Rugby World Cup 2023

[binbag]

Perhaps his father's northern / league background had his son growing up seeing a harder tougher style of play

I don't think those cheap shot high tackles qualify as either harder or tougher, quite the opposite really. Most northern hard men I know, incuding the Rugby League players, would take delight in hitting you clean, clean off your feet.

[webpunter]

I don't think those cheap shot high tackles qualify as either harder or tougher, quite the opposite really. Most northern hard men I know, incuding the Rugby League players, would take delight in hitting you clean, clean off your feet.

Good point
The RL players are well hard

[webpunter]

Get me OwenFarrell’s legal team

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[ulstersubbie]

Been reading about this fellow called Jack Dempsey, who has been selected for Scotland for the WC. He isn't remotely Scottish, played fourteen times for Australia, then wasn't selected for three years and now gets a chance to represent Scotland. What's the point of international sport, if a load of people are playing for countries they weren't born in?

[bigden40]

Been reading about this fellow called Jack Dempsey, who has been selected for Scotland for the WC. He isn't remotely Scottish, played fourteen times for Australia, then wasn't selected for three years and now gets a chance to represent Scotland. What's the point of international sport, if a load of people are playing for countries they weren't born in?

You’ve just become aware of player that was first capped a year ago and has now appeared 11 times across last years AIs, this years 6 Nations and RWC warmups?

“Country you were born in” is not the standard and hasn’t been for a long time, the standard for ancestry qualification (rather than residency) is grandparent.  Jack Dempsey is as Scottish as Rob Herring or Josh van der Flier is Irish.

WR changed the rule some time ago to allow players who have not been selected internationally for over 3 years to change allegiance to another country that he’s legitimately qualified to represent.  Jack Dempsey is one of 20 players in current RWC squads that have changed country on this basis.

[mr.bluesky]

Been reading about this fellow called Jack Dempsey, who has been selected for Scotland for the WC. He isn't remotely Scottish, played fourteen times for Australia, then wasn't selected for three years and now gets a chance to represent Scotland. What's the point of international sport, if a load of people are playing for countries they weren't born in?

A bit like the Republic of Ireland's football selection policy over the last few years, if you drank Guinness you were in.
Perhaps this Aussie swapped Fosters for Tennents lager so makes him eligible

[ulstersubbie]

Perhaps this Aussie swapped Fosters for Tennents lager so makes him eligible

Too be fair Tennents is a step up from Fosters, not by much though!   

[webpunter]

Farrell aint outta the woods yet

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In line with provisions set out under Regulation 17, an independent Appeal Committee will be appointed [by World Rugby whoever the fuck they are] to determine the matter at the earliest possible opportunity

Independent yeah right
Each of those on the newly appointed committee will have a vested interest
Lets see if any aussies in the committee 

[chrishornx]

Farrell aint outta the woods yet

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In line with provisions set out under Regulation 17, an independent Appeal Committee will be appointed [by World Rugby whoever the fuck they are] to determine the matter at the earliest possible opportunity

Independent yeah right
Each of those on the newly appointed committee will have a vested interest
Lets see if any aussies in the committee 

what is the issue with Aussies Webbie?

[timsussex]

Farrell aint outta the woods yet

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In line with provisions set out under Regulation 17, an independent Appeal Committee will be appointed [by World Rugby whoever the fuck they are] to determine the matter at the earliest possible opportunity

Independent yeah right
Each of those on the newly appointed committee will have a vested interest
Lets see if any aussies in the committee 

more money for the lawyers !

One of their 'reasons' is to show support for the officials but if the appeal is allowed the independent panel is toast

[webpunter]

what is the issue with Aussies Webbie?

