"They're taking our jobs"

[jeanphillipe]

The headlines across the last few days would suggest a employee shortage not just skilled areas but unskilled sectors too.

Will the "no jobs" or "they taking our jobs" crowd please get to work now....

We have had it drummed by the likes of the daily mail immigration is killing the jobs market for local people and it's the same daily mail now reporting on employee shortages in the 100,000s

It's time like this that people need to step up and fill these roles, theres no excuses now.

[Boundless]

I can't believe the amount of job vacancies at the moment especially in the hospitalty industry, seems that everywhere is short of staff.
A visitor attraction near me has one cafe on short hours and another closed and they told me that they just can't get staff to fill the jobs. It can't all be down to EU workers leaving the UK surely? I suppose a look at the unemployment figures would give a clearer picture of what's actually happening.

Assuming that no-one wants to do these jobs, admittedly they are mostly minimum wage, what are all the other jobs that they're now doing and where did those vacancies suddenly spring from?

[LLPunting]

...

Assuming that no-one wants to do these jobs, admittedly they are mostly minimum wage, what are all the other jobs that they're now doing and where did those vacancies suddenly spring from?

They're all working in start-ups wanting their over-priced cupcakes, foodtruck meals and coffees; they're running independent "patisseries" or cupcake or coffee or food experience" stalls/tuktuks/trucks; they're running custom, "conscience driven" clothing/lifestyle accessory "ateliers" from their laptops organising direct delivery from China/Vietnam/Cambodia/Philippines/"World sweatshop" to your door...; running IG/TikTok/YT travelogues from their converted camper vehicles with rescue dog; the list of BS, luxury indulgences goes on...

[SamuelJackson88]

You get what you voted for.

[Adoniron]

If you pay them properly they will come.

[Colston36]

If you pay them properly they will come.

Exactly - assuming they want to work. It seems most don't.

The plain fact is that people come over here to do the jobs Brits don't care for. Read a description of what's involved in long-distance truck driving: you won't be too keen to try it.

I hated and still hate the European bureaucrats I never voted for, but we're now seeing the alternative.

[JamesKW]

The headlines across the last few days would suggest a employee shortage not just skilled areas but unskilled sectors too.

Will the "no jobs" or "they taking our jobs" crowd please get to work now....

We have had it drummed by the likes of the daily mail immigration is killing the jobs market for local people and it's the same daily mail now reporting on employee shortages in the 100,000s

It's time like this that people need to step up and fill these roles, theres no excuses now.

Potentially there will be another million unemployed at the end of this week when furlough finishes,also there are plenty of guys delivering lukewarm hamburgers at my local McDonalds(about 20 at the last count)  its not lack of cheap labour its lack of proper training and skills and a reliance on cheap labour over the last 15 years that was already trained overseas.

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes well it's the same old argument / claim that's kept coming up for centuries, the people don't change the faces do 

I'm guessing that our overall economy / demand expanded over 20 years to match the influx of additional people living here however with people no longer coming who would have come to work minimum wage jobs and many returning back home we don't have enough supply for the demand.

I don't remember unemployment ever being high in the last 20 years however the claims of jobs being taken was still broadcast.
Minimum wage has far outpaced inflation in the last 20 years so it's not the shit wage it used to be however for many UK born people they still want more despite having little or no qualifications.
The reality is that there are people who for various reasons genuinely aren't able to work and those people need support however those still whining are either plain lazy or in many instances are just fucking useless 

The company I work for resisted going down the EE employment agency route for years and persisted employing UK born people on permanent contracts from day 1 
20 years ago there was a queue of people phoning the factory on a daily basis asking about jobs but that dwindled meaning adverts needed to be placed to spread the net wider and wider.
Eventually we couldn't fill vacancies and ended up employing people who didn't think that an 8.30 start time applied to them so they could just roll in at 9.30 and when challenged they thought docking them an hours pay was unfair 

The EE agency people came in and what a difference, young; fit and eager to work it was like a breath of fresh air, those who proved themselves got full time contracts after 6 months and in the following years many have got promotion.

