2023-24 Football season

[StingRay]

Not much time for recovery as I see the fixture list is scheduled to be released on 15th June, just over 2 weeks from now, with festivities due to begin on 12th August, giving us almost 11 weeks to speculate on who will/who won't, etc. This may seem a bit biased, but can I start with chelsea, spurs and west ham as relegation favourites!

[ulstersubbie]

All London clubs, well I suppose the capital is over represented in the Premiership.   

[StingRay]

All London clubs, well I suppose the capital is over represented in the Premiership.   

Local derbies do actually make it difficult to compete, as the form book often goes out the window! 

[mr.bluesky]

Looks like the Saudi Pro league clubs are beginning to flex their financial muscles with a number of ex Premier league players signing for Saudi clubs . They are obviously being offered mega buck contracts. You can't blame players signing for these clubs but the standard of football will not be very good.  I think the Premier league will still have the major pulling power when Clubs like Manchester City, Manchester Utd, Liverpool , Chelsea, Arsenal  and Newcastle come calling.

[willie loman]

So Craig Brown has died, another example of a successful manager who never had much of a career as a player,  oddly enough he never did that well  with various clubs after getting the push by scotland,  in his personal life, a bit of a grannie grabber!, nowt wrong with that.

[WARSZAWA16]

Premier League fixtures 2023-4. Club by club guide:

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Championship fixtures 2023-4. Club by club guide:

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League 1 fixtures 2023-4. Club by club guide:

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League 2 fixtures 2023-4. Club by club guide:

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The dates below are the dates that the Premier League have promised to release the confirmed dates and kick off times by (television):

August/September Games - 5th July 2023
October - 29th July 2023
November - 13th September 2023
December/January - 11th October 2023
February - 6th December 2023
March - 25th January 2024
April - 21st February 2024
MW 35 - 23rd March 2024
MW36 - 6th April 2024
MW 37 - 14th April 2024
MW38 - Post MW 37

[Conkers13]

Got to meet Craig brown quite a few times. A friend of ours had terminal cancer and was a big utd fan.
We organised a golf day to raise funds for him. Craig got donations of tickets and shirts traffic for a lot of clubs in the North West.
He also arranged for my friend and his sons to go to old Trafford to meet fergie and he players.

Rip craig

[mr.bluesky]

So Craig Brown has died, another example of a successful manager who never had much of a career as a player,  oddly enough he never did that well  with various clubs after getting the push by scotland,  in his personal life, a bit of a grannie grabber!, nowt wrong with that.

Always came across as a decent sort of bloke , never had a bad word to say about anyone , like the late Bobby Robson . Old school managers

[mr.bluesky]

So it seems that Declan Rice is on the verge of signing for Arsenal for £105 million , crazy money, he's a decent player but no way is he worth £105 million. Considering James Maddison has signed for Spurs for £40 million, a similar sort of player. If Rice is worth £105 million then what is Harry Kane worth 
Spurs have already turned down offers of £70 million from Bayern Munich for Kane.
Pretty sure West Ham can buy 3 or 4 decent players with the money they receive for Declan Rice, a good bit of business for them

[Jumping Jack Flash]

So it seems that Declan Rice is on the verge of signing for Arsenal for £105 million , crazy money, he's a decent player but no way is he worth £105 million. Considering James Maddison has signed for Spurs for £40 million, a similar sort of player. If Rice is worth £105 million then what is Harry Kane worth 
Spurs have already turned down offers of £70 million from Bayern Munich for Kane.
Pretty sure West Ham can buy 3 or 4 decent players with the money they receive for Declan Rice, a good bit of business for them

Kane won’t go for a similar amount to Rice, Rice is much younger and Kane is about to enter the last year of his contract. Spuds won’t risk letting him move for nothing next year so they will cash in and that in itself strengthens the purchasing club’s negotiating power.

[daviemac]

Considering James Maddison has signed for Spurs for £40 million,

From what I gather the stumbling block for Newcastle in their pursuit of him was the £170,000 pw wages Spurs were offering, we weren't prepared to pay that much so didn't outbid Spurs.

[mr.bluesky]

From what I gather the stumbling block for Newcastle in their pursuit of him was the £170,000 pw wages Spurs were offering, we weren't prepared to pay that much so didn't outbid Spurs.

Coventry City will receive £450,000 cut from the transfer fee as we originally sold him to Norwich and had sell on clauses written into the contract.
I believe Declan Rice is going to be on £200,000 a week at Arsenal.

