Recovering from Covid-19, both personally and the country.

[winkywanky]

Perhaps somewhat premature right now, but at some point victims will (hopefully) be recovering from this globally-destructive virus.

Statistically, some UKP members will be among them, and not necessarily picked up from inadvisable meets with WGs, so don't be afraid to post up about it.

What were your personal experiences, both from actually suffering it, and its impact on your life?

And how is the country getting over this unprecedented time (in living memory at least)?

[Thecunninglinguist]

I guess provided my self isolation works and l do not succom to the virus, l am one of the very lucky ones who will be very little affected. My income is not under threat and sufficient. I own my house outright. I have lost a holiday, for which l will be refunded. It will alter some plans l had for this year but they are only on hold. Yes l do realise how fortunate l am (as long as l survive this period) and feel desperately sorry for those who find themselves in the position l also would have been in two or three decades ago.

[paper7]

I had to go out and post a bill today, payment of which is still demanded even though I've got precious little money coming in atm. Of all the shops in the place where I live, only 3 were open.  They were the chemist, the co-op, and the local bakers. Now  I know the guy who runs the barbers, he's worked his f****** socks off to establish the business and then run it, competing with others for limited customers. I feel very sorry for him, and people like him, who've worked every hour they can and this is the reward they get. If, and when, we manage to beat this virus, or at least contain it we are going to be left in the deepest recession we've ever known, beating every other recession since 1900. It's going to be like the aftermath of the Great War, leaving it's mark on every family for years to come.

I seriously don't know how long this is going to go on for but it's likely to be 18 months and being in the high-risk if I catch it then it'll be a case of "Cheerio, it's been nice knowing you all"

I just wish we had strong leadership rather than the wishy-washy bunch we've been saddled with now, people who, quite simply, aren't 'fit for purpose'. leaders which tell us on one day it will last 12 weeks, and in the next breath we're going to lose loved ones.

In the absence of strong leadership we need to, not only look after ourselves, but vulnerable neighbours and family.

[GingerNuts]

I had to go out and post a bill today, payment of which is still demanded even though I've got precious little money coming in atm. Of all the shops in the place where I live, only 3 were open.  They were the chemist, the co-op, and the local bakers. Now  I know the guy who runs the barbers, he's worked his f****** socks off to establish the business and then run it, competing with others for limited customers. I feel very sorry for him, and people like him, who've worked every hour they can and this is the reward they get. If, and when, we manage to beat this virus, or at least contain it we are going to be left in the deepest recession we've ever known, beating every other recession since 1900. It's going to be like the aftermath of the Great War, leaving it's mark on every family for years to come.

I seriously don't know how long this is going to go on for but it's likely to be 18 months and being in the high-risk if I catch it then it'll be a case of "Cheerio, it's been nice knowing you all"

I just wish we had strong leadership rather than the wishy-washy bunch we've been saddled with now, people who, quite simply, aren't 'fit for purpose'. leaders which tell us on one day it will last 12 weeks, and in the next breath we're going to lose loved ones.

In the absence of strong leadership we need to, not only look after ourselves, but vulnerable neighbours and family.

Your barber friend will be able to claim 80% of his self employed earnings up to £30k and likely a £10k small business grant or grant funding of £25k. When we're all out and about again everyone will need a haircut.

[paper7]

Your barber friend will be able to claim 80% of his self employed earnings up to £30k and likely a £10k small business grant or grant funding of £25k. When we're all out and about again everyone will need a haircut.

You are right, IF he feels it's worth his while and he hasn't gone personally bankrupt in the interim. Coming from a family of Self Employed I know how difficult things can be and will be now.

[southern punter]

Your barber friend will be able to claim 80% of his self employed earnings up to £30k and likely a £10k small business grant or grant funding of £25k. When we're all out and about again everyone will need a haircut.

Unless of course his books show that his earnings over the last few years are barely positive, or even negative,  because he has been reinvesting all his income as additional marketing / staffing etc.  Very common in new businesses and not a sign they are actually failing or unprofitable.  Then he gets 80% of sweet FA.

[tobyk1]

I had to go out and post a bill today, payment of which is still demanded even though I've got precious little money coming in atm. Of all the shops in the place where I live, only 3 were open.  They were the chemist, the co-op, and the local bakers. Now  I know the guy who runs the barbers, he's worked his f****** socks off to establish the business and then run it, competing with others for limited customers. I feel very sorry for him, and people like him, who've worked every hour they can and this is the reward they get. If, and when, we manage to beat this virus, or at least contain it we are going to be left in the deepest recession we've ever known, beating every other recession since 1900. It's going to be like the aftermath of the Great War, leaving it's mark on every family for years to come.