They overturned the red card
No issue with em

Just watched the tackle again a number of times
Basham was pushed & was falling
Had he not been pushed & stayed on his feet there wouldn't have been any head contact
& Farrell [just about] puts his left arm around so not a block tackle
Given the incredibly short timeline Farrell wont be able to adjust his direction
Without Basham being pushed & the same contact deffo a red card

The 'independent' committee will no doubt have numerous other camera angles

[bigden40]

They overturned the red card
No issue with em

Just watched the tackle again a number of times
Basham was pushed & was falling
Had he not been pushed & stayed on his feet there wouldn't have been any head contact
& Farrell [just about] puts his left arm around so not a block tackle
Given the incredibly short timeline Farrell wont be able to adjust his direction
Without Basham being pushed & the same contact deffo a red card

The 'independent' committee will no doubt have numerous other camera angles

Lol. Try looking at it with both eyes 

At no point in the process is Farrell in a position to make a legal tackle.  He’s too high and in true Farrell style is leading with the shoulder. 

The HCP, if followed correctly, shows it’s a red card all day long.  Direct contact to the head, with the shoulder, foul play, high degree of danger, clear red card. No mitigation allowed as the foul play is always illegal.  Basham went off for a HIA and failed it, if the red card is rescinded he’ll miss more Rugby than Farrell due to the return to play protocols.

Not a good look which is why World rugby have appealed it.

[David1970]

Been reading about this fellow called Jack Dempsey, who has been selected for Scotland for the WC. He isn't remotely Scottish, played fourteen times for Australia, then wasn't selected for three years and now gets a chance to represent Scotland. What's the point of international sport, if a load of people are playing for countries they weren't born in?

His grandfather is Scottish, unlike Manu Tuilagi or the Vunipola brothers.

[David1970]

They overturned the red card
No issue with em

Just watched the tackle again a number of times
Basham was pushed & was falling
Had he not been pushed & stayed on his feet there wouldn't have been any head contact
& Farrell [just about] puts his left arm around so not a block tackle
Given the incredibly short timeline Farrell wont be able to adjust his direction
Without Basham being pushed & the same contact deffo a red card

The 'independent' committee will no doubt have numerous other camera angles

Tackle was high, no attempt to wrap is arm round, has been doing this for years.
He always gets away with it because who he is. Basically he is a thug who has been protected by the old boy network.
Player safety is the number one priority at all levels of rugby from mini rugby to full international.

[chrishornx]

His grandfather is Scottish, unlike Manu Tuilagi or the Vunipola brothers.

his grandfather lives in Scotland having emigrate there from Australia - not certain his grandfather is Scottish born

[ulstersubbie]

His grandfather is Scottish, unlike Manu Tuilagi or the Vunipola brothers.

Ok, fair point. I am more annoyed at the fact that he had represented Australia on a number of occasions and then when cast aside he chose Scotland. I left Scotland when I was a bairn, my parents emigrated not my fault. When I was growing up I never felt anything other than Scottish, I would have loved to have pulled on the blue jersey be it in any sport. I know the rules are the rules but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[bigden40]

his grandfather lives in Scotland having emigrate there from Australia - not certain his grandfather is Scottish born

He has a Scottish born grandfather.

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[bigden40]

They overturned the red card
No issue with em

Just watched the tackle again a number of times
Basham was pushed & was falling
Had he not been pushed & stayed on his feet there wouldn't have been any head contact
& Farrell [just about] puts his left arm around so not a block tackle
Given the incredibly short timeline Farrell wont be able to adjust his direction
Without Basham being pushed & the same contact deffo a red card

The 'independent' committee will no doubt have numerous other camera angles

The full report is here

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Their reasoning appears to be that without George’s involvement that Farrell would have made a legal tackle.  This is so obviously wrong that it is no wonder that World Rugby has appealed the decision.

If you’re on LinkedIn Simon Shaw has posted a pretty decent take on the whole incident.

[webpunter]

Tackle was high, no attempt to wrap is arm round, has been doing this for years.
He always gets away with it because who he is. Basically he is a thug who has been protected by the old boy network.
Player safety is the number one priority at all levels of rugby from mini rugby to full international.

