact is, if the cops catch you, the girl is the poor exploited thing and you are the asshole 

[20jay]

Jay it was difficult enough to get a call answered before this . Not much chance now !

Agree, but I also think that the punters have lost their mood for the time being.

[senordingdongs]

Don't see how anyone can disagree with trafficked women who are being exploited being freed and given the support they need. However it clearly shows how the law seven years after being pushed through has failed, in fact judging by a recent QUB report it's just pushed the problem in NI further underground and made the trafficking and exploitation problem much worse.

Prostitution has existed for thousands of years and it wasn't going to stop just because Lord Morrow and the Assembly pushed through a law to make paying for it illegal. The sensible thing would have been to invite sex workers to the table and came to a sensible solution, instead they pushed through a law which 98% of them didn't want and that made them feel marginalised and unsafe.

I recently picked up a kitchen from a Howdens over in England which was beside a sex club, nobody protesting outside. It was midday and I'd a boat to catch that evening but a quick look at the website showed it was will advertised in local papers, owned and run by a consenting person, worked in by consenting local women and frequented by consenting men and some women who paid to get their horn dealt with in a safe environment. About time NI wised up.

[Bryan11]

First sweep I’d imagine.

Unless those two were running all those brothels.

Subsequent article on BBC have stated that A 63-year-old man and a 47-year-old woman have been charged with human trafficking, controlling prostitution, brothel keeping and money laundering.

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[Bryan11]

It really is difficult to know


we all know punting is illegal and that every time we do we run a massive risk
but hey, a hobby is still a hobby


Just shows the importance of having an untraceable  punting phone

[Greg05]

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(5) B does not commit an offence by doing anything which (apart from this paragraph) would amount to—

(a)aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an offence under this Article by A;

(b)conspiring with A to commit an offence under this Article; or

(c)an offence under Part 2 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 (encouraging or assisting offences) in relation to the commission of an offence under this Article by A.]

What does this part actually mean?

Get out of jail free card for sex workers or they are as guilty as punters?

[ardsman99]

Obviously people trafficking is abhorent and should be prevented and prosecuted when possible.

But in exact relation to this operation, most of us are probably concerned about ourselves as much as anything, especially moving forward.

What surprises me about raiding 27 places is that none of them had a punter in them at the time (reported about 9am) or least no punters arrested.

I imagine this type of thing is "good news" for the local girls.

[senordingdongs]

What does this part actually mean?

Get out of jail free card for sex workers or they are as guilty as punters?

There is no crime selling sex, if the escort is working independently and of her own free will, the criminal is the individual handing her the money. Of course the ‘ paying for my time’ thing you used to see goes some way to excusing it. You turn up and pay the lady to ‘fix her leak’, it the heat of the moment their is a connection and she suggest you have sex, is that a criminal offence? In the eyes of the law no.

It’s such a nonsense law which is why the authorities rightfully target the human trafficking and sexual exploitation aspect.

[Greg05]

There is no crime selling sex, if the escort is working independently and of her own free will, the criminal is the individual handing her the money. Of course the ‘ paying for my time’ thing you used to see goes some way to excusing it. You turn up and pay the lady to ‘fix her leak’, it the heat of the moment their is a connection and she suggest you have sex, is that a criminal offence? In the eyes of the law no.

It’s such a nonsense law which is why the authorities rightfully target the human trafficking and sexual exploitation aspect.

The crime appears to be paying for sex. But is the working girl aiding and abetting that crime for advertising the sale of sex? Is the legit masseuse you’ve went to who has offered a handjob aided and abetted too?

The first conviction was a loon pestering a girl at a service station which doesn’t fall into those categories.

If this legislation is under people trafficking legislation is the sale of sex from not trafficked ladies (not a brothel) somehow protected or ignored? I don’t know nor I doubt many would be up for legally challenging it.

[ardsman99]

You are spot on Greg, in the confusion of the law as it stands… or at least the prospect of prosecution at least.

Proving the transaction was for sexual activity would be tricky to prove unless the WG sells you down the river (which I imagine is extremely unlikely)

That is why I thought this will be good news for the local girls, much less likely they are trafficked. I don’t think independent girls, particularly local independent girls, would be high on the police agenda.

