BBC programme re: Romanian trafficking

[scutty brown]

released on iPlayer before broadcast

External Link/Members Only

[bodybuilder1997]

Can I borrow someone’s BBC iPlayer account , I cba making an account 😕😕

[daviemac]

Can I borrow someone’s BBC iPlayer account , I cba making an account 😕😕

Making light of such a serious subject, if I wasn't a mod I'd call you a tosser and a wanker.

If you don't care about the issues raised in programs like that the don't watch them, no need to come on here trying to be a smart arse.   

[Goldfinch]

Broadcast on BBC2 Monday 24th January 11:15pm

[Longshot]

Just watched it on iplayer and its fucking bone chilling.

I never have and never will book a romanian escort for this reason, youre just fuelling the traffickers.  I hope more punters can take the same view.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Seems .. the Rom goverment and police need to get their house in order for starters!.

I mean what other european country has that problem?.

No wonder Rom girls look so disintrested and pissed off poor souls!...

[bodybuilder1997]

Making light of such a serious subject, if I wasn't a mod I'd call you a tosser and a wanker.

If you don't care about the issues raised in programs like that the don't watch them, no need to come on here trying to be a smart arse.   

Apologies, genuinely wasn’t my intention to do that 😔😔

[Taggart]

Just watched it on iplayer and its fucking bone chilling.

I never have and never will book a romanian escort for this reason, youre just fuelling the traffickers.  I hope more punters can take the same view.

Never have nor will I ever pay a Romanian escort, and fool those who do.
Really needs a boycott as IMO, just based on this programme.  Rom pimps are a primary cause in the decline of decent escorts. Look at the complaints on service.

Nearly 10% of listed escorts on AW are Roms, tip of the iceberg when you take brothels into account.

[alabama1]

Never have nor will I ever pay a Romanian escort, and fool those who do.
Really needs a boycott as IMO, just based on this programme.  Rom pimps are a primary cause in the decline of decent escorts. Look at the complaints on service.

Nearly 10% of listed escorts on AW are Roms, tip of the iceberg when you take brothels into account.

Although i accept that many Roms are trafficked, i have seen some excellent independent Roms in London over the years. You are showing a lack of knowledge on the subject by calling anyone who has seen a Romanian a fool ! This one instantly springs to mind : /www.adultwork.com/5593306 or External Link/Members Only , (reviewed by me). 

[scutty brown]

Although i accept that many Roms are trafficked, i have seen some excellent independent Roms in London over the years. You are showing a lack of knowledge on the subject by calling anyone who has seen a Romanian a fool ! This one instantly springs to mind : /www.adultwork.com/5593306 or External Link/Members Only , (reviewed by me). 

She may have been an excellent fuck from your point of view, but it probably just shows that she's been brainwashed, trained and intimidated into performing. Just like a performing dog. With girls being introduced to sex work at around age 12, it's inevitable that by age 20 many of them will perform "excellently" - it's all they know. It still counts as sexual exploitation.
Your comments simply show a willingness to deny the problem

[alabama1]

She may have been an excellent fuck from your point of view, but it probably just shows that she's been brainwashed, trained and intimidated into performing. Just like a performing dog. With girls being introduced to sex work at around age 12, it's inevitable that by age 20 many of them will perform "excellently" - it's all they know. It still counts as sexual exploitation.
Your comments simply show a willingness to deny the problem

It's not denial, its fact. It is simply not true that 100 % of Romanians are trafficked !

[RedKettle]

It's not denial, its fact. It is simply not true that 100 % of Romanians are trafficked !

But how do you know which are?  It is a terrible problem and not one that just relates to Romanians of course, there can be similar issues with British women etc etc.  I am not getting at you but it is something that we should all think about and each of us try and minimise the risk of exploitation - and without ripping into each other, I was called a racist and a nazi on another thread for saying I do not punt with Romanians.  Every punter has to make their own decisions as to how they minimise the risk, just as we all make different decisions on minimising risk to sexual health, security etc.

[latecomer]

There is an article on the BBC News website this morning showing a video (some 9 minutes long) which I guess is a shortened version of the programme.  It's a sad story.

[dpicardsalvage]

Harrowing stuff

Whether or not they "appear" trafficked when you see them over here at 20+ they have likely been in the system since 12/13/14

Worth a watch for anyone

[hendrix]

But how do you know which are?  It is a terrible problem and not one that just relates to Romanians of course, there can be similar issues with British women etc etc.  I am not getting at you but it is something that we should all think about and each of us try and minimise the risk of exploitation - and without ripping into each other, I was called a racist and a nazi on another thread for saying I do not punt with Romanians.  Every punter has to make their own decisions as to how they minimise the risk, just as we all make different decisions on minimising risk to sexual health, security etc.

