Men support groups (Mental health)

[sparkus]

I agree. But I think some of those guys standards are to high. It like they behave like typical fat positive female thinking they deserve 6 ft tall model who has 5% body fat and muscles. But they never do the work to get attraction of such people or settle with someone is not as attractive but decent enough in looks compared to those models. 

As for Oreo man having a pity party for views, I don't know. If he wanted more views and a audience, he would keep his first channel rather than deleting channels and making new ones every so often.

It's very comparable, agreed.

[Payyourwaymate]

I agree. But I think some of those guys standards are to high. It like they behave like typical fat positive female thinking they deserve 6 ft tall model who has 5% body fat and muscles. But they never do the work to get attraction of such people or settle with someone is not as attractive but decent enough in looks compared to those models. 

What about guys like this.

External Link/Members Only

Spent 10K on her didn't get shit  . Between the conversation exchange I could not tell who was the girl you know, both participants were so emotional. Had to watch it twice, it was almost like two girls were having an argument.

[mace-window]

What about guys like this.

External Link/Members Only

Spent 10K on her didn't get shit  . Between the conversation exchange I could not tell who was the girl you know, both participants were so emotional. Had to watch it twice, it was almost like two girls were having an argument.

  .

Why do guys think that spending tons of money on a chick will get them anywhere with them beyond sex?

P.S. Just notice that am saying this on a punting website ha. The irony.

[Kev40ish]

.

Why do guys think that spending tons of money on a chick will get them anywhere with them beyond sex?

P.S. Just notice that am saying this on a punting website ha. The irony.

I think the difference of saying it on a punting website is because a lot of us like the sexual but really don’t want the emotional shit that we either get from home or from a regular relationship..

[mace-window]

I see, thanks for that. You are right I watched the video and looked at other sources and you are 100% right. This oreo man guy though, he said if he was in jail he would tell the next man to fuck him and slit his throat. He also said he wants satan to bless him with a bad bitch and success Fucking hell LOL. His mental health was awful though how could he expect to make progress when he had no faith in himself. He refused any type of encouragement, he was doing this for 11 years. 11 years is a long time to hate yourself, I'm surprised he did not kill himself.

You know what I remember years ago I went on an incel forum out of curiosity and there was a guy who tried to approach 1000 women and he documented it. Failed everytime, did not get one number. His mental health throughout the thread deteriorated till he got banned. I can only wonder how many young men are like this now.

The thing is though, I think people in general have a sixth sense for telling people who are desperate; I think women can detect desperate men quite quickly, so when these men base everything about their existence on women and feel they have nothing if they can't get girls and become desperate it's easy to tell, you can see it in their behaviour and they get rejected. It then becomes a vicious cycle until the man eventually breaks or becomes entirely bitter. There is no place for these men to find support to get them out of such a perspective, they just join up with other like minded individuals and bemoan their situation which I do understand. The "dating market" for young men in the west outside of University and College is fucked lol both sides have too much expectations but young men have to run uphill to even get to the start point that women are at.

I'm not sure what the solution would be to be honest. I think it will just get worse. Perhaps stoicism may help these men.

Yeah the Oreo guy has issues and like the guy in the video I posted said, I doubt he will get out of his depression. That said, his rant about him selling his soul to the devil to have that good life/champagne life had me dying in laughter. I also did not know all the luxury stuff he would love in exchange for his soul was.

Anyways I agree that dating market in the west is over for most guys. Most girls have unrealistic standards for type of guy (top 10% of guys) they want that regular joe can't match. And the top 10% of guys they want won't likely won't want to settle down with them at all as they aren't the girl he want. Eventually when they reach their mid 30's they just settle down with beta orbiter friend (if they have any at this point) and divorce him once they have a kid or two. That why I don't blame guys deciding to avoid the whole relationship game altogether.

On the note of stoicism. Here is a quick wiki description on what it is.

Stoicism teaches the development of self-control and fortitude as a means of overcoming destructive emotions; the philosophy holds that becoming a clear and unbiased thinker allows one to understand the universal reason (logos). A primary aspect of Stoicism involves improving the individual's ethical and moral well-being: "Virtue consists in a will that is in agreement with Nature." This principle also applies to the realm of interpersonal relationships; "to be free from anger, envy, and jealousy," and to accept even slaves as "equals of other men, because all men alike are products of nature".

I would recommend reading Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (Roman Emperor from 161 to 180 AD) "Meditations". Great read for understanding the process of how to contemplate situations, ones self and dealing with life. Even though written 1000s of years ago is still relevant in dealing with personal emotions and well being in trials and tribulations.

I to have been reading a bit of Marcus Aurelus and Stoicism from time to time. That and I focus more on my goals and bettering myself. In the end it just a waste of time chasing women that don't want you. One reasons why am a punter. It lot easier to pay for WG than to be stood up on a date or wasting time chasing women rather than focusing on my goals and dreams. Of course we can't go see escorts as easy in today's climate but got more time on focusing on my goals I guess. Like I said before I wish incels could learn that being with a woman is not be all and end all of your life.

