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Author Topic: Should a ban be permanent ? (This obviously excludes the 7 days ban)  (Read 10842 times)

Online jamiekinkxxx

Is there not a legal position to consider when it comes to banning members who have paid a subscription fee ?

If they have to sign-up to T&C's as part of that process... i.e the rules of the site, then I would say no there would not be

Offline John Johnson

Permanent ban : Fantasists who write fake reviews. Anyone who brags about hurting or bullying WG's. Also anyone posting rape type reviews, (a good example of this is currently being discussed in the W. Mids section). Basically, anyone who comes across as a 'wrong un'

Temp ban : Someone who temporarily loses his/her temper, has a meltdown, abuses mods/members in the heat of the moment, but is otherwise, generally a good person/contributor, and shows remorse.

Oh, and as regards WG's. Permanent ban for outing punters, disrespecting mods/this site. Temp ban for temporary loss of control, (being wound up by a member for example).



Without wishing to sound like I'm blowing smoke up his butt I think  that Alabama1 has got it about right here.

There are arseholes who should be banned along with their blood relatives for 3 generations, but most will moderate their behaviour in line with expected standard if given a few weeks standing in the corner with the Dunce hat on.

That reminds me, on a forum that I moderated many years ago we had a low level sanction for slightly annoying members.  We could tag their acount publicly with a "bell end" graphic in place of their avatar for up to a month, it also added the words "bell end" under their name..
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 02:14:39 pm by John Johnson »

Online 90125

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Seeking do it all the time. You're breaking the t&c so can be banned.

Absolutely - new members sign up to the rules albeit they might not be the latest version. Is a banned member seriously going to take the Forum to Court?

Offline badsin

I've voted 6 months, however after that if they do come back on their original profile name etc, should have a period where their post's are monitored. :hi:

Offline JontyR

I've voted 6 months, however after that if they do come back on their original profile name etc, should have a period where their post's are monitored. :hi:

Potentially a lot of work for mods who already do a lot to the smooth running of the site.

On the fees aspect, it is to be noticed that the mods already give a lot of leeway before slapping out a ban. And the new welcoming and guiding hand aspect to new users I think extends to this.

Offline MissWolf

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IMO the temporary 7 day works well, if they then don't modify their behaviour after that and the ban becomes permanent then it should be 100% permanent

The permanent ban as it stands is in my opinion right, there should be no comming back from that ban, the thought that Mr West Midlands rape man, sar major or KT could get back here is a horrible one.

Sadly once you give the like of those type of people a 'second' chance it doesn't encourage them to change, they go one of two ways, they either get better at hiding what they are doing and look to all intends and purposes that they have changed,  when actually they are exactly the same or worse, or they get extra bold because they feel like they can do as they please and crow around the forum like they own the place which makes the mods and owners look like fools.

The only exception I can see is if someone banned for leaching or lurking, they IMO could be allowed back after say 3 month. They would need to pay the joining fee and contribute to  site as per the rules, if that wasn't adhered to then a permanent banning would be in order.

Offline mr.bluesky

Wholeheartedly agree with what Miss wolf says. A leopard never changes its spots.

Offline Vice Admiral

I would favour a seven-day ban for offences at the lowest end of the penal (or indeed penile) scale ... a 28-day ban for offences of middling severity ... and a permanent ban for truly vile or offensive behaviour.

I rather doubt if anyone who received a six-month or year-long ban would return anyway.  They would most likely take umbrage and never come back.

(Unless of course they're totally addicted to Strumpet Street and all its side-alleys...)

Offline PilotMan

I think a combination of Alabamas post and MissWolf.

Permanent for wronguns, slap on the wrist for someone who has an error of judgement. No joining fee upon return.

3 months for lurkers / leeches plus a joining fee upon return. If the site wants to raise funds this would be a good option IMHO. Leeches add absolutely no value at all, so it wouldn't be a loss to have a cull.

If leeches want to continue to have access to all the great information provided by contributing members, why let them have it for free?