+1

[lillythesavage]

It's not denial, its fact. It is simply not true that 100 % of Romanians are trafficked !

Have you wondered how a women from a poor country, quite likely with little education, finds her way to London and manages to find the deposit and documents to rent a Central London flat?

External Link/Members Only,  this ad was highlighted on another thread, in this case it obvious escorting, it may not always be.

[Mr Sinister]

But how do you know which are?  It is a terrible problem and not one that just relates to Romanians of course, there can be similar issues with British women etc etc.  I am not getting at you but it is something that we should all think about and each of us try and minimise the risk of exploitation - and without ripping into each other, I was called a racist and a nazi on another thread for saying I do not punt with Romanians.  Every punter has to make their own decisions as to how they minimise the risk, just as we all make different decisions on minimising risk to sexual health, security etc.

Exactly why just stop at Romanians? A well balanced view.
Near most wgs you see are trafficked, exploited in some type of way so if you feel so strongly about it then bow out as you are only adding feul to the fire.

Its like taking recreational drugs, you don't see what happens 'behind the scenes', production and how many people have lost their lives but people still do it.

[LLPunting]

But how do you know which are?  It is a terrible problem and not one that just relates to Romanians of course, there can be similar issues with British women etc etc.  I am not getting at you but it is something that we should all think about and each of us try and minimise the risk of exploitation - and without ripping into each other, I was called a racist and a nazi on another thread for saying I do not punt with Romanians.  Every punter has to make their own decisions as to how they minimise the risk, just as we all make different decisions on minimising risk to sexual health, security etc.

  RK.

The coppers involved weren't shown to demonstrate alot of inspired policing in trying to crack the problem here.
Have to say the few Rom flats and brothels I've been tempted to in the past have never looked as dire as those portrayed in the doco, even so most all were shabby and unkempt enough and soulless in the reception by the SPs that I've walked.  I was truly shocked about the plight of the girls back in Romania.
What I didn't get, and I thought it was a bit mis-represented by the journo, was that despite the lack of evidence and cooperation of the girls to nail the traffickers, the brothels themselves are illegal entities so why couldn't the Police close them down and place the girls in temporary protective custody?  That would at least be more disruptive.   
I haven't finished watching the doco yet but were the girls asked for passports?  The absence of which would again be cause for more temporary protection, wouldn't it?  Was there any follow up on the ownership of the vacated premises?  Landlords being tapped for being complicit would be some headway, albeit of limited consolation.

[luv2kiss54]

Thanks for the heads up i will catch up with the programme. Ive not booked a Romanian escort for years, good ones are very rare.

[chrisintcov]

Exactly why just stop at Romanians? A well balanced view.
Near most wgs you see are trafficked, exploited in some type of way so if you feel so strongly about it then bow out as you are only adding feul to the fire.

Its like taking recreational drugs, you don't see what happens 'behind the scenes', production and how many people have lost their lives but people still do it.

“Near most wgs you see are trafficked, exploited in some type of way...”.

That is an extraordinary statement. Can you please give us the links to the sources for this statement.

[Mr Sinister]

“Near most wgs you see are trafficked, exploited in some type of way...”.

That is an extraordinary statement. Can you please give us the links to the sources for this statement.

Its not really, if you talk to a WG and she opens up to you question her how girls get here, into this line of work, bonds to pay to pimps to sort out paperwork etc...

The BBC programme is nothing new and is something that has being happening to women for a long time, it is naive to think this girl is trafficked, this girl is not just based on nationality/appearance. I have long made peace on how I morally feel about punting and whatever negative contribution my actions may cause.

As the poster I quoted above you're never going to really know so make the best choices you can.

[GingerBoy11]

I watched last night.
Compared to the documentary on Channel 4 a few months back, around the Brazilian Girls, this was very poor journalism imo.
There were so many gaps in the story (why was the Mothers daughter in the boot? Why was the Dad not invovled? Why is the Dad casually smoking a cig in London whilst his daughter is back in the hands of the Traffikers?) and no clear resolutions to the problem were posed.
The policing demonstrated in the show was also woefully inadequate. . .and the main Police bloke interviewed seemed fairly clueless as to what was going on. . .

The Romanian Culture/Law/Authorities need to nip this problem in the bud, and the UK Gov should be providing Rom more support to avoid this steam of vulnerable women being trafficked to the UK. . .

[daviemac]

Its not really, if you talk to a WG and she opens up to you question her how girls get here, into this line of work, bonds to pay to pimps to sort out paperwork etc...