[mace-window]

I think the difference of saying it on a punting website is because a lot of us like the sexual but really don’t want the emotional shit that we either get from home or from a regular relationship..

Yeah you do have the point. That said I would imagine they are some incels types who are pissed that they spent £10K on a date wishing to only get some action and nothing else.

[Payyourwaymate]

Old article but an interesting read.

Has anyone seen examples of this occurring? What was the mans state of mind like after such an event, were they able to seek help?

Why Great Husbands Are Being Abandoned
Husbands are happy with more equality. Wives are still divorcing them.

External Link/Members Only

[Payyourwaymate]

Not sure if may be of any help to anyone. It is not UK based but may still provide insight.

Dealing with Financial Loss From Divorce

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Men’s Divorce Survival Guide

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This site seems to focus on dealing with divorce from a mans perspective. Not sure if they provide support from the mental side of things.

[Payyourwaymate]

Men dealing with divorce videos.

Men Dealing with Divorce - It Sucks

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Broken - Two men after divorce

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Reality of divorce as told by men who have gone through it | Unscripted

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Joe Rogan | Mens Rights Activists Have a Point About Divorces

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[Payyourwaymate]

Isolated Men | Men at the Margins | Age UK

Older men at the margins is a two-year study from the University of Bristol and Age UK into older men’s experiences of loneliness.

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only



Young Men are Becoming Isolated from Society | Subverse News

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[Payyourwaymate]

External Link/Members Only

Why Money didn't make me happy (as a millionaire)

Ignoring his shilling halfway through the video a lot of valid points made.

[mace-window]

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Why Money didn't make me happy (as a millionaire)

Ignoring his shilling halfway through the video a lot of valid points made.

Techlead. As someone who is about to go into the same field as him, I find him annoying. Though he does bring some valid points in this video and the other video were he talks about his wife who left him with his kid.

[Marmalade]

+1 on Aurelius. You could count me as an admirer. A few words though ...

It seems as if in lockdown we are living in individual bubbles, but in reality it’s not quite the case. It’s not as if we are living on a mountain top somewhere, contemplating our own existence in the tranquillity of the morning, Or like Aurelius on the battlefields or as last pagan emperor trying to hold the country together. But what we do have in common perhaps is a social force at the edge of our sense of tranquility that could disrupt it, alter the way we are viewed and the way it will respond.

Men are being downgraded socially.—and as someone said recently, it’s getting to the point where a man can be spat at just for opening a door for a woman or sidelined merely for being male, or a white, mainstream heterosexual male.

There was a rather interesting talk recently about being male that has stirred up controversy at Eton College which was advised by its lawyers not to allow it. The eminent teacher involved could lose his house and his job over refusing to withdraw it from the Internet. Yet it’s not inflammatory. It simply takes a hard look, with a lot of supporting reasons, why you should be proud to be male.

There are a couple of tiny mistakes in it, and I think he overstated the role of the family, but it’s well worth a listen.

Knowland on The Patriarchy Paradox:
External Link/Members Only

It’s kind of scary when feminazis can express their most poorly constructed nonsense and get an audience but straightforward masculinity is somehow expected to keep its head down.

(Knowland is pretty accessible, not heavy philosophical stuff; but if anyone is interested in the critical thinking that traces the roots of the woke movement, including all the anti-men stuff, it seems to be contained in post-modernism and the abuse of deconstructionism.)

[JamesKW]

This.

Every man over 50 should be offered an annual prostate exam at his GP surgery.


So Payyourwaymate, many thanks for starting this thread  .

I went to my GP a couple of years ago to get one and they wouldnt do a proper one just a blood test.Currently I would think there is little chance of even getting a blood test.

[winkywanky]

I went to my GP a couple of years ago to get one and they wouldnt do a proper one just a blood test.Currently I would think there is little chance of even getting a blood test.

I would complain to your local health authority.

The PSA test alone is not a definitive indicator. A PSA test and a finger test are much more useful in testing for cancer.

We need to start getting as demanding as women are, otherwise we'll get shit.

[Payyourwaymate]

Some topics I found on dealing with mortality.

Quick Wiki

External Link/Members Only

Mortality salience is the awareness by individuals that their death is inevitable.

The term derives from terror management theory, which proposes that mortality salience causes existential anxiety that may be buffered by an individual's cultural worldview and/or sense of self-esteem. Mortality salience engages the conflict that humans have to face both their instinct to avoid death completely, and their intellectual knowledge that avoiding death is ultimately futile. According to terror management theory, when human beings begin to contemplate their mortality and their vulnerability to death, feelings of terror emerge because of the simple fact that humans want to avoid their inevitable death Mortality salience comes into effect, because humans contribute all of their actions to either avoiding death or distracting themselves from the contemplation of it. Thus, terror management theory asserts that almost all human activity is driven by the fear of death.