Service providers should always be free, providing they are actively contributing. The regular contributors on here really add value and balance to the site. Not sure how that can be managed though?


« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 06:03:42 pm by PilotMan »

Online Punterperson1971

I think a combination of Alabamas post and MissWolf.

Permanent for wronguns, slap on the wrist for someone who has an error of judgement. No joining fee upon return.

3 months for lurkers / leeches plus a joining fee upon return. If the site wants to raise funds this would be a good option IMHO. Leeches add absolutely no value at all, so it wouldn't be a loss to have a cull.

If leeches want to continue to have access to all the great information provided by contributing members, why let them have it for free?

Service providers should always be free, providing they are actively contributing. The regular contributors on here really add value and balance to the site. Not sure how that can be managed though?

Great post and says it all

Offline Coriniumstud

I voted for six months
Everybody deserves a second chance

Offline ulstersubbie

I think a combination of Alabamas post and MissWolf.

Permanent for wronguns, slap on the wrist for someone who has an error of judgement. No joining fee upon return.

3 months for lurkers / leeches plus a joining fee upon return. If the site wants to raise funds this would be a good option IMHO. Leeches add absolutely no value at all, so it wouldn't be a loss to have a cull.

If leeches want to continue to have access to all the great information provided by contributing members, why let them have it for free?

Service providers should always be free, providing they are actively contributing. The regular contributors on here really add value and balance to the site. Not sure how that can be managed though?

The most sensible post on this thread so far.   :thumbsup:

Offline Doc Holliday


3 months for lurkers / leeches plus a joining fee upon return. If the site wants to raise funds this would be a good option IMHO. Leeches add absolutely no value at all, so it wouldn't be a loss to have a cull.

If leeches want to continue to have access to all the great information provided by contributing members, why let them have it for free?

Service providers should always be free, providing they are actively contributing. The regular contributors on here really add value and balance to the site. Not sure how that can be managed though?

What have leeches/lurkers got to do with what Head1 is asking about banned members? Or are you proposing all lurkers shoud be banned?

Online willie loman

That would be very controversial as there would be a financial gain for the site owners to hand out temp bans right left and centre.

+1

Online tynetunnel

Permanent ban : Fantasists who write fake reviews. Anyone who brags about hurting or bullying WG's. Also anyone posting rape type reviews, (a good example of this is currently being discussed in the W. Mids section). Basically, anyone who comes across as a 'wrong un'

Temp ban : Someone who temporarily loses his/her temper, has a meltdown, abuses mods/members in the heat of the moment, but is otherwise, generally a good person/contributor, and shows remorse.

Oh, and as regards WG's. Permanent ban for outing punters, disrespecting mods/this site. Temp ban for temporary loss of control, (being wound up by a member for example).

This sums up my position perfectly  :thumbsup:

Online timsussex

I've voted that a permanent ban is forever - there are some things that there is no coming back from

7 Days cooling off is fine but there are some serious offences which might merit a 3, 6 or 12 month ban inc denigrating a Mod - some people might learn from that. Give the Mods more discretion over ban length

Online Atrueyorkie

What have leeches/lurkers got to do with what Head1 is asking about banned members? Or are you proposing all lurkers shoud be banned?

That too, leechers/lurkers should be banned

Offline Natwest

+1

There may be a case for rather than banning, terminating long time lurkers membership but inviting them to re-join with a now paid subscription? Just a thought.

Offline Doc Holliday

So Head1 one asks us is there a case for looking at the permanency of bans and now we are instead talking about banning most of the membership?

The increasing unhealthy obsession with non contributing members, has resulted in the owner and his team having to step in and prevent lynch mobs. They are trying to change the ethos of the forum and make the site more welcoming to new members and where hostility and negativity is replaced with encouragement.

Talk of wholesale banning of lurkers does little to help that cause and is completely unworkable anyway.

A simple poll is now a can of worms and involving suggestions of raising extra revenue, which would never have been the intention of the OP.


Online pythondan

I think a range of banning periods with associated "sentencing guidelines" would be a useful way to go.