It was high / on the high side for sure
The optics look worse as the welsh player was on the way down
Here's a section from the Guardian's reporting

the panel determined that his high tackle on Wales’s Taine Basham at the weekend did not meet the threshold for a ban.
The England captain admitted foul play but argued the incident did not warrant a red card
and, crucially, the panel determined that Jamie George pushed Basham into contact with Farrell, providing enough mitigation for the fly-half.
“The committee found that a late change in dynamics due to England No 2’s interaction in the contact area brought about a sudden and significant change in direction from the ball carrier,”

See what the 'independent' world rugby committee - yet to be appointed - come up with & how long this is gonna take

Does anyone know when the ban - its looking very likely one will be forthcoming - will start ?

The Argentina opener is really the only one where a full strength team is needed
Farrell being 'rested' for some of the qualifying matches could be favourable
Him less likely to be injured & fresh for the QFs
Unless the wheels fall off the chariot 

[webpunter]

Listening to Talk Sport today they were talking about a rugby cruise ship based out of Marseille for the tournament
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3 nights flights & accomo match tickets @ £1,399 isnt outrageous

Considering that matchday tickets at twickenham can be £500+ [if you can reliably get them]
& the rip off RFU hopsitality - just for the day is up to £1,499 WTF
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Edit: there are numerous better ways IMO to spend the day @ Twickenham & not get fleeced for 1.5k are they havin a laarf ? 

[chrishornx]

Listening to Talk Sport today they were talking about a rugby cruise ship based out of Marseille for the tournament
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3 nights flights & accomo match tickets @ £1,399 isnt outrageous

Is it one of this illegal immigrant ships Webbie?

[webpunter]

Is it one of this illegal immigrant ships Webbie?

I think they are more expensive per night when adding up all the actual costs 

As for legionella with 4,000 rugby pissed up rugby fans on board the alcohol will kill this
The legionalla doesnt stand a chance 

It would take some organization shipping an SP on board, i cant imagine that there will be many burds on board so somewhat visible
Especially with the SP wearing hooker clobber
Anyways France is top of the list when it comes to shite european countries for our fave sport so not worth even considering
Maybe go ashore to find a R&T @ the port to alleviate a serious medical condition which is the hangover horn

For UKPers who are rugby fans & have inquisitive OHs & struggle to get out, it could be an opportunity despite all the pitfalls

[MissWolf]

Well it is Owen Farrell, the golden balls of English Rugby, what do you expect 

Mr Nigel Owens has had his say on the subject and he's not a happy man

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[mr.bluesky]

Mr Nigel Owens has had his say on the subject and he's not a happy man

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As Nigel Owens says ,Owen Farrell has been tackling like this for a long time but he's been getting away with it and when a respected ref like Owens says it you have got to take notice.

[webpunter]

As Nigel Owens says ,Owen Farrell has been tackling like this for a long time but he's been getting away with it and when a respected ref like Owens says it you have got to take notice.

+1
I would be surprised if Farrell get a ban which takes him beyond the group stage
If for the only reason that this hammers to shit the decision of the panel to overturn the red card
NO's comments are balanced however i disagree with Farrell having time to adjust his position
No chance, tho i can see his motivations with the druids beckoning in the QFs 
The weakness in Farrell's defence is that he was too high in the 1st place
& he has got form for it

I'd like to think that if England do meet Wales that they have enough to overcome them
Doesnt impact that much in the grand scheme of things as Wales aint gonna win the RWC as long as i have a hole in my bum
I do need to credit Mick McCarthy
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I'm thinking southern hemisphere winners, preserving England's position in the northern hemi as the only ones to win it
With France being triple final surrender monkeys 

Thinking about it the paddies would be acceptable, match days @ Rugby Central HQ really are the best when they are in town
So much fun the atmosphere inside the stadium outside & pre post match is brill
IMO the paddies are the drinking have a great day champions
Even tho the black stuff at in around the stadium & in Twickenham aint the best [they're too wasted to notice  ]

[MissWolf]

As Nigel Owens says ,Owen Farrell has been tackling like this for a long time but he's been getting away with it and when a respected ref like Owens says it you have got to take notice.

