Best non penetrative experience?

[tester123123]

Punters,

Looking for your best non-penetrative experiences? i.e. blowjobs, edging 4 hands massage? sensual, rough, bondage, into it all etc.

[daviemac]

Very strange first post given how long you've been a member, however, why? are you a reporter, researcher or just want some wank material.   

[mr.bluesky]

Very strange first post given how long you've been a member, however, why? are you a reporter, researcher or just want some wank material.   

No doubt he will post his first review when he's found something suitable. ( but don't hold your breath)
 

[Eager Thighs]

How come it says he has zero posts?

[daviemac]

How come it says he has zero posts?

does it matter? 

[standardpostage]

Punters,

Looking for your best non-penetrative experiences? i.e. blowjobs, edging 4 hands massage? sensual, rough, bondage, into it all etc.

Your post / thread.

Etiquette says you go first 

[8MillionDollarMan]

I had the most amazing rimming this week she lapped my asshole like a dog,HTH.

[daviemac]

Your post / thread.

Etiquette says you go first 

More than likely he's a journo so no chance. Either way he needs to answer the question regarding the point of the thread.

[VitIron]

Punters,

Looking for your best non-penetrative experiences? i.e. blowjobs, edging 4 hands massage? sensual, rough, bondage, into it all etc.

It sounds like you're offering all of these.

If so, thanks, but no thanks.

[pbrown355]

I agree with standardpostage. You go first

[DastardlyDick]

Punters,

Looking for your best non-penetrative experiences? i.e. blowjobs, edging 4 hands massage? sensual, rough, bondage, into it all etc.

There's a whole section with reviews of massage places - have you looked there?

[timsussex]

Your post / thread.

Etiquette says you go first 

nicely put !

[Stevelondon]

Best non penetrative experience !!!!!!

Been so many.
Let me think.

Like I said. There’s been a lot but I shall always look back with great fondness on the Philippe Albert chip in 1996. That look on Schmeichels  face.

Oh you just had to be there. 👍🏻

[Chazz]

The best non-penetrative experience I've ever had was a tandem parachute jump. Honestly the best fun you can have with your clothes on.
 

[daviemac]

Best non penetrative experience !!!!!!

Been so many.
Let me think.

Like I said. There’s been a lot but I shall always look back with great fondness on the Philippe Albert chip in 1996. That look on Schmeichels  face.

Oh you just had to be there. 👍🏻

Aye that one and Ferdinand's header off the underside of the bar.   

[MissWolf]

For me it's a toss-up  between a hot air balloon trip, early morning trip over my local area, stunning and scuba diving in Bali which was just breathtaking.

They are stand out cos I don't like heights and I can't swim very well so big personal achievements

[marc_hotsteppa]

Eating my body weight in malteasers 

[JontyR]

More than likely he's a journo so no chance. Either way he needs to answer the question regarding the point of the thread.

You never know...it might be Bill Clinton looking to see what he could get away with.

[Ivor Hunch]

Istanbul

[Stevelondon]

Istanbul

Nein, it’s ein cow.

[shed]

Best non penetrative experience !!!!!!

Been so many.
Let me think.

Like I said. There’s been a lot but I shall always look back with great fondness on the Philippe Albert chip in 1996. That look on Schmeichels  face.

Oh you just had to be there. 👍🏻

The 95/96 game at SJP was even better when Cantona scored the only goal which buried the Toons chance of winning silverware. Together with Keegan's rant. I was there to see it. The feeling was way better than sex, penetrative or not 

,,

[Spacecowb0y]

My first kiss.
It was magical
She became my wife
25 years on, we still kiss.

[alabama1]

My first kiss.
It was magical
She became my wife
25 years on, we still kiss.

But obviously she doesn't mean Jack Shit to you if you are on here, punting 

[fatboy]

But obviously she doesn't mean Jack Shit to you if you are on here, punting 

Yes, but that's all they do hence his punting 
Best non penetrative experience ? Bacon sarney.....

[johnd80]

hand job while doing a deep french kissing or  face sitting. 