I am always more nervous when you turn up and it is clear there is another girl working there as that can be construed as a brothel, and that’s a little harder to talk your way out of

[ardsman99]

During the summer I went for a massage from a girl on EI and Viva… Aside from being the worst experience ever… as soon as I turned up I knew it was a brothel with at least 2 other girls working. The whole experience was shite (you can look up the review)… there was pretty much a queue when I left the room. Not very subtle and an experience I promised not to repeat. I didn’t have the balls to walk but next time I will in a similar situation.

[20jay]

It really is difficult to know


we all know punting is illegal and that every time we do we run a massive risk
but hey, a hobby is still a hobby


Just shows the importance of having an untraceable  punting phone

If the cops catch you with your pants down, you're screwed. I don't think they'll listen to your explanations, you go to the police station first, if you're single it sucks, but you only have the unpleasant chatter of the cops and need a lawyer to save your ass later.
If you are in a relationship then good night dude, that's it .. you will need several lawyers and say bye to your financial wealth
Last but not least, the tarts are the poor things and you are the asshole..pre-convicted before the judge even read the case.
Therefore, be carefull....

[YourLocalGP]

This post is really putting me off meeting anyone again in the near future.  All I can put confidence in is that this was more of a sting against Trafficking and that the police do not have time or resource to focus on the regular independents and just catch one or two of us.  Rather not be the 1 or 2 tho!!

[Greg05]

This post is really putting me off meeting anyone again in the near future.  All I can put confidence in is that this was more of a sting against Trafficking and that the police do not have time or resource to focus on the regular independents and just catch one or two of us.  Rather not be the 1 or 2 tho!!

Hard to disagree with that. Risk versus reward and with prices rising and quality lowering the reward is diminished. However I see Maya is back.

Massage joints perhaps a little safer but I’d rather they ask than I ask as per section 5 above. I’ve not prompted it, they have so perhaps as guilty as I am. Who knows. Also a small bit of cover re the legit massage end which is lessened in private home massage especially if they are nude at time of raid too.

[Roman77]

Do you think these latest raids will effect local independents or are the police solely targeting those involved in trafficked girls?
Most local escorts work alone so I wonder if they would be subject to a possible second sting sweep. Really makes me think if it's worth taking the chance at present of visiting anyone.

[senordingdongs]

This post is really putting me off meeting anyone again in the near future.  All I can put confidence in is that this was more of a sting against Trafficking and that the police do not have time or resource to focus on the regular independents and just catch one or two of us.  Rather not be the 1 or 2 tho!!

Put things in perspective, in the QUB report in said there have been 3 convictions and 27 arrests in 6 years under the law. All the convictions have been for human trafficking offences, brothel keeping and money laundering. Now it said there were 150+ sex workers advertising in NI every single day. So if the police really went in hard they could easily get hundreds of arrests a week but that's not were they are targeting. Speak to anyone that works for the police and they'll tell you that they aren't remotely interested in two consenting adults engaging in sex acts being closed doors, it's those exploiting others for financial gain that they want to snare.

There was a Panorama programme last years that followed a scumbag pimp bringing foreign women up from Dublin and putting them in brothels around Belfast, one off the Lisburn Rd. The guy had posted hundreds of ads on VS and they tracked him doing it dozens of times a month.Then coming in and out the same properties with bedding, cleaning products etc. Then they sat in a van and watched hundreds of men in one week coming in and out of the same house and even sent it an undercover reporter to ask for two women at the same time, thus confirming it was a brothel. They contacted the pimp who obviously denied everything and reported and sent all their evidence to the PSNI. That was over a year ago and despite the overwhelming evidence of what he was doing he has never been arrested or questioned.

When a report comes in about a suspected brothel the cops don't just jump in the van and rock up to smash the door down. It takes weeks if not months of intelligence and by that time it's usually gone. Theres also been several stories of a well known WG being reported by a neighbour, PSNI came out and told her they has no issues and were just making sure she was feeling safe from the nutter that reported her.

Then during Covid there was a brothel reported in Templemore Ave, but neighbours claimed it they were concerned about Covid rule breaking. The PSNI called at the door and asked if everyone in the house was ok and then left. It was two local WG so they carried on.

[Bryan11]

Put things in perspective, in the QUB report in said there have been 3 convictions and 27 arrests in 6 years under the law.