Nigel does a great little series on world rugby's FB page called #whistlewatch, if it works there is a link to one below

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[mr.bluesky]

Nigel does a great little series on world rugby's FB page called #whistlewatch, if it works there is a link to one below

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[David1970]

Englands only specialised number 8 in the WC squads gets a red card, that is going to hurt more than Farrell.
At leat in his defence he is not a serial offender like Farrell so might only get a 2 match ban. Then again they should have thrown the book at Farrell and didn’t.

[timsussex]

Englands only specialised number 8 in the WC squads gets a red card, that is going to hurt more than Farrell.
At leat in his defence he is not a serial offender like Farrell so might only get a 2 match ban. Then again they should have thrown the book at Farrell and didn’t.

More money for the lawyers - suspect they will be claiming mitigation due to someone else tackling .... Irishman bending of knees or ...... Hang on why should I do his £1000 an hour job for him
 

[mr.bluesky]

Comprehensive win for South Africa over Wales ,they are coming into form just at the right time. As expected Ireland beat England and once again we finish the game with 14 men on the pitch  Getting fed up of reading about how England can still win the forthcoming Word Cup by ex players and journalists in the press. With this team we will be lucky to get out the group stage. English rugby is in a mess, not helped by 3 teams going bust and dropping out the Rugby Premiership. ( Wasps, Worcester and London Irish) with the new season just around the corner who will be next 

[David1970]

Comprehensive win for South Africa over Wales ,they are coming into form just at the right time. As expected Ireland beat England and once again we finish the game with 14 men on the pitch  Getting fed up of reading about how England can still win the forthcoming Word Cup by ex players and journalists in the press. With this team we will be lucky to get out the group stage. English rugby is in a mess, not helped by 3 teams going bust and dropping out the Rugby Premiership. ( Wasps, Worcester and London Irish) with the new season just around the corner who will be next 

The 8 teams that will get through to the next round, (despite the poor form of England, Wales and Australia and the crazy seeding system) will be.

England
Wales
Ireland
France
New Zealand
South Africa
Australia
Argentine

[timsussex]

would be interesting to see what the draw would be based on current form rather than the several year old seedings  which had NZ, SA Eng Wales as top 4 seedings Ireland France Aus, Japan as second group Scotland, Italy Argentina and Fiji in Group 3

I'm not sure England would scrape into group3 at the moment but yes they probably only need to beat either Japan or Argentina to progress

[mr.bluesky]

would be interesting to see what the draw would be based on current form rather than the several year old seedings  which had NZ, SA Eng Wales as top 4 seedings Ireland France Aus, Japan as second group Scotland, Italy Argentina and Fiji in Group 3

I'm not sure England would scrape into group3 at the moment but yes they probably only need to beat either Japan or Argentina to progress

On current form I wouldn't bet on England beating Argentina who are no longer the push overs in World Rugby. They only recently lost to South Africa by 1 point (a game they should have won, missed conversions cost them the game ) and remember what Japan did to Scotland in the last World cup. England did beat Japan recently at Twickenham but are not in a good run of form at the moment . Mediocre performances in the last two 6 nations and a defeat and narrow win over Wales doesn't fill me with confidence .

[timsussex]

On current form I wouldn't bet on England beating Argentina who are no longer the push overs in World Rugby. They only recently lost to South Africa by 1 point (a game they should have won, missed conversions cost them the game ) and remember what Japan did to Scotland in the last World cup. England did beat Japan recently at Twickenham but are not in a good run of form at the moment . Mediocre performances in the last two 6 nations and a defeat and narrow win over Wales doesn't fill me with confidence .