Your statement that "Near most wgs you see are trafficked, exploited in some type of way" is just wrong. No doubt there are too many who are coerced or trafficked but to say 'near most' is utter bollocks.

Just because an escort chooses to be represented by an agency doesn't mean they are being exploited, well no more than actors, singers or models are being exploited by their agents for them to organise their work.

[standardpostage]

Just seen it. Interesting.

[RedKettle]

RK.

The coppers involved weren't shown to demonstrate alot of inspired policing in trying to crack the problem here.
Have to say the few Rom flats and brothels I've been tempted to in the past have never looked as dire as those portrayed in the doco, even so most all were shabby and unkempt enough and soulless in the reception by the SPs that I've walked.  I was truly shocked about the plight of the girls back in Romania.
What I didn't get, and I thought it was a bit mis-represented by the journo, was that despite the lack of evidence and cooperation of the girls to nail the traffickers, the brothels themselves are illegal entities so why couldn't the Police close them down and place the girls in temporary protective custody?  That would at least be more disruptive.   
I haven't finished watching the doco yet but were the girls asked for passports?  The absence of which would again be cause for more temporary protection, wouldn't it?  Was there any follow up on the ownership of the vacated premises?  Landlords being tapped for being complicit would be some headway, albeit of limited consolation.

I have not watched the programme and have little direct experience with Romanian girls.  I had a couple of experiences years ago with girls that could not really speak English and have steered clear ever since.  A view that was reinforced by the negative comments on UKP about Romanian WGs that all tend to reinforce the fact they are probably not happy to be doing the work.

I suspect the police see it as mission impossible but will do their best with over stretched resources.  I agree with the measures you suggest, it certainly is a case where you actually wish they would enforce what is a stupid law in other situations.

The more we reduce the demand the less people will be looking to increase the supply is my simple view.  However I am not preaching, just giving my personal point of view as a racist nazi! (just getting that in before others do)

[NickyBobby]

Watched the preview programme and it was depressing, the Romanian police obviously being bought off by the traffickers and ours were useless as others said.

I tend to go for English girls mainly to reduce the risk of visiting someone who’s being forced into it (which is an offence for the punter) Have seen a couple of EE girls who were well reviewed on here beforehand, both were articulate and upbeat about their choice to do their job, for example one was raising money to invest in a business back home

[Jayj]

Shocking

[audi_dude]

it's awful for the girls but it can land you in a lot of shit. seeing a trafficked rom is a strict liability offence - which means you go to prison even if you had no idea that she was trafficked.

[Neverthere]

Wow well this was such an eye opener but I fear this maybe more prevalent in the wider community than we give credit for.
Yes so this was based on Romania but this not solely a Romanian problem as undoubtedly more widespread with more nationalities but maybe higher percentage are from Romania we see.

Really harrowing for the really young girls shown in the documentary and certainly makes you think twice. So yes for me I have met some Romanian SP'S but they have been well established and reviewed and certainly independent with no signs of coercion from others and yes this just my opinion.

Nationalities when punting have never been an issue for me and yes I always think due diligence on here, but now when see this? Maybe change some habits.

[hunkybc]

It makes you remember just how bad and dangerous it is out there for some of these girls. Saddened by this.

[Bonker]

I found the programme upsetting and dusturbing. Those poor girls. Those evil, heartless pimps. I haven't seen a romanian wg for many years but still feel sick to have been part of the exploitation.

Time to reflect and reassess this 'business'.

[Doormatt]

Mr sinister please explain...." I have long made peace on how I morally feel about punting and whatever negative contribution my actions may cause."

[Kev40ish]

It’s more a sad state of the prostitution laws that helps drive this sort of exploitation.
If it was a far more open and less seedy occupation it would help decrease this kind of abuse.
Legalising controlled brothels and allowing workers to work together would help them protect themselves.
There is not an easy answer, but if this allows the demand that is obviously there to be met it will help drive down the need for so much exploitation.

[Lewis]

I'm surprised only Viva Street got a mention as "a popular escort website" and not Adultwork.

Mayne it's because though of the recent pulling up of socks at Adultwork and not letting so many fakes create profiles anymore.

Viva Street, despite their claims, seem to let anyone create profiles along with using the same phone numbers over and over again.

[Neo]

I'm surprised only Viva Street got a mention as "a popular escort website" and not Adultwork.

Mayne it's because though of the recent pulling up of socks at Adultwork and not letting so many fakes create profiles anymore.

Viva Street, despite their claims, seem to let anyone create profiles along with using the same phone numbers over and over again.

