An uncomfortable feeling - was the WG coerced or trafficked ?

[Oggytoo]

Nope, not catching something. 

I had an awful punt recently and I have a nagging doubt that the lady didn’t want to be there.  As in she was being coerced.  I’m really interested to hear how you guys would deal with this? 

I regret going through with the deed to be honest.  For full disclosure I’m happy to share what I did do/have done, but would love to hear from the wise heads out there what they would do first. 

[lamboman]

If you say who it was others may corroborate your thoughts or not.

[bristolnick]

I had one like that once, i could something was off when we were in the room and suddenly she couldn't speak English. Lucky it was only £60. Let her have the money and left. Didn't want the police storming in or getting my head stamped by a Sergi.

[myothernameis]

I had an awful punt recently and I have a nagging doubt that the lady didn’t want to be there.

Has this female, been reviewed on here, and if so what the reviews positive or negative.   A positive review might just indicate, that your booking
 she was just having a really bad day

[Oggytoo]

Thanks guys.  I don’t think she has been reviewed on here and it’s the wrath of Sergei (or another appropriate name for a different race) that worries me.  I’ll. call him HoChi Sergei. 

I’ve been to that flat before and it’s clearly touring girls, there for a week or so and then moved on.  I’m fine with that if they are. 

[scutty brown]

Nope, not catching something. 

I had an awful punt recently and I have a nagging doubt that the lady didn’t want to be there.  As in she was being coerced.  I’m really interested to hear how you guys would deal with this? 

I regret going through with the deed to be honest.  For full disclosure I’m happy to share what I did do/have done, but would love to hear from the wise heads out there what they would do first.

Call the police
Explain your worries
Give the address, phone number, profile details
Tell them what you saw

If it's a Chinese rotation joint there's a high probability of trafficking
FWIW probably best not to name them here - you don't want to warn them and safer for you

[southcoastpunter]

Op - i have changed the heading a little to add more clarity of what the thread is about - and as its a general question and not (at this stage) region specific, have moved it to the general/national board for wider conversation/comment!

[JontyR]

I'm sure I'm not alone when reading something like this that I think back to see if there are any tell tale signs that someone is or isn't trafficked. Most times the girl is messing with her phone before the services commence and so I am fairly confident that they could access help should they wish too. Am I being naive?

[lamboman]

question and not (at this stage) region specific,

How is it not region specific when it was posted in the SW board?

[scutty brown]

I'm sure I'm not alone when reading something like this that I think back to see if there are any tell tale signs that someone is or isn't trafficked. Most times the girl is messing with her phone before the services commence and so I am fairly confident that they could access help should they wish too. Am I being naive?

Yes you are naive
Phone may have no credit on it, or may be locked to only receive - not send
She may not know what town she's in, trying to explain her location would be impossible
And a lot have little or  no English

[daviemac]

How is it not region specific when it was posted in the SW board?

The issue of trafficked or coerced escorts is not restricted to the SW region, it happens all over the country and the advice given on this thread applies equally no matter where it's occurring. 

[myothernameis]

Thanks guys.  I don’t think she has been reviewed on here

Where did she advertise, was it AW, or VS or some other add.  If AW place her AW number into the search box, and if she has been reviewed on her, or her profile is being swapped, you will soon find out

[lamboman]

The issue of trafficked or coerced escorts is not restricted to the SW region, it happens all over the country and the advice given on this thread applies equally no matter where it's occurring.

Oh I thought it only happened in the SW thanks for clearing that up.

[lillythesavage]

Nope, not catching something. 

I had an awful punt recently and I have a nagging doubt that the lady didn’t want to be there.  As in she was being coerced.  I’m really interested to hear how you guys would deal with this? 

I regret going through with the deed to be honest.  For full disclosure I’m happy to share what I did do/have done, but would love to hear from the wise heads out there what they would do first.

It bothered you enough to post on here, put your mind at rest and call Plod, if nothing is untoward they have nothing to worry about and you have done what you can 

[daviemac]

Oh I thought it only happened in the SW thanks for clearing that up.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, don't blame me because you don't understand the obvious.

[lamboman]

 call Plod

Don't count on them leaving their desks though.

[lillythesavage]

Don't count on them leaving their desks though.

They do not have desks in this part of the world, a BMW is the office but the same applies 

Still stands though, if they do nothing it is on them, the OP has done the decent thing and all he can.

[daviemac]

They do not have desks in this part of the world, a BMW is the office but the same applies 

Still stands though, if they do nothing it is on them, the OP has done the decent thing and all he can.

What all those who are posting negative comments fail to realise is the length of time it takes to build a case and even if it appears no action has been taken all reports are noted and go a long way to help the investigation.

[lamboman]

They do not have desks in this part of the world, a BMW is the office but the same applies 

Still stands though, if they do nothing it is on them, the OP has done the decent thing and all he can.