I seriously don't know how long this is going to go on for but it's likely to be 18 months and being in the high-risk if I catch it then it'll be a case of "Cheerio, it's been nice knowing you all"

I just wish we had strong leadership rather than the wishy-washy bunch we've been saddled with now, people who, quite simply, aren't 'fit for purpose'. leaders which tell us on one day it will last 12 weeks, and in the next breath we're going to lose loved ones.

In the absence of strong leadership we need to, not only look after ourselves, but vulnerable neighbours and family.

Some interesting points. Agreed that the government subsidies will not be enough to save all small, medium, or large businesses. The difficulty will be how long does this lockdown (and subsequent economic inactivity) last. Right now the recession will not be as deep as you mention, but as the weeks and months roll on then it doesn’t look so good.

The economic outcomes of Spain and Italy will be interesting, where their governments aren’t as rich as ours, Trumps, Merkels, or Xi’s. How and when will the small business owners ever recover?

Agreed with the lack of stern leadership. All seem a bit ‘too nice’, albeit satisfactorily intelligent. We need a wartime leader at times like these. Surely Bojo has to show his face before the weekend.

[GingerNuts]

Unless of course his books show that his earnings over the last few years are barely positive, or even negative,  because he has been reinvesting all his income as additional marketing / staffing etc.  Very common in new businesses and not a sign they are actually failing or unprofitable.  Then he gets 80% of sweet FA.

He's a local barber not Vidal Sassoon.

[daviemac]

Unless of course his books show that his earnings over the last few years are barely positive, or even negative,  because he has been reinvesting all his income as additional marketing / staffing etc.  Very common in new businesses and not a sign they are actually failing or unprofitable.  Then he gets 80% of sweet FA.

I must be missing something here, I would've thought he could claim 80% of whatever average salary he has drawn, or are you suggesting he has had no money to live on for the past few years???

[Beamer]

I must be missing something here, I would've thought he could claim 80% of whatever average salary he has drawn, or are you suggesting he has had no money to live on for the past few years???

I think it's 80% up to a maximum of £2,500 which isn't a lot for many who will have been earning in excess of £5k a month.

[daviemac]

I think it's 80% up to a maximum of £2,500 which isn't a lot for many who will have been earning in excess of £5k a month.

I took that as a given, the point is no matter how much he has reinvested he must have had some money for day to day living and his books must show that, even if end result is break even.

I would be interested in hearing what southern punter thinks he has been living on.   

[Beamer]

I took that as a given, the point is no matter how much he has reinvested he must have had some money for day to day living and his books must show that, even if end result is break even.

I would be interested in hearing what southern punter thinks he has been living on.   

Agreed 

[threechilliman]

A lot of self employed people set a company up and pay themselves in dividends. Very tax efficient, but they don't qualify as earnings for this calc.

[winkywanky]

A lot of self employed people set a company up and pay themselves in dividends. Very tax efficient, but they don't qualify as earnings for this calc.

Some might argue those people are getting their comeuppance for fleecing other tax payers, and presumably that 'tax efficiency' also means they probably pay fuck all NI (which pays for the NHS)?

[mh]

I must be missing something here, I would've thought he could claim 80% of whatever average salary he has drawn, or are you suggesting he has had no money to live on for the past few years???

If self-employed it is 80% of profits, based on previous year's filed earnings for tax. Of course everyone self-employed tries to keep their taxable profits down anyway. Not eligible to claim if profits were > £50K.

If employed by his own limited company then under the CJRS it is 80% of PAYE wages only, not dividends. Based on Feb 2020 salary or an average over a 12 month period if salary variable month to month.

[mh]

Some might argue those people are getting their comeuppance for fleecing other tax payers

Indeed, everyone is complaining now that the (in my opinion) generous government support is based on income declared for tax. What the fuck else should it be based on? I think they have set it up well, but there are clearly still unfortunate gaps, like those who only just started work or moved job, the self-employed who don't have a trading record.

presumably that 'tax efficiency' also means they probably pay fuck all NI (which pays for the NHS)?

There's no hypothecation or "ring-fencing" whatsoever. NI is just a general tax with different allowances and thresholds and an employer & employee component. Employee NI records are used to assess eligibility for benefits and pensions.