[Payyourwaymate]

How to Deal With Death and Dying as You Age

External Link/Members Only

"Whether you are confronting the end of your own life or the loss of a loved one, death is a certainty of life that everyone will face. Even so, knowing that it's inevitable doesn't mean you'll feel prepared for dealing with death and the grief that follows.

A paradox of living is that healthy aging and increased longevity mean you'll have more experiences with death throughout your life.

As we age, so too do the people around us. Over time, many of the people that we know and care about will develop chronic or terminal illnesses. Some of them will die during our lifetimes....."

[Payyourwaymate]

5 Strategies for Accepting Your Mortality

1. Take care of mortality's paperwork

2. Use mindfulness to get comfortable with mortality

3. Discuss death at the dinner table

4. Consider your vision of a good death

5. Make a plan to go out in style

External Link/Members Only

Not sure how realistic this persons advice is but whatever  .

[Payyourwaymate]

External Link/Members Only

How to Become Less Afraid of Death

"Death, in the view of many theorists, is a good thing, at least for a society that aspires to be creative. When you’re on the clock, you accomplish more. Cultural anthropologist Ernest Becker, author of The Denial of Death, called mortality “a mainspring of human activity.” If you want to invent a light bulb or paint a Mona Lisa, you’d best get started, because checkout time is coming.

That’s perfectly fine when you’re contemplating the human species as a whole, but our personal mortality is a different matter, right? Not always. A 2017 study in Psychological Science tallied the number of positive and negative words in blog posts written by the terminally ill and compared them with essays by people who were asked to imagine being near death and then write about it. The dying people, it turned out, were more positive..."

[Payyourwaymate]

Alan Watts - The Truth About Death

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[Payyourwaymate]

Aldous Huxley - Matter, Mind, and the Question of Survival

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[Payyourwaymate]

Sadhguru How to deal with grief and loss of a loved one

External Link/Members Only

[Marmalade]

I'm not sure that it's necessary to keep posting in bold is it?

A lot of the psychology is about 'coping with' or 'becoming comfortable with' the idea of death – which is all very well, but there is another way...

It's about life, living each day as if it is possibly your last and being proud of your achievements that day, and in all your life, how they have contributed to your life's fulfilment and the contribution you have made to humanity (in even a small way). It's about feeling good about a task well done, the task being your life itself, and at the end being able to put the tools down for a well-deserved rest.

It has a further advantage. If you are not maximising the opportunities and tools at your disposal today, however great or however small, you have an incentive to do something about it. Every moment is a choice.

I don't think online advice, including this post, is much help really. Sometimes someone can talk you through it. But mostly it's about finding the inner desire, the inner choices. Not what someone else can say, do, or choose.

Friendships help, but in these times even friendships can become strained. Everyone dies 'alone' as a uniquely personal event. So getting used to being oneself, facing oneself, irrespective of others, like a last man alive on the planet brings self-knowledge and even a degree of peace. Most suffering comes from comparing oneself to others, making judgments comparing oneself to others, sentimental thoughts towards others. If you have to think about others, think altruistically –– it takes you out of yourself.

[winkywanky]

True words Mr. M.

I would simply add that a meaningful 'personal contribution' to the world can be something as little as sharing a smile and a good word with the random people you meet. Even if it's only the checkout girl (person) at Aldi.

[Payyourwaymate]

I'm not sure that it's necessary to keep posting in bold is it?

A lot of the psychology is about 'coping with' or 'becoming comfortable with' the idea of death – which is all very well, but there is another way...

It's about life, living each day as if it is possibly your last and being proud of your achievements that day, and in all your life, how they have contributed to your life's fulfilment and the contribution you have made to humanity (in even a small way). It's about feeling good about a task well done, the task being your life itself, and at the end being able to put the tools down for a well-deserved rest.

It has a further advantage. If you are not maximising the opportunities and tools at your disposal today, however great or however small, you have an incentive to do something about it. Every moment is a choice.

I don't think online advice, including this post, is much help really. Sometimes someone can talk you through it. But mostly it's about finding the inner desire, the inner choices. Not what someone else can say, do, or choose.

Friendships help, but in these times even friendships can become strained. Everyone dies 'alone' as a uniquely personal event. So getting used to being oneself, facing oneself, irrespective of others, like a last man alive on the planet brings self-knowledge and even a degree of peace. Most suffering comes from comparing oneself to others, making judgments comparing oneself to others, sentimental thoughts towards others. If you have to think about others, think altruistically –– it takes you out of yourself.

I only posted in bold to differentiate the text from what I've written in the past alongside external posts, so it just became a habit. I'll stop the font type if that's the case. The only reason why I post these topics is because I've seen that people don't really talk to each other about important topics in real life. People only skirt around things as it's too delicate so they talk about tripe and nonsense whilst suffering in silence. Even if posting online links to stuff may in the greater scheme of things seem useless, it may be of use to someone. Truth be told I really should probably be doing other things instead.  I do agree with your post though.