[johnd80]

back in 2020 during the pandemic ,I was visiting a massage place.There I found a girl called  zaida in shooters hill. she was from slovakia and 24 year old blond white girl  very beautiful who was studying here.She was studying massage techniques.It was a flat and had a normal double bed.There were 4 good looking women working there.She was the most attractive one.Her skin was gold like colour.she just charged £90 per hour.gave me very good body to body massage .30 mins back massage and 15 mins front side body to body .and 15 mins hand job.She was not doing penetration or blow job.But  I asked whether I can lick her pussy.She asked me extra £60 and I paid her.Her pussy was fresh and clean as she was not an escort.In 69 postion she did hand job while I was licking her cunt.That was best experience.She told me she has a boyfriend.But he did not know she was doing this.If he found he would beat her.

There was another experience in 2022, with 23 year old thai student who was doing part time escort job in lewisham.Her name was Lisa and she was the most beautiful thai girl I have ever met.She more like stunning  south korean girl.Her every thing was good.She was kissing like a girl friend not like an  escort.I did hand job while she was face sitting me. Other one was doing hand job while DFK with nicole thai in canary wharf.

You can do many non penetrative sex like doing hand job deep french kissing ,face sitting,fingering pussy or  rubbing  cock against pussy without condom.

around 2014 I went to see a beautiful girl who was charging £400 per hour,for sex It was just a fake booking to see her,very beautiful hungarian girl.I did not have £400  with me.Therefore I told her if she stay fully naked for 30mins showing her body and let me do gentle touching her and I can do the hand job while watching her naked body for discounted price.With my surprise she agreed to do it for £100 per 30mins.But no sex blow job ,finger her pussy.It was more like strip tease experience.

[marc_hotsteppa]

back in 2020 during the pandemic ,I was visiting a massage place.There I found a girl called  zaida in shooters hill. she was from slovakia and 24 year old blond white girl  very beautiful who was studying here.She was studying massage techniques.It was a flat and had a normal double bed.There were 4 good looking women working there.She was the most attractive one.Her skin was gold like colour.she just charged £90 per hour.gave me very good body to body massage .30 mins back massage and 15 mins front side body to body .and 15 mins hand job.She was not doing penetration or blow job.But  I asked whether I can lick her pussy.She asked me extra £60 and I paid her.Her pussy was fresh and clean as she was not an escort.In 69 postion she did hand job while I was licking her cunt.That was best experience.She told me she has a boyfriend.But he did not know she was doing this.If he found he would beat her.

There was another experience in 2022, with 23 year old thai student who was doing part time escort job in lewisham.Her name was Lisa and she was the most beautiful thai girl I have ever met.She more like stunning  south korean girl.Her every thing was good.She was kissing like a girl friend not like an  escort.I did hand job while she was face sitting me. Other one was doing hand job while DFK with nicole thai in canary wharf.

You can do many non penetrative sex like doing hand job deep french kissing ,face sitting,fingering pussy or  rubbing  cock against pussy without condom.

around 2014 I went to see a beautiful girl who was charging £400 per hour,for sex It was just a fake booking to see her,very beautiful hungarian girl.I did not have £400  with me.Therefore I told her if she stay fully naked for 30mins showing her body and let me do gentle touching her and I can do the hand job while watching her naked body for discounted price.With my surprise she agreed to do it for £100 per 30mins.But no sex blow job ,finger her pussy.It was more like strip tease experience.

I've highlighted the bits in bold where you make yourself look like a complete cunt.

Well done 

[daviemac]

back in 2020 during the pandemic ,I was visiting a massage place.There I found a girl called  zaida in shooters hill. she was from slovakia and 24 year old blond white girl  very beautiful who was studying here.She was studying massage techniques.It was a flat and had a normal double bed.There were 4 good looking women working there.She was the most attractive one.Her skin was gold like colour.she just charged £90 per hour.gave me very good body to body massage .30 mins back massage and 15 mins front side body to body .and 15 mins hand job.She was not doing penetration or blow job.But  I asked whether I can lick her pussy.She asked me extra £60 and I paid her.Her pussy was fresh and clean as she was not an escort.In 69 postion she did hand job while I was licking her cunt.That was best experience.She told me she has a boyfriend.But he did not know she was doing this.If he found he would beat her.

There was another experience in 2022, with 23 year old thai student who was doing part time escort job in lewisham.Her name was Lisa and she was the most beautiful thai girl I have ever met.She more like stunning  south korean girl.Her every thing was good.She was kissing like a girl friend not like an  escort.I did hand job while she was face sitting me. Other one was doing hand job while DFK with nicole thai in canary wharf.