1 week ban for minor transgressions or just to defuse arguments that are escalating.

1 month ban for not so serious transgressions against forum rules - e.g. minor white knighting where the contents of a review is challenged but in a polite manner.

3 month ban for not so serious wind up merchants.

Permanent ban for people who do totally unacceptable things like trying to get free punts in return for positive reviews, people who post reviews which show they have been abusive etc.

In this system the one week and one month bans could be issued by individual mods with no appeal or discussion.

3 month or permanent bans could be reviewed and agreed by two mods before being issued.

I do not think having an appeals process is really practicable - the mods surely do not want to get involved in lengthy exchanges.

I would say that the forum is probably in a better state now than it was a few years ago and generally the bans that get handed out recently seem well deserved based upon the contents of the threads with gave rise to them.

Online myothernameis


Talk of wholesale banning of lurkers does little to help that cause and is completely unworkable anyway.

I suppose with lurkers and leeches, who dont contribute to the site, and might post one thread, but they dont answer, questions put to them.   Dont think banning them, is the right way, but what about, if there was a new rule, which basically stated

If the mods ask you a question, you are expected to reply and give a reasonable answer.  Now the banning bit, this op now gets told, unless they reply on the next time they log in, a temp ban will be issued.   This ban would be for around 3-6 months, but if this op wants to continue posting he has to re-join the site, and pay another membership fee of £25

Offline MissWolf

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I'm not advocating banning all lurkers at all @Doc however many do get banned, I maybe have worded it wrong

I'm advocating that the permanent ban the site has at present is not watered down to a 6 or 12 month in the majority of cases, as allowing the likes of those I mentioned to return is a serious issue and degrades the value and image of the site.

The only difference I would suggest is that those that have been banned and labelled as lurkers, or those that have given the mods a bit of grief or cheek be given a longer spell on the naughty step and to return should need to pay a rejoin fee.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 09:46:50 pm by MissWolf »

Offline Neverthere

I think it works really good as it is and I do love the comments to let all know the reason why banned.

Just asking if we give a 2nd or 3rd chance from long term banned members, are we not asking a lot from the mods to make sure these returners are behaving?
I guess if they are happy taking on this extra responsibility then let's give it a chance, but it could really be a lot of policing though unless head1 and mods want to give helpers some extra powers to bring potential arsehole returners to the attention of mods. Only making this suggestion from the helpers and I suppose this could be subjective to long term helpers only  :unknown:

One more thought if people are allowed to return, should they return with previous username just so we can all see who has returned and maybe an under probation badge/flag associated?

Online RogerBoner

Vivago was an inspiration to me to punt multiple times during my trips to Thailand. He tried to market his own amateurish site and was warned but continued. I can try to contact him if you change the rules to a non permanent ban.

Online petermisc

I have voted for permanent being permanent.  BUT that is on the basis that someone who is given a permanent ban has done something REALLY serious.  And a permanent ban should only be imposed if at least two moderators agree it is that serious.

On another forum that I was a member of, one of the moderators was making postings that were effectively encouraging people to break covid regulations.  When I complained about the forum being used for this purpose, he became very aggressive.  I received an email asking me to explain, my reply generated three emails from him, and so on, each reply from me generating a flurry from him, until it got to the point where I just did not have time to answer all the emails he was sending (a dozen in the last day).  Because I failed to answer in the deadline he set, he permanently banned me.  I learnt my lesson that arguing with a moderator is not a good idea.  However, I would say that disagreeing with a moderator should not result in a permanent ban - these should be reserved for something really serious, like outing a contributor, encouraging violence, etc. 

Provided that a permanent ban is the considered, thought-through reaction of several moderators acting together, and not just the impulse reaction of one angry moderator, then permanent should be permanent.  No automatic second-chance.  The only come-back should be if the moderators subsequently think they made the wrong decision.

Online jamiekinkxxx

I think a range of banning periods with associated "sentencing guidelines" would be a useful way to go.