[Payyourwaymate]

Working conditions

Why I'm leaving Investment Banking

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How computer programming became the worst choice of career


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Work-life balance

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Looking after your mental health while working during coronavirus


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[mace-window]

Working conditions

Why I'm leaving Investment Banking

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How computer programming became the worst choice of career


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Work-life balance

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Looking after your mental health while working during coronavirus


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Reading the computer programming article and with me about to enter that field, I wonder were did that guy worked as this sounds like he works in bad company or start up. A regular guy who worked 6 years in coding should be getting 2-3 times of that amount he is getting now. And Programming in decline in 2021! Yeah right. Looks like to me the guy really don't enjoy coding regardless of the money and don't want a job that needs you to keep your skills up.

By the way, how is earning £55K is bad? That's a good amount and if you save up that money and make it work for you, you be earning more money in your pocket.

[Payyourwaymate]

Reading the computer programming article and with me about to enter that field, I wonder were did that guy worked as this sounds like he works in bad company or start up. A regular guy who worked 6 years in coding should be getting 2-3 times of that amount he is getting now. And Programming in decline in 2021! Yeah right. Looks like to me the guy really don't enjoy coding regardless of the money and don't want a job that needs you to keep your skills up.

By the way, how is earning £55K is bad? That's a good amount and if you save up that money and make it work for you, you be earning more money in your pocket.

I'm not too sure, I don't work in IT or the related fields of programming, software development etc. Funnily enough I was thinking to re-skill and go into cybersecurity as it was a niche industry and there was always a claim of shortages of staff. I researched and found there is not really a strong fair balance between the employee and employer as there is in other industries. Also, the "skills shortage" seemed to be a myth as with cybersecurity it was the senior positions in which there were shortages and the entry roles were jammed packed with applicants, the pay was not really different from what you could earn in finance either unless you really knew what you were doing. Unlike in finance where I have seen not so smart people make a decent wage lol.

Also, you constantly have to get certs and be up to date so it seems like a treadmill. I do not know if this is the same with software engineering although videos I have watched and forums I have lurked have mentioned similar issues in having to learn multiple programming languages, systems and to be proficient in them. There is also a high turnover/churning rate in the programming/IT industry, that I am aware of. As for the guy in the article, I don't know how he ended up in his situation.Lots of industries where there is remote working have outsourced where ever possible, IT is a big one. Why pay person X in the UK a decent wage when you can get someone of the same education standard and skill level in india or eastern europe to do it for less? I do not know if that industry has been affected like banking where they were forced to onshore a lot of structures due to the lockdowns in india. 

As for the wage packet, it is a great wage; however, for the skills he may have and the time he has put in, the pay may not be reflective of all their efforts or the job itself. That may be the fault of the man in question with the job. I can't say anything else there. An acquaintance I knew had a friend that worked in programming related role for deutsche bank and they were on £75K before they got made redundant. Only FAANG companies and big banks pay really well, as in close to six figures and upwards...plus this is in major cities like london and major cities in the US and europe. I think smaller companies is not as much. It is the pay of the big companies that skew everything, and the competition to work there is very intense. Since you are going into that industry I would just be aware of everything you see, hear and read and map out timeframes and contingencies for your plans. Life has an odd way of throwing things into disarray.

[lamboman]

Glad to see a thread like this as inadvertently mens mental health was the reason I started punting as 2 years ago 2 of my friends committed suicide and I decided I didn't want to regret not doing certain things in my life(I was very inexperienced with women).
One friend was a very famous singer who to be fair had a pretty hedonistic lifestyle the second just a normal guy with seemingly an ideal life who just got up one day and killed himself,no sign of it happening at all and he left no note.
His funeral was just the saddest day if he'd had known the sorrow he caused he would never have done it.
Nobody ever knows what goes on in peoples heads and unfortunately men are terrible about talking about mental problems.
Staggering that the biggest killer of men under 45 is suicide,there's plenty of help but more needs to be done to get men to use it.

[The_Don]

Physical health issues, may be more visible for some and mental health affects 1 in 4 people.
 
Its not as easy to spot and offer help or get help.

During lock-down more and more people have become isolated, making it even harder.   

The mind can be a wondrous and dangerous place:



Hidden Image/Members Only

[Squire Haggard]

I'm surprised at the number of known male suicide cases posted above. I thought that the suicide rate is higher among men than women, but I'm surprised by how much. Its 3 times as much.

''In 2019, there were 5,691 suicides registered in England and Wales, an age-standardised rate of 11.0 deaths per 100,000 population and consistent with the rate in 2018.

Around three-quarters of registered deaths in 2019 were among men (4,303 deaths), which follows a consistent trend back to the mid-1990s.