[winkywanky]

I was under the impression NI went straight to the relevant areas of the social care system? Unlike Road Fund Licence (or whatever car tax is called)?

But regardless, if you haven't paid in like others, then don't expect the same support in times of great need.

[freeze44]

Some might argue those people are getting their comeuppance for fleecing other tax payers, and presumably that 'tax efficiency' also means they probably pay fuck all NI (which pays for the NHS)?

Whilst I agree the government can't be expected to design a scheme that allows those who have failed to declare true income, it's going to be the tax payer picking up the bill through universal credit for those in need.

What about the scam of large corporations paying little tax and now getting 80% of wages paid by the tax payer?

The comeuppance should be, long term, the tax system imo.

[daviemac]

If self-employed it is 80% of profits, based on previous year's filed earnings for tax. Of course everyone self-employed tries to keep their taxable profits down anyway. Not eligible to claim if profits were > £50K.

If employed by his own limited company then under the CJRS it is 80% of PAYE wages only, not dividends. Based on Feb 2020 salary or an average over a 12 month period if salary variable month to month.

As I understand it the taxable grant is 80% of average monthly income up to £2500 based on 2018/19 tax return. I'm quite sure if someone shows £0 income on their tax return questions would be asked about how they manage to live.   

[winkywanky]

Whilst I agree the government can't be expected to design a scheme that allows those who have failed to declare true income, it's going to be the tax payer picking up the bill through universal credit for those in need.

What about the scam of large corporations paying little tax and now getting 80% of wages paid by the tax payer?

The comeuppance should be, long term, the tax system imo.

True, but it wouldn't be to the level of previous income.

And I totally agree about the various loopholes being closed. It's very difficult to close them all and some clever fucker will always try to find another one, but depending on the people in question (how many, and how much political/economical clout) the govt doesn't always make the decisions it ought to, when trying to make sure everyone pays their way.

[Hobbit]

I myself am starting to find it quite depressing and don't like this anymore. I'm really hoping this lockdown is over soon. I haven't been out for over 2 weeks and the lack of social contact is starting to affect my mental health i.e. starting to feel unmotivated, depressed, tired and anxious. The lack of freedom and no sex, no football, no alcohol, and people are dying from a virus which they can't stop, prevent or even slow down.

Different people give me different responses and some say this will be over soon whilst others say that this could go on for several months and maybe years. It just feels like a bad nightmare and I am hoping someone will wake me up from it. And to top it off, people are losing jobs. I have a job at the moment but if this carries on for months then the company I work for will probably go under and I would lose my job amongst others.

[freeze44]

True, but it wouldn't be to the level of previous income.

And I totally agree about the various loopholes being closed. It's very difficult to close them all and some clever fucker will always try to find another one, but depending on the people in question (how many, and how much political/economical clout) the govt doesn't always make the decisions it ought to, when trying to make sure everyone pays their way.

Agree ww and might shock people moving on to universal credit into having more sympathy for those who are supposed to live on it....which is why we have such a large black market.

I like some of the talk coming out about banks owing the public after we bailed them out and hope that leads to a rethink of how tax is collected and targeted. It only really requires the will to do it but atm that isn't there....fingers crossed that will change.

[threechilliman]

Some might argue those people are getting their comeuppance for fleecing other tax payers, and presumably that 'tax efficiency' also means they probably pay fuck all NI (which pays for the NHS)?

Correct on both counts.

[winkywanky]

I myself am starting to find it quite depressing and don't like this anymore. I'm really hoping this lockdown is over soon. I haven't been out for over 2 weeks and the lack of social contact is starting to affect my mental health i.e. starting to feel unmotivated, depressed, tired and anxious. The lack of freedom and no sex, no football, no alcohol, and people are dying from a virus which they can't stop, prevent or even slow down.

Different people give me different responses and some say this will be over soon whilst others say that this could go on for several months and maybe years. It just feels like a bad nightmare and I am hoping someone will wake me up from it. And to top it off, people are losing jobs. I have a job at the moment but if this carries on for months then the company I work for will probably go under and I would lose my job amongst others.

I think quite rightly the govt are preparing people for the worst case scenario (as much as anything else, probably to try and shock people into doing the right thing and social distancing).

I think the effects will go on for over a year, but I also think there'll be periodical slight relaxations of the Lockdown, and then tightening, in a controlled manner. This has been mooted.