1 week ban for minor transgressions or just to defuse arguments that are escalating.

1 month ban for not so serious transgressions against forum rules - e.g. minor white knighting where the contents of a review is challenged but in a polite manner.

3 month ban for not so serious wind up merchants.

Permanent ban for people who do totally unacceptable things like trying to get free punts in return for positive reviews, people who post reviews which show they have been abusive etc.

In this system the one week and one month bans could be issued by individual mods with no appeal or discussion.

3 month or permanent bans could be reviewed and agreed by two mods before being issued.

I do not think having an appeals process is really practicable - the mods surely do not want to get involved in lengthy exchanges.

I would say that the forum is probably in a better state now than it was a few years ago and generally the bans that get handed out recently seem well deserved based upon the contents of the threads with gave rise to them.

+1 and where I was going with my initial post.

I may not 100% agree with your criteria but I feel there should be a graded criteria starting with a 7 day slap across the knuckles ban and  the ultimate level being an outright ban.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2023, 10:23:33 pm by jamiekinkxxx »

Offline stampjones

A couple of ideas. Obviously these are not Head1s options so possibly pointless but ideas are fun. These may not be practical due to technical limitations/expense.

A temporary ban is not a full ban - instead the banned member can post reviews (but that is all). When a certain number of these have been posted the offender os allowed back. Like 90125s suggestion but an alternative form of payment. I guess the danger is that people could submit fake reviews.

Only people who have contributed can avoid perm bans. At a certain level of contribution, soneone who is up for a ban the mods post a poll asking if the member is a useful contributor. If the community votes yes (by some %) the ban is moved to a temp ban. Downside is more work for mods but could in theory be mostly automated. Plus maybe too complicated.

Offline PilotMan


They are trying to change the ethos of the forum and make the site more welcoming to new members and where hostility and negativity is replaced with encouragement.

Talk of wholesale banning of lurkers does little to help that cause and is completely unworkable anyway.


Lurkers and new members are not the same, are they.

Why is it unworkable?

If someone has been a member for 5+ years, pays nothing, logs in frequently and doesn't contribute, what is the benefit in them being here?

My view is either; pay to view, contribute, or leave.

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

This will be argued about till the cows come home and then go out again!...

Online daviemac

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If someone has been a member for 5+ years, pays nothing, logs in frequently and doesn't contribute, what is the benefit in them being here?
How do you know how often they've logged in?  :unknown:


Offline s0whatsnew?

or those that have given the mods a bit of grief or cheek be given a longer spell on the naughty step and to return should need to pay a rejoin fee.

Why should those in authority have the privilege of being un-criticisable ?    Or of being unanswerable for their attitudes / decisions?      :bomb:
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 07:45:16 am by daviemac »

Online FiveKnuckles

I'm not advocating banning all lurkers at all @Doc however many do get banned, I maybe have worded it wrong

I'm advocating that the permanent ban the site has at present is not watered down to a 6 or 12 month in the majority of cases, as allowing the likes of those I mentioned to return is a serious issue and degrades the value and image of the site.

The only difference I would suggest is that those that have been banned and labelled as lurkers, or those that have given the mods a bit of grief or cheek be given a longer spell on the naughty step and to return should need to pay a rejoin fee.

Although the the term lurker and leech is used widely on the forum to describe members that do not participate, it's only the mods/admin that can determine if a member is actually in breech of the t&c for membership.  They can see the logs that show if they've logged in daily for 7 years or once in a blue moon.

I do think it's fair that members officially banned for lurking, that were riding on free accounts, have the chance to rejoin on a paid annual subscription.  Their only crime was not contributing and perhaps some git to the mods/admin.

*Previously un-banned members should be forever on probation, then booted with no 3rd chance of reprieve. If they can't change the 2nd time, then mods/admin are wasting their time.