The England and Wales male suicide rate of 16.9 deaths per 100,000 is the highest since 2000 and remains in line with the rate in 2018; for females, the rate was 5.3 deaths per 100,000, consistent with 2018 and the highest since 2004.''

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[winkywanky]

Yes, we'll keep hearing from women about how they're fed up with their periods being taboo and all their other girly 'problems', but as ever this issue will continue to be largely ignored.

Those who make the biggest noise get all the attention as we saw all last year, it's always been that way and it always will.

[Squire Haggard]

I wondered if the higher male rate coincided with the recent moaning and empowerment of women, but its been the case for a long time.   Scroll down to see the historic chart, or download the PDF.

''Rates in males were consistently higher than females throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, although the male-to-female sex ratio fluctuated from 4 : 1 in the 1880s to 1.5 : 1 in the 1960s.''

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North of the border....
'Scotland has disproportionately high rates of suicide compared with England.'

Charts
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Article
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[Squire Haggard]

Yes, we'll keep hearing from women about how they're fed up with their periods being taboo and all their other girly 'problems', but as ever this issue will continue to be largely ignored.

Those who make the biggest noise get all the attention as we saw all last year, it's always been that way and it always will.

Maybe males are more expendable and always have been...... 
Hidden Image/Members Only

[CrocodileShoes]

Suicide is currently the biggest cause of death in men aged from 18-50. Its far higher than heart disease, smoking related deaths and cancer. Sadly during lockdown suicide rates are rising rapidly. Men are locked in with abusers or trapped with their own problems with little in the way of anyone to talk to. Having been through this myself and having multiple suicide attempts I am now much better and also on my way to becoming a qualified counsellor. I am not ashamed to admit that I hit rock bottom, was really ill and tried to take my own life on multiple occasions. There really is no secret to getting better other than talk about it to someone and get professional help and take medication for a while. Even though I am still fairly new to this site and haven’t gotten round to actually punting and writing a review, if any of you ever feel down or very low please send me a message. I would hate to think of anyone feeling like they have to go through dark times alone

[winkywanky]

Suicide is currently the biggest cause of death in men aged from 18-50. Its far higher than heart disease, smoking related deaths and cancer. Sadly during lockdown suicide rates are rising rapidly. Men are locked in with abusers or trapped with their own problems with little in the way of anyone to talk to. Having been through this myself and having multiple suicide attempts I am now much better and also on my way to becoming a qualified counsellor. I am not ashamed to admit that I hit rock bottom, was really ill and tried to take my own life on multiple occasions. There really is no secret to getting better other than talk about it to someone and get professional help and take medication for a while. Even though I am still fairly new to this site and haven’t gotten round to actually punting and writing a review, if any of you ever feel down or very low please send me a message. I would hate to think of anyone feeling like they have to go through dark times alone

Thanks for sharing that CS  .

I'm glad to hear you've come out the other side, even to the extent of becoming a counsellor  . Not for me to say, but perhaps that goal actually contributed to your recovery?

In any case, all best wishes to you for your intended career  .

We all know men can be their worst enemies (and we see that on here every day  ), we tend not to talk about important stuff but in actual fact I think some guys will talk here but not elsewhere? It's anonymous and we're (virtually) all men.

I can't help thinking though, that the constant barrage (and barrage is what it is) of rampant feminism is akin to being kicked in the balls over and over again. A perfect example is all the noise we had last year, it went on for weeks, over VAT being removed from women's sanitary products. I worked it out, for the average woman that saved them a grand total of around £40 a year. Hurrah! I get the principle of it, but FFS, it was just another example of women are more valuable than men.

[lillythesavage]

Suicide is currently the biggest cause of death in men aged from 18-50. Its far higher than heart disease, smoking related deaths and cancer. Sadly during lockdown suicide rates are rising rapidly. Men are locked in with abusers or trapped with their own problems with little in the way of anyone to talk to. Having been through this myself and having multiple suicide attempts I am now much better and also on my way to becoming a qualified counsellor. I am not ashamed to admit that I hit rock bottom, was really ill and tried to take my own life on multiple occasions. There really is no secret to getting better other than talk about it to someone and get professional help and take medication for a while. Even though I am still fairly new to this site and haven’t gotten round to actually punting and writing a review, if any of you ever feel down or very low please send me a message. I would hate to think of anyone feeling like they have to go through dark times alone

Wow, All I can say is all the best, going from the depths of despair to wanting to help others is a very brave step, putting yourself amongst other peoples problems must be a profound reminder of your past problems every day, I have been there and considered the step you are taking but I honestly do not think I could do it.

My depression stems from an abusive Mother, Xmas is always when it hits hardest and this year was no different, I am back under the mental health team yet again, despite the workload they must have in this pandemic and not being able to do face to face I cannot praise them enough, the help I have received over the last few weeks means I returned to work this week, which of course helps but getting to that point I could not do on my own. My post count should go down now lol, typing shite has helped funnily enough and got me to the point of telling and talking to others. So all you invisible people talking shite and making funny comments can take peoples minds away from despair.