I didn't say I would bet on them either.  I only said they would probably only need to beat one of them.
Its probable but by no means certain that England will beat Chile and Samoa

[mr.bluesky]

"I wouldn't bet on them " is just an expression, it  doesn't mean physicaly betting on them.  its a term used to express doubt  you do not think that something is true or will happen    perhaps I should have said
" I wouldn't bet on it" rather than " I wouldn't bet on them"
Like you say it is no means certain they will beat Chile or Samoa , it could be 2015 all over again 

[bigden40]

would be interesting to see what the draw would be based on current form rather than the several year old seedings  which had NZ, SA Eng Wales as top 4 seedings Ireland France Aus, Japan as second group Scotland, Italy Argentina and Fiji in Group 3

I'm not sure England would scrape into group3 at the moment but yes they probably only need to beat either Japan or Argentina to progress

Indeed, the seeding were way too far out.  Now it would be …

Group 1: IRE, NZ, FRA, RSA
Group 2: SCO, ENG, ARG, AUS
Group 3: FIJ, WAL, GEO, SAM

Japan and Italy would have had to go through qualifiers.

[mr.bluesky]

So Farrells four game ban has now been reinstated meaning he will now miss the first two group games of the World Cup. I would not bother taking him to be honest
 

[bigden40]

Don’t follow the logic given for 4 games.  I do, however, think it’s fair that they include the Ireland game as he would have missed it if properly banned the week before.

But the entry point for this offence is 6 games (as the point out) but they’re mitigating it for good behaviour  which is weird given that he’s a repeat offender. 

Why not just admit that they want him to be available for England in RWC? 

[timsussex]

I do wonder if RWC coaches will be telling players to run head first into any player they see standing upright to try and draw a red card

[mr.bluesky]

I do wonder if RWC coaches will be telling players to run head first into any player they see standing upright to try and draw a red card

I doubt it, and risk a serious head or neck injury themselves. With TMO every tackle now gets scrutinised in detail, it would soon be spotted. 
Players like Farrell who is a serial offender have just got to learn to tackle properly

[ulstersubbie]

I see the Boks handed the AB's their heaviest ever defeat at Twickers, 35-7. Only a warm up match, but a significant result nonetheless.

[mr.bluesky]

I see the Boks handed the AB's their heaviest ever defeat at Twickers, 35-7. Only a warm up match, but a significant result nonetheless.

Impressive result indeed considering they only beat Argentina by one point fairly recently.  ( a game they should have lost if Argentina took their conversion chances)

[bigden40]

I see the Boks handed the AB's their heaviest ever defeat at Twickers, 35-7. Only a warm up match, but a significant result nonetheless.

Yes.  Although worth noting that NZ played more than half the match with 14 players.

[bigden40]

And Fiji to beat England.  I’m liking my RWC wager of Fiji qualifying for quarters at the expense of Wales.

[mr.bluesky]

And Fiji to beat England.  I’m liking my RWC wager of Fiji qualifying for quarters at the expense of Wales.

On current form I'd wager England not making it out of the group stages too 

[ulstersubbie]

And Fiji to beat England.  I’m liking my RWC wager of Fiji qualifying for quarters at the expense of Wales.

Well you called that result right!   

[webpunter]

And Fiji to beat England.  I’m liking my RWC wager of Fiji qualifying for quarters at the expense of Wales.

Rugby WC ....

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[David1970]

Watched England Fiji match, that was a very embarrassing game, not just the score but the way England played. So many things to be fixed, it will take a long time and a willingness to change.

[chrishornx]

Watched England Fiji match, that was a very embarrassing game, not just the score but the way England played. So many things to be fixed, it will take a long time and a willingness to change.

Deep breath, get through the world cup then dispense with Farrell, Ford, Marler, Cole, Vunipola, May, Youngs, Care and maybe George and start all over again with fresh talent 

[bigden40]

Watched England Fiji match, that was a very embarrassing game, not just the score but the way England played. So many things to be fixed, it will take a long time and a willingness to change.

Some embarrassing stats there for England's forwards:
- Earl, 5 carries for 16 metres (opposite number 8 Mata had 19 for 61 metres)
- Cole and Chessum each had ONE carry for 1 metre and ONE tackle each!