Another trafficking story in today’s papers and on Ch4 now

[Captainhowdy666]

External Link/Members Only

Just realised the tv show is in ch4 now also.

[ronthebrummie]

Watching this now, scary what the police know about AW and probably UKP

[Kev40ish]

Watching this now, scary what the police know about AW and probably UKP

They would be pretty shit if they didn’t…

[Goldfinch]

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

[Ghost89]

Just watching this on Channel 4. Is it just me or does it make you think twice about punting and also if any of the Brazilian girls that are local to us have had anything to do with gang featured.

[69shadesofblue]

I’m that worried about the possibility of a trafficked girl, I never see Eastern European or South American girls.

[whoya.kiddin]

Watching with a bit of inside knowledge it is quite apparent that the SP's involved have not been, kidnapped, bought into the country against their will and kept in slavery, they have come to the UK of their own free will to make money the can only dream of earning at home. 

One more propaganda piece from the Victorian anti-sex brigade.

[finn5555]

Watching with a bit of inside knowledge it is quite apparent that the SP's involved have not been, kidnapped

It’s not apparent at all 

[CV31Lad]

Watching with a bit of inside knowledge it is quite apparent that the SP's involved have not been, kidnapped, bought into the country against their will and kept in slavery, they have come to the UK of their own free will to make money the can only dream of earning at home. 

One more propaganda piece from the Victorian anti-sex brigade.

I only caught the second half of the show but this was the impression I got also. Would need to watch it all to be clear on that though.

[Taggart]

The maths is suspect. In one sentence it says one suspect was raking in £3-4K per week. A few paragraphs later says £1.2m a year - which is £23k per week. Viner looks a scumbag whatever.

Goes some way to explain the large numbers of Brazilians both cis and TS, which I’ve no rush to want to see.

Sentences were pathetic too. Hope the proceeds of crime gets a solid result.

[Pleasureseeker]

Im sure theres some thai girls that have been trafficked in south east.

[maxxblue]

Im sure theres some thai girls that have been trafficked in south east.

Have you reported this to the authorities?

[delete]

Sexy worker trafficking is worldwide, I avoid non UK working girls but there are time I have wondered if some have also been coerced in escorting.

[Jacobs]

Have you reported this to the authorities?

A lot of  Thai girls have been divorced from British husbands, so they have the right to work and send money home. 

[GingerNuts]

Sexy worker trafficking is worldwide, I avoid non UK working girls but there are time I have wondered if some have also been coerced in escorting.

Based on the number of reviews you've posted you avoid working girls of all nationalities.

[petermisc]

It is very hard to tell if a girl has been trafficked into the UK.  My rule of thumb is to ask myself how did the girl raise the money to get here, rent the accommodation she is in, and all the other costs associated with getting to and working in the UK.   And how much control has she over what she is doing, is she doing her own advertising or is someone else doing it for her, is someone else controlling her bookings, and suchlike.  The more red flags, the more likely that she was trafficked.

[GingerNuts]

It is very hard to tell if a girl has been trafficked into the UK.  My rule of thumb is to ask myself how did the girl raise the money to get here, rent the accommodation she is in, and all the other costs associated with getting to and working in the UK.   And how much control has she over what she is doing, is she doing her own advertising or is someone else doing it for her, is someone else controlling her bookings, and suchlike.  The more red flags, the more likely that she was trafficked.

Do the girls you see have to complete a questionnaire?

[Lewis]

I only caught the second half of the show but this was the impression I got also. Would need to watch it all to be clear on that though.

Why didn't you watch Channel 4 +1 afterwards?

Or you could always watch it anytime on All 4, which is Channel 4's streaming service.

[Al]

Watching with a bit of inside knowledge it is quite apparent that the SP's involved have not been, kidnapped, bought into the country against their will and kept in slavery, they have come to the UK of their own free will to make money the can only dream of earning at home. 

One more propaganda piece from the Victorian anti-sex brigade.

Other than the numerous hints dropped that various girls were unhappy?

Even the suspect of episode 2 knew the girls were being 'trafficked'. I suspect the definition of trafficking purposely avoids things like co-cercion or force because its so hard to get the victims to open up.

Your inside knowledge can only be one of two things-  you are either involved in it or you have spoken to a few SPs who have told you XYZ - which means bugger all.

The only thing that surprised me a little was that the brothels are not run by Brazilians.

[Al]

Watching this now, scary what the police know about AW and probably UKP

Pretty sure they will have a direct line into AW. It looked like they had a spreadsheet open with a lot of girls verification pics.

No doubt they also have accounts on UKP.

[Colston36]

Watching with a bit of inside knowledge it is quite apparent that the SP's involved have not been, kidnapped, bought into the country against their will and kept in slavery, they have come to the UK of their own free will to make money the can only dream of earning at home. 