For about 12 years I was lucky, I could afford to fuck off to Thailand, Australia, New Zealand and a few other places in the sun for5, 6 or 7 weeks at Xmas and it got me through, luckily an understanding employer kept my job for me, it only masked things but like I said got me through.

Typing this has engaged my brain, an older friend , his wife died a couple of years ago, has asked me several times to return to Goa with him, he always went over Xmas, Virus permitting that is going to be the target for this year, get the money and fuck off again next Xmas and hopefully leave the Mental Health team in peace.

Thank you for putting your story in print, this might be a perverts paradise but as @ willywanky said, probably one of the only forums populated by mostly men and lets be honest men are not the best at talking through problems. 

Onwards and upwards and happy punting.

[CrocodileShoes]

Thank you for the kind words guys. It means a lot. While becoming a counsellor seems as though it might contribute towards my recovery it was actually something I have always been able to do to an extent. Dealing with other peoples problems was a way for me to escape mine and I become ok at it. It was actually my counsellor that suggested I should become one. I have been through things I will never truly recover from such as serious abuse from a female family member so I do understand what that can be like and in the impact it can have. It meant I spent a huge chunk of my life never feeling like a man but then this is subjective, how should a man feel. Getting better for me wasn’t about recovering it was about accepting. Accepting that I could not change what happened to me, accepted that the conditions it has left me with are not curable but I can learn to live with them. Men’s mental health is nothing new but how we recognise it is what needs to change. I remember watching my Grandad suffer mentally when I was a kid. A result from fighting in wars and witnessing horrors and killing. Years ago it used to be called shell shock and was treated as a kind of madness. Today it’s recognised as PTSD and treatment is very different. I think one thing that stops us talking about how we feel it how we judge each other as men through societies expectations. I feel that men are judged on physical and sexual prowess but if you don’t comfortably fit into those categories (which I think most of us don’t) then we are made to feel as though we are substandard men.

NHS mental health services are also a failure. They are underfunded and do not offer the treatments that we require. Going private gets the best results but sadly most of us cannot afford this so what options are we left with.

The interesting thing I find about this forum is that we are all here seeking the same thing but we all have different reasons for seeking it. Pleasure is a basic psychological need which must be met.

I won’t keep on about all of this but I will finish on a positive. As grim reading as the statistics are for men’s mental health things are slowly improving for us and awareness is increasing. It’s no longer the dark secret it once was.

[mace-window]

Also, you constantly have to get certs and be up to date so it seems like a treadmill. I do not know if this is the same with software engineering although videos I have watched and forums I have lurked have mentioned similar issues in having to learn multiple programming languages, systems and to be proficient in them. There is also a high turnover/churning rate in the programming/IT industry, that I am aware of. As for the guy in the article, I don't know how he ended up in his situation.Lots of industries where there is remote working have outsourced where ever possible, IT is a big one. Why pay person X in the UK a decent wage when you can get someone of the same education standard and skill level in india or eastern europe to do it for less? I do not know if that industry has been affected like banking where they were forced to onshore a lot of structures due to the lockdowns in india. 

As for the wage packet, it is a great wage; however, for the skills he may have and the time he has put in, the pay may not be reflective of all their efforts or the job itself. That may be the fault of the man in question with the job. I can't say anything else there. An acquaintance I knew had a friend that worked in programming related role for deutsche bank and they were on £75K before they got made redundant. Only FAANG companies and big banks pay really well, as in close to six figures and upwards...plus this is in major cities like london and major cities in the US and europe. I think smaller companies is not as much. It is the pay of the big companies that skew everything, and the competition to work there is very intense. Since you are going into that industry I would just be aware of everything you see, hear and read and map out timeframes and contingencies for your plans. Life has an odd way of throwing things into disarray.

First point. Yeah in Computer programming you will need to learn multiple languages. Though companies and languages rarely change that much as most companies aren't to tech savvy to update to new language or want to spend money on new system with new language. Like Javascript, HTML, CSS, MQL, C#, and C++ have been most popular languages for a while and unlikely won't be in the near future. Of course people have hyped certain languages every now and then like Ruby on rails but rarely these hyped Languages live up to the hype. End of the day it quality over quantity over languages to be a good programmer. As for high turn over rate, I am not to sure on that. Maybe a blind spot on my behalf but from videos and talking with other programmers that does not seem to be a case. Will say they is a certain number of programmers who become freelance programmers and travel around the world as they work (my goal as work). So that could be a reason for a high turnover rate.

Will say out source a person outside a country is a problem then again they is problem if that person in India is able to write that code. In UK it is easy to find out if a person is right person for the job as in India that may be hard to know. That and some companies only decide to out source the work to India for example as they can get away with bullshit like giving that guy tons of work with little pay and he will accept that work as he/she is desperate as someone who work in UK will not accept such bullshit and move to another job as he knows his/she right.