[FiveKnuckles]

So it seems that Declan Rice is on the verge of signing for Arsenal for £105 million , crazy money, he's a decent player but no way is he worth £105 million.

I don't know what to think.  Heart says NO but head says trust Arteta.  £105m is 2 decent players.

Anyway I initiation song is sorted;     External Link/Members Only

[shed]

From what I gather the stumbling block for Newcastle in their pursuit of him was the £170,000 pw wages Spurs were offering, we weren't prepared to pay that much so didn't outbid Spurs.

Strange decision in my humble opinion. Don't see him winning anything at Spurs so from a career point of view it's a neutral move. I did read he wanted to move to a London club. Wasn't aware if the wages situation. Personally I don't like him or rate him as a player. If Kane does move then Spurs will struggle for top ten . Teams like Villa and Brighton will be stronger next season and Chelsea will be strong again as they will only be in domestic cup competitions. So the league will be the main focus for them. 

[daviemac]

Strange decision in my humble opinion. Don't see him winning anything at Spurs so from a career point of view it's a neutral move. I did read he wanted to move to a London club. Wasn't aware if the wages situation. Personally I don't like him or rate him as a player. If Kane does move then Spurs will struggle for top ten . Teams like Villa and Brighton will be stronger next season and Chelsea will be strong again as they will only be in domestic cup competitions. So the league will be the main focus for them.

Newcastle have a strict wage structure, they have to until the revenue increases, Bruno's the top earner at £160,000 followed by Alexander Isak on £120,000 after that there's only Trippier and Nick Pope on £100,000 and there's no way Maddison is worth more than them.

We're in the process of signing the Italian international Sandro Tonali and he's reportedly going to be on around £133,000 and I know who I would prefer between him and Maddison. Have to say though I think there's some negotiations going on to offer some players improved contracts.

[mr.bluesky]

Sounds like Newcastle are ensuring they don't fall foul of the financial fair play regulations too like other clubs have been breaking them . Those that have been breaking the rules nothing seems to be happening to them 

[timsussex]

cant believe anyone would move to Spurs - if when they lose Kane they will be relegation material

[mr.bluesky]

cant believe anyone would move to Spurs - if when they lose Kane they will be relegation material

Especially if Son goes too. Surely it's only a matter of time before a big club closes in on him
 

[Jumping Jack Flash]

Especially if Son goes too. Surely it's only a matter of time before a big club closes in on him
 

I think that the partnership is greater than the sum of its parts. They will be less effective at League level without each other.

[daviemac]

Sounds like Newcastle are ensuring they don't fall foul of the financial fair play regulations too like other clubs have been breaking them . Those that have been breaking the rules nothing seems to be happening to them 

They've brought 'anti Chelsea' rules in, they were signing players on long term deals, 8 or 9 years and dividing the transfer fees over that period the new rule means a 5 year cap on what the transfer fee can be spread over.

There's also talk of a cap of 70% of income to spend on transfers and wages.

Newcastle are trying to do things the right way and build slowly, though the unexpected champions league place has accelerated things a bit.

[Malvolio]

Coventry City will receive £450,000 cut from the transfer fee as we originally sold him to Norwich and had sell on clauses written into the contract.
I believe Declan Rice is going to be on £200,000 a week at Arsenal.

I can understand Cov getting a sell-on fee from when Norwich sold him to Leicester - and Norwich getting a similar sell-on fee from Leicester, but I'm surprised part of the latter would trickle down to Cov seven years later.

[mr.bluesky]

I can understand Cov getting a sell-on fee from when Norwich sold him to Leicester - and Norwich getting a similar sell-on fee from Leicester, but I'm surprised part of the latter would trickle down to Cov seven years later.

There must have been something in the contract when Coventry first sold him to Norwich  that they would get a percentage from any subsequent transfer fees. I know Norwich will be getting considerably more. This is probably standard practice with a lot of transfer deals for young players with potential. Maddison came through Coventry's youth academy.

[timsussex]

I wonder if any of the big transfers have negotiated pay deals with their new clubs that include deferred salaries as is common in Baseball?

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It would seem to have advantages to the players and the clubs in these days of FFP

[daviemac]

I wonder if any of the big transfers have negotiated pay deals with their new clubs that include deferred salaries as is common in Baseball?