We're now back to struggling to get enough staff as the EE agencies are struggling to get enough workers so the factory isn't running efficiently.
Perhaps we need to start looking further afield than Europe, i'm sure that will please the "Taking our jobs" brigade 

[JamesKW]

Perhaps we need to start looking further afield than Europe, i'm sure that will please the "Taking our jobs" brigade 

Maybe this is just a Northern problem, in my home town a few Polish left but most Romanians and Albanians stayed also plenty arrived from Ghana and Nigeria and most of our McDonalds scooter riders look like they came from the Middle East,we also have loads from the Phillipines,I live in one of the most diversified towns in the World.

[Dipper]

Over reliance on cheap labour agencies, shit quality and in many cases non existent training again due to Penny pinching.

Just as much a cause of the problems as the “brexit to blame” side of things.

Push wages down and try cost cutting for decades and this is what bites on the arse further down the line.

Not forgetting closing down the world so no driver training or tests can be done.

[workinallweek]

 we produce univercity leavers who have been streamlined into it rather than getting proper jobs

[sir wanksalot]

If you pay them properly they will come.

So what's a "proper" wage?

Is it safe to assume that if someone is unemployed or on other benefits then even a low paid job is better than no job at all?

The "foreigners" were supposed to be taking all the jobs from the brits.

[JamesKW]

I can't believe the amount of job vacancies at the moment especially in the hospitalty industry, seems that everywhere is short of staff.

This is one area in London hit real hard and nowhere near recovered,as you say it relied on mainly overseas cheap labour but I would say 70% of Prets,bars,restaurants,hotels are still closed and many will never reopen,tourism is probably just about 5% pre COVID.

[LLPunting]

we produce univercity leavers who have been streamlined into it rather than getting proper jobs

Forgot this bit, from <5% of the young adults cohort to 50+% on an increasing cohort size... no longer a ticking timebomb more an annual holing below the waterline for the low-to-average paid job market supply of domestic workers.

[Blackpool Rock]

Over reliance on cheap labour agencies, shit quality and in many cases non existent training again due to Penny pinching.

Just as much a cause of the problems as the “brexit to blame” side of things.

Push wages down and try cost cutting for decades and this is what bites on the arse further down the line.

Not forgetting closing down the world so no driver training or tests can be done.

I'm not sure where this "Over reliance on cheap labour" and "Pushing wages down" phrase comes from 

As I already posted the increases in minimum wage in the last 20 years or so have ensured that minimum wage jobs have far outpaced inflation and probably also higher waged jobs, those at the base level have never had it so good.
I am aware that those who are on the next level or two up from minimum wage jobs perhaps now earn not much more than minimum wage so the pay differential has been eroded but they aren't losing out as such it's just the people on the bottom rung have been lifted up.

Those on minimum wage or on the lowest wages before the minimum wage was introduced would always have been classed as "Cheap labour"

I would agree that we haven't over decades trained people properly to do jobs and apprenticeships etc, pushing so many people to go to University who would previously have become tradesman etc hasn't worked out well.
While I agree with the aspirational theory of making University accessible for more working class people and perhaps more people did need to go to Uni the deluge of mediocre people getting degrees and then finding themselves in £60K of debt but still working basic jobs is fundamentally flawed

[sir wanksalot]

Yes well it's the same old argument / claim that's kept coming up for centuries, the people don't change the faces do 

I'm guessing that our overall economy / demand expanded over 20 years to match the influx of additional people living here however with people no longer coming who would have come to work minimum wage jobs and many returning back home we don't have enough supply for the demand.