As for the guy in the article, looks like he is working in a bad startup/company. Startups are known to over promise stuff claim to be the next "facebook" . But when a startup fails, it will leave you high and dry with little to show for it. Making it harder to find another job.

Anyways that is my 2 cents. By the way, thanks for head up Payyourwaymate. You don't need to tell me about how Life has an odd way of throwing things into disarray as I have experienced that already in my life. Though I am aware of pit falls of programming and made a plan to reach my goal.

[Doc Holliday]

This has been an excellent thread thanks to all the contributors. For personal reasons I have avoided any contribution.

However in relation to this

I'm surprised at the number of known male suicide cases posted above. I thought that the suicide rate is higher among men than women, but I'm surprised by how much. Its 3 times as much.

The number of 'attempted' suicides is around three time higher in women though. Women are thought to have more suicidal thoughts than men. However the brutal truth is if a man decides to commit suicide he makes a better job of it. The difference is largely accounted for by the method of suicide with women favouring (less reliable) overdose and men more violent methods.

[Squire Haggard]

This has been an excellent thread thanks to all the contributors. For personal reasons I have avoided any contribution.

However in relation to this

The number of 'attempted' suicides is around three time higher in women though. Women are thought to have more suicidal thoughts than men. However the brutal truth is if a man decides to commit suicide he makes a better job of it. The difference is largely accounted for by the method of suicide with women favouring (less reliable) overdose and men more violent methods.

I'm surprised that the difference between the two is so stark. Out of curiosity I'll look into the stats later. I'm going to have a walk in the sunshine in what might be a 10 minute weather window. 

[lamboman]

This has been an excellent thread thanks to all the contributors. For personal reasons I have avoided any contribution.

However in relation to this

The number of 'attempted' suicides is around three time higher in women though. Women are thought to have more suicidal thoughts than men. However the brutal truth is if a man decides to commit suicide he makes a better job of it. The difference is largely accounted for by the method of suicide with women favouring (less reliable) overdose and men more violent methods.

How do you define an attempted suicide though? By definition it didn't work probably on purpose.

[sparkus]

How do you define an attempted suicide though? By definition it didn't work probably on purpose.

As he says, overdose is less reliable ie. you can be found and resuscitated.

I suppose they don't think about it at the time but basically a suicide equals a body someone (possibly nearest and dearest) is going to have to find and live with the memory of for years to come.

[cotton]

As he says, overdose is less reliable ie. you can be found and resuscitated.

I suppose they don't think about it at the time but basically a suicide equals a body someone (possibly nearest and dearest) is going to have to find and live with the memory of for years to come.

I know a girl who found her boyfreind hung himself and that haunts her.  Theres a facial abuse video with a girl called cat morris and she talks about finding her mum having commited suicide by cutting her wrists , thats pretty real and a good video.

[sparkus]

I know a girl who found her boyfreind hung himself and that haunts her.  Theres a facial abuse video with a girl called cat morris and she talks about finding her mum having commited suicide by cutting her wrists , thats pretty real and a good video.

It's why I don't own a dog, it's always dog walkers who find dead bodies.

[lillythesavage]

As he says, overdose is less reliable ie. you can be found and resuscitated.

I suppose they don't think about it at the time but basically a suicide equals a body someone (possibly nearest and dearest) is going to have to find and live with the memory of for years to come.

At my worst I believe that thought was the only thing that stopped me, putting someone through finding me, I guess those that do were in a far darker place than me but finding a friend hanging and him making sure he was not found alive some 17 or 18 years ago def helped put that thought in my mind.

He knew we would go to his workshop once the wife said he was missing, a big high warehouse, with sliding doors. He had rigged a set up where opening the doors snatched on his neck and pulled him higher. We will never know if he could have been saved or opening the door sealed his fate.

Left a beautiful wife and 2 great kids, no money worries, sure he liked a drink and was often in the pub with us, but so was the wife and they got on great and she was just like one of the group.
The only thing we could put it down to was his only employee, who got him smoking that evil skunk while at work, I think it was new and cheap at the time. The Geordie employee has never been seen since.

I have to disagree with comments about NHS mental health teams, I have either been very lucky or have a high risk flag on the system, because every time I have needed them they have been very good.
The first time I was given Talking therapy one to one I did not go until they said if I missed the third appointment they could not help, I went to the third, leaving me with 9 more. After the first it was extended to 24, but I ended up going every week for just over 2 years.

When my doctor referred me back in the middle of January, even during this pandemic the service and help has been excellent even though there is no face to face and I am already back on talking therapy, back to work, weather permitting.
Joining here got me out for a drive and a punt and got me back searching for sex meets on other sites which honestly has helped too. It is one thing you can do on your own, occupies the brain as well as other parts lol and a few meets has given me a lift in mood.