True.

[Steely Dan]

External Link/Members Only

What about Trafficking
If you suspect trafficking, it is your job to report it. You can do this anonymously. Do it right away.

[lillythesavage]

What all those who are posting negative comments fail to realise is the length of time it takes to build a case and even if it appears no action has been taken all reports are noted and go a long way to help the investigation.

Sometimes they act immediately with a welfare visit, sometimes they may have an ongoing investigation and a visit cannot be done, all the Op can do is make the call and it should help put his mind at rest.

They do take reports seriously though if they are given the correct info.

[lamboman]

They do take reports seriously though if they are given the correct info.

You'd like to think so,I have my doubts as they seem reluctant to investigate any sort of serious crime.

[Oggytoo]

Hi all. For those asking, this was an advert on viva street, so not AW. 

The way I actually dealt with it yesterday was to register my concerns anonymously through crimestoppers.  They have an online form you can fill in and can chose whether to do so confidentiality or openly.  You can also get updates on the case anonymously if you want to.  I opted not to do that. 

I have no idea whether that will lead to anything happening, but I felt I had to do something.   I hope the lady is okay. 

[lillythesavage]

Hi all. For those asking, this was an advert on viva street, so not AW. 

The way I actually dealt with it yesterday was to register my concerns anonymously through crimestoppers.  They have an online form you can fill in and can chose whether to do so confidentiality or openly.  You can also get updates on the case anonymously if you want to.  I opted not to do that. 

I have no idea whether that will lead to anything happening, but I felt I had to do something.   I hope the lady is okay.

Never be afraid to call direct, they know the way of the world and will not judge you.

[scutty brown]

Hi all. For those asking, this was an advert on viva street, so not AW. 

The way I actually dealt with it yesterday was to register my concerns anonymously through crimestoppers.  They have an online form you can fill in and can chose whether to do so confidentiality or openly.  You can also get updates on the case anonymously if you want to.  I opted not to do that. 

I have no idea whether that will lead to anything happening, but I felt I had to do something.   I hope the lady is okay.

Crimestoppers are   pretty quick at getting info through quickly, what you did was as good as anything else.
Out of your hands now, it's up to the police

[timsussex]

Only happened to me once in Southampton and it was the after deed chat that made me uncomfortable I left her £20 tip - the only time I have ever left a tip. Had a bit of a sleepless night wondering If I should report it and who to?

The problem was solved by the authorities raiding the flat the next day

[contentguy]

Well done to the OP for reporting, and to SW punter for moving to the general thread.

It amazes me when intelligent and ‘loaded’ punters get sarky with mods and others on here for moving a thread here that had no regional context. 

[maxxblue]

Following site is really useful. It gives effective alternative options to reporting to the police for those reluctant to do so:

External Link/Members Only.

[daviemac]

Hi all. For those asking, this was an advert on viva street, so not AW. 

The way I actually dealt with it yesterday was to register my concerns anonymously through crimestoppers.  They have an online form you can fill in and can chose whether to do so confidentiality or openly.  You can also get updates on the case anonymously if you want to.  I opted not to do that. 

I have no idea whether that will lead to anything happening, but I felt I had to do something.   I hope the lady is okay.

Well done for reporting it mate, the more people who do the better.

We need to ignore the ones who haven't got a clue what they are talking about and not let their negativity put anyone off reporting it.

Most police forces have special units who deal with human trafficking and sex related crimes, in fact there was a program on channel 4 last year about one in the South West.

External Link/Members Only

[s0whatsnew?]

Anything done online or digitally is not, cannot be, anonymous, including Crimestoppers.   'They'  can ignore the sender's address  if they want to.  But if they don't want to...?  VPN's are PGP (pretty good privacy).  But the police attitude then is 'why should we take this seriously if we cannot judge the motivation or honesty of the informant'?    Seems to me that that judgement is the biggest factor in police decision-making.  Logically this would also apply to cut-outs like the Sally Ally or Citizens Advice.

Absolutely this shouldn't stop us from being socially responsibly and just plain human.   The best solution I come up with is to use a public pay phone to crimestoppers.  Optional balaclava to hide from any nearby cctv cams! 

[daviemac]

Anything done online or digitally is not, cannot be, anonymous, including Crimestoppers.   'They'  can ignore the sender's address  if they want to.  But if they don't want to...?  VPN's are PGP (pretty good privacy).  But the police attitude then is 'why should we take this seriously if we cannot judge the motivation or honesty of the informant'?    Seems to me that that judgement is the biggest factor in police decision-making.  Logically this would also apply to cut-outs like the Sally Ally or Citizens Advice.

Absolutely this shouldn't stop us from being socially responsibly and just plain human.   The best solution I come up with is to use a public pay phone to crimestoppers.  Optional balaclava to hide from any nearby cctv cams!

