Doesn't see White Mans

[Gordon Bennett]

Blimey! This one's a turn up for the books........ Only sees black men!

Obviously been previous threads and discussions about the ladies who "don't see black mans"  but this one has turned things on their head.

I'd like to feign outrage and dismay at her not letting me, a white man, see her but she's not really my type. Is she anyone's though?????

External Link/Members Only

[subg]

Shes a domme. The 'only fuck black guys' bit is part of the attempt to market herself at subs and cucks.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Well if thats what she wants and humilation at cash dispensers and what was it 300 odd an hour?, pass on that one.

She likes BBC's big black cocks makes me laugh, theres a builder in perne road in Cambridge been there a whilse got a sign up saying BBC or Bob Black Construction.

Perhaps not a UKP member?.

[unclepokey]

I thought I'd seen pretty much everything BUT it's her right I suppose.

[davidgood]

Well this is a turn up for the book, a slim, OK looking girl who only wants BBCs.

Usually it is fat, ugly old swingers who insist on BBCs only.

I see that she has a black boyfriend and only does porn shoots with a well endowed black pornstar, so really into them.

I suspect that she, or the boyfriend, have realised that there is a bit of a niche market in providing services for guys who might be turned down by other SPs.

Regards,

davidgood

[Gordon Bennett]

Well if thats what she wants and humilation at cash dispensers and what was it 300 odd an hour?, pass on that one.

She likes BBC's big black cocks makes me laugh, theres a builder in perne road in Cambridge been there a whilse got a sign up saying BBC or Bob Black Construction.

Perhaps not a UKP member?.

Ah, poor Bob! Makes me wonder how many business signs out there innocently promote firms with names like DFK, OWO, CIM, etc etc

[The Owl]

Not fussed, plenty more pussy on AW if I'm excluded for a good or arbitrary reason.

[mr.bluesky]

Not fussed, plenty more pussy on AW if I'm excluded for a good or arbitrary reason.

Likewise.  I won't loose any sleep over it. She's got a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp anyway.

[lovemachine]

She used to call herself Luna toxic on her previous profile.

[cpw_19]

No great loss, this one.

[houseboot]

Well this is a turn up for the book, a slim, OK looking girl who only wants BBCs.

Usually it is fat, ugly old swingers who insist on BBCs only.

I see that she has a black boyfriend and only does porn shoots with a well endowed black pornstar, so really into them.

I suspect that she, or the boyfriend, have realised that there is a bit of a niche market in providing services for guys who might be turned down by other SPs.

Regards,

davidgood

Yes, £300 per hour is a niche market.

Not many punters here, black or white, will pay that.

[pewpewpew]

Yes, £300 per hour is a niche market.

Not many punters here, black or white, will pay that.

plus a 50% deposit

[mace-window]

Blimey! This one's a turn up for the books........ Only sees black men!

Obviously been previous threads and discussions about the ladies who "don't see black mans"  but this one has turned things on their head.

I'd like to feign outrage and dismay at her not letting me, a white man, see her but she's not really my type. Is she anyone's though?????

External Link/Members Only

No offense but she has been on my pornstar hotlist for a while (she was known as Luna Toxxxic). Unlike most black guys, I am more into skinny - curvy Women (not fat like some brother like). That said, I would say "I only see black guy" is still classified as racist in my eyes, but kind of funny seeing this for first time in this hobby other years seeing WG's saying I don't see blacks:D. Now would I see her for £300 when they is no positive reviews on this site? Maybe not but in the near future though would love to see her as some her porn stuff turn me on.

That said I want to add a bit on non-black women saying they only date blacks. I normally just fuck them or avoid them as they are not good relationship material. Like some women who don't date blacks they either have something mental to them, only messing with a black man once she hit the wall (no longer desirable to most white men - or men period) and would of not dealt with blacks when they were younger and at the top of their attractiveness and finally only interested in a black person for his color of his skin and nothing else.

Personally I don't mess with those type of women when dating is concerned. Only benefit for them is FWB or one night stand. If I would to be in a relationship with a woman, I would like to think a woman would be interested in me personally and who I am rather than what color my skin is.

But back to the question. Yes I would love to fuck the shit out of Luna Toxxxic. Maybe not for £300 or 50% deposit.