The worst thing you can do is not talk and seek help but that is what you do, pretend you are fine when you are not to others who are concerned, avoid people if you can and always say to yourself tomorrow will be different. It never is, it just gets worse until, if you are lucky, someone close takes control of the situation. Do not use the current situation as an excuse, I did, but the risk of Covid and taking a few risks is far less important than your own Mental Health, life is still going on, try and be part of it.

If you do not have that person it can lead to much worse, if you don,t and feel this way just try telling someone, I had to in the end, had run out of lies and excuses, stopped answering the phone.
We never do it but the relief when you do makes all the difference. to anyone in a similar situation all I can say is try to tell someone, a good friend, the Doctor, call the crisis line, it will kickstart your life again. Nobody can help if you do not help yourself, easy to say or type I know, but you will feel like help is there.
Never be ashamed, it is an illness like any other, and help and treatment is available, please try and seek it.

I hope this rambling makes sense and if one person reads it and acts then it has been worthwhile.

[Squire Haggard]

It's why I don't own a dog, it's always dog walkers who find dead bodies.

I knew one who did a long time ago. They grilled him as though he could have been guilty, when he reported it. The girl was an SP from the days of street girls. The cops put out the message that they would be knocking on the doors of car drivers from the red light district, and asked them to come forward instead. I did so. It turned out that it was the girl's boyfriend or ex boyfriend who killed her.

[lillythesavage]

It's why I don't own a dog, it's always dog walkers who find dead bodies.

I got one because my therapist talked me into it to get me out of the house, he was 10 in January, has not found any bodies yet and as I live alone and work alone I would recommend to anyone in the same situation.
Most times he does just that and gets me out of the house, Xmas was a struggle and he got neglected a little, giving him to the wife a few times was probably good for him but made her realize I was not coping again and she made me seek help. So again helped the situation.
Maybe it is time to change my situation and stop being a loner only talking to a dog and faceless people on forums, even typing that is scary.

[lamboman]

Surely the most bizarre reason for not owning a dog?
I must have known hundreds of people including myself that have owned dogs for years.
Not one has come across a corpse.

[sparkus]

At my worst I believe that thought was the only thing that stopped me, putting someone through finding me, I guess those that do were in a far darker place than me but finding a friend hanging and him making sure he was not found alive some 17 or 18 years ago def helped put that thought in my mind.

He knew we would go to his workshop once the wife said he was missing, a big high warehouse, with sliding doors. He had rigged a set up where opening the doors snatched on his neck and pulled him higher. We will never know if he could have been saved or opening the door sealed his fate.

Left a beautiful wife and 2 great kids, no money worries, sure he liked a drink and was often in the pub with us, but so was the wife and they got on great and she was just like one of the group.
The only thing we could put it down to was his only employee, who got him smoking that evil skunk while at work, I think it was new and cheap at the time. The Geordie employee has never been seen since.

I have to disagree with comments about NHS mental health teams, I have either been very lucky or have a high risk flag on the system, because every time I have needed them they have been very good.
The first time I was given Talking therapy one to one I did not go until they said if I missed the third appointment they could not help, I went to the third, leaving me with 9 more. After the first it was extended to 24, but I ended up going every week for just over 2 years.

When my doctor referred me back in the middle of January, even during this pandemic the service and help has been excellent even though there is no face to face and I am already back on talking therapy, back to work, weather permitting.
Joining here got me out for a drive and a punt and got me back searching for sex meets on other sites which honestly has helped too. It is one thing you can do on your own, occupies the brain as well as other parts lol and a few meets has given me a lift in mood.

The worst thing you can do is not talk and seek help but that is what you do, pretend you are fine when you are not to others who are concerned, avoid people if you can and always say to yourself tomorrow will be different. It never is, it just gets worse until, if you are lucky, someone close takes control of the situation. Do not use the current situation as an excuse, I did, but the risk of Covid and taking a few risks is far less important than your own Mental Health, life is still going on, try and be part of it.

If you do not have that person it can lead to much worse, if you don,t and feel this way just try telling someone, I had to in the end, had run out of lies and excuses, stopped answering the phone.
We never do it but the relief when you do makes all the difference. to anyone in a similar situation all I can say is try to tell someone, a good friend, the Doctor, call the crisis line, it will kickstart your life again. Nobody can help if you do not help yourself, easy to say or type I know, but you will feel like help is there.
Never be ashamed, it is an illness like any other, and help and treatment is available, please try and seek it.

I hope this rambling makes sense and if one person reads it and acts then it has been worthwhile.

I wouldn't be so hard on yourself, despite the outward appearance you don't know what private demons he was wrestling with.

I've not experienced it myself but a fairly close relative who was terminally ill managed to end their life and I saw the impact it had on those who found them.

A number of people over the years have told me they're committing slo-mo suicides through alcohol intake as well.