So what you are saying here is that this guarantee from Crimestoppers is a load of bollocks. Can you link to reports where the statement below is untrue and people have been identified. 

The Crimestoppers guarantee
Our service is unique and designed to protect your identity, whether you call us on 0800 555 111 or submit our anonymous online form.
In all the years that we have been running, no one has ever been identified after giving information. It is vital that we guarantee your anonymity because if your identity became known, our reputation would be seriously damaged.
We guarantee:
•   You will not be asked to reveal your name or any personal details.
•   We will listen to any information you have on a crime.
•   Your call will not be recorded.
•   We have no caller line display, no 1471 facility and have never traced a call.
•   Calls are free from all phones, landline or mobile, and will not show up on your bill.
•   Our specially trained call agents will support you through the process and make sure your report contains no information that could identify you.
•   We do not make a note of gender, accents, apparent age or ethnicity of any caller.
•   Even if you give personal details, they will not be recorded, and we will pass information to the relevant authority without revealing your identity.
•   When you report via our online form, you can do so safe in the knowledge that your device’s IP addresses are overwritten, masked and can never be traced.
If you are giving information by mobile phone, when you have finished your call, you can go into your phone's 'Recents' list and delete your call to us from the list straight away - just look for the word 'delete' or the bin symbol.

The only person who knows you contacted us with information is you. And your information can make a real difference. Around 10 people are arrested and charged every day as a result of information given to Crimestoppers. Since we were founded, we have received over 2.2 million actionable calls, have been responsible for more than 151,000 people being arrested and charged with a crime, for over £139 million worth of stolen goods being recovered, and for over £367 million worth of illegal drugs being seized.
•   No police.
•   No witness statements.
•   No courts.

I can't speak for other force areas but Northumbria police take sexwork related crime seriously, they have Dedicated Liaison Officers who deal with it.

There's a useful website here - External Link/Members Only - and a contact number - 0800 0121 700 on the Northumbria police webpage.  External Link/Members Only

As far as the police not taking action is concerned this report from April last year must be fake news eh??  External Link/Members Only Not sure how they would know about that if someone didn't report it. 

To be honest it amazes me the level of negativity from some people on threads like this. The bottom line is if you suspect something is wrong report it.

[lillythesavage]

Anything done online or digitally is not, cannot be, anonymous, including Crimestoppers.   'They'  can ignore the sender's address  if they want to.  But if they don't want to...?  VPN's are PGP (pretty good privacy).  But the police attitude then is 'why should we take this seriously if we cannot judge the motivation or honesty of the informant'?    Seems to me that that judgement is the biggest factor in police decision-making.  Logically this would also apply to cut-outs like the Sally Ally or Citizens Advice.

Absolutely this shouldn't stop us from being socially responsibly and just plain human.   The best solution I come up with is to use a public pay phone to crimestoppers.  Optional balaclava to hide from any nearby cctv cams!

From experience I can tell you all, there is absolutely no need for all the James Bond stuff, a direct call is the best way to add some urgency and there is absolutely no judgement at all, at least not in front of you, and no attempts to expose you.

Obviously those attached will have more reasons and fears of doing so, but they do seem to act on this far better than for other crimes, talking to someone can often get more information across that may be missed in an online report, it is really up to you how you feel is the best way for you and your situation or how you feel about what you witnessed, but no reason to fear making that call, just explain your situation.

[contentguy]

VPN's are PGP (pretty good privacy).

What did you mean by that, it doesn’t make sense to me.

[DrGFreeman]

I agree the morally correct thing to do is report it
But I would only do being very cautious about being anonymous
Isn't having sex with a trafficked girl considered rape in England/Wales?
While it seems unlikely the police would use your report to prosecute you, no-one will give you any support if they did.

[no2punter]

I think it's better to be safe than sorry in this scenario because our hobby becomes illegal if the WG was trafficked, even if the punter had no idea. Definitely avoid the shady new Rom, African or Brazilian profiles that are obviously written by a pimp.

[Tender.french.kiss]

I think it's better to be safe than sorry in this scenario because our hobby becomes illegal if the WG was trafficked, even if the punter had no idea. Definitely avoid the shady new Rom, African or Brazilian profiles that are obviously written by a pimp.

I'd like to broaden my horizons and try a couple of Brazilians, but this is exactly the reason I prefer not to risk it with the suspicious influx of South Americans lately

[s0whatsnew?]

What did you mean by that, it doesn’t make sense to me.

PGP is an American term for  'middle grade' of security, roughly half way on the scale from basic to 'ultra-ultra'  (my definition).

[s0whatsnew?]

From experience I can tell you all, there is absolutely no need for all the James Bond stuff, a direct call is the best way to add some urgency and there is absolutely no judgement at all, at least not in front of you, and no attempts to expose you.