[mace-window]

Well this is a turn up for the book, a slim, OK looking girl who only wants BBCs.

Usually it is fat, ugly old swingers who insist on BBCs only.

I see that she has a black boyfriend and only does porn shoots with a well endowed black pornstar, so really into them.

I suspect that she, or the boyfriend, have realised that there is a bit of a niche market in providing services for guys who might be turned down by other SPs.

Regards,

davidgood

Trust me those fat, ugly old swingers would never give the light of day to us black guys when they were younger and more attractive days. 

[Payyourwaymate]

No offense but she has been on my pornstar hotlist for a while (she was known as Luna Toxxxic). Unlike most black guys, I am more into skinny - curvy Women (not fat like some brother like). That said, I would say "I only see black guy" is still classified as racist in my eyes, but kind of funny seeing this for first time in this hobby other years seeing WG's saying I don't see blacks:D. Now would I see her for £300 when they is no positive reviews on this site? Maybe not but in the near future though would love to see her as some her porn stuff turn me on.

That said I want to add a bit on non-black women saying they only date blacks. I normally just fuck them or avoid them as they are not good relationship material. Like some women who don't date blacks they either have something mental to them, only messing with a black man once she hit the wall (no longer desirable to most white men - or men period) and would of not dealt with blacks when they were younger and at the top of their attractiveness and finally only interested in a black person for his color of his skin and nothing else.

Personally I don't mess with those type of women when dating is concerned. Only benefit for them is FWB or one night stand. If I would to be in a relationship with a woman, I would like to think a woman would be interested in me personally and who I am rather than what color my skin is.

But back to the question. Yes I would love to fuck the shit out of Luna Toxxxic. Maybe not for £300 or 50% deposit.

I knew a white girl that I worked with that only liked black guys and she was actually a nice girl with not too many issues. Had bad past boyfriends though until I convinced her to find one with money and stop falling for the dreamselling  . No idea what she's doing now though. I also worked with a black girl that only dated white guys and could not stand black guys. She had a lot of issues and trapped an insecure white guy (Her words not mine) that was a high earner by getting pregnant  . Personal preference I would say contributes but is not the overruling deciding factor on what makes a chick good relationship material. I knew a girl and came across girls that had not much preference but would fuck everybody back in Uni. No racial preference but deffo not good relationship material there  . It's a tough one.

[ratedj]

I knew a white girl that I worked with that only liked black guys and she was actually a nice girl with not too many issues. Had bad past boyfriends though until I convinced her to find one with money and stop falling for the dreamselling  . No idea what she's doing now though. I also worked with a black girl that only dated white guys and could not stand black guys. She had a lot of issues and trapped an insecure white guy (Her words not mine) that was a high earner by getting pregnant  . Personal preference I would say contributes but is not the overruling deciding factor on what makes a chick good relationship material. I knew a girl and came across girls that had not much preference but would fuck everybody back in Uni. No racial preference but deffo not good relationship material there  . It's a tough one.

I completely concur with the highlighted statement.

[mace-window]

I knew a white girl that I worked with that only liked black guys and she was actually a nice girl with not too many issues. Had bad past boyfriends though until I convinced her to find one with money and stop falling for the dreamselling  . No idea what she's doing now though. I also worked with a black girl that only dated white guys and could not stand black guys. She had a lot of issues and trapped an insecure white guy (Her words not mine) that was a high earner by getting pregnant  . Personal preference I would say contributes but is not the overruling deciding factor on what makes a chick good relationship material. I knew a girl and came across girls that had not much preference but would fuck everybody back in Uni. No racial preference but deffo not good relationship material there  . It's a tough one.

Yeah I agree. It's not the deciding factor but a one of big ones for me. Again about that girl who only liked black guys , we never know what happens behind closed doors so and personally if she is going for the dream-selling type of guy (guys who offer the world but never deliver I assume payyourwaymate right?) she aren't someone who would know or cares about finding a good man regardless of race. But again you know her more so I could be wrong.

Those black person who only date white people have many problems like you said and would say to a white friend who would date such a woman to run away from those type people now. The black girl for example must have BPD or something of that short 100%. That white guy must be a rich beta (beta provider) and likely never had very attractive women jumping hops to sleep with him when he was younger.