I don't remember unemployment ever being high in the last 20 years however the claims of jobs being taken was still broadcast.
Minimum wage has far outpaced inflation in the last 20 years so it's not the shit wage it used to be however for many UK born people they still want more despite having little or no qualifications.
The reality is that there are people who for various reasons genuinely aren't able to work and those people need support however those still whining are either plain lazy or in many instances are just fucking useless 

The company I work for resisted going down the EE employment agency route for years and persisted employing UK born people on permanent contracts from day 1 
20 years ago there was a queue of people phoning the factory on a daily basis asking about jobs but that dwindled meaning adverts needed to be placed to spread the net wider and wider.
Eventually we couldn't fill vacancies and ended up employing people who didn't think that an 8.30 start time applied to them so they could just roll in at 9.30 and when challenged they thought docking them an hours pay was unfair 

The EE agency people came in and what a difference, young; fit and eager to work it was like a breath of fresh air, those who proved themselves got full time contracts after 6 months and in the following years many have got promotion.

We're now back to struggling to get enough staff as the EE agencies are struggling to get enough workers so the factory isn't running efficiently.
Perhaps we need to start looking further afield than Europe, i'm sure that will please the "Taking our jobs" brigade 

+1

If we rely on the British labour market then we will be screwed in the next 5 years.

There seems to be some ideology taking root in this country that EVERY job has to be well paid. The reality of life is that there are some hard,monotonous,physical jobs that pay crap wages but they ARE paying minimum wages or above. Our snowflake generation are getting all hopped up that they they deserve better money etc.

Has anyone here worked with someone just fresh out of college or uni? My own experience is they have no work ethic. They are far from dumb and could probably write a better essay then me about the economic history of the UK since 1945 but leave them alone in a room for a week and access to the internet and guess what's going to happen.

Wait for the farming industry to start screaming about wasted crops because no Brits wants to do the back breaking work of picking them. Likewise with the care home industry. We're already seeing it with the hospitality and HGV sectors.

The BBC ran a documentary a few years back where they waited outside job centres and asked people leaving if they'd be willing to start a new job for x amount of money per week. Most said no but some agreed although those that agreed tried to back out when they realised it meant a 5am start. Most of the ones that agreed didn't turn up for work on the day and the others didn't stay long.

What I find curious is how other nationalities seemingly find a backdoor entrance into the UK job market. I know someone who works in a job agency and there are many Portugese speaking people (from Portugese speaking countries rather than Portugal itself) who are now flooding the job market.

One final thought.....I wonder why job agencies don't attract much more criticism. They are the ones who usually decide on how much to pay workers. They have infiltrated every corner of the UK job market. In some cases they provide a useful service but in most cases they are an expensive middleman that pays low wages to the employee and charges higher costs to their client (the company that the agency worker works for).

It baffles me as to why local authorities and the NHS don't have their own in house employment agencies rather than paying stupid fees

[JamesKW]

Wait for the farming industry to start screaming about wasted crops because no Brits wants to do the back breaking work of picking them. Likewise with the care home industry. We're already seeing it with the hospitality and HGV sectors.

In the short term this is a problem,but in Californian wine industry when there was a lack of cheap Mexican labour they were forced to automate,we have done the same thing on our plantations (I wont say where) in countries where actually the workers are very low paid.
Cheap labour for care work and the NHS in our area is largely carried out by staff from countries outside the EU such as from Africa and the Phillipines,it was never really dependant on those from the EU.

[sir wanksalot]

In the short term this is a problem,but in Californian wine industry when there was a lack of cheap Mexican labour they were forced to automate,we have done the same thing on our plantations (I wont say where) in countries where actually the workers are very low paid.
Cheap labour for care work and the NHS in our area is largely carried out by staff from countries outside the EU such as from Africa and the Phillipines,it was never really dependant on those from the EU.

Forgive my ignorance but how do workers from Africa and the Phillipines get work visas when new EE workers cannot?

[Blackpool Rock]

One final thought.....I wonder why job agencies don't attract much more criticism. They are the ones who usually decide on how much to pay workers. They have infiltrated every corner of the UK job market. In some cases they provide a useful service but in most cases they are an expensive middleman that pays low wages to the employee and charges higher costs to their client (the company that the agency worker works for).