Online daviemac

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Why should those in authority have the privilege of being un-criticisable ?    Or of being unanswerable for their attitudes / decisions?      :bomb:
MissWolf isn't saying that, she said "those that have given the mods a bit of grief or cheek" there's a difference. Anyone is welcome to ask me anything or raise any issue with me but do you think I should just accept the abuse shown below for doing what I can to help run the site the way the owner wants it run?

Daviemac, whats with the shitty attitude?
So fucking what if ive been a member for 2 years and not made a review? you've only done 24 ffs

 You are clearly a proper saddo if you dedicate your pathetic life moderating a prostitute review site,
If you speak to anyone in the street like you do on here you would be addicted to hospital food by now..

So, get yourself hard by banning me and knock one off..
 You're killing this site single handedly YOU DAFT CUNT !

Offline arrow0404

I think you also have to question the credibility of some punters on here - for instance those that have threatened girls with bad reviews for free punts - would anyone really take there reviews after coming back from a ban seriously ??

Offline Doc Holliday

Lurkers and new members are not the same, are they.

Why is it unworkable?

If someone has been a member for 5+ years, pays nothing, logs in frequently and doesn't contribute, what is the benefit in them being here?

My view is either; pay to view, contribute, or leave.

A new member is a lurker until he posts so they are the same thing. This is different to Guests who form the vast majority of lurkers, but cannot be banned. They can only be restricted in what they view. If you restrict too much and not make the forum publicly visible, you risk not attracting new members.

It’s unworkable because in 20 years I have never seen it work and many have tried. What I have seen is forums implode with the obsession of concerning themselves with something which is a universal ‘built in issue’ with message boards and cannot be avoided.

What I have also seen over time on punting forums, is this obsession results in those who are so precious about who reads what they post, that they increasingly turn to sharing with others by PM. This trend has clearly happened on UKP because PM’s have become very restricted.

People suggest “could we do this” and “could we do that”, with convoluted proposals with no thought as to whether the software allows it, or to the workload involved for a forum administered by a small number of volunteers and who are already overloaded trying to moderate behaviour among a very large number of members who do contribute. Simplicity is always best.

All you can do is what is currently being done well, that is when a lurker/leech pops up and posts asking for specific info and has never reciprocated he is challenged by the mods (who have access to their forum data) to explain themselves. This may or may not then lead to a ban. This is a very small number of members though.

We also now seem to be proposing an acceptable lurker is one who has paid. How does that sit with contributing members who pay? So instead of making a written contribution you make a financial one?
Head1 has been very careful to stress that paying does not give special privileges, this proposal threatens that.

Head1 asked a very simple question. I haven’t voted because IMO those particular ‘blanket’ time scale options are problematic. Permanent bans should be just that, but the person should be able to ask for it to be reviewed at any time. Very few will have a valid case for returning especially the KT types, although Head1 must have at least on person in mind or he wouldn’t have started this thread.

Instead we have opened up a can of worms.

Offline Jonestown

This will be argued about till the cows come home and then go out again!...

+1

But who are these cows, what services are they offering, incall / outcall, touring, big tits ?

Back on topic: keep it simple, respect limitations of the software & mods time, temporary ban is 7 days, full ban is for life, but Head1 to hold right to Royal Pardon.

Action against lurkers is fairly pointless as they can view offline anyway, most of them do.

Offline Doc Holliday

I'm not advocating banning all lurkers at all @Doc however many do get banned, I maybe have worded it wrong

I know you weren't Miss W, but others are proposing a cull.

Offline LLPunting

Lots of comments from the direction of "J'accuse!" and a few raising the matter of consequences of clemency and how to manage those re-admitted.

Some observations that are part of the context:
1)  Guests can currently view 10 posts a day (it was less but was relaxed at some point) and a few threads and boards are closed to them.  We know that some members look in as guests because that suffices their passing interest or need to spot/avoid a prospective punt.  The level of guest access perhaps needs recalibrating as part of the change to bans.

2)  Management have stated in the past that amongst the silent crowd are retired punters whom they wish to grant continued social access.  These veterans are not identifiable to the rest of us and are part of the community being safeguarded by the crackdown on challenges by non-mods.  I don't know how such veterans are verified.