My thing is I would not want to settle with someone who have a fetish of my skin color but don't care about me as a person. And like that black girl who hates black guys but loves white men, once she gets what she wants from you (a baby and alimony), she will bounce and hop to the next fetish. 

By the way, I am not against interracial dating. I just got a problem with people who would take it to far and write on their facebook page how much they love that "insert color" person or one her favorite novels is a interracial romantic erotic story.

[GreyDave]

Well if thats what she wants and humilation at cash dispensers and what was it 300 odd an hour?, pass on that one.

She likes BBC's big black cocks makes me laugh, theres a builder in perne road in Cambridge been there a whilse got a sign up saying BBC or Bob Black Construction.

Perhaps not a UKP member?.

I think I watched a rival firm on tele BBC 2   

[Lou2019]

I knew a white girl that I worked with that only liked black guys and she was actually a nice girl with not too many issues. Had bad past boyfriends though until I convinced her to find one with money and stop falling for the dreamselling  . No idea what she's doing now though. I also worked with a black girl that only dated white guys and could not stand black guys. She had a lot of issues and trapped an insecure white guy (Her words not mine) that was a high earner by getting pregnant  . Personal preference I would say contributes but is not the overruling deciding factor on what makes a chick good relationship material. I knew a girl and came across girls that had not much preference but would fuck everybody back in Uni. No racial preference but deffo not good relationship material there  . It's a tough one.

I wasn’t going to comment but I can’t believe this bullshit ! So you’re suggesting that girls that date black guys aren’t nice girls and have issues! you are an idiot! Never read so much shit in my life. I can’t believe people even think like that.

[Lou2019]

No offense but she has been on my pornstar hotlist for a while (she was known as Luna Toxxxic). Unlike most black guys, I am more into skinny - curvy Women (not fat like some brother like). That said, I would say "I only see black guy" is still classified as racist in my eyes, but kind of funny seeing this for first time in this hobby other years seeing WG's saying I don't see blacks:D. Now would I see her for £300 when they is no positive reviews on this site? Maybe not but in the near future though would love to see her as some her porn stuff turn me on.

That said I want to add a bit on non-black women saying they only date blacks. I normally just fuck them or avoid them as they are not good relationship material. Like some women who don't date blacks they either have something mental to them, only messing with a black man once she hit the wall (no longer desirable to most white men - or men period) and would of not dealt with blacks when they were younger and at the top of their attractiveness and finally only interested in a black person for his color of his skin and nothing else.

Personally I don't mess with those type of women when dating is concerned. Only benefit for them is FWB or one night stand. If I would to be in a relationship with a woman, I would like to think a woman would be interested in me personally and who I am rather than what color my skin is.

But back to the question. Yes I would love to fuck the shit out of Luna Toxxxic. Maybe not for £300 or 50% deposit.

“those type of women” WTF!

[Payyourwaymate]

I wasn’t going to comment but I can’t believe this bullshit ! So you’re suggesting that girls that date black guys aren’t nice girls and have issues! you are an idiot! Never read so much shit in my life. I can’t believe people even think like that.

Where did I say that? If you want to be emotional go do it elsewhere.

[mace-window]

Where did I say that? If you want to be emotional go do it elsewhere.

Don't worry she is butt hurt. That and she is a type of woman that prefer black guys and a bit pissed off by our comments. End of the day, the comments was not directed to her but I agree Payyourwaymate, she can go some where else to get emotional at.

[Payyourwaymate]

Don't worry she is butt hurt. That and she is a type of woman that prefer black guys and a bit pissed off by our comments. End of the day, the comments was not directed to her but I agree Payyourwaymate, she can go some where else to get emotional at.

I don't think she understood the context of my post towards your previous response about white girls that like black guys and she went and jumped the gun that I said white girls that deal with black guys have issues and aren't nice . Amazing inference skills and deductive reasoning on her part  . She could have just asked me for clarification by what I said and I would have been happy to explain, but instead she will rather result to written abuse first  .