You can do many non penetrative sex like doing hand job deep french kissing ,face sitting,fingering pussy or  rubbing  cock against pussy without condom.

around 2014 I went to see a beautiful girl who was charging £400 per hour,for sex It was just a fake booking to see her,very beautiful hungarian girl.I did not have £400  with me.Therefore I told her if she stay fully naked for 30mins showing her body and let me do gentle touching her and I can do the hand job while watching her naked body for discounted price.With my surprise she agreed to do it for £100 per 30mins.But no sex blow job ,finger her pussy.It was more like strip tease experience.

I don't understand you mate, you've been far more descriptive in this thread that has been flagged as started by either a journalist, researcher or wanker than you have in any of your 'reviews'.

If what you say is true and you are not a fantasist you are showing yourself to be a liability to the punting world.

"Her pussy was fresh and clean as she was not an escort", - really??? I'm sure the majority of escorts would take umbrage at that remark.

"rubbing  cock against pussy without condom."  that will get you banned, blacklisted and reported on ClientEye and possibly UglyMugs by any decent escort.

"I went to see a beautiful girl who was charging £400 per hour,for sex It was just a fake booking to see her,very beautiful hungarian girl.I did not have £400  with me."  WTF the only thing to say about that is it's a cunt's trick that gives decent punters a bad name and will also get you reported on ClientEye and SAAFE

[johnd80]

I don't understand you mate, you've been far more descriptive in this thread that has been flagged as started by either a journalist, researcher or wanker than you have in any of your 'reviews'.

If what you say is true and you are not a fantasist you are showing yourself to be a liability to the punting world.

"Her pussy was fresh and clean as she was not an escort", - really??? I'm sure the majority of escorts would take umbrage at that remark.

"rubbing  cock against pussy without condom."  that will get you banned, blacklisted and reported on ClientEye and possibly UglyMugs by any decent escort.

"I went to see a beautiful girl who was charging £400 per hour,for sex It was just a fake booking to see her,very beautiful hungarian girl.I did not have £400  with me."  WTF the only thing to say about that is it's a cunt's trick that gives decent punters a bad name and will also get you reported on ClientEye and SAAFE

I did not mention about all the escorts.There are escorts who do not wash between clients.I have seen some  escorts , you cannot do licking as smell coming.Even some escorts told me they have get lot of guys and they cant give blow job as of smell their cock area.

I did not say rubbing cock against escorts.But many girls I have met not in here but different part of the world.They were friends not escorts.So I trust them,

About the that lady I want to make an offer to her.I could not afford £400 per hour as I was not a foor baller. some times I bargain with escort to include the extras even before meet them,They told me to come and  meet face to face and they can decide.

[daviemac]

I did not mention about all the escorts.There are escorts who do not wash between clients.I have seen some  escorts , you cannot do licking as smell coming.Even some escorts told me they have get lot of guys and they cant give blow job as of smell their cock area.

I did not say rubbing cock against escorts.But many girls I have met not in here but different part of the world.They were friends not escorts.So I trust them,

About the that lady I want to make an offer to her.I could not afford £400 per hour as I was not a foor baller. some times I bargain with escort to include the extras even before meet them,They told me to come and  meet face to face and they can decide.

You’re on a punting forum mate discussing paid sex.

That's a first, I've been in this game for longer than I care to think about and not once has an escort told me to turn up so the can negotiate the rate, from reading other forums it's "that's the price pay it or fuck off". 

[MissWolf]

I did not mention about all the escorts.There are escorts who do not wash between clients.I have seen some  escorts , you cannot do licking as smell coming.Even some escorts told me they have get lot of guys and they cant give blow job as of smell their cock area.

I did not say rubbing cock against escorts.But many girls I have met not in here but different part of the world.They were friends not escorts.So I trust them,

About the that lady I want to make an offer to her.I could not afford £400 per hour as I was not a foor baller. some times I bargain with escort to include the extras even before meet them,They told me to come and  meet face to face and they can decide.

Where the fuck to begin with you......I try really hard to be nice on here, to not swear to much and not be rude or insulting but fuck me you are some special kind of rude, insulting, boundary pushing cunt the likes of which give punters and forums like this a bad name.