3)  Do genuine, committed lurkers/leeches who never or have barely commented in the past and currently have no intent to post/review change their spots?  Whatever their reasons for silence, if we can't enter into sincere conversation with them then why would they be motivated to change?  Perhaps some sensitive or overly cautious types are amongst this silent majority, and they are the ones that management are trying to reach with the nicer tone they're enforcing.  Perhaps some are hiding their activities from OHs and then finally they become free agents.  :unknown:
We have no published stats to indicate just how often the silent are logging in, so no context within which active members can perhaps appreciate how many % dip in daily, weekly, monthly etc.  Knowing how many of the 10s of thousands of registered members aren't apparently taking much advantage would be meaningful even if we aren't told how many also look in as guests.

4)  For the most part, at least for the years I've been here, the fear of loss of membership from continued silence has previously triggered seemingly minimal, infrequent, short-lived bursts of contributory posts from only a few "quiet ones".  Of those there are some who toss a crumb every once in a while hoping that will suffice despite being far more active.  Some may well post false events that raise no suspicions, thus protecting their privacy, maintaining access and waving our management on with an "I'm not the punter you're looking for" in fine Kenobi manner.  How many of these really worry about banning?  Could they make do as guests if the access afforded them doesn't lessen?

5)  Hesitant posters are likely those that management are trying to encourage by enforcing better manners.  They're a completely unknown percentage of the silent majority.  We can all be hopeful that many thousands will come into the light.
But how many of them truly value membership such that bans are a suitable stick to discourage silence?  Considering what they can access from outside the perimeter.

6)  Active, sincere contributors of whatever disposition post because they all at least share the belief that give and take is karmicly better for their punting.  Some are easily upset and can retreat into silence.  All of these likely value continued and unimpeded access and are thus most responsive to methods of control.

7)  Temp bans with the subsequent sword of Damocles seems to not only quash overly offensive behaviour it does also seem to reduce participation/contribution by some who have been slapped.  Whether that is more than offset by the uptick in participation of quieter punters hasn't been shown with stats but perhaps (anecdotally) that is what's encouraging Management's current policing of behaviour. 

8)  There is presently no confidential channel of feedback between us and management with which they can actively measure meaningful and sincere opinion.  Polls only get us part way there because people vote in their own interest and are not committed to any subsequent individual action in the absence of irresistible encouragement or unavoidable enforcement.

9)  Adding more categories of banning could complicate administration somewhat, perhaps unnecessarily so.  More or longer rules for UKPers to be cognisant of, those that bother.   :unknown:
Perhaps more records and more to debate if increased tolerance is to be maintained.   :unknown:

10)  People who were banned have been found to have rejoined, sometimes after lengthy periods under their latest guise.  Some rejoin multiple times, paying for each of those enrolments.  Presently previously banned appear to be rejected on rediscovery we don't seem to be told if management challenge a returning offender and can be pursuaded to allow them to stay.  If that happens then it would seem that we already have a functioning but opaque process for clemency.  If Management have means and resource to identify, tag and keep watch on returners currently does it get any easier with changing the current declared practice?

11)  Clearly there are those offences which cannot be forgiven.  There were some expulsions for unruly behaviour between members which otherwise had nothing to do with SPs, there could/should be reason to consider re-admission either under original monniker or a new identity to protect them from victimisation from members (there are those within the community who bear grudges).

12)  I can't recall if banned individuals find they have difficulty viewing the site as guests because their known devices are served "no entry" pages. 

13)  Without more transparency about how temp bans can be policed I don't see how 6 or 12 months off helps.  Punters who are active more than once or twice a year will either "guest" in (if they can), re-register somehow, use an intermediary (search engine, another member, whatever) or use other sites.