[mace-window]

I don't think she understood the context of my post towards your previous response about white girls that like black guys and she went and jumped the gun that I said white girls that deal with black guys have issues and aren't nice . Amazing inference skills and deductive reasoning on her part  . She could have just asked me for clarification by what I said and I would have been happy to explain, but instead she will rather result to written abuse first  .

To me it seems like some service providers these past few days can't bother to take time to read and understand ones comment before jumping the gun and getting all emotional. Like Logic disappears once they write the first couple of words.

[Lou2019]

Where did I say that? If you want to be emotional go do it elsewhere.

but that’s exactly what you said, I’m not emotional, but it was a very offensive comment. I’ll say no more I’ve said my bit.

[Payyourwaymate]

but that’s exactly what you said, I’m not emotional, but it was a very offensive comment. I’ll say no more I’ve said my bit.

No it's not. Your comprehension of english is appalling. Re-read all of the posts prior to what I said. However, lets clear this since it's clear you cannot understand written english in a conversational manner with context. I was responding to a fellow member who felt strongly against white girls that only liked black guys for the reasons he outlined, offering a counterpoint that preference alone is not a determining factor in completely writing a girl off interms of relationship value and gave an example where I knew a white girl who only liked black guys, who did not have the issues that he outlined in his point he presented in his post. I've come across white girls that only like black guys and were not as my fellow member mace outlined in his points. The sole example was just to provide an anecdote that situations can not really be seen in black and white. In case you do not understand the context of what I mean by black and white I mean situtations can be more complex than they seem at first observations. I then gave another example of a black girl I knew that only went out with white guys, did not like black guys and actually did have psychological issues although I did not elaborate, I just said "issues" mace, understanding the context of the conversation knew what I meant in his response after.

Now, miss lou lou...where in what I have written is there a suggestion that I feel that girls that go out with black guys have issues and are not nice?

Furthermore....calling me an idiot is saying your bit? Are you an emotional adolescent girl or a woman that can have a conversation?

Jesus Christ  . Please don't butt into conversations where you do not understand or try to to understand the context and hurl childish insults. If you cannot understand this post then I suggest you go back to school and read up on English language. I'm dissappointed. So, in your words "I'll say no more, I've said my bit".

[mace-window]

No it's not. Your comprehension of english is appalling. Re-read all of the posts prior to what I said. However, lets clear this since it's clear you cannot understand written english in a conversational manner with context. I was responding to a fellow member who felt strongly against white girls that only liked black guys for the reasons he outlined, offering a counterpoint that preference alone is not a determining factor in completely writing a girl off interms of relationship value and gave an example where I knew a white girl who only liked black guys, who did not have the issues that he outlined in his point he presented in his post. I've come across white girls that only like black guys and were not as my fellow member mace outlined in his points. The sole example was just to provide an anecdote that situations can not really be seen in black and white. In case you do not understand the context of what I mean by black and white I mean situtations can be more complex than they seem at first observations. I then gave another example of a black girl I knew that only went out with white guys, did not like black guys and actually did have psychological issues although I did not elaborate, I just said "issues" mace, understanding the context of the conversation knew what I meant in his response after.

Now, miss lou lou...where in what I have written is there a suggestion that I feel that girls that go out with black guys have issues and are not nice?

Furthermore....calling me an idiot is saying your bit? Are you an emotional adolescent girl or a woman that can have a conversation?

Jesus Christ  . Please don't butt into conversations where you do not understand or try to to understand the context and hurl childish insults. If you cannot understand this post then I suggest you go back to school and read up on English language. I'm dissappointed. So, in your words "I'll say no more, I've said my bit".

I think her whole post was projection towards me but somehow got directed towards you - the person who was trying to argue your point against mine. Not the bright one here if you ask me. That or she did not want to go ham on me as I am black and she loves that black chocolate and don't want to miss her chance to get another one towards her  .

Anyways I understand your point before and kind of agree by the way.

[Payyourwaymate]

I think her whole post was projection towards me but somehow got directed towards you - the person who was trying to argue your point against mine. Not the bright one here if you ask me. That or she did not want to go ham on me as I am black and she loves that black chocolate and don't want to miss her chance to get another one towards her  .

Anyways I understand your point before and kind of agree by the way.

