Another trafficking story in today’s papers and on Ch4 now

[Crackpot11]

This is why I only see indies.

I agree. We all know it goes on and there is no 100% way to ensure an escort hasn’t been trafficked but seeing an independent British women is my go to.

[thenicz]

I watched it all, the amount that Viner made from his illicit empire, must have beeen well worth the punishment, I imagine he's out now and the chances of Uncle Bill uncovering all of his fortune are like me finding a teeenage girl who'll give me everything for love rather than money. The others featured got suspended sentences. Not sure but with time served after his arrest in Barcelona, Mark Viner, I would imagine with time off for good behaviour is probably out already

[lillythesavage]

I watched it all, the amount that Viner made from his illicit empire, must have beeen well worth the punishment, I imagine he's out now and the chances of Uncle Bill uncovering all of his fortune are like me finding a teeenage girl who'll give me everything for love rather than money. The others featured got suspended sentences. Not sure but with time served after his arrest in Barcelona, Mark Viner, I would imagine with time off for good behaviour is probably out already

You would be surprised at the time and effort plod put into recovering proceeds of crime, they leave no stone unturned, if only they would put the same time and effort into crime prevention and getting out on the streets.

Don,t give up lol, on finding the one that gives you everything for nothing, not a teen but 21, maybe not for love either, we just get on very well, but I found one.

[Ghost89]

He’ll pick up where he left off. Whether that be trafficking or smuggling again. That’s all people like him know. And the risk/reward ratio is worth it to him when your making that kind of money. And they’ll have learned new lessons from the mistakes he made that got him locked up.

[Torhandle]

Just watched the show and I’m really surprised they haven’t focused on Chinese massage shops. Without a doubt that is where some girls are ‘trafficked’. But there are also plenty of places where it is clear it’s what the girls want to do to earn some decent money. As already mentioned you don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out which places are too dodgy to frequent.

[Al]

What is interesting is that someone had it in for him by delivering lots of intel to the Police.

[paul_tall_]

What is interesting is that someone had it in for him by delivering lots of intel to the Police.

Yes that was very interesting. It makes you wonder whether he was completely under the radar until that point. Obviously they didn't give out all information and i still cant work out his charge sheet which was something like 2 counts of trafficking, running a brothel from his 3 penthouse flats in Cheltenham both of which he pleaded guilty to and some other points. The program implied he was operating on a far bigger scale across the county and there were mentions of numerous other girls from places other than Brazil at one point he was arriving back after a day trip to Amsterdam. At one point it almost came across that he was facilitating the girls arrival into the UK (inc most Brazillian girls), providing accommodation having the other guy set up their aw profiles/photos/blogs/reviews (inc I guess on here) /money collection and the woman to manage them. I presume that 2 of the girls must have provided damning evidence re trafficking hence why only 2 counts could be brought against him and no other links to him owning the other brothels around the country. That then makes you wonder whether they are investigating a larger chain or whether further charges can be brought against him. No doubt the Spanish authorities must have similar questions.

Irc they seemed to mention he had been known re other activities in the past but the amount of money they seemed to imply seems small in comparison with his lifestyle.

It does make you wonder if he is just a UK front man for a wider organisation and was not the top of the tree thats based elsewhere

[Al]

Anyone who has done any criminal investigation work will tell you there is a big difference between what you probably know is happening and what you can prove - its usually down to being able to get evidence in a useable format in court.

they had to show the chain between the person being transported into the UK and doing sex work which they were only able to do with 2 girls - i think they discussed 4 or 5 girls as possibilities. I suspect there were many other girls to which they never gathered evidence.

[standardpostage]

Interesting series. I thought it showed that crimes does pay.
Sentences were quite lenient in my opinion.
But, get rid of one pimp, and another replaces him / her straight away.
Hard to stop the worlds oldest profession.
Anybody who did not know about "Adultwork" will know about it now.
Must admit though modern slavery in all its forms is very bad.
Watched it on Channel 4. All 4. Three episodes.

[whoya.kiddin]

I was very interested to hear Frankie Miren talking on the radio about her experience of sex work and making the case for the complete decriminalisation of prostitution. I recognised the world she talked about, unlike the 'Taken' inspired white slavery fantasy in the C4 "documentary." 

[Home Alone]

I was very interested to hear Frankie Miren talking on the radio about her experience of sex work and making the case for the complete decriminalisation of prostitution. I recognised the world she talked about, unlike the 'Taken' inspired white slavery fantasy in the C4 "documentary."