Can't do licking because of the smell can be caused by a condition called Bacterial Vaginosis and can be caused by the over use of scented washing products,  it's a bacterial imbalance.
Cheesy cock on the other hand is just a lazy twat who doesn't pull his foreskin back to wash it.

Rubbing or frotting as its knows is no different to bareback and I would tryst a civvy less than trusting an escort any day, you are a fool if you think some random girl you pull in a bar is safer or if a friend is safer, any normal punter doesn't do it.

You don't need to be a football player to afford £400 an hour, go check out the London discussions and look at the no limits thread. To make a booking and turn up knowing you don't have the funds for that booking is 1000% a cunts trick and makes you one of the worst kind of boundary pushing that's going.

You have lost that lady income but more importantly you most likely made her feel uncomfortable and intimidated, you haggled in the room with a lone female to get her to do what you wanted knowing that she may not feel able to ask you to leave.

Have you stopped to think that just possibly she agreed not because she needed the money but because she had had a bad experience in the past with a guy who haggled and she tried to chuck him out, maybe he turned nasty, maybe he forced her, maybe she went into survival mode and thought if I just give him what he wants he won't hit me, or rape me, maybe just maybe you are the utter cunt here and totally in the wrong 

[Stevelondon]

But obviously she doesn't mean Jack Shit to you if you are on here, punting 

I’m not sure there is any call for that kind of remark.
I bet there are an awful lot of married blokes out there who care deeply for their other halves, be it wife or live in gf etc.

I can speak of one who was a mate of mine, now sadly passed. His disabled wife gave him permission to punt . Just as long as she did not know anything about it.

Just cos some blokes punt does not mean they don’t care.

[nuckingfuts]

Where the fuck to begin with you......I try really hard to be nice on here, to not swear to much and not be rude or insulting but fuck me you are some special kind of rude, insulting, boundary pushing cunt the likes of which give punters and forums like this a bad name.

You don't need to be a football player to afford £400 an hour, go check out the London discussions and look at the no limits thread. To make a booking and turn up knowing you don't have the funds for that booking is 1000% a cunts trick and makes you one of the worst kind of boundary pushing that's going.

You have lost that lady income but more importantly you most likely made her feel uncomfortable and intimidated, you haggled in the room with a lone female to get her to do what you wanted knowing that she may not feel able to ask you to leave.

Have you stopped to think that just possibly she agreed not because she needed the money but because she had had a bad experience in the past with a guy who haggled and she tried to chuck him out, maybe he turned nasty, maybe he forced her, maybe she went into survival mode and thought if I just give him what he wants he won't hit me, or rape me, maybe just maybe you are the utter cunt here and totally in the wrong 

The lady was withdrawing consent the moment the supposed “haggling”/“negotiating” began.

Call it what it is - r*pe

[FLYING BLUE]

back in 2020 during the pandemic ,I was visiting a massage place.There I found a girl called  zaida in shooters hill. she was from slovakia and 24 year old blond white girl  very beautiful who was studying here.She was studying massage techniques.It was a flat and had a normal double bed.There were 4 good looking women working there.She was the most attractive one.Her skin was gold like colour.she just charged £90 per hour.gave me very good body to body massage .30 mins back massage and 15 mins front side body to body .and 15 mins hand job.She was not doing penetration or blow job.But  I asked whether I can lick her pussy.She asked me extra £60 and I paid her.Her pussy was fresh and clean as she was not an escort.In 69 postion she did hand job while I was licking her cunt.That was best experience.She told me she has a boyfriend.But he did not know she was doing this.If he found he would beat her.

There was another experience in 2022, with 23 year old thai student who was doing part time escort job in lewisham.Her name was Lisa and she was the most beautiful thai girl I have ever met.She more like stunning  south korean girl.Her every thing was good.She was kissing like a girl friend not like an  escort.I did hand job while she was face sitting me. Other one was doing hand job while DFK with nicole thai in canary wharf.

You can do many non penetrative sex like doing hand job deep french kissing ,face sitting,fingering pussy or  rubbing  cock against pussy without condom.

around 2014 I went to see a beautiful girl who was charging £400 per hour,for sex It was just a fake booking to see her,very beautiful hungarian girl.I did not have £400  with me.Therefore I told her if she stay fully naked for 30mins showing her body and let me do gentle touching her and I can do the hand job while watching her naked body for discounted price.With my surprise she agreed to do it for £100 per 30mins.But no sex blow job ,finger her pussy.It was more like strip tease experience.