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It would seem to have advantages to the players and the clubs in these days of FFP

Can't see UEFA allowing that especially as they've changed the rules, as of 1st July transfer fees can only be spread over the first 5 years of contracts, plus the max 70% of income spent on transfers and wages. Deferring wages would have a serious effect on a club's future finances, not forgetting clubs ship players out to get them off the wage bill.

Does baseball have anything similar to FFP regulations?

[mr.bluesky]

Can't see UEFA allowing that especially as they've changed the rules, as of 1st July transfer fees can only be spread over the first 5 years of contracts, plus the max 70% of income spent on transfers and wages. Deferring wages would have a serious effect on a club's future finances, not forgetting clubs ship players out to get them off the wage bill.

Does baseball have anything similar to FFP regulations?

I don't know about baseball but most American sports do have a salary cap, The NBA,(basketball) MLS , NFL (American football) and NHL ( Ice Hockey) have strict salary cap rules. They also have the draft system where the teams who finished bottom of their respective leagues have first pick of the up and coming talent. Transfer fees are rare but players are often traded or swapped  for drafted picks.
Melbourne Storm an Australian Rugby League team broke the NRL salary cap rule a number of years ago, they had to play the whole of the following season without winning any points so no matter how many games they won they would finish bottom of the league with zero points

[daviemac]

I don't know about baseball but most American sports do have a salary cap, The NBA,(basketball) MLS , NFL (American football) and NHL ( Ice Hockey) have strict salary cap rules. They also have the draft system where the teams who finished bottom of their respective leagues have first pick of the up and coming talent. Transfer fees are rare but players are often traded or swapped  for drafted picks.
Melbourne Storm an Australian Rugby League team broke the NRL salary cap rule a number of years ago, they had to play the whole of the following season without winning any points so no matter how many games they won they would finish bottom of the league with zero points

So they defer wages as a way of getting round the salary cap, instead of increasing the pay they increase the length of time it's paid, but with no salary cap in football there's nothing to gain from deferred wages.

[timsussex]

So they defer wages as a way of getting round the salary cap, instead of increasing the pay they increase the length of time it's paid, but with no salary cap in football there's nothing to gain from deferred wages.

Thought it was an interesting article as an example of the schemes that sports clubs have used and total current wages are part of FFP regs

Its quite famous in USA so I would hope that EUFA have accounted for it in their FFP rules mind you it took them a while to catch up to Chelsea using long contracts to defer transfer costs and most of us believe the top clubs treat FFP as advisory
 
rugby union has a team salary cap - and severe punishments for teams breaking it -inc straight relegation for a top team
but I doubt that we will be seeing Man City in the championship

It does however have advantages for players, kick the tax bill down the road, as one of the baseball players pointed out while playing he made $$$ from endorsements so was happy to defer especially if he blew most of it. I dont suppose we will see many of todays players penniless and running a pub though.

[mr.bluesky]

Thought it was an interesting article as an example of the schemes that sports clubs have used and total current wages are part of FFP regs

Its quite famous in USA so I would hope that EUFA have accounted for it in their FFP rules mind you it took them a while to catch up to Chelsea using long contracts to defer transfer costs and most of us believe the top clubs treat FFP as advisory
 
rugby union has a team salary cap - and severe punishments for teams breaking it -inc straight relegation for a top team
but I doubt that we will be seeing Man City in the championship

Yes Saracens were found guilty  of breaking the salary cap and given such a big points deduction  that relegation was a certainty (although they bounced  back to the Premiership after just one season). Not that having a salary cap has done Rugby union clubs any good as last season has seen three clubs Wasps, Worcester and London Irish go out of business. Wasps and Worcester mid season and London Irish at the end of the season. All the top flight Rugby union clubs bar one or two make massive losses and only exist because they are bank rolled by rich owners. Top flight Rugby Union in this country is a shambles

[mr.bluesky]

So new season and Chelsea are back in the groove throwing their money about. £32 million on Villarreal striker Nicolas Jackson to go with the £52 million spent on striker Nkunku from Red Bull Leipzig. Interesting to see how that's going to work out. For their sake they better hit the ground running. Could be a good bit of business considering Arsenal blew £100 million on just one player. It seems as though Pochettino is beginning to clear out the deadwood at Chelsea. Will Pochettino last longer than the 6 games Tuchel had in charge 
They have Fat Frank anxiously waiting by his phone for the call 

[Makaveli123]

Buzzing with the Declan rice signing although I still think city will win the league with pep in charge. Sure they will love to do 4 in a row and outdo uniteds 3 peat

[shed]

. Will Pochettino last longer than the 6 games Tuchel had in charge 
They have Fat Frank anxiously waiting by his phone for the call 

Tuchel was the manager at Chelsea for 100 games 

[mr.bluesky]

Tuchel was the manager at Chelsea for 100 games 

True, I meant to say six games into the new season 

[shed]

Good riddance.