Which radio station was that on, whoya? If it was the Beeb, the rest of us should be able to catch it on BBC Sounds.

[petermisc]

I was very interested to hear Frankie Miren talking on the radio about her experience of sex work and making the case for the complete decriminalisation of prostitution. I recognised the world she talked about, unlike the 'Taken' inspired white slavery fantasy in the C4 "documentary."

There was a piece on the radio yesterday about how HSBC is providing bank accounts to those in desperate need, in order to give them a start up the ladder to getting a job and place to live.  One of those interviewed was a lass (I forget which EE country she was from), who went on a holiday abroad with what she thought was her boyfriend, only when she got there he and his mates bundled her into the back of a lorry and sent her to the UK as a sex worker.  As an illegal immigrant with no identity documents and no money, she did not want to go to the police.  The "white slave trade" may not be the whole story, there are many WGs doing so entirely of their own choice, but it is far from a fantasy.

However, there are laws against treating people in this way.  There is no need to criminalise the whole sex trade because of it - on that basis, the government might as well ban all lorry moves into the UK because some are being used for illegal purposes.

[whoya.kiddin]

Which radio station was that on, whoya? If it was the Beeb, the rest of us should be able to catch it on BBC Sounds.

R4 women's hour.

[whoya.kiddin]

There was a piece on the radio yesterday about how HSBC is providing bank accounts to those in desperate need, in order to give them a start up the ladder to getting a job and place to live.  One of those interviewed was a lass (I forget which EE country she was from), who went on a holiday abroad with what she thought was her boyfriend, only when she got there he and his mates bundled her into the back of a lorry and sent her to the UK as a sex worker.  As an illegal immigrant with no identity documents and no money, she did not want to go to the police.  The "white slave trade" may not be the whole story, there are many WGs doing so entirely of their own choice, but it is far from a fantasy.

However, there are laws against treating people in this way.  There is no need to criminalise the whole sex trade because of it - on that basis, the government might as well ban all lorry moves into the UK because some are being used for illegal purposes.

I am not saying it does not happen, rather that it is like refusing to go to restaurants because film of a waiter spitting in the food.  The abducted/forced/enslaved story line is highly unusual and being used to paint sex work, SP's and punters alike by those in a moral crusade and with no interest in the truth of the matter.

[Al]

I am not sure its that rare

If you look at the data table links in the report below, there were over 1000 referrals for sexual exploitation last year.......and those are the ones reported properly to the National referral mechanism

External Link/Members Only

[whoya.kiddin]

I am not sure its that rare

If you look at the data table links in the report below, there were over 1000 referrals for sexual exploitation last year.......and those are the ones reported properly to the National referral mechanism

External Link/Members Only

Reading the report over 70% of the referrals were men...

I have been punting for 10 years.  I have seen plenty of sex workers and a fair few who clearly did not like the job.  I havenever met one I thought was being forced to work against her will.

[Al]

Reading the report over 70% of the referrals were men...

I have been punting for 10 years.  I have seen plenty of sex workers and a fair few who clearly did not like the job.  I havenever met one I thought was being forced to work against her will.

But the point is that is totally irrelevant and not a good indicator of whether someone is being exploited. its well known than many people who are victims of slavery will not work with the authorities of tell the authorities anything - why do you think as SP would tell you or give you any indication. i think many people on her assume a person who is being exploited is in a right state - they may not necessarily be so.

working against your will is not the only thing - its whether you are working too long hours, seeing more customers than you want, being paid a proper wage etc

[whoya.kiddin]

But the point is that is totally irrelevant and not a good indicator of whether someone is being exploited. its well known than many people who are victims of slavery will not work with the authorities of tell the authorities anything - why do you think as SP would tell you or give you any indication. i think many people on her assume a person who is being exploited is in a right state - they may not necessarily be so.

working against your will is not the only thing - its whether you are working too long hours, seeing more customers than you want, being paid a proper wage etc

I am intrigued about your experience of the world of work; it sounds completely different to mine.  There are plenty of low paid jobs which routinely subject their workers to unconfortable, dangerous, insanitary, demeaning and exhausting working conditions.  Try being a dispatch rider, short-order chef or driving a furniture delivery van. The truth is the vast majority of SP's sell sex because it is relatively easy, well paid and they cannot earn anything like the money doing something else - not because some Russian mobster keeps them chained to a radiator.