One more propaganda piece from the Victorian anti-sex brigade.

You sound like a sex-traffic promoter

[lillythesavage]

The maths is suspect. In one sentence it says one suspect was raking in £3-4K per week. A few paragraphs later says £1.2m a year - which is £23k per week. Viner looks a scumbag whatever.

Goes some way to explain the large numbers of Brazilians both cis and TS, which I’ve no rush to want to see.

Sentences were pathetic too. Hope the proceeds of crime gets a solid result.

From memory I think it was 1.2 squirrelled away rather than per year and they are trying to seize it through proceeds of crime.

[lillythesavage]

Watching with a bit of inside knowledge it is quite apparent that the SP's involved have not been, kidnapped, bought into the country against their will and kept in slavery, they have come to the UK of their own free will to make money the can only dream of earning at home. 

One more propaganda piece from the Victorian anti-sex brigade.

You do not come across well in that post, and for someone with " inside information " a very strange view of a well known process.

Sure, they come of their own free will, the lure of money and helping family is strong for poor people, but they are often told it is for legit jobs and the sex work is forced on them to repay the cost of trafficking them here.

Even those that come knowing it is sex work rarely see much of the money earned, if they do not do it off their own back.

[HornyHemel]

The maths is suspect. In one sentence it says one suspect was raking in £3-4K per week. A few paragraphs later says £1.2m a year - which is £23k per week. Viner looks a scumbag whatever.

Goes some way to explain the large numbers of Brazilians both cis and TS, which I’ve no rush to want to see.

Sentences were pathetic too. Hope the proceeds of crime gets a solid result.

I watched episodes 1 & 2 last night, the £1.2M relates to the two Asian guys who are shown collecting a bag from one of the suspects and then visiting multiple banks to deposit large amounts of cash into different accounts.   

[petermisc]

Do the girls you see have to complete a questionnaire?

I repeat "My rule of thumb is TO ASK MYSELF ....".  Very, very unlikely that a WG is going to volunteer the kind of personal information that tells you she is trafficked.

However, in most cases, you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work out if she is running her own bookings, or is working in a rotation parlour with her bookings being run by a maid/pimp, for example.   I find it hard to believe that many girls have the money up-front to fund their return airfare from somewhere like Brazil or China, for example, and pay the deposit for a flat in somewhere like London or Birmingham.  If she didn't have the money up-front, and the necessary references, and speaks almost no English, what is the most likely way she got here?  Particularly if she comes from a country where trafficking is rife.

No one thing is going to tell you definitively, you just need to tot up all the yellow cards.  However, I appreciate that many prefer not to ask themselves these types of awkward questions when they are getting a bargain punt.

[PunterNumber69]

This is why I only see indies.

[daviemac]

This is why I only see indies.

How do you know they are fully independent and they don't have a controlling pimp in the background or that they haven't been forced, trafficked or coerced into it.

Them being British is no guarantee they are doing it willingly either.

[whoya.kiddin]

Other than the numerous hints dropped that various girls were unhappy?

Even the suspect of episode 2 knew the girls were being 'trafficked'. I suspect the definition of trafficking purposely avoids things like co-cercion or force because its so hard to get the victims to open up.

Your inside knowledge can only be one of two things-  you are either involved in it or you have spoken to a few SPs who have told you XYZ - which means bugger all.

The only thing that surprised me a little was that the brothels are not run by Brazilians.

Really?  The reality is most people hate their jobs.  Being an unhappy sex worker is no more proof you are a slave, have been trafficked or are being coerced than the many other immigrants - legal and illegal - working in this country, flogging their guts out on or below the minimum wage.  The pimps here are clearly committing multiple offences and should be viewed accordingly.  That is a world away from proving that the majority of sex workers in this country are slaves, are working as sex workers against their will or whose situation is any different from all the other immigrant workers with the sole exception that they happen to be selling sexual services.

[Al]

Really?  The reality is most people hate their jobs.  Being an unhappy sex worker is no more proof you are a slave, have been trafficked or are being coerced than the many other immigrants - legal and illegal - working in this country, flogging their guts out on or below the minimum wage.  The pimps here are clearly committing multiple offences and should be viewed accordingly.  That is a world away from proving that the majority of sex workers in this country are slaves, are working as sex workers against their will or whose situation is any different from all the other immigrant workers with the sole exception that they happen to be selling sexual services.

There is a difference between an SP choosing to do sex work just because they would rather do it than work at a supermarket but still hate it and an SP who is either tricked into it or in some other way forced/co-erced into working hours/seeing clients they don't want to do.

Sex work is not really the same as standard work - we can all hate our jobs to an extent but crack on. I don't think anyone should do sex work unless they want to or have a free choice to do it.