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[mr.bluesky]

Good riddance.

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That's about his level, perhaps Fat Frank will be the next to make the switch.

[jackdaw]

The Sandro Tonali signing by Newcastle is a major coup.

[mr.bluesky]

Seems to be quite a few players from the Premier league off to sign for Saudi clubs for mega bucks but looking at the list of names mentioned I don't think they will be missed. Jordan Henderson of Liverpool the latest to be linked to a move to the Saudi Arabian league but at 33 years of age you can't blame him for one big mega bucks move in the twilight of his career. Before this they would usually head to the Semi retirement league of the MLS.

[shed]

Seems a decent choice. Unfortunately 

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[Blackpool Rock]

Mason Mount leaving Chelsea for Man Utd

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[Thephoenix]

Good riddance.

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Why's that?

[Jumping Jack Flash]

Why's that?

He’s a vastly overrated manager, someone who thanks that following a glittering playing career the path into management would be simple and paved with gold, there’s an arrogance there.

As someone who played under some top coaches none of their tactical nous rubbed off on slippy G, he has no plan B and is utterly clueless. You only have to look at what Emery has achieved at Villa with slippy’s squad compared with what slippy himself managed to achieve with the same players.

[shed]

Mason Mount leaving Chelsea for Man Utd

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Very good signing. Knows the premiership, young and will be a great contribution.

[shed]

Why's that?

Dumb question ⁉️ But elequently answered by JJF.

[Thephoenix]

He’s a vastly overrated manager, someone who thanks that following a glittering playing career the path into management would be simple and paved with gold, there’s an arrogance there.

As someone who played under some top coaches none of their tactical nous rubbed off on slippy G, he has no plan B and is utterly clueless. You only have to look at what Emery has achieved at Villa with slippy’s squad compared with what slippy himself managed to achieve with the same players.

I'm impressed that you know what he thinks chum.

It's clear from your description of the guy and the comments from The Shed, that your views are somewhat prejudiced.
I agree about his poor managerial record at Villa.
Rangers wasn't a good testing ground for him.

As someone who was such a great player for club and country I wish him well, and hope like all of us he can learn from his mistakes and return to manage in the Premiership again....though maybe not at Liverpool....at least not until he gets his act together.

[Jumping Jack Flash]

I'm impressed that you know what he thinks chum.

It's clear from your description of the guy and the comments from The Shed, that your views are somewhat prejudiced.
I agree about his poor managerial record at Villa.
Rangers wasn't a good testing ground for him.

As someone who was such a great player for club and country I wish him well, and hope like all of us he can learn from his mistakes and return to manage in the Premiership again....though maybe not at Liverpool....at least not until he gets his act together.

I’m a Villa fan so my views of him are prejudiced by that and you agree with me anyway.

He’s tactically inflexible and his man management skills are poor. He started well at Villa, he brought his back room team with him to Villa Park and the wheels came off when Michael Beale left to manage QPR. After Beale left the players really had no clue about game management and clearly Beale was the footballing brains in the management group. As I understand it he had the Clough approach to the training pitch in that he left it to others and by the time a game started his staff were not encouraged to voice an opinion and the tactics remained unchanged regardless of what was happening on the pitch.

Yes he was a great player but great players don’t always make good managers. I’d be amazed if he managed in the premier league ever again and him taking the Saudi oil money highlights that.

[Thephoenix]

I’m a Villa fan so my views of him are prejudiced by that and you agree with me anyway.

He’s tactically inflexible and his man management skills are poor. He started well at Villa, he brought his back room team with him to Villa Park and the wheels came off when Michael Beale left to manage QPR. After Beale left the players really had no clue about game management and clearly Beale was the footballing brains in the management group. As I understand it he had the Clough approach to the training pitch in that he left it to others and by the time a game started his staff were not encouraged to voice an opinion and the tactics remained unchanged regardless of what was happening on the pitch.