[Al]

I am intrigued about your experience of the world of work; it sounds completely different to mine.  There are plenty of low paid jobs which routinely subject their workers to unconfortable, dangerous, insanitary, demeaning and exhausting working conditions.  Try being a dispatch rider, short-order chef or driving a furniture delivery van. The truth is the vast majority of SP's sell sex because it is relatively easy, well paid and they cannot earn anything like the money doing something else - not because some Russian mobster keeps them chained to a radiator.

you are equating two extremes (i.e. a normal job which anyone can do and leave when they want) and those who are flogged for 23hours and kept under lock and chain

The reality is that the sex workers who are trafficked or in someway subject to modern slavery will be somewhere in the middle to upper end of that scale. the key point is that many of them are either brought here/misled into coming here or once they are have control to make choice limited by the people in control - the difference is those people don't have the same control or freedom over their lives as we do.

this doesn't apply to just sex work - its rampant - whether its people working on farms or labourers for rogue traders.

[PumpDump]

It is very hard to tell if a girl has been trafficked into the UK.  My rule of thumb is to ask myself how did the girl raise the money to get here, rent the accommodation she is in, and all the other costs associated with getting to and working in the UK.   And how much control has she over what she is doing, is she doing her own advertising or is someone else doing it for her, is someone else controlling her bookings, and suchlike.  The more red flags, the more likely that she was trafficked.

Why are people so obsessed with trafficked girls? How is a trafficked girl any different to a UK girl born living in poverty who feels she has no choice other than to sell her body to make ends meet?

[Al]

Freedom of choice

A person who does it but hates it but can quit and work somewhere else is different from someone who is trapped or controlled (over and above a normal employee/employer relationship).

Some of the answers exactly demonstrate why running a brothel is illegal and why the definition of people trafficking does not have a requirement to prove a person is working against their will.

[lillythesavage]

Why are people so obsessed with trafficked girls? How is a trafficked girl any different to a UK girl born living in poverty who feels she has no choice other than to sell her body to make ends meet?

I cannot believe you typed that, and had a need to ask that question

The obsession is not on trafficked women, but having as much knowledge as possible as punters to avoid them. Though reading reviews in London of some MR Lee Chinese places, some do not give two hoots.

If you think UK girls only sell sex because they are born into poverty you are so wrong, not everyone has the mind set and ability to meet strangers for sex, I see a 25 year old, with a very good job, her own flat in a very expensive SW postcode, is still studying to better herself and comes from a very well to do family, she does it because she can and it turns her on.

Poverty stricken girls may well take that road at times, but girls from any background are just as capable for many different reasons.

[scutty brown]

Why are people so obsessed with trafficked girls? How is a trafficked girl any different to a UK girl born living in poverty who feels she has no choice other than to sell her body to make ends meet?

I'll give you two recent examples which the press haven't reported on yet. Both Asian, but the same circumstances can apply to almost any nationality
In one case the girls were found imprisoned in a filthy derelict room locked from the outside, door only opened to let punters in/out, expected to work 24/7. Beaten and denied food if the punter wasn't happy.
The other was a single girl who fell victim to a loan swindle, was flown to the UK to work as a cleaner to repay the debt. On arrival  she was sold to a gang who told her she was now a sex worker. She refused, they gang raped her until she agreed.

Neither case is unusual

[simon07]

Pretty sure they will have a direct line into AW. It looked like they had a spreadsheet open with a lot of girls verification pics.

Just wondering how to duplicate such a spreadsheet, anyone done it?

[Al]

Just wondering how to duplicate such a spreadsheet, anyone done it?

that data will have been provided by AW to the Police.
i dont think the verification pics are public at all now

[scutty brown]

Just wondering how to duplicate such a spreadsheet, anyone done it?

probably start here

External Link/Members Only

[Barclay Spank]

You know why the documentary is called 'Taken', don't you. It's because there's a film starring Liam Neeson called Taken. In the story his daughter is kidnapped and forced into prostitution.

In the documentary nobody is taken. The internationally recognized definition of trafficking involves coercion and none of the women in the documentary were coerced. British law defines trafficking differently.

They don't tell you that the women are deported. They don't tell you that in brothel raids the police take their money and keep it.

This is what Molly Smith and Juno Mac have in their book 'Revolting Prostitutes'.