There quite clearly can be pressured applied to these girls which we seen the in program.

I think some just want to look at the positives and turn a blind eye to the reality.

I would hate to think I saw an SP who was forced to see me because her trafficker forces her to see X number of clients a day whether she wants to or not.

As a punter you will never know the girls circumstance - just because they appear cheery to you doesn't mean they actually are behind the scenes.

[lillythesavage]

I repeat "My rule of thumb is TO ASK MYSELF ....".  Very, very unlikely that a WG is going to volunteer the kind of personal information that tells you she is trafficked.

However, in most cases, you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work out if she is running her own bookings, or is working in a rotation parlour with her bookings being run by a maid/pimp, for example.   I find it hard to believe that many girls have the money up-front to fund their return airfare from somewhere like Brazil or China, for example, and pay the deposit for a flat in somewhere like London or Birmingham.  If she didn't have the money up-front, and the necessary references, and speaks almost no English, what is the most likely way she got here?  Particularly if she comes from a country where trafficking is rife.

No one thing is going to tell you definitively, you just need to tot up all the yellow cards.  However, I appreciate that many prefer not to ask themselves these types of awkward questions when they are getting a bargain punt.

There is a new breed of pimp, one that owns property and will use it to extort a percentage rather than rent, but use the same dirty tricks to keep them there, not least " helping " to do an AW profile and refusing to reveal log in details, which fucks her using her ID to do another. Then take their cut and charge her for condoms, wipes, laundry, utilities on top.

You would never know, unless your were told.

[daviemac]

There is a new breed of pimp, one that owns property and will use it to extort a percentage rather than rent, but use the same dirty tricks to keep them there, not least " helping " to do an AW profile and refusing to reveal log in details, which fucks her using her ID to do another. Then take their cut and charge her for condoms, wipes, laundry, utilities on top.

You would never know, unless your were told.

What makes you think that is new, it's been going on for years. There's at least one banned from here for doing it.

[lillythesavage]

What makes you think that is new, it's been going on for years. There's at least one banned from here for doing it.

New to me , Aw punting is a minefield these days, and I see the one who told me about it is showing available again, last time we spoke she was doing one more week and getting profile control, obviously not.

[HomerC]

Watching this now, scary what the police know about AW

It sounds like the police are using adultworks

How could they possibly not know about AW? They have google now, you know.
(And they will definitely have UKP accounts; they would be seriously negligent not to.)

Episode 1:
[verification photo in front of postbox]
I get holding up todays paper for the date; I didn't know they did the landmark thing - most veri pics I've seen are indoors.

Thoughts:

• The trafficking details are horrifying
• At least if you look for a "sugar baby" instead, you are less likely to be dealing with someone trafficked?

[teddyking]

There is a new breed of pimp, one that owns property and will use it to extort a percentage rather than rent, but use the same dirty tricks to keep them there, not least " helping " to do an AW profile and refusing to reveal log in details, which fucks her using her ID to do another. Then take their cut and charge her for condoms, wipes, laundry, utilities on top.

You would never know, unless your were told.

Sounds like w typical agency. I never use agencies. I know a popular agency called Lush in Birmingham take a fat % and then fine their girls if they don’t work certain days. Plus the phone handlers sound like nobs, never used them

[cideruk]

Certainly put me off booking one of the new Brazilians in Manchester

[Londonpunter30]

Pretty sure they will have a direct line into AW. It looked like they had a spreadsheet open with a lot of girls verification pics.

No doubt they also have accounts on UKP.

Not sure what you mean by direct line, but if you think they have a back door admin account, I seriously doubt this.  Years of fake accounts appearing daily in the same location casts doubt on this.

They would be foolish not to monitor it though, let’s face it a 5 second search in London would reveal a group of girls working in the same location

[Lister]

No one can condone human trafficking for any purpose abd perpetrators should rightly be prosecuted, but I hate the way that programmes like this try and make out it is all about the sex industry and almost all prostitutes are trafficked.

This programme, in episode 1, estimates "136,000 people trafficked into slavery and many of these are in the sex trade". I suspect the percentage of truly trafficked women in the sex is quite small, but any number is too many. However the governments own figures estimate the number of sex workers in the UK as 72,800 so by this reckoning even if all prostitutes were trafficked and there would still be 63,200 trafficked into other jobs - domestic help, farming, cockle picking etc. they also state that there are 4,500 organised groups of criminals engaged in this - which seems an enormous number to me.

I suspect programmes such as this rely on the "sex" tag to get an audience and tend to hype up the figures and present all escorts as trafficked streetwalkers who are frequently raped at knifepoint and subject to constant abuse and coercion - which is not my experience over the years (OK, not a scientific survey  ). I have not seen the final episode yet so cannot make a final assessment, but so far it does not seem to represent the sex trade very accurately. You rarely, if ever, hear from independent escorts who work voluntarily, earn a good income, and dare I say it - often enjoy their job.