It baffles me as to why local authorities and the NHS don't have their own in house employment agencies rather than paying stupid fees

Yes i've questioned why we are prepared to pay an agency more money than we pay our full time staff and pointed out that if we paid the higher wage to employ local people we could surely get better calibre people.
The answer is normally that we can get shot of a bad agency person the same day plus if work is lighter we just don't ask for as many staff that week rather than having to pay people even if they aren't 100% busy, I still think it's false economy in the long run though.

For the public sector the same applies but they perhaps have a slightly different issue in that full time council employees attracted a more long term issue in that you had to pay them good final salary pensions etc.
By employing a sub contracted driver etc they swerve that long term cost but I don't think that taking the constant short term solution is best in the long run, take all those public / private contracts to build hospitals etc, yes it got them built there and then but cost X times more in the long run 
What we need is long term planning and solutions so that hospitals and nuclear power stations aren't all funded by China etc

[Blackpool Rock]

Forgive my ignorance but how do workers from Africa and the Phillipines get work visas when new EE workers cannot?

Who says they can't get visas, I thought they could but now need to come under the same criteria as non EU workers 
Isn't it all down to being a skilled worker or working in an area that is deemed to require fulfilment of a labour shortage 

The reality is that many who would previously have come now don't want to

[dubs]

If you pay them properly they will come.

Higher wages will be passed on to the consumer as higher prices, which will lead to inflation.  I don't see how paying more for the same product/service improves people's quality of life. 

The only benefit will be to those EU workers who come here on temp visas and earn better money but spend it back in the EU where prices have not inflated. 

[sir wanksalot]

Yes i've questioned why we are prepared to pay an agency more money than we pay our full time staff and pointed out that if we paid the higher wage to employ local people we could surely get better calibre people.
The answer is normally that we can get shot of a bad agency person the same day plus if work is lighter we just don't ask for as many staff that week rather than having to pay people even if they aren't 100% busy, I still think it's false economy in the long run though.

For the public sector the same applies but they perhaps have a slightly different issue in that full time council employees attracted a more long term issue in that you had to pay them good final salary pensions etc.
By employing a sub contracted driver etc they swerve that long term cost but I don't think that taking the constant short term solution is best in the long run, take all those public / private contracts to build hospitals etc, yes it got them built there and then but cost X times more in the long run 
What we need is long term planning and solutions so that hospitals and nuclear power stations aren't all funded by China etc

Nothing to stop cutting out job agencies but then keeping the temp worker on a much better hourly rate. They don't need to markup and sell onto their client as they would be their own client.

As you say, it suppresses the hourly wage for the worker, increases the cost for the employer and all that money is going into the pockets of the job agency

[dubs]

The reality is that many who would previously have come now don't want to

Yep.  As heard on the R4 today programme this morning from the straight-talking Dutch.

External Link/Members Only

[Blackpool Rock]

Higher wages will be passed on to the consumer as higher prices, which will lead to inflation.  I don't see how paying more for the same product/service improves people's quality of life. 

The only benefit will be to those EU workers who come here on temp visas and earn better money but spend it back in the EU where prices have not inflated.

Exactly but unfortunately people can't see further than the end of their noses and we end up back in a 1970's spiral of excessive wage demands and inflation.
I can see a bumpy ride ahead but hopefully within a few years water will have found it's own level

[sir wanksalot]

Who says they can't get visas, I thought they could but now need to come under the same criteria as non EU workers 
Isn't it all down to being a skilled worker or working in an area that is deemed to require fulfilment of a labour shortage 

The reality is that many who would previously have come now don't want to

I'm not sure myself to be honest with you.

I think they would need to be a skilled worker and be offered a job paying £ 20,480 or above which I would doubt care workers and farm labourers would qualify.