Basically, buying a bit of time until anti-virals and a vaccine become available. I think we'll see drugs and vaccines being fast-tracked to a degree.

It will be very tough, but not all doom and gloom.

[Spunky34]

I was under the impression NI went straight to the relevant areas of the social care system? Unlike Road Fund Licence (or whatever car tax is called)?

But regardless, if you haven't paid in like others, then don't expect the same support in times of great need.

NI used to be ring-fenced but it hasn’t been for many years.  Just part of one big national tax take pot.

One of Gordon Brown’s greatest conjuring tricks was to be able to keep the 1997 pledge not to increase income tax but he happily increased NI contributions (and did away with the National Insurance cap at the same time, which meant the effect on tax take was identical to the same increase in income tax rates).

[Xtro]

I was under the impression NI went straight to the relevant areas of the social care system? Unlike Road Fund Licence (or whatever car tax is called)?

But regardless, if you haven't paid in like others, then don't expect the same support in times of great need.

I thought it was more related to your state pension.   

[Hobbit]

I think quite rightly the govt are preparing people for the worst case scenario (as much as anything else, probably to try and shock people into doing the right thing and social distancing).

I think the effects will go on for over a year, but I also think there'll be periodical slight relaxations of the Lockdown, and then tightening, in a controlled manner. This has been mooted.

Basically, buying a bit of time until anti-virals and a vaccine become available. I think we'll see drugs and vaccines being fast-tracked to a degree.

It will be very tough, but not all doom and gloom.

So what do you think they would relax first and open up and at what stage do you think pubs, restaurants, shops and hotels will reopen?

[winkywanky]

I thought it was more related to your state pension.   

I was including that in the 'social care' bit  .

[winkywanky]

So what do you think they would relax first and open up and at what stage do you think pubs, restaurants, shops and hotels will reopen?

I have no idea whatsoever of any details.

This is purely based on what was mooted at one of the Daily govt updates a few days ago, in very general terms.

I think logically, there's no way we could carry on exactly as we are for the next 6mths or something, the social side-effects would start to be worse than CV itself.

But it will have to be done in a very measured way, and with close monitoring so that the inevitable (hopefully) mini-peak that arose out of it could be nipped in the bud.

[mh]

One of Gordon Brown’s greatest conjuring tricks was to be able to keep the 1997 pledge not to increase income tax but he happily increased NI contributions

Or the Tories pledging not to increase income tax then happily increasing VAT?   

[Hobbit]

Or the Tories pledging not to increase income tax then happily increasing VAT?   

When this is over, they will definitely increase taxes. I can see it happening.

[mh]

When this is over, they will definitely increase taxes. I can see it happening.

No doubt about that but any government would have to, not much choice.

[ulstersubbie]

I think human beings are resilient up to a point, but the longer this goes on social unrest will become inevitable. Personally I could put up with it for six weeks or so but I have a limit. Can see lots of disputes between neighbours arising from the current situation.

[Spunky34]

Or the Tories pledging not to increase income tax then happily increasing VAT?   

Not quite the same, and you’ll see I was using the example to address a direct question that had been raised rather than political point scoring.  That NI increase had literally the same impact on individuals as an increase in Income Tax would have done, because Income Tax and NI are based on the same earned income.  He also at the same time changed the way NI is calculated, removing the upper limit (there used to be a maximum NI that someone would pay) so that putting a penny on NI was literally the same as putting a penny on Income Tax.

To take your example, VAT is not based on income, it’s based on what you purchase, and in my mind putting that tax up but not doing the same for income tax is a choice governments choose to make, but it’s not breaking a promise not to increase income tax.  The Cameron government never promised that no taxes would rise.  For what it worth, I would rather have swallowed an income tax increase than the VAT increase because inherently I think income tax is “fairer” than VAT, in that those who earn more money pay more income tax, whereas everyone pays the same VAT for the same product.

I mentioned the NI increase because it illustrated exactly what winkywanky had expressed, the widely-held misunderstanding that NI is somehow ring-fenced for things like the state pension and the NHS, which hasn’t been the case for donkeys years.  And Gordon Brown’s increase in NI allowed him to get round one of their key pledges on their 1997 “pledge card” by exploiting that misunderstanding. 

[GreyDave]

I myself am starting to find it quite depressing and don't like this anymore. I'm really hoping this lockdown is over soon. I haven't been out for over 2 weeks and the lack of social contact is starting to affect my mental health i.e. starting to feel unmotivated, depressed, tired and anxious. The lack of freedom and no sex, no football, no alcohol, and people are dying from a virus which they can't stop, prevent or even slow down.