Yes he was a great player but great players don’t always make good managers. I’d be amazed if he managed in the premier league ever again and him taking the Saudi oil money highlights that.

Thanks for your interesting insight.

There are many examples of great players not making good manages, and as you say if it's easy money for him over there he may not have the motivation to stick his neck out again.

[Jumping Jack Flash]

Thanks for your interesting insight.

There are many examples of great players not making good manages, and as you say if it's easy money for him over there he may not have the motivation to stick his neck out again.

I never understood the “Gerrard will manage Liverpool one day” hype. That’s just media bollocks and misty eyed fans looking for a manager that gets them, understands them and is one of them. Like Souness was, like Dalglish was, like the boot room guys like Paisley, Moran and Evans were. Why would Gerrard now even be in contention? I think the Villa did Liverpool a favour in exposing Gerrard’s ineptitude.

When Klopp moves on from Anfield then it won’t be a novice, relatively unproven manager that replaces him, it will be one of the top coaches in the world because the Liverpool job is one of the biggest jobs in world football.

[Blackpool Rock]

I never understood the “Gerrard will manage Liverpool one day” hype. That’s just media bollocks and misty eyed fans looking for a manager that gets them, understands them and is one of them. Like Souness was, like Dalglish was, like the boot room guys like Paisley, Moran and Evans were. Why would Gerrard now even be in contention? I think the Villa did Liverpool a favour in exposing Gerrard’s ineptitude.

When Klopp moves on from Anfield then it won’t be a novice, relatively unproven manager that replaces him, it will be one of the top coaches in the world because the Liverpool job is one of the biggest jobs in world football.

Didn't he actually have success with the under 18's youth team at Liverpool before moving to Rangers, I guess on the face of it success with the kids at Anfield would have given a sense of optimism which was then enhanced further by getting a title for Rangers which was their 1st in 10 years albeit in a 2 horse race

The wheels came off at Villa and he didn't seem to be able to change games or turn things around like a great Manager needs to be able to do, realistically Gerrard and Fat Frank along with Ole simply haven't lived up to the expected hype and proves that being great players and having nouse / leadership on the field isn't necessarily the same as shouting from the touchline

In Gerrards case i'm assuming it's a good paycheck and he's realised he won't cut it in the Prem (given the lack of interest) so would rather go to Saudi for a few years than manage a Championship side
Needs to make sure he doesn't get involved in any bar room brawls out there though 

[mr.bluesky]

Seems a decent choice. Unfortunately 

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He knows how to get clubs promoted from the Championship having done it twice at Norwich.  I expect with the parachute payments he will get Leeds back in the Premier league at the first attempt  .

[Jumping Jack Flash]

Didn't he actually have success with the under 18's youth team at Liverpool before moving to Rangers, I guess on the face of it success with the kids at Anfield would have given a sense of optimism which was then enhanced further by getting a title for Rangers which was their 1st in 10 years albeit in a 2 horse race

The wheels came off at Villa and he didn't seem to be able to change games or turn things around like a great Manager needs to be able to do, realistically Gerrard and Fat Frank along with Ole simply haven't lived up to the expected hype and proves that being great players and having nouse / leadership on the field isn't necessarily the same as shouting from the touchline

In Gerrards case i'm assuming it's a good paycheck and he's realised he won't cut it in the Prem (given the lack of interest) so would rather go to Saudi for a few years than manage a Championship side
Needs to make sure he doesn't get involved in any bar room brawls out there though 

Lampard at least tried the “apprentice” route with a season at Derby in the Championship.

My team beat Lampard’s Derby in the play offs in 2018 and it was almost a sliding doors moment. Villa moved forward and are now in Europe but Derby went backwards. Lampard then went to Chelsea and his managerial career has stalled since.

[mr.bluesky]

Lampard at least tried the “apprentice” route with a season at Derby in the Championship.

My team beat Lampard’s Derby in the play offs in 2018 and it was almost a sliding doors moment. Villa moved forward and are now in Europe but Derby went backwards. Lampard then went to Chelsea and his managerial career has stalled since.

I don't think a year at Derby was long enough for him, he jumped ship too soon to move into the big league and has always struggled. I think all managers should start their managerial  "apprenticeships" at lower league clubs who don't have vast amounts of money to spend learning the ropes then see how good they are, or become assistant managers learning from a good manager like Arteta did at Manchester city before taking over at Arsenal