No doubt there is some skullduggery going on that circumnavigates the legalities of it all.

[Blackpool Rock]

I'm not sure myself to be honest with you.

I think they would need to be a skilled worker and be offered a job paying £ 20,480 or above which I would doubt care workers and farm labourers would qualify.

No doubt there is some skullduggery going on that circumnavigates the legalities of it all.

A quick skim of this indicates a minimum salary and skill level is required or that it's in an area where we require labour, exemptions appear to be in place for low paid sectors such as nursing and as you say skulduggery could blow the doors off if and when it's deemed we need more people to do XYZ as there's a requirement

 External Link/Members Only

[JamesKW]

Forgive my ignorance but how do workers from Africa and the Phillipines get work visas when new EE workers cannot?

Dont know, I guess they claim to be refugees,but there are no lack of them in my town, no lack of Eastern Europeans either still hanging around.

[Gordon Bennett]

The onset of covid created a weird vacuum in which the effects of brexit were neutralised and delayed. We should have experienced these sort of snags, hitches and teething problems early in 2020 but the shut down of the economy put everything on ice.
I see today's situation as inevitable fallout from extricating ourselves from 40yrs of EU membership. It's entirely expected and predictable and we'lll ride it out with short-term measures and then over coming years make the necessary longterm fixes to sort it out

[lillythesavage]

I'm not sure where this "Over reliance on cheap labour" and "Pushing wages down" phrase comes from 

As I already posted the increases in minimum wage in the last 20 years or so have ensured that minimum wage jobs have far outpaced inflation and probably also higher waged jobs, those at the base level have never had it so good.
I am aware that those who are on the next level or two up from minimum wage jobs perhaps now earn not much more than minimum wage so the pay differential has been eroded but they aren't losing out as such it's just the people on the bottom rung have been lifted up.

Those on minimum wage or on the lowest wages before the minimum wage was introduced would always have been classed as "Cheap labour"

I would agree that we haven't over decades trained people properly to do jobs and apprenticeships etc, pushing so many people to go to University who would previously have become tradesman etc hasn't worked out well.
While I agree with the aspirational theory of making University accessible for more working class people and perhaps more people did need to go to Uni the deluge of mediocre people getting degrees and then finding themselves in £60K of debt but still working basic jobs is fundamentally flawed

There should never have been a need for " minimum wage"  and all it did was give big business a bench mark to get down to.

they did this, and councils are guilty of this too, by setting up management companies so they avoid employing people directly, putting contracts out to tender but dictating the rate they will pay, and wages were driven down while there was plenty looking for work.

The growth in population, an ageing workforce, in the case of HGV drivers, people on zero hours contracts being driven home in the pandemic because they got no help, and a multitude of other reasons have changed things, the working class can no longer be shat on, things have to change.

Many were better off on benefits than working zero hours contracts for the minimum wage, it bred a whole society that have never worked and those that failed at school have little chance, they cannot get past the computer CV check, let alone get an interview.

[anyfucker]

Yes i've questioned why we are prepared to pay an agency more money than we pay our full time staff and pointed out that if we paid the higher wage to employ local people we could surely get better calibre people.
The answer is normally that we can get shot of a bad agency person the same day plus if work is lighter we just don't ask for as many staff that week rather than having to pay people even if they aren't 100% busy, I still think it's false economy in the long run though.

For the public sector the same applies but they perhaps have a slightly different issue in that full time council employees attracted a more long term issue in that you had to pay them good final salary pensions etc.
By employing a sub contracted driver etc they swerve that long term cost but I don't think that taking the constant short term solution is best in the long run, take all those public / private contracts to build hospitals etc, yes it got them built there and then but cost X times more in the long run 
What we need is long term planning and solutions so that hospitals and nuclear power stations aren't all funded by China etc

with a Full Time employee there is also employers National Insurance and pension contributions.