Different people give me different responses and some say this will be over soon whilst others say that this could go on for several months and maybe years. It just feels like a bad nightmare and I am hoping someone will wake me up from it. And to top it off, people are losing jobs. I have a job at the moment but if this carries on for months then the company I work for will probably go under and I would lose my job amongst others.

Same here Sir  the more you read and listen the facts just get more worring they released a thing on news an hour ago re the mask wearing the virus can live in air in micro droplets for 3 hrs no distance stated, distances of 9m sneezing 3m cough...they dont know I saw on Spainish site ( have familly there ) a micro bio reserch was asked about cure " youre on our backs about this ! footballers earn 70,000 a month reserchers 1800 ask Ronaldo or Mesi... Ok its the fans that pay or clubs... but our taxes pay their wage...Thank goodness we got out of the EU as the measures to try and save business and people are not allowed in europe look at italy they asked for help: Non  or Neine was response and yet they are now asked to give 50million e to Tunsia as thier share of EU funding  MADNESS ... I hope I dont get this as I and many freinds and family are on the at risk ..it frightens me... As I type this 6 mad Romainians are BBQ ing and smoking and drinking this spilt out on to road yesterday WTF is it with them? the Fn BBC should broad cast in ROM and scare them too Worst than VD but not as much fun to catch

[Mr Sinister]

I like some of the talk coming out about banks owing the public after we bailed them out

Fat chance of that happening, if they continue on their hard stance of supporting businesses and people there maybe blood on the streets. However I don't see that happening we're too soft and focused on the wrong things here Brexit, immigration etc... I do want to see people coming together and making those accountable for spewing such BS to get elected and only looking after their own interests instead of serving the people. This goes for some other countries who have been gullible.

[winkywanky]

As I type this 6 mad Romainians are BBQ ing and smoking and drinking this spilt out on to road yesterday WTF is it with them? the Fn BBC should broad cast in ROM and scare them too Worst than VD but not as much fun to catch

Make sure you phone the police when this happens.

[mh]

Not quite the same

tl;dr

I had already replied to ww that NI wasn't ring fenced and was just a general tax, 2 hours before you did. I know all the rest. All governments fuck us on their pledges. They don't get elected if they tell the truth.

[snaitram99]

NI used to be ring-fenced but it hasn’t been for many years.  Just part of one big national tax take pot.

One of Gordon Brown’s greatest conjuring tricks was to be able to keep the 1997 pledge not to increase income tax but he happily increased NI contributions (and did away with the National Insurance cap at the same time, which meant the effect on tax take was identical to the same increase in income tax rates).

Mrs Thatcher increased NI every time she reduced the standard rate of Income Tax.

National Insurance was originally introduced for sickness and unemployment benefit for workers. Also pensions I think. NHIS was originally a separate stamp (literally, stuck on a card) for the NHS but at some point the two were combined. There is still a National Insurance Fund but most of Health Service and welfare state benefits are paid for from general taxation.

[tobyk1]

Today’s press briefing cannot be serious ...

This -if it wasn’t already- is rapidly turning into a dick-measuring competition between governments.

WTH?! Work together! Use the same tests! Give us real updates!

[GingerNuts]

Mrs Thatcher increased NI every time she reduced the standard rate of Income Tax.

I don't think so.

Basic tax rate reduced from 33% to 30% in 1979, NI increased from 6.50% to 6.75% for 1979/80
Basic tax rate reduced to 29% in 1986, NI stayed at 9% (as it had been since 1982/3)
Basic tax rate reduced to 27% in 1987, NI stayed at 9%
Basic tax rate reduced to 25% in 1988, NI stayed at 9%

[willie loman]

I am in a minority here, but lock down will end way earlier than the jeremiahs are saying, Denmark is ending their lock down soonish, Sweden hasn't bothered, nor has belorusse, much of the world for various reasons is incapable of lock down. There have been deaths but so far we are well short of the 10 k mark, and no explanation if the victims died of the virus, or had the virus and died of underlying conditions. nowhere remotely near the 250k mark. People seen to think this is" the day of the Triffids" with feral gangs roaming the streets, breakdown of law and order, food shortages etc, none of this will happen. The strong leadership we need, is actually someone being realistic .