"As a result, the theft of sex workers' money in police raids on brothels is routine and goes beyond the mere confiscating the occasional eighty pounds. In October 2016, when the police raided massage parlours in Soho and Chinatown, London, and took seventeen women to deportation centres, they also removed thirty-five thousand pounds. They even took money from individual women's lockers. Sex worker Janice had thirteen thousand pounds taken from her in a brothel raid and it was never returned to her, even after she was found not guilty: 'They even tried to take my home. I was left with nothing after a lifetime of hard work. I'm not young anymore and don't know how I'll manage. My life has been turned upside down.' Anti-prostitution policing thus becomes legalised theft."

[Al]

If the money is made in a brothel then its proceeds of crime - end of.

That is before you even start getting into the difficulties of whether its the pimps money or the SPs money (of which some may later go to the pimp) / and how to even calculate that

There is a moral question of whether an SP should get some of the money back but as its proceeds of crime I am not sure it is even open to the authorities to give the money back

broadly speaking its a situation i support as you have to discourage and have the power to deal with the dodgy types.

[daviemac]

If the money is made in a brothel then its proceeds of crime - end of.

That is before you even start getting into the difficulties of whether its the pimps money or the SPs money (of which some may later go to the pimp) / and how to even calculate that

There is a moral question of whether an SP should get some of the money back but as its proceeds of crime I am not sure it is even open to the authorities to give the money back

broadly speaking its a situation i support as you have to discourage and have the power to deal with the dodgy types.

FFS yet another one posting a load of bollocks and stating it as fact. 

It is NOT illegal to work in a brothel, it is NOT illegal for a punter to use a brothel, provided the SP isn't underage, coerced or trafficked. So, as there is no crime, any money the escort earns cannot be subject to a proceeds of crime order.

The people who run the brothel are the only ones doing anything illegal.

Try reading the information given on the CPS website I linked to above.

Edit

Almost forgot   -  end of. 

[Barclay Spank]

If the money is made in a brothel then its proceeds of crime - end of.

That is before you even start getting into the difficulties of whether its the pimps money or the SPs money (of which some may later go to the pimp) / and how to even calculate that

There is a moral question of whether an SP should get some of the money back but as its proceeds of crime I am not sure it is even open to the authorities to give the money back

broadly speaking its a situation i support as you have to discourage and have the power to deal with the dodgy types.

If there is money in a woman's handbag the police should not be taking it. If she is not involved in the running of the brothel then she hasn't committed a crime. Prostitution is not illegal. It is not illegal to be a prostitute. If I hand over 100 pounds to a sex worker at a brothel I haven't committed a crime and she hasn't committed a crime. If she hands 50 pounds of it to someone running the brothel then the police could take it from him because he has committed a crime.

Any two women working together can have their savings taken from them. It's not just 'dodgy types'. It's ordinary women who just want to make a living and to do it safely. The woman mentioned in the book Revolting Prostitutes wasn't convicted of anything.

[Barclay Spank]

Interesting series. I thought it showed that crimes does pay.
Sentences were quite lenient in my opinion.

He was sentenced to five years and nine months. He will spend several more years in prison if he doesn't come up with one million pounds. This is what happened to Carl Pritchett who ran the Cuddles brothel in Birmingham. Sandra Hankin who ran Sandys Superstar brothels in Manchester was told to pay two hundred thousand pounds.

"Viner, then 62, was sentenced to five years and nine months and the force is now seeking to reclaim up to £1million of his ill-gotten gains." It says here External Link/Members Only

[finn5555]

If the money is made in a brothel then its proceeds of crime - end of.

You need to get your facts right pal 

[Al]

If a brothel is illegal and a woman is working there - she is profiting from it. Therefore the money she has gained COULD be criminal property (under POCA) as she has made a financial gain partly based on something that is illegal. Not necessarily because what she may be doing is illegal herself but the overall circumstance of the transaction could be illegal. Woud she have made the money had it not been for the illegal operation behind it?

I don't think you have to be involved in RUNNING a brothel for the financial benefit to be subject to POCA. I accept WORKING there is legal

I don't disagree with the principle that an SP should keep her money but in reality if the Police raid a premise they are going to seize all large sums of cash until they have established its source.