Obviously those attached will have more reasons and fears of doing so, but they do seem to act on this far better than for other crimes, talking to someone can often get more information across that may be missed in an online report, it is really up to you how you feel is the best way for you and your situation or how you feel about what you witnessed, but no reason to fear making that call, just explain your situation.

I did expect some blowback on my balaclava comment which was only partly tongue in cheek.   T'would be very easy to sync the time-stamps from cctv and payphone calls.   Certainly it would be unlikely that the level of crime we on this site are likely to report would result in that level of police investigation.  But the point I'm trying to make is that they can if they want to. 

[s0whatsnew?]

So what you are saying here is that this guarantee from Crimestoppers is a load of bollocks. Can you link to reports where the statement below is untrue and people have been identified. 
I can't speak for other force areas but Northumbria police take sexwork related crime seriously, they have Dedicated Liaison Officers who deal with it.

There's a useful website here - External Link/Members Only - and a contact number - 0800 0121 700 on the Northumbria police webpage.  External Link/Members Only

As far as the police not taking action is concerned this report from April last year must be fake news eh??  External Link/Members Only Not sure how they would know about that if someone didn't report it. 

To be honest it amazes me the level of negativity from some people on threads like this. The bottom line is if you suspect something is wrong report it.

Working backwards, your very last statement  'bottom line is if you suspect...';  I agree completely.  My own last comment  said exactly that.  Nothing negative from me, simply a suggestion of how to be truly anonymous.  Balaclavas by choice.  (!)

The last bullet point of the main body of the  'Crimestoppers Charter'  concerning the masking of  IP's of online submissions I respectfully assert is bollocks.  Yes!  There!  I've said it!  I'll say it again if you like!   ANYTHING ONLINE  +  MOBILE PHONES CANNOT BE ANONYMOUS.   Even tho the human operators might fully respect their privacy protocols, the machinery certainly will not.  Ultimately it comes down to police discretion.  Do you think that a bomb warning will qualify for the crimestopper guarantee?  I don't. 

As later comments to yours have said, its not just what present practice is, its what the trend of authority capability is.  The recent crime/online harm bill just passed into law severely restricts civil liberties and increases the surveillance rights of the state.  Not just in the UK but the USA also.

The rest of it

[daviemac]

Do you think that a bomb warning will qualify for the crimestopper guarantee?  I don't. 

FFS, keep it in perspective, we are talking about reporting suspected trafficking and or coerced sex workers, nothing to do with national security.   

Do you really think that they are going to go to the lengths it would take to trace someone who's phoned up or even gone online and said they've been to such and such address and the think the prostitute is coerced.

One of the main considerations in prosecutions is if it's in the public interest and I doubt very much it would be classed as in the public interest to trace and prosecute someone who has been of help in locating human traffickers.

[lillythesavage]

I did expect some blowback on my balaclava comment which was only partly tongue in cheek.   T'would be very easy to sync the time-stamps from cctv and payphone calls.   Certainly it would be unlikely that the level of crime we on this site are likely to report would result in that level of police investigation.  But the point I'm trying to make is that they can if they want to.

I am no fan of Plod, no one from my background is and could tell loads of stories of me dragging them through the courts when others would just pay the fine and take the points, or admit guilt and except a caution, the last one that knocked on my door a few weeks back was told to arrest me or fuck off.

When I reported this, there was a female cop sitting in my house while others carried out a visit, if they were going to, or wanted to, arrest anyone who reported this, it would have been me. They did not have to go looking for me.

Maybe I do not have the same fears of plod that lots on here seem to have, but because of this and the way things were handled, I can tell you that they hate those who exploit women, the main concern is the women involved and they have no problem with men who pay for sex or women who do it willingly.

I spent several hours talking to a female cop about it.

If using a fear of the Police makes anyone think it is ok to ignore fears as punter, that is up to them and their conscience, if punters are not going to report this, who is?  Plod can do nothing about things they do not know about. 

[bigden40]

PGP is an American term for  'middle grade' of security, roughly half way on the scale from basic to 'ultra-ultra'  (my definition).

No it isn’t.  PGP is an open source encryption program developed by Phil Zimmerman over 30 years ago and is used for encrypting, decrypting and signing messages. It uses public key authentication and is the most widely used encryption software for email.

External Link/Members Only

[contentguy]

No it isn’t.  PGP is an open source encryption program developed by Phil Zimmerman over 30 years ago and is used for encrypting, decrypting and signing messages. It uses public key authentication and is the most widely used encryption software for email.

External Link/Members Only

Precisely, and the naming it "pretty good privacy" was pure irony as at the time it was gold standard security.

VPNs may use encryption, but to describe them as "pretty good privacy" is just confusing.