[Beamer]

I am in a minority here, but lock down will end way earlier than the jeremiahs are saying, Denmark is ending their lock down soonish, Sweden hasn't bothered, nor has belorusse, much of the world for various reasons is incapable of lock down. There have been deaths but so far we are well short of the 10 k mark, and no explanation if the victims died of the virus, or had the virus and died of underlying conditions. nowhere remotely near the 250k mark. People seen to think this is" the day of the Triffids" with feral gangs roaming the streets, breakdown of law and order, food shortages etc, none of this will happen. The strong leadership we need, is actually someone being realistic .

Have you just landed from another planet?

[winkywanky]

I am in a minority here, but lock down will end way earlier than the jeremiahs are saying, Denmark is ending their lock down soonish, Sweden hasn't bothered, nor has belorusse, much of the world for various reasons is incapable of lock down. There have been deaths but so far we are well short of the 10 k mark, and no explanation if the victims died of the virus, or had the virus and died of underlying conditions. nowhere remotely near the 250k mark. People seen to think this is" the day of the Triffids" with feral gangs roaming the streets, breakdown of law and order, food shortages etc, none of this will happen. The strong leadership we need, is actually someone being realistic .

You're in a minority for a reason.

And calling people 'Jeremiahs' doesn't make you sound any more reasonable.

You go on about how few have died, yet you fail to register that if no action had been taken there'd already be many more dead, with many, many more to come.

UCL has estimated that if the UK had taken no action we'd be looking at around half a million deaths in the UK alone. So it's not so much a difference of opinion, more a case of you don't know what youre talking about, but the experts do.

As for whether people actually died of the virus or whether the virus triggered their death (which wouldn't otherwise have occurred) what difference does it make? 

You're the one not being realistic, you've got your head up your arse, all because you don't want to feel guilty about fucking a WG.

[willie loman]

You're in a minority for a reason.

And calling people 'Jeremiahs' doesn't make you sound any more reasonable.

You go on about how few have died, yet you fail to register that if no action had been taken there'd already be many more dead, with many, many more to come.

UCL has estimated that if the UK had taken no action we'd be looking at around half a million deaths in the UK alone. So it's not so much a difference of opinion, more a case of you don't know what youre talking about, but the experts do.

As for whether people actually died of the virus or whether the virus triggered their death (which wouldn't otherwise have occurred) what difference does it make? 

You're the one not being realistic, you've got your head up your arse, all because you don't want to feel guilty about fucking a WG.

Lock down wont save any lives , it is not a cure, it will slow the rate of death, so 10k in a month unacceptable, 10 k over 6 months that acceptable,

[winkywanky]

Lock down wont save any lives , it is not a cure, it will slow the rate of death, so 10k in a month unacceptable, 10 k over 6 months that acceptable,

I cannot believe you lack even the tiniest amount of logic to realise that Lockdown will save many lives  .

[willie loman]

I cannot believe you lack even the tiniest amount of logic to realise that Lockdown will save many lives  .

You are the one who is failing to understand, until there is a vaccine there is no way to save people, we cant sit in our houses forever. I You are a selfish old man, who because you are financially secure, are happy to see the country go over a cliff.

[cotton]

I don't think so.

Basic tax rate reduced from 33% to 30% in 1979, NI increased from 6.50% to 6.75% for 1979/80
Basic tax rate reduced to 29% in 1986, NI stayed at 9% (as it had been since 1982/3)
Basic tax rate reduced to 27% in 1987, NI stayed at 9%
Basic tax rate reduced to 25% in 1988, NI stayed at 9%

If thats true and snaitram99 plain and simple got it wrong woudnt it be refreshing if he just came back , put his hands up and said "ah fuck someone checked - ok its a fair cop i lied" kinda like fair enough he gave it a go , didnt expect anyone to actually check if what he was saying was true or not , goodnight vienna 

[Doc Holliday]

Have you just landed from another planet?

No he is just trolling. He keeps repeating the same post over and over to get a reaction. Just ignore.

[winkywanky]

You are the one who is failing to understand, until there is a vaccine there is no way to save people, we cant sit in our houses forever. I You are a selfish old man, who because you are financially secure, are happy to see the country go over a cliff.

I'm selfish because I'm not happy to see many people die needlessly. Ah, OK  .

Like I say, the experts are saying half a million people would die in the UK with no action, across the world that figure is estimated to be 40 million (the usual annual death toll is 60 million).

But of course either they're wrong and you're right, or maybe they're just as selfish as I am?