Let me give another example - my boss runs an online shop selling fake trainers,. I get paid £100 a week .The legal liability for selling the fake trainers lies with my boss but I am benefitting £100 a week. As the sales of trainers are criminal - the benefit, including my wages, can be constituted as criminal property. The only requirement is that I as the employee knew or ought to know the money may be derived from crime. Which would be fact dependant of course.

[Al]

Above are just my thoughts - I don't think the CPS guidance which talks about the predicate offences of prostitution contradicts it -the offences of brothels etc and distinct from the POCA.

[daviemac]

If a brothel is illegal and a woman is working there - she is profiting from it. Therefore the money she has gained COULD be criminal property (under POCA) as she has made a financial gain partly based on something that is illegal. Not necessarily because what she may be doing is illegal herself but the overall circumstance of the transaction could be illegal. Woud she have made the money had it not been for the illegal operation behind it?

I don't think you have to be involved in RUNNING a brothel for the financial benefit to be subject to POCA. I accept WORKING there is legal

I don't disagree with the principle that an SP should keep her money but in reality if the Police raid a premise they are going to seize all large sums of cash until they have established its source.

Let me give another example - my boss runs an online shop selling fake trainers,. I get paid £100 a week .The legal liability for selling the fake trainers lies with my boss but I am benefitting £100 a week. As the sales of trainers are criminal - the benefit, including my wages, can be constituted as criminal property. The only requirement is that I as the employee knew or ought to know the money may be derived from crime. Which would be fact dependant of course.

Do us all a favour and stop posting this rubbish as fact. There are some people stupid enough to believe it.

A prostitute working in a brothel is NOT illegal, it's RUNNING it that's illegal and then only in certain circumstances. The selling of fake trainers is illegal for all concerned, no excuses, prostitutes working in a brothel selling sex is perfectly legal.

Try registering with HMRC as a seller of fake trainers and see what happens. A woman registering with HMRC as a prostitute is perfectly acceptable, it's classed as a trade or profession.

[Barclay Spank]

Let me give another example - my boss runs an online shop selling fake trainers,. I get paid £100 a week .The legal liability for selling the fake trainers lies with my boss but I am benefitting £100 a week. As the sales of trainers are criminal - the benefit, including my wages, can be constituted as criminal property. The only requirement is that I as the employee knew or ought to know the money may be derived from crime. Which would be fact dependant of course.

In your example your boss is giving you £100 a week. In a brothel the person who runs it or assists in the administration isn't giving the SP anything. She is giving him money. Her money doesn't come from him. The money in her handbag is nothing to do with any crime. The police shouldn't even be looking in her handbag because she is not a suspect. This is just a way that the state has found to punish people without a trial.

Also it is odd that the police could claw back large amounts of money from a totally innocent person. You might just as well say that if the police have observed someone buying large numbers of condoms from a chemist over several years then the chemist has to pay back thousands of pounds because the money came from crime. Or the local bed shop.

[Al]

Where did I say a prostitute working in a brothel is illegal? I said the money resulting from working in a illegal brothel could be subject to POCA. 

This is my interpretation of the law, but to be clear the CPS link doesn't nothing to suggest otherwise as it only talks about the prostitution offences - not how they link to POCA. If that was not the case then I'd love to be enlightened as to what basis the Police can seized cash from the SPs in a brothel raid.

I am happy to continue the discussion but its clear its not welcome.

[daviemac]

Where did I say a prostitute working in a brothel is illegal? I said the money resulting from working in a illegal brothel could be subject to POCA. 

This is my interpretation of the law, but to be clear the CPS link doesn't nothing to suggest otherwise as it only talks about the prostitution offences - not how they link to POCA. If that was not the case then I'd love to be enlightened as to what basis the Police can seized cash from the SPs in a brothel raid.

I am happy to continue the discussion but its clear its not welcome.

FFS Money earned legally can't be subject to POCA, what part of it's legal for a prostitute to work in a brothel do you not understand. The name POCA is the clue, it's - The Proceeds of CRIME Act, no crime no POCA confiscations.

As a now defunct member used to say "you can't educate pork" so I'll leave you in your own little dream world.

Edit.

Read you post again.

If the money is made in a brothel then its proceeds of crime - end of.

That is before you even start getting into the difficulties of whether its the pimps money or the SPs money (of which some may later go to the pimp) / and how to even calculate that

There is a moral question of whether an SP should get some of the money back but as its proceeds of crime I am not sure it is even open to the authorities to give the money back

broadly speaking its a situation i support as you have to discourage and have the power to deal with the dodgy types.