Anyway, if we must have more penalties and granularity of temporary punishment then perhaps days, weeks or a month off for bad behaviour will suffice with re-instatement having served time.  Fines by an otherwise opaque judiciary are a bad idea.  Clemency for former perma-banned need only offer them the freedom to subscribe again.  All this "legislation" should be published in the rules.  Re-instatement under previous name, at least for some offenders, might have to be acknowledged so that the community are set straight on the grace to be given by all and perhaps the understanding and/or terms agreed between UKP and the returnee. 

Offline Doc Holliday


Back on topic: keep it simple, respect limitations of the software & mods time, temporary ban is 7 days, full ban is for life, but Head1 to hold right to Royal Pardon.

Action against lurkers is fairly pointless as they can view offline anyway, most of them do.

Thanks an excellent precis of my long winded essay  :D

Offline Liverpool

We've seen various members get numerous temporary bans. They don't change their ways. I don't see any valuable resource going missing from some of the wankers who get banned.

We all know the rules of the forum. It could diminish their impact if banned members are given a reprieve.

Offline PilotMan

How do you know how often they've logged in?  :unknown:

I don't, but you do.

All I can see is when they last logged in.

Online FiveKnuckles


Action against lurkers is fairly pointless as they can view offline anyway, most of them do.

From a site owners point of view it makes a huge difference to the running cost for servers.  Anyone that's been temporary banned or not logged on, will find the reviews are quite limited.  Links and pics are obscured so unless they like jacking off to text, it's always better to have full membership.

Regardless of whether a member pays a sub or made the free membership cut off, some type of 'new classification' would help and if the forum software helps, even better:

New members upto 2 years: shouldn't be pressured to contribute.  These guys will all be paying an annual subscription now.  It's quite a big step to take a first punt and then write about it.

Ghost members: these guys joined before the annual subscription was introduced and hardly logon.  They're just passing by and look in once in a while.  Pretty much can't do anything to these guys.

Lurkers/Leeche these guys joined before the annual subscription was introduced.  They logon frequently to suck in all the info and ask questions yet offer nothing in return.  They get challenged by admin/mods and disappear into the shadows.  These guys should have their 'free accounts' switched to subscription, and warned they will be IP banned if they continue to lurk with a paid subscription.

Medically unable to punt: those that hardly punt due to medical issues have a 'by'.  These guys seem to be forum helpers and eyes/ears for the forum.  Let them live on but they must live by the same etiquette rules.  Once they're medically abled, get back to contributing.

Current banned members list must be huge.   :unknown:  There should not be a full amnesty to pardon everyone.  The rapist, punter snitches and wrong-uns should be banned for life.  Anyone banned for giving git or pettyness will ultimately have their fate decided by the mod/admin that banned them.  They will return on a paying subscription.

Service Providers: the few that are here do contribute a lot of info.  They should remain as honorable members.  New SPs pay until owner/mod/admin decide they've earn a honorable free membership?

Just my 2 pence.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 11:35:07 am by FiveKnuckles »

Offline Cum_again

To be honest the mods see things others don’t…
Let them decide what they can put up with. It’s not like they’re being paid for this is it?

All power to them!

Offline Shadow314

I've voted to keep the full ban permanent - see that as essential for the serious offences particularly those that are a danger to SPs.

The temp 7 day ban seems to work well, but like many of the other comments would see room to add a third option of a 6 month temp ban for less severe items.

Offline PilotMan

A new member is a lurker until he posts so they are the same thing.

I suppose that depends on whether you think that someone who has recently joined and not contributed, is the same as someone who has been a member for more than a couple of years, logs in everyday and never contributes?

I think they are two completely different things, the latter being a lurker and definitely not a new member.

However, only the "management" have a history log and other relevant information about a member, and only they can decode the difference, unless of course a lurker pops his head up over the parapet, self incriminating  :lol:

As for the vote, my thoughts are as I previously mentioned. However, of the choices currently offered, I'm inclined to say forever.

Offline PilotMan

@FiveKnuckles

100% agree with everything you said - summarised my thoughts exactly.


« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 12:42:30 pm by PilotMan »

Offline Doc Holliday

I suppose that depends on whether you think that someone who has recently joined and not contributed, is the same as someone who has been a member for more than a couple of years, logs in everyday and never contributes?