[MrMatrix]

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

I recorded the Ch4 program. I was more concerned at them using ANPR to track everyone. So if youve seen a Brazilian they may have spotted you already
Next episode next Monday

[Goldfinch]

I recorded the Ch4 program. I was more concerned at them using ANPR to track everyone. So if youve seen a Brazilian they may have spotted you already
Next episode next Monday

Yes,an interesting watch.

[Al]

Not sure what you mean by direct line, but if you think they have a back door admin account, I seriously doubt this.  Years of fake accounts appearing daily in the same location casts doubt on this.

They would be foolish not to monitor it though, let’s face it a 5 second search in London would reveal a group of girls working in the same location

i mean AW will provide them with information on request.

They may for example be able to identify all accounts set up from the same IP address or email (if you can use the same one more than once).

All 3 episodes are up on 4OD now. I won't spoil it - albeit OP has put the final outcome in the link.
Leslie Davies was an absolutely deluded moron - or playing very ignorant.

[Milansky]

Near the end of second one now. Really interesting but it's amazing how close up they can film these guys without getting spotted.

[Iceman90]

Interesting stuff. Always wondered why there are so many touring Brazilian TS here even during lockdown. They don’t seem to have much say in where they tour so obviously there are scumbag pimps behind the scenes organising things. Disgusting individuals.

[The0neAnd0nly]

Near the end of second one now. Really interesting but it's amazing how close up they can film these guys without getting spotted.

If you've never watched The Wire, there is a classic scene Jimmy McNulty infiltrates a brothel. Starts getting sucked off but forgets the safe word for the officers outside to breach and they all have to hear him getting pleasured

If you know the character, chances are he didnt forget and decided to get paid for that deliberately lol

Edit: the scene in question. Have any of us ever turned up to a punt with a mans purse?!

External Link/Members Only

[Milansky]

If you've never watched The Wire, there is a classic scene Jimmy McNulty infiltrates a brothel. Starts getting sucked off but forgets the safe word for the officers outside to breach and they all have to hear him getting pleasured

If you know the character, chances are he didnt forget and decided to get paid for that deliberately lol

It's on my watch list but with so many episodes I just don't have time. From what I've heard an amazing series though!

[Mr Doodle]

Unfortunately, the moral brigade have too strong a voice and as a result, politicos are dead against properly legalising and regulating the sex industry, without which provides wide open opportunities for trafficking.. And let's face it, there will be a select few punters out there who get off on knowing they are bonking someone trafficked, but even then, in a properly regulated industry where things like proof of eligibility of employment is required, a select few SPs can give the impression they are trafficked for what is hopefully a very tiny niche..

I have a formula in place.. there are two positive reviews I have on here. So, when I get the chance, should I, they will be my go to.. They are safe, good at what they do, and would be in the lowest percentile of probability of being trafficked or other nefarious activities. Beyond them, I would look for someone similar as I think that sort of profile either isn't trafficked or is free of their ex trafficking masters.. Of course, in the latter case, that still raises questions.. but until this industry is properly regulated, that is all we (in my case very part time) punters can do.

[Al]

I very much doubt regulation will sort it - these dodgy types will make far too much money to go legit.

modern slavery in all its form is a massive problem in this country.

[bedhedred]

It's on my watch list but with so many episodes I just don't have time. From what I've heard an amazing series though!

A amazing series - tru dat!

I watched in one go at the time.

In that scene McNulty has a duo.

Hidden Image/Members Only

[lillythesavage]

It sounds like the police are using adultworks

How could they possibly not know about AW? They have google now, you know.
(And they will definitely have UKP accounts; they would be seriously negligent not to.)

Episode 1:
[verification photo in front of postbox]
I get holding up todays paper for the date; I didn't know they did the landmark thing - most veri pics I've seen are indoors.

Thoughts:

• The trafficking details are horrifying
• At least if you look for a "sugar baby" instead, you are less likely to be dealing with someone trafficked?

The landmark thing is a red herring, they do not ask for pics from the London eye, they ask for pics at a pillar box, post box for the young, and they do not say it but the white label needs to be clear or they reject it, I think to prove you are actually near the location you put into the profile when building it.

IE, if you put Manchester and the post box is in London they hold back verification, it is a performance to get verified, yet some never do and have profiles for years, so a pointless task, as long as it is not reported I suppose.
The indoor veri pics are another phase in the process, post box, recent newspaper, indoors, holding the written A4 sheet.

[northface]

Thought the show was heavy going and pretty boring.

[Al]

The show was very focussed on the Police work side of it - i.e they spent months following around various people to build a picture up.