I'm surprised the site is still around. Hasn't been banned which our country likes to do it treated as a dodgy site. Thats how the government typically acts when it comes to such a topic

[scutty brown]

I'm surprised the site is still around. Hasn't been banned which our country likes to do it treated as a dodgy site. Thats how the government typically acts when it comes to such a topic

So name a site that has been banned

[scutty brown]

It’s more a sad state of the prostitution laws that helps drive this sort of exploitation.
If it was a far more open and less seedy occupation it would help decrease this kind of abuse.
Legalising controlled brothels and allowing workers to work together would help them protect themselves.
There is not an easy answer, but if this allows the demand that is obviously there to be met it will help drive down the need for so much exploitation.

Go to Holland or Germany and even most of the legal prostitution is controlled by criminal gangs. Trafficking there is even harder to control because it becomes even easier to disguise and hide. Legalisation does not work

[S.X. MacHine]

Go to Holland or Germany and even most of the legal prostitution is controlled by criminal gangs. Trafficking there is even harder to control because it becomes even easier to disguise and hide. Legalisation does not work

I think your assertion is simplistic, based as it is on the German experience. It seems that Romanian girls working in legal German mega brothels can, indeed, be under the control of pimps. However, you make no mention of the law and practise surrounding legal brothels in New Zealand where small, female run brothels operate successfully to the exclusion of pimps.
I understand the situation in certain Australian states is analogous.
One WG, now married and retired, whom I used to see regularly, worked in a friend’s brothel in Australia and was very happy with her circumstances.
Legalisation can work, if done correctly.

[daviemac]

I'm surprised the site is still around. Hasn't been banned which our country likes to do it treated as a dodgy site. Thats how the government typically acts when it comes to such a topic

I would also like to know what sites have been banned in this country as I can't think of one..   

[Mr_Shins]

Have you wondered how a women from a poor country, quite likely with little education, finds her way to London and manages to find the deposit and documents to rent a Central London flat?

External Link/Members Only,  this ad was highlighted on another thread, in this case it obvious escorting, it may not always be.

It appears there is an assumption that because there is a "sergei" involved, they are necessarily here "against their will" having been "kidnapped and groomed at a young age". There may be many that are, and whilst a few end up in England, probably many end up in Germany or similar.

The "sergei" acts as their guide - finds them property, possibly gives them a certain amount of "protection" against violent clients etc. The one running the house isn't necessarily male either, in fact in the UK they're usually female ex pros.

Many of the girls are here willingly, possibly having contacted someone before they came. The sergeis probably prefer it that way anyway, as they are less likely to end up in trouble with the law. Possibly, if it's a man, he has a side job here like building work.

It is very difficult for police to operate when they need to obtain search warrants from a court, and whilst you can't just have officers bursting in anywhere, there needs to be an improvement of ease of access for police to do their job if they are going to fight organised crime.

Change the law, make trafficking illegal but make provisions for sensible laws for those willing to be in the profession and whilst there will still be protests "we don't want that kind of thing in our street" it will be a massive improvement.

[daviemac]

It appears there is an assumption that because there is a "sergei" involved, they are necessarily here "against their will" having been "kidnapped and groomed at a young age". There may be many that are, and whilst a few end up in England, probably many end up in Germany or similar.

The "sergei" acts as their guide - finds them property, possibly gives them a certain amount of "protection" against violent clients etc. The one running the house isn't necessarily male either, in fact in the UK they're usually female ex pros.

Many of the girls are here willingly, possibly having contacted someone before they came. The sergeis probably prefer it that way anyway, as they are less likely to end up in trouble with the law. Possibly, if it's a man, he has a side job here like building work.

It is very difficult for police to operate when they need to obtain search warrants from a court, and whilst you can't just have officers bursting in anywhere, there needs to be an improvement of ease of access for police to do their job if they are going to fight organised crime.

Change the law, make trafficking illegal but make provisions for sensible laws for those willing to be in the profession and whilst there will still be protests "we don't want that kind of thing in our street" it will be a massive improvement.

It's statements like this, based on pure ignorance, that is one one the reasons they can get away with it so easily.

Trafficking IS illegal and it covers a very wide range from the very basic of giving a prostitute a lift from one house to another to bringing them into the country.

Also prostitution itself is not illegal, only certain aspects of it are.

[lillythesavage]

I found the programme upsetting and dusturbing. Those poor girls. Those evil, heartless pimps. I haven't seen a romanian wg for many years but still feel sick to have been part of the exploitation.

Time to reflect and reassess this 'business'.

I have not watched it for that reason, and if it has had that effect or your usual jovial comedy posting, I do not think I need to.