Both the highlighted sections show you think an escort working in a brothel is illegal otherwise it can't be proceeds of crime.

[The0neAnd0nly]

Watched the first episode of this today. Quite enjoyed it to be honest will watch the second which is coming on TV tonight (I have All4 but sometimes prefer watching things as they come on rather then bingeing)

A couple of points from me

1) when they pull over Viner for potentially being over the limit was this for for the benefit of the cameras? Felt like they wouldn't have jeopardized the whole operation for him drinking 2 or 3 pints??

2) the officer who kept calling it AW'S (with a S) got on my wick. Its almost like he really knew what it was called but thought by calling it the wrong name he could throw people off the scent!

3) When Davies is photographing girls outside post boxes / telephone boxes in broad daylight holding up newspapers... seemed quite ballsy?!

4) the chubby officer who had worked a similar case previously was clearly a punter. Knew eveything about punting including different setups and rates reckon he would have been happy to go "under cover".... literally!

[Glasgow28]

Watching episode 2 on channel 4 now. Didn't see the first one and may be one sided but its clear that trafficking goes on. Always stayed clear of the Romanians, Govanhill etc as they are clear red flags.
As tempted as I have been with some of the Brazilians pictures I've not met any due to many sharing flats and some poor reviews. Clear from this programme that a lot of the influx of Brazilian girls are clearly trafficked. So glad I've not.
Will stick to girls working on their own (to my knowledge), and mainly British. Might not be bulletproof but it does definitely limit the chances.

[Home Alone]

He was sentenced to five years and nine months. He will spend several more years in prison if he doesn't come up with one million pounds. This is what happened to Carl Pritchett who ran the Cuddles brothel in Birmingham. Sandra Hankin who ran Sandys Superstar brothels in Manchester was told to pay two hundred thousand pounds.

"Viner, then 62, was sentenced to five years and nine months and the force is now seeking to reclaim up to £1million of his ill-gotten gains." It says here External Link/Members Only

But I'm with standardpostage on thinking he got a light sentence for his crimes. Assuming he behaved himself when he was sent down, he'll only have served less than three years of his sentence. Admittedly, if he didn't cough up the money he made, the POCA imprisonment would be added after he'd done about 2 years, 10 months inside.

Which seems like a short sentence for the actual crimes he committed, imo.

[Barclay Spank]

But I'm with standardpostage on thinking he got a light sentence for his crimes. Assuming he behaved himself when he was sent down, he'll only have served less than three years of his sentence. Admittedly, if he didn't cough up the money he made, the POCA imprisonment would be added after he'd done about 2 years, 10 months inside.

Which seems like a short sentence for the actual crimes he committed, imo.

You're talking as if Viner kidnapped women from the streets of Rio and imprisoned them to be raped. All of the women chose to come to Britain to work as prostitutes. It seems they made lots of money from doing this. If he had 'trafficked' Brazilian women to work as nannies nobody would have a problem, apart from minor immigration and employment infringements.

When the police raid brothels and close them down you get more rapes and robberies of SPs. Sandra Hankin who ran Sandys Superstars in Manchester had two well run brothels where no SPs were raped or robbed. But they closed her down. Then they cry crocodile tears when Brazilian women, forced to work alone, get raped and robbed.

This documentary is propaganda. The idea of vulnerable women getting rescued by heroic men is an idea exciting to a lot of people who aren't really interested in the facts. "Underlying such efforts was an understanding of commercial sex and sex work that avoided victimization frameworks, which so often wrest autonomy from women and places it in the hands of states configured as masculine protectors" as Gretchen Soderlund wrote in her treatise about international trafficking 'Running from the Rescuers: New U.S. Crusades Against Sex Trafficking and the Rhetoric of Abolition'. If you read what she has written you will think differently about trafficking.
External Link/Members Only

I'm not defending Viner. I don't care about him. I care about the women.

[MrMatrix]

But I'm with standardpostage on thinking he got a light sentence for his crimes. Assuming he behaved himself when he was sent down, he'll only have served less than three years of his sentence. Admittedly, if he didn't cough up the money he made, the POCA imprisonment would be added after he'd done about 2 years, 10 months inside.

Which seems like a short sentence for the actual crimes he committed, imo.