I'm black too. This is what makes it so funny. Her going against me for something I did not say or try to convey through my words makes no sense. Got me feeling like them white knights being backstabbed by their princess after going out on a limb for them, confused and disappointed  .

I hope guys that white knight chicks on this forum see this shit, lessons to be learned here LOL.

[mace-window]

I'm black too. This is what makes it so funny. Her going against me for something I did not say or try to convey through my words makes no sense. Got me feeling like them white knights being backstabbed by their princess after going out on a limb for them, confused and disappointed  .

I hope guys that white knight chicks on this forum see this shit, lessons to be learned here LOL.

WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it. I thought you were white. You never know who is who online these days.

[Dopedj]

WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it. I thought you were white. You never know who is who online these days.

I knew he was black judging from his choices on the thicker thread...And not for the reasons you think .

[Rochelle]

I wasn’t going to comment but I can’t believe this bullshit ! So you’re suggesting that girls that date black guys aren’t nice girls and have issues! you are an idiot! Never read so much shit in my life. I can’t believe people even think like that.

Clearly reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Nowhere did he suggest that.

[ratedj]

I wasn’t going to comment but I can’t believe this bullshit ! So you’re suggesting that girls that date black guys aren’t nice girls and have issues! you are an idiot! Never read so much shit in my life. I can’t believe people even think like that.

I do not think he's suggested that anywhere. If anything, he's actually suggested the opposite!

[Okiedokie]

Yeah I agree. It's not the deciding factor but a one of big ones for me. Again about that girl who only liked black guys , we never know what happens behind closed doors so and personally if she is going for the dream-selling type of guy (guys who offer the world but never deliver I assume payyourwaymate right?) she aren't someone who would know or cares about finding a good man regardless of race. But again you know her more so I could be wrong.

Those black person who only date white people have many problems like you said and would say to a white friend who would date such a woman to run away from those type people now. The black girl for example must have BPD or something of that short 100%. That white guy must be a rich beta (beta provider) and likely never had very attractive women jumping hops to sleep with him when he was younger.

My thing is I would not want to settle with someone who have a fetish of my skin color but don't care about me as a person. And like that black girl who hates black guys but loves white men, once she gets what she wants from you (a baby and alimony), she will bounce and hop to the next fetish. 

By the way, I am not against interracial dating. I just got a problem with people who would take it to far and write on their facebook page how much they love that "insert color" person or one her favorite novels is a interracial romantic erotic story.

Why do you have problems with people who enjoy “interracial romantic erotic novels” whilst not being against interracial dating/relationships? You must be an idiot

[GorillaWarfare]

It's the same as the girls who won't fuck black men/Asian men/whatever men - if they want to turn down people's money, let them.

[smiths]

I wasn’t going to comment but I can’t believe this bullshit ! So you’re suggesting that girls that date black guys aren’t nice girls and have issues! you are an idiot! Never read so much shit in my life. I can’t believe people even think like that.

My advice is sort your brain out as what you read and understood by that post isn't my reading of it. Another WG who cant wait to get offended, UKP isn't the place for such people in my opinion, it IS a punters forum after all.

[no2punter]

Probably only a pornstar could pull this off, might have a niche black following that can make it work. But no normal WG could in this country, especially at that ridiculous rate.

I've talked to a lot of girls who don't see black men but see South Asians (which is a lot of the EEs) – they usually say they see South Asian men because if they didn't, that'd be a third+ of their clientele gone – for various social and personal reasons, South Asian men disproportionately see WGs. But if even that was such a major blow, I can't imagine what not seeing white men would do to a normal WG's income. It seems like black punters are a comparatively fairly small percentage of the overall punting population.

[The Highwayman]

I have no issue with a girl stating that she only sees black guys, in fact, being white, I am kind of glad to see it. All SP girls have a right to their personal choice regarding who they get intimate with, I do not see this as racist (although I accept in some cases it may be born from that).

There are plenty of girls who won't see black guys, strangely, early in my punting career, two young, fit, white girls I (separately) questioned about this, (at the end of a meet), both had boyfriends who were black. The first said, black men were her type so she didn't want the potential confusion of falling for a punter. The second intimated that it was her boyfriend who didn't like her seeing black men. Of course, it's a sweeping generalisation but we also know some girls are concerned about "dimensions". So I like to believe that mostly it's not racist, without denying that some of it might be.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

I have no issue with a girl stating that she only sees black guys, in fact, being white, I am kind of glad to see it. All SP girls have a right to their personal choice regarding who they get intimate with, I do not see this as racist (although I accept in some cases it may be born from that).