[sir wanksalot]

There should never have been a need for " minimum wage"  and all it did was give big business a bench mark to get down to.

they did this, and councils are guilty of this too, by setting up management companies so they avoid employing people directly, putting contracts out to tender but dictating the rate they will pay, and wages were driven down while there was plenty looking for work.

The growth in population, an ageing workforce, in the case of HGV drivers, people on zero hours contracts being driven home in the pandemic because they got no help, and a multitude of other reasons have changed things, the working class can no longer be shat on, things have to change.

Many were better off on benefits than working zero hours contracts for the minimum wage, it bred a whole society that have never worked and those that failed at school have little chance, they cannot get past the computer CV check, let alone get an interview.

I agree with some of what you say but I detect a tone, perhaps wrongly, that you have some sympathy for the generation of people who remain on benefits because the system has let them down. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have first hand information from friends who work in job agencies recruiting staff and they tell me that when jobs are advertised in the job centre,they are advertised to everybody, not just a certain nationality.

Brits do apply for these jobs although not in great numbers but the real eye opener is that the Brits invariably will not turn up for the interviews. It seems to be a box ticking exercise where they have to attend X number of interviews a month to prove they are actively seeking work. Proof of an interview constitutes evidence.

The infuriating thing is that the job centre won't bother to check up if the applicant has turned up.

[JamesKW]

They're all working in start-ups wanting their over-priced cupcakes, foodtruck meals and coffees; they're running independent "patisseries" or cupcake or coffee or food experience" stalls/tuktuks/trucks; they're running custom, "conscience driven" clothing/lifestyle accessory "ateliers" from their laptops organising direct delivery from China/Vietnam/Cambodia/Philippines/"World sweatshop" to your door...; running IG/TikTok/YT travelogues from their converted camper vehicles with rescue dog; the list of BS, luxury indulgences goes on...

Another group you forgot is the huge spirituality and wellness industry helping their fellows get over their mental illnesses,though most of the types you mention are middle class who would never drive a tanker in a million years.

[lostandfound]

Higher wages will be passed on to the consumer as higher prices, which will lead to inflation.  I don't see how paying more for the same product/service improves people's quality of life. 

The only benefit will be to those EU workers who come here on temp visas and earn better money but spend it back in the EU where prices have not inflated.

Importing cheap labour from EE reduced the cost to business, but they were in effect being subsidised by the tax payer, as the low wages paid resulted in that labour / their dependents being a burden on the state.

[mradventures]

the answer to hospitality is pretty obvious. covid. how tempting is low pay and fairly high risk of getting covid?

and yeah the employment agencies add very little value to an employee. they will take half what the company pays, and you are in a very weak position with employment rights

[JamesKW]

the answer to hospitality is pretty obvious. covid. how tempting is low pay and fairly high risk of getting covid?

and yeah the employment agencies add very little value to an employee. they will take half what the company pays, and you are in a very weak position with employment rights

Hospitality has boosted in some areas such as people holidaying at home and there is a surge of those catching up on experiences they have missed over the last year but many parts the industry have been decimated,not just London (which I recogn by observance has lost 95% of its visitors) but also those other attractions around the country which depended on foreign tourists. Also all those business conferences etc that used to take place havent restarted yet.

[sir wanksalot]

Importing cheap labour from EE reduced the cost to business, but they were in effect being subsidised by the tax payer, as the low wages paid resulted in that labour / their dependents being a burden on the state.

A "burden to the state"?

I really struggle to understand where this narrative comes from.

If EE labour was cheap then it was only cheap in that they were willing to do the menial jobs that the British unemployed didn't want to do. As I have said before. I don't know where or when we in this country we started thinking that every job has to be well paid. There are going to be well paid jobs and shit paid jobs but it's still a job.

Where do you get the idea that EE workers and their dependants were a burden on the state?

[JamesKW]

One of the problems is expectations have been raised so most want to be a lawyer rather than drive a tanker,lets hope the rules of supply and demand operate so that law becomes over subscribed = low pay, and reduced supply towards menial jobs will push up wages in these areas.