Words fail me so I'll just use an emoji to sum this up - 

[johnd80]

Where the fuck to begin with you......I try really hard to be nice on here, to not swear to much and not be rude or insulting but fuck me you are some special kind of rude, insulting, boundary pushing cunt the likes of which give punters and forums like this a bad name.

Can't do licking because of the smell can be caused by a condition called Bacterial Vaginosis and can be caused by the over use of scented washing products,  it's a bacterial imbalance.
Cheesy cock on the other hand is just a lazy twat who doesn't pull his foreskin back to wash it.

Rubbing or frotting as its knows is no different to bareback and I would tryst a civvy less than trusting an escort any day, you are a fool if you think some random girl you pull in a bar is safer or if a friend is safer, any normal punter doesn't do it.

You don't need to be a football player to afford £400 an hour, go check out the London discussions and look at the no limits thread. To make a booking and turn up knowing you don't have the funds for that booking is 1000% a cunts trick and makes you one of the worst kind of boundary pushing that's going.

You have lost that lady income but more importantly you most likely made her feel uncomfortable and intimidated, you haggled in the room with a lone female to get her to do what you wanted knowing that she may not feel able to ask you to leave.

Have you stopped to think that just possibly she agreed not because she needed the money but because she had had a bad experience in the past with a guy who haggled and she tried to chuck him out, maybe he turned nasty, maybe he forced her, maybe she went into survival mode and thought if I just give him what he wants he won't hit me, or rape me, maybe just maybe you are the utter cunt here and totally in the wrong 

But when I saw  girls doing only body to body massage,They are always fresh and clean and they take time to have a shower, apply cream make up again  etc, But some escorts are not present them fresh and clean,they dont shower and dont  make apply cream between clients, I am using cheap priced  girls  from viva street,most of them  do it for short period and they dont care about clients and they want quick  money and leave to their countries.We canniot even leave feed back as they dont care about it .

[daviemac]

But when I saw  girls doing only body to body massage,They are always fresh and clean and they take time to have a shower, apply cream make up again  etc, But some escorts are not present them fresh and clean,they dont shower and dont  make apply cream between clients, I am using cheap priced  girls  from viva street,most of them  do it for short period and they dont care about clients and they want quick  money and leave to their countries.We canniot even leave feed back as they dont care about it .

I would say you are yet another one who has totally misjudged this site, the majority of members are first and foremost decent human beings as well as being punters and as such, as no doubt you can tell from the reaction to your post, do not condone in any way what you describe, it's wrong on so many levels.

A couple of posts from escorts on Escortinhub on a thread about haggling.

Not at the front door or in person no but I have slammed the door in a few faces over the years due to being previously banned or not reading my profile properly and thinking I'll just service them because their here now

Had a haggler by txt yesterday begging for a tenner off "unfortunately you missed my January sale prices are as displayed" still asked for a discount so I've banned them now not interested in servicing someone who doesn't listen to me!

I've told this before but I'll tell it again. Not at the door, but he rang to ask my prices for half an hour. It was £80, he informed me he only had £50 and would I accept that. I told him no, my prices are my prices and I don't budget. Put the phone down and a little while he rang back and agreed to my price and booked. When he arrived and we got to the bedroom he handed me the money and with a grin said it's £50, it's all I have. So with a grin as big as his, I showed him the door.

You'll notice the second one was someone turning up without enough money.

[johnd80]

The lady was withdrawing consent the moment the supposed “haggling”/“negotiating” began.

Call it what it is - r*pe

nope, when I one day had text message with girl about 69,I told her I cannot pay for it.She asked me to come and we can figure something out about it.I paid for ow and she did not charge for licking

[Strawberry]

nope, when I one day had text message with girl about 69,I told her I cannot pay for it.She asked me to come and we can figure something out about it.I paid for ow and she did not charge for licking

Were you aware of her fees when you contacted her?

[jamiekinkxxx]

My first kiss.
It was magical
She became my wife
25 years on, we still kiss.

 

[jamiekinkxxx]

I am not sure johnd80 is the brightest spark 

[aquilla]

I’m not sure there is any call for that kind of remark.
I bet there are an awful lot of married blokes out there who care deeply for their other halves, be it wife or live in gf etc.