I too think it was a light sentence. As for the money, I'd do 2yrs 10mths for a Million pounds, better than my current rate of pay and presumably this sentence may be reduced for good behaviour as well. No these girls were led down the garden path as I see it.
However I have met Roms who hate the job but the money is so good they put up with it. Could be the same with these Brazilians, I dont know. But for the sake of the documentary they are hardly likely to include this in the editing.

[Barclay Spank]

What I don't like about this documentary is that for decades there have been heated debates about what trafficking is, what problems it causes and how to solve them. They don't tell you any of this. They don't tell you that in brothel raids women are seized, taken to a detention centre, deported and have their money taken.

They can't tell outright lies so they can't say that the women were coerced into it but they talk about Learned Helplessness Syndrome. We shouldn't listen to the women when they say they don't want to be 'rescued' because they are incapable of making up their minds about what they want. Learned Helplessness isn't a syndrome, the word 'syndrome' means something different from what they think it means. It's a theory, and it's wrong to just diagnose people with it because they make a decision which you would prefer they didn't.

On one side of the debate is an unlikely alliance of American Evangelical Christians and Radical Feminists. On the other side of the debate are academics and NGOs many of whom have been involved in HIV prevention and find themselves defunded by the bigots who want to stop people fornicating.

[daviemac]

What I don't like about this documentary is that for decades there have been heated debates about what trafficking is, what problems it causes and how to solve them. They don't tell you any of this. They don't tell you that in brothel raids women are seized, taken to a detention centre, deported and have their money taken.

Can you provide the evidence you have for this.   

[scutty brown]

................. They don't tell you that in brothel raids women are seized, taken to a detention centre, deported and have their money taken.........................

As a generalisation that isn't true. There isn't space in the detention centre!!!
Only the most intransigent get locked up - those with a record or history of other offences. Most who simply breach immigration offences are given an order to report on a specific day for deportation - and in the meantime released and allowed to vanish into the community and gain a new ID. Those who appear to be genuine trafficking victims can either be aided to return home, or end up getting leave to remain here.
I think you'll find immigration control are to busy to worry much working prossies when they have much bigger targets in their sights.
If a girl does get booted out its almost certainly because she's an undesirable who isn't worth the cost of prosecuting

[Mike66]

None of us truly know what goes on behind the scenes with the girls we see, but we aren’t stupid enough to think that some (a lot) of these girls are put there by criminals. There’s a double problem here though, firstly punting isn’t fully legal, regulated or accepted and until that happens then it will attract a criminal element because no matter what any government in the world does we will always buy sex and that will never change. Secondly British girls are becoming worse in this profession, the attitude of some is awful, a lot of them don’t take care of their appearance and the overall experience is becoming a bad one in many cases, whereas most foreign girls at least look desirable and sexy. At the end of the day you want to fuck/suck etc with a good looking girl or one with a sexy body, if British girls upped their game, looked a bit sexier, actually answered our requests for a booking and showed some enthusiasm then we wouldn’t be feeding these criminal’s ‘business’ interests. That’s not to say that these gangs shouldn’t be caught and punished and the girls given support, but they aren’t just exploiting the girls they’re exploiting the market because quite frankly it’s getting to the stage where it’d be better being in a relationship with all the things that brings, than punting and being hugely dissatisfied more and more often with the service offered (or not in loads of cases)..

[daviemac]

firstly punting isn’t fully legal,

Yes it is, there's nothing illegal in selling or buying sex. (NI excepted) There are some things associated with buying and selling sex that are illegal but not the actual prostitution.

[signy]

I too think it was a light sentence. As for the money, I'd do 2yrs 10mths for a Million pounds, better than my current rate of pay and presumably this sentence may be reduced for good behaviour as well.

Meanwhile, a man gets five years in jail for killing cats.

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And the big landowners are getting upset because they won't be able to blast animals to death for fun and profit.

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There are times that it is just a very strange world.

[winkywanky]

Meanwhile, a man gets five years in jail for killing cats.

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And the big landowners are getting upset because they won't be able to blast animals to death for fun and profit.

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There are times that it is just a very strange world.

FWIW I think that piece of shit deserved to get five years. Think of all the human misery he caused, killing people's beloved pets, over twenty of them? As well as the suffering of dumb animals.

I just hope there are enough animal lovers in his prison to want to kick the shit out of him.

If you think there's an imbalance with the sentencing for trafficking girls there, then perhaps the trafficking sentences need to be higher?