27 arrested? Do you know more details on why they were arrested?
Are at least a few of these punters?
Getting arrested would be more than enough to ruin your life, a conviction not needed for that

[Bigpaul2k]

still new girls advertising in Coleraine and Portrush so what ever happened has not effected anything there

[20jay]

still new girls advertising in Coleraine and Portrush so what ever happened has not effected anything there

Punter are uncertain ... that's the intention in my opinion 

[senordingdongs]

27 arrested? Do you know more details on why they were arrested?
Are at least a few of these punters?
Getting arrested would be more than enough to ruin your life, a conviction not needed for that

Here's the report, my opinion is that the law as it stands in Northern Ireland is an ass, it protects nobody.

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[scutty brown]

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Sex industry offences: Man and woman remanded on charges of brothel keeping, controlling prostitution and human trafficking
A man and a woman have been remanded in custody over charges related to brothels, human trafficking and money laundering.

Gerald Corrigan, 62, of Park View, Pomeroy, Co Tyrone and Mavie Martins Mariano, 47, of Rockview Crescent, Belleeks, Co Armagh appeared separately via videolink before Dungannon Magistrate's Court on Wednesday.

They have both been charged with human trafficking, controlling prostitution, brothel keeping and money laundering between March 2020 and November 2022.

Mariano was described in court as being the "driving force" behind operations in Northern Ireland.

District Judge Peter Magill rejected bail applications for both of the defendants and listed the case to be heard again on December 21.

The charges came after 27 brothels across Northern Ireland were raided on Monday as part of a multi-agency operation targeting sexual exploitation.

It has been described as the biggest operation against human trafficking the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) has carried out to date.

Corrigan appeared first in court, and indicated that he understood the charges.

A PSNI officer told the court she could connect the accused to the charges.

She described a proactive investigation into human trafficking for sexual exploitation, and that it has been established that vulnerable sex workers are being trafficked around Northern Ireland for the purpose of sexual exploitation by the accused.

She said a vast amount of money, more than £150,000, transferred between the two suspects, and described CCTV evidence and statements that Corrigan drove sex workers between brothels for money.

"Ms Mariano is involved in renting accommodation throughout Northern Ireland for sex work in return for money, Mr Corrigan then transports escorts," she told the court.

"Ms Mariano has admitted that she is in regular contact with escorts and arranges short term rentals for them for sex work and makes a gain from this by charging £50."

She added: "We would say there is a risk of further reoffending, we suspect that the parties are so involved that if they were released they would re engage immediately in their activity."

She also raised a fear of potential interference with witnesses, and a risk of flight around Ms Mariano who has family in Brazil.

"We believe this has been going on for years, this has not just happened in the last six months," she added.

Defence solicitor Brian Archer said his client has a clear record, has never been arrested before and co operated fully with police.

He said Corrigan has not benefited personally from the vast majority of the money.

"He has made admissions he offered a taxi service to these adult women, transferred them to different locations in Northern Ireland and requested a fee of them in the region of £40-£60 per time," he said.

Mr Archer described his client as being in poor health, with diabetes, high blood pressure and is recovering from cancer. He also said he had a very limited income.

District Judge Magill said Corrigan was not suitable for bail.

Mariano appeared later in the court sitting.

She replied yes when asked if she understood the charges.

The same police officer said she believed she could connect the accused to the charges.

Her defence solicitor Gary Black said Mariano had a young daughter living in Northern Ireland, and two adult daughters living in Brazil.

He said she answered all questions put to her by police and gave them access to her phone and devices.

He told the court Mariano had been a former sex worker herself, and would help the women involved with language.

"She has been living permanently in Northern Ireland since February 2018, she has been renting the same accommodation since March 2019, and she currently receiving universal credit but was also engaged in part time work as a cleaner," he said.

"She frankly stated to police that she has previously worked as a sex worker herself, she states that's not something she currently engaged in, but she states that the girls in question would be friends of hers that she has worked with previously."

He also told the court Mariano told police that sex workers come to her due to their difficulty with English, and ask her to make bookings, "effectively a travel agent or booking agent"..

"She accepted during the course of interviews that she would receive £50 for each booking made," he said.

"Whilst the sums involved are significant, any sums of money which were retained or otherwise by Miss Mariano were considerably negliable in terms of the overall scale."

He said she is concerned about the impact on her young daughter of her being in custody, and was willing to surrender her passport and abide by a curfew.