[PepeMAGA]

A "burden to the state"?

I really struggle to understand where this narrative comes from.

If EE labour was cheap then it was only cheap in that they were willing to do the menial jobs that the British unemployed didn't want to do. As I have said before. I don't know where or when we in this country we started thinking that every job has to be well paid. There are going to be well paid jobs and shit paid jobs but it's still a job.

Agree, if someone needed the money, they would take the job, they don't though because they can claim benefits and be better off.
That doesn't mean we should continue to import cheap labour - unless there is a genuine requirement.
This is something to resolve in the long term.
There is this fallacy also that companies operate to such thin profit margins they can't afford to pay Their staff any more.
This often comes up with sweat shops in foreign countries., yet the profit margins are huge (see apple and sports clothing)

[lostandfound]

A "burden to the state"?

I really struggle to understand where this narrative comes from.

If EE labour was cheap then it was only cheap in that they were willing to do the menial jobs that the British unemployed didn't want to do. As I have said before. I don't know where or when we in this country we started thinking that every job has to be well paid. There are going to be well paid jobs and shit paid jobs but it's still a job.

Where do you get the idea that EE workers and their dependants were a burden on the state?

A few years ago a vote / plebiscite happened that changed things for this country - around this issue and others like it. Did you miss that debate?

[Adoniron]

So what's a "proper" wage?

Is it safe to assume that if someone is unemployed or on other benefits then even a low paid job is better than no job at all?

The "foreigners" were supposed to be taking all the jobs from the brits.

A proper wage is enough to live on rather than just exist. Some people who have jobs also receive universal credit because their pay is so low - the taxpayer is subsidising their employer.

[Blackpool Rock]

A proper wage is enough to live on rather than just exist. Some people who have jobs also receive universal credit because their pay is so low - the taxpayer is subsidising their employer.

Apart from putting everybody's wages up results in inflation so you then need more to live on.

Pay everyone £100K a year but it's no good if 4 pints of milk goes from just over a quid to £10 and everything else also goes up tenfold
Even with everyone earning loads of money there would still be people struggling and "living in poverty"

[PepeMAGA]

A proper wage is enough to live on rather than just exist. Some people who have jobs also receive universal credit because their pay is so low - the taxpayer is subsidising their employer.

Think the cost of homes/rent is the biggest burden, but not easy to resolve.

[Cactus]

External Link/Members Only

I remember reading this article last year.

This shit show at the minute is the tip of the iceberg. Today’s youth all want to be in media or the arts, very few will take what we’d call menial jobs, never mind the trades we need to construct the houses and infrastructure we’ve been promised. The Eastern European market flooded the construction industry with hungry eager workers, that forced the natives to up their game. With the requirements for settled status, they’ve gone home, leaving Joiners & Brickies on £30+ per hour.

There isn’t the workforce coming up behind the current aging generation of tradespeople. I had an argument with a girl who was a careers advisor at one of Edinburgh’s preeminent private schools, when she asked if I’d recommend kids going into my line of work. I suggested that more kids should be being encouraged to take up a trade, to which she scoffed that there was no aspiration in being a tradesperson.

Kids are brainwashed that university is the promised land.

There needs to be an incentive to have kids try trades, maybe a reduction in tuition fees if they serve a two year paid work placement before starting university with a vocational qualification offered upon completion.  Teach them some skills before they start their studies that they can return to after further education if they see fit.

[Moby Dick]

Higher wages will be passed on to the consumer as higher prices, which will lead to inflation.  I don't see how paying more for the same product/service improves people's quality of life. 

The only benefit will be to those EU workers who come here on temp visas and earn better money but spend it back in the EU where prices have not inflated.