Sure as others say, there are those that come willingly, maybe replying to ads like the one I posted, but what happens once they get here? Is it the simple deal of paying commission as the advert claimed, or do they get travel paid, be in debt from the off, and walk into all sorts of problems?

We all read reviews of keen newcomers, giving great service, quickly becoming jaded and miserable, is that when they find out?

I am sure none of us have a major problem with people from other countries helping each other to earn money, but the way some are willing to exploit women from their own country, not just Romanians, is very upsetting to read and view, @Scutty and others are regularly posting of convictions.

Of course there are women doing the job of their own free will, of all nationalities, they are not always to be found on AW, and the seeking type threads seem more popular than ever, with lots of mentions of other sites, there is a thread about out call women who do not publish phone numbers, I have used both, and have no fear of third parties being involved, not to say I am 100% correct, there could be in the background obviously unknown to me, but it is not the impression I was given by these part timers. Every one I meet has a job outside of selling pussy.

[Mr_Shins]

It's statements like this, based on pure ignorance, that is one one the reasons they can get away with it so easily.

Trafficking IS illegal and it covers a very wide range from the very basic of giving a prostitute a lift from one house to another to bringing them into the country.

Also prostitution itself is not illegal, only certain aspects of it are.

A lot of things are illegal, and some things should stay illegal. The girls must be willing, and grooming is a crime (whether for prostitution or not) but if that grooming was done overseas they can only be prosecuted in their own country, and the Romanians clearly need to sort that out.

Many WGs choose to join an agency - a Romanian coming over to this country by choice and contacting her "sergei" is no different really, as long as it was her own decision, and she can leave whenever she no longer wants to do this.

[Straightsix]

What constitutes 'grooming'? Do you mean like buying gifts?

[Mr_Shins]

What constitutes 'grooming'? Do you mean like buying gifts?

(found online but corrected)

grooming
(verb)
    Preparing a person for a position requiring skilled behaviour, especially by providing opportunity for practice and guidance in making the right decisions.

If done in the arena of sex to someone who is underage, or someone of any age who is unwilling, it is illegal.

[Neo]

Hearing that phone call absolutely killed me

[Strawberry]

What constitutes 'grooming'? Do you mean like buying gifts?

Can very subtle if you have Google you should find a few articles, happens to adults and in domestic abuse.

Basically garnering trust.

As I understand it could be providing a place to hang out, giving the person attention, listening to music, watch videos, eat sweets, crisps, here's a sip of beer, if you don't do what I say this could be withdrawn or I may tell your parents or your family may be harmed...

[daviemac]

A lot of things are illegal, and some things should stay illegal. The girls must be willing, and grooming is a crime (whether for prostitution or not) but if that grooming was done overseas they can only be prosecuted in their own country, and the Romanians clearly need to sort that out.

Many WGs choose to join an agency - a Romanian coming over to this country by choice and contacting her "sergei" is no different really, as long as it was her own decision, and she can leave whenever she no longer wants to do this.

You are waffling on about something else that you have no idea about. Grooming only applies to children under 16, not adults.    Can you link to where it says whatever is currently illegal in regard to the sex industry is going to be made legal.   

Yet another one posting utter bollocks as fact.

[Mr_Shins]

You are waffling on about something else that you have no idea about. Grooming only applies to children under 16, not adults.    Can you link to where it says whatever is currently illegal in regard to the sex industry is going to be made legal.   

Yet another one posting utter bollocks as fact.

What is currently against the law:

- Grooming a child
- Having sex with a trafficked sex worker.

So what qualifies as a trafficked sex worker? One who was groomed when they were younger, even if they now come to the country and act as a sex worker voluntarily because their mind has somehow been "perverted"?

If they are not consenting to have sex with you, it's simply rape.

Please clarify to me what you consider to qualify them as being "trafficked for sex" or what the law does?

[StingRay]

Yes, the trafficking situation in Romania is awful and it seems from the program that the local police are not especially interested.

However, Romania was depicted as 3rd world when this is not actually the case - was it really necessary to show a horse-drawn cart so often? Yes, out in the country there are some local farmers that use a horse and cart on the roads (actually illegal on public highways) but this is far from commonplace and Romania is quite civilised for a country in Eastern Europe. I've travelled extensively in Romania and know this for a fact!

Whether or not to visit a Romanian girl in the UK? Yes, of course you have to be careful due to trafficking, but the same applies for girls from Russia, Brazil and, more recently, Dominca.

I have had many very pleasant experiences, OK a few years back, with with some very lovely Romanian girls and never got the feeling that they were coerced - think Gabriela, Alexa and Pixie from HoD - no, I''m not Karl before somebody suggests it!!