Judge Magill said there is a fear of further offences and interference with witnesses, as well as a fear of flight, and he refused bail.

Both are set to appear before court again on December 21.

[bongobongo101]

So a 50 year old ex-prostitute helping her old coworkers tour around Ireland and an older man driving them and their suitcases about. Doesn't seem quite as grim as Taken with Liam Neeson but who knows.

[Peken]

I’d say there was some grassing done. Sit low for a while for sure, it’s a bit risky now considering the amount of brothels raided they could be sitting waiting for punters now.

[V1ncent]

Not to be a tinfoil hat skeptic but it seems the government wants a piece of the lucrative pussy pie.

Especially with the laws the way they are.

If the girls are really being exploited against their will, then the court should proceed as they see fit.

But, is it just me or is £50 a booking not so bad considering the prices today? 

I’m not a maths wiz by any means - neither have I been to a brothel(to my knowledge.)

Food for thought.

[senordingdongs]

Not Northern Ireland but read on Twitter that a lot of WG in the Republic are saying that the welfare checks are done under the guise of  bookings and then the cop pulls out his ID and asks if they are being forced to do it, asking to check documents and if they have a pimp. Also a lot of reports they have arrested nearly 70 punters for paying for sex in the last few days, arrested entering premises by cops pretending to be WG and placing adverts on EI and other sites. The cops are renting out apartments known to be used by WG and then snaring punters when they arrive.

So the RoI seems to aiming for zero coitus

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[Peken]

That comment there is scary, you thinking you are making a booking and walking in horned to the throat and a welcoming committee waiting with handcuffs, not the kinky type either.

[Redpunter]

Stick to massage providers for the time being, if you were found naked on a massage table it would be very hard to prove you were there for anything else. Even though some may provide the extras that might scratch your itch.
Outside that the local home grown ladies are definitely not being people trafficked 🤔

[ardsman99]

Not Northern Ireland but read on Twitter that a lot of WG in the Republic are saying that the welfare checks are done under the guise of  bookings and then the cop pulls out his ID and asks if they are being forced to do it, asking to check documents and if they have a pimp. Also a lot of reports they have arrested nearly 70 punters for paying for sex in the last few days, arrested entering premises by cops pretending to be WG and placing adverts on EI and other sites. The cops are renting out apartments known to be used by WG and then snaring punters when they arrive.

So the RoI seems to aiming for zero coitus

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New boxers required

[Peken]

Redpunter I think you’re correct - a lovely legal massage it shall be for a while. If an itch needs scratching then myself and the masseuse can surely come to some arrangement. Maybe I’ve lost the edge or maybe just being cautious, can you imagine the court case if you got caught? Scary scary stuff. Belfast live & BelTel having a field day on your name.

[WildWilliam]

And if you think the peelers aren't snooping on here I'm sure you'd be mistaken... if they're posing as WGs in online traps then maybe they'll want to verify their ads with some fake reviews here too. Be careful if you're out there

[maxQ]

That comment there is scary, you thinking you are making a booking and walking in horned to the throat and a welcoming committee waiting with handcuffs, not the kinky type either.

AFAIK so far the only punter convicted in Ireland ended up in court because he admitted everything to the Guards when they stopped him outside the apartment AFTER the punt, if he said nothing they would have had zero evidence. tell them nothing

[Peken]

Wildwilliam that’s a very fair point, I’d say the police are on here monitoring the names and locations they are far from silly, it was straight forward enough for us to join and even some working girls so I’d say they are here as well.

[senordingdongs]

Wildwilliam that’s a very fair point, I’d say the police are on here monitoring the names and locations they are far from silly, it was straight forward enough for us to join and even some working girls so I’d say they are here as well.

They did a curb crawling sting in Belfast not so long ago and the first bloke they caught was a senior PSNI officer, he was then caught accessing escort website on the police computers. You would be naive to think they aren’t on here lurking but the threshold is so high unless they walk in and you are hanging out the back of a known WG then it won’t be met. It’s a murky world and even the most legitimate of massage and beauty businesses you will discover those linked to criminality if you dig deep enough.

But I’ve no doubt there is folks from the public protection unit are on here taking notes and joining dots. I mean anyone looking on VS can see the dozens of adverts that are clearly linked to the same person pulling the strings.