So we can then travel to the EU and drink their cheaper beer, eat their cheaper food, sleep in their cheaper hotels and fuck their cheap women.
Some of their cheap women may even come to the UK to undercut our expensive pussy inflated ones. 
Seems to me that economies need both rich and poor people.
The government will use inflation to generate more taxes and make the national debt (due to Covid) affordable. Simple economics, just make sure you don’t end up at the bottom of the heap.

[sir wanksalot]

A few years ago a vote / plebiscite happened that changed things for this country - around this issue and others like it. Did you miss that debate?

Struggling to explain how a lowly paid EE worker and their dependants are a burden to the state.Ok. Let's pretend you never said it.

The problem with Brexit is that those wanting to remain knew what they were voting for. Those who voted to leave, all wanted to leave for different reasons e.g. bureaucracy, immigration, NHS etc

Please answer me this question though. If protecting British jobs is so important to people that they're happy to put their name to a referendum that (to them) meant less migrant workers then where are your clothes produced? Where is the sofa in your front room made? Your shoes?

If you really want to protect British jobs then that is going to cost you my friend. Firstly in time, by making a bit of an effort to source British manufactured goods and secondly in money as British produced goods are largely more expensive than from the Far East or other parts of the world.

[sir wanksalot]

A proper wage is enough to live on rather than just exist. Some people who have jobs also receive universal credit because their pay is so low - the taxpayer is subsidising their employer.

So what is the minimum that someone can live on rather than just exist? There isn't a figure you can put on that as everyone spends their money differently

[lillythesavage]

External Link/Members Only

I remember reading this article last year.

This shit show at the minute is the tip of the iceberg. Today’s youth all want to be in media or the arts, very few will take what we’d call menial jobs, never mind the trades we need to construct the houses and infrastructure we’ve been promised. The Eastern European market flooded the construction industry with hungry eager workers, that forced the natives to up their game. With the requirements for settled status, they’ve gone home, leaving Joiners & Brickies on £30+ per hour.

There isn’t the workforce coming up behind the current aging generation of tradespeople. I had an argument with a girl who was a careers advisor at one of Edinburgh’s preeminent private schools, when she asked if I’d recommend kids going into my line of work. I suggested that more kids should be being encouraged to take up a trade, to which she scoffed that there was no aspiration in being a tradesperson.

Kids are brainwashed that university is the promised land.

There needs to be an incentive to have kids try trades, maybe a reduction in tuition fees if they serve a two year paid work placement before starting university with a vocational qualification offered upon completion.  Teach them some skills before they start their studies that they can return to after further education if they see fit.

You are right abut tip of the ice berg, but wrong about settled status, that was no big deal if they lived and worked here, I know plenty that did it, there are other reasons some have gone home. A lot to do with it being home and it being not so easy to make a home here and lots of others, settled status sent some home, but not those that worked legally and wanted to stay.

Any manual job has been over looked because there has been plenty to do them, they have known for years drivers and trades have an ageing workforce, companies have ignored this and not invested in the future, all about the bottom line these days and CEO,s justifying the big pay with a big bottom line and dividend.

Career advisors have ignored it too, successive governments have too, this one is getting the blame because the shit is hitting the fan, but it has been ignored for years.

[king tarzan]

Where is Nigel now???

[petermisc]

Brexit was always intended to reduce the number of foreign workers here.  The combination of Brexit and Covid meant that what should have been a gradual decline in numbers became a sudden exodus.  Not surprisingly, significant numbers wanted to be back in their home countries, back with their nearest and dearest, at a time of crisis.  This has caused problems not just in the UK, but in other countries heavily dependent on migrant workers.

The big difference is that while they are likely to start going back to places like Germany, we have put up a big "we don't want you" sign.  Even with the HGV drivers, yes we might reluctantly be offering temporary visas, but we are still saying that we are going to kick them back out again at the end of the year.  Put yourself in their shoes, and why on earth would you chose to come here when there are far more inviting countries?

[sparkus]

Where is Nigel now???

Flogging his wares on the sinking GB News channel.