I can speak of one who was a mate of mine, now sadly passed. His disabled wife gave him permission to punt . Just as long as she did not know anything about it.

Just cos some blokes punt does not mean they don’t care.

Well said. Totally agree with you Stevelondon.

[johnd80]

Were you aware of her fees when you contacted her?

she has not mentioned  about it as extra.But she has mentioned about DFK and OW as extra.

[daviemac]

she has not mentioned  about it as extra.But she has mentioned about DFK and OW as extra.

Strawberry means did you know she charged £400 before you made the fake booking with no intention of paying that amount. Reading your post you did know what she charged but turned up anyway with the intention of haggling.

[Strawberry]

Strawberry means did you know she charged £400 before you made the fake booking with no intention of paying that amount. Reading your post you did know what she charged but turned up anyway with the intention of haggling.

I wasn't referring to the £400 SP, I quoted another incident where he said he told the SP at texting enquiry point that he couldn't afford her fees. He claims this SP told him to still come over, that they would work something out. Can you see the post I quoted?

[daviemac]

I wasn't referring to the £400 SP, I quoted another incident where he said he told the SP at texting enquiry point that he couldn't afford her fees. He claims this SP told him to still come over, that they would work something out. Can you see the post I quoted?

I see what you mean now Ruth, but he still comes across as a chancer who knows what the rates are when reading the advert but wants to turn up anyway to get services at the price he can afford.  Why else would he be contacting the SP only to say he can't afford it, I'm sure the rates will be there on the advert he got the contact details from.

[Strawberry]

Strawberry means did you know she charged £400 before you made the fake booking with no intention of paying that amount. Reading your post you did know what she charged but turned up anyway with the intention of haggling.

No this isn't what I meant, to me it's clear he knew about the £400 fee and was completely out of order.

However he goes on to argue haggling can sometimes be suggested by the SP, giving the example I quoted. My question is when he contacted the SP in the incident I quote, telling her at point of enquiry (during a text conversation) he couldn't afford her fees, did he already know her fees and know he couldn't afford the fee?

[MissWolf]

No this isn't what I meant, to me it's clear he knew about the £400 fee and was completely out of order.

However he goes on to argue haggling can sometimes be suggested by the SP, giving the example I quoted. My question is when he contacted the SP in the incident I quote, telling her at point of enquiry (during a text conversation) he couldn't afford her fees, did he already know her fees and know he couldn't afford the fee?

I would suggest that when he contacts an SP he knows exactly what her prices are and that he can't afford them or the added extra.
He is what we in this industry know as a boundary pushing chancery
If you contact enough cheap viva girls and badger them at some point someone will give in is it appears his modus operandi 

[Strawberry]

I would suggest that when he contacts an SP he knows exactly what her prices are and that he can't afford them or the added extra.
He is what we in this industry know as a boundary pushing chancery
If you contact enough cheap viva girls and badger them at some point someone will give in is it appears his modus operandi 

I had an idea he was using the argument to justify his approach, build some sort of belief it's ok. Also some punters just won't take no for an answer, just keep on texting/phoning/whatever (but in my experience tends to happen the most with texting) so even though you are not going to accept unless or until you decide to block your phone is pinging away with the badgering. Sometimes enquirers have done this despite me saying I am fully booked, I am supposed to find time as well as offer a reduction? Can feel like, become like harassment.

[johnd80]

No this isn't what I meant, to me it's clear he knew about the £400 fee and was completely out of order.

However he goes on to argue haggling can sometimes be suggested by the SP, giving the example I quoted. My question is when he contacted the SP in the incident I quote, telling her at point of enquiry (during a text conversation) he couldn't afford her fees, did he already know her fees and know he couldn't afford the fee?

I have met some girls put a price and then quoted as everything included and when you meet face to face they give different quote by asking extras.It is a trap to attract customers.They waste our time as well.One day I went to see a girl. she has photoshopped and not worth paying extras she was  asking.I told her I am not prepared to to pay extra everything must be included.She refused and I walked  away,

[johnd80]

I would suggest that when he contacts an SP he knows exactly what her prices are and that he can't afford them or the added extra.
He is what we in this industry know as a boundary pushing chancery
If you contact enough cheap viva girls and badger them at some point someone will give in is it appears his modus operandi 

yes if she says nor bargain,then I dont go there.