I think they are two completely different things, the latter being a lurker and definitely not a new member.

However, only the "management" have a history log and other relevant information about a member, and only they can decode the difference, unless of course a lurker pops his head up over the parapet, self incriminating  :lol:


I broadly agree with what you are saying, although I would still class everyone who is a member but does not contribute as a lurker. The lurkers who login every day I would class as possible Leeches, but I am splitting terminology hairs  :D

I don't have access to UKP data but based on experience of other punting forums data, only between 15% to 20% of total members have more than 10 posts to their name and around 60 to 70% have no posts at all.

If UKP membership database is 106,000 then you potentially have at least 80,000 records to analyse. A leech popping their head up is the easiest way to weed them.

I am not saying it couldn't be done and among those accounts and given how long UKP has been live, there will be a significant number who have fallen by the wayside (including past contributors) and many who have never logged in more than once, but it is huge amount of work to analyse and begin banning and for little benefit. Once completed it would then become an ongoing process.





« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 01:42:59 pm by Doc Holliday »

Offline Vice Admiral

I think a range of banning periods with associated "sentencing guidelines" would be a useful way to go.
1 week ban for minor transgressions or just to defuse arguments that are escalating.
1 month ban for not so serious transgressions against forum rules - e.g. minor white knighting where the contents of a review is challenged but in a polite manner.
3 month ban for not so serious wind up merchants.
Permanent ban for people who do totally unacceptable things like trying to get free punts in return for positive reviews, people who post reviews which show they have been abusive etc.
In this system the one week and one month bans could be issued by individual mods with no appeal or discussion.
3 month or permanent bans could be reviewed and agreed by two mods before being issued.
I do not think having an appeals process is really practicable - the mods surely do not want to get involved in lengthy exchanges.
I would say that the forum is probably in a better state now than it was a few years ago and generally the bans that get handed out recently seem well deserved based upon the contents of the threads with gave rise to them.

Broadly speaking I would agree with this.  My own post #57 suggested "a seven-day ban for offences at the lowest end of the penal scale, a 28-day ban for offences of middling severity, and a permanent ban for truly vile or offensive behaviour".  However there is no reason, as Pythondan suggests, why temporary bans should not be of whatever period the banner(s) think appropriate.  It would, however, probably be too prescriptive a system to have a "menu" of specific bans for specific offences.  Banners' discretion should apply.

I continue, however, to hold the view that very long "temporary" bans would be pointless, since, as I put it in my earlier post: "I rather doubt if anyone who received a six-month or year-long ban would return anyway.  They would most likely take umbrage and never come back."

In summary, therefore, my view is that temporary bans might be of whatever length the banner or banners see fit, but with a maximum of a month, or at most two.  Offences so serious as to attract a ban longer than two months are surely "permanent ban" offences?


Offline MissWolf

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The cynic in me is waving a flag and wondering of those advocates of a 6 month second chance are those that know if they really posted as they wanted they would get banned so want the option to come back.

Sadly I don't think you will get an honest result to a poll like this as a measure of 'looking after my own interest' will always prevail.

Leapoards can paint themselves stripes but that doesn't change who they are, just how we see them, eventually it rains and the paint wears off!


Online FiveKnuckles

The cynic in me is waving a flag and wondering of those advocates of a 6 month second chance are those that know if they really posted as they wanted they would get banned so want the option to come back.

Sadly I don't think you will get an honest result to a poll like this as a measure of 'looking after my own interest' will always prevail.

Leapoards can paint themselves stripes but that doesn't change who they are, just how we see them, eventually it rains and the paint wears off!

We may be punters but (the majority?) do have ethics.  Everyone voting for 2nd chance are forgiving misdemeanours.   If I were to be classified as the scum of the earth, I don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms  :hi:

*I voted 6 months.  A 12 month ban, I'd expect the guy to have moved on or tried to create a sock puppet
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 02:53:09 pm by FiveKnuckles »