There are plenty of girls who won't see black guys, strangely, early in my punting career, two young, fit, white girls I (separately) questioned about this, (at the end of a meet), both had boyfriends who were black. The first said, black men were her type so she didn't want the potential confusion of falling for a punter. The second intimated that it was her boyfriend who didn't like her seeing black men. Of course, it's a sweeping generalisation but we also know some girls are concerned about "dimensions". So I like to believe that mostly it's not racist, without denying that some of it might be.

Prozzie logic it a seems at work again;!..

[Ali Katt]

Where's her incall location Castle Grayskull?

[DylzzCee]

What the... £300 for an hour.

But it’s her choice, like another user mentioned she’s a domme, so she’s probably just doing this to enhance her profile etc.

[Ali Katt]

What the... £300 for an hour.

But it’s her choice, like another user mentioned she’s a domme, so she’s probably just doing this to enhance her profile etc.

Aspiring porn star with the prices to match?

[David1970]

£300 for an ugly anorexic racists, hold me back. 

[Rochelle]

£300 for an ugly anorexic racists, hold me back.

How does that make her racist exactly?

[David1970]

How does that make her racist exactly?

She refuses to see people of a certain race. If I refused to deal with people of a certain race in my work I would correctly be prosecuted for the race relations laws, because I would be a racist discriminating on race.
How would you feel if a hotel refused you a room based on your colour and what would you call that?
Do you think it is ok for people to be treated differently just because of their skin colour, which is racism?

 

[smiths]

She refuses to see people of a certain race. If I refused to deal with people of a certain race in my work I would correctly be prosecuted for the race relations laws, because I would be a racist discriminating on race.
How would you feel if a hotel refused you a room based on your colour and what would you call that?
Do you think it is ok for people to be treated differently just because of their skin colour, which is racism?

It is of course racism, I note how many WG profiles say they don't see say black men but they aren't racist. If you exclude all black men its obviously racism.

[Rochelle]

She refuses to see people of a certain race. If I refused to deal with people of a certain race in my work I would correctly be prosecuted for the race relations laws, because I would be a racist discriminating on race.
How would you feel if a hotel refused you a room based on your colour and what would you call that?
Do you think it is ok for people to be treated differently just because of their skin colour, which is racism?

You're sounding utterly ridiculous right now. The nature of this business makes it different.

If she has a type of man that she likes and chooses only to see that type, that doesn't make her racist.

[Rochelle]

It is of course racism, I note how many WG profiles say they don't see say black men but they aren't racist. If you exclude all black men its obviously racism.

It's not racist to simply choose which type of people you'd like to spend time with.

[smiths]

It's not racist to simply choose which type of people you'd like to spend time with.

It IS racist to exclude say ALL black punters, what the WG is doing in that scenario is viewing ALL black punters as the same when in reality they are unique individuals. The usual reason such WGs give if any reason is because of a bad experience in the past with a black punter, well black punters aren't all the same bloke are they.

However, its always got to be a WGs choice who she sees and doesn't see, you cant make a WG working of her own free will see someone she doesn't want to. No doubt most of these same WGs have had bad experiences with some white punters but don't exclude ALL white punters as they know that could lead to a severe lack of punters booking them. They may think they can exclude ALL black punters without it leading to a lack of punters overall.

[David1970]

You're sounding utterly ridiculous right now. The nature of this business makes it different.

If she has a type of man that she likes and chooses only to see that type, that doesn't make her racist.

I can see your argument being used by racist who own B&Bs, or my house so I don’t want people of a certain colour, it’s still racism. The woman is a racists, simple

[j_181]

It's not racist to simply choose which type of people you'd like to spend time with.

Sex workers constantly tell us that sex work is work and they should be entitled to all the same rights and legal protections as other types of workers and businesses (which I agree with).

Under the Equality Act 2010 it is unlawful to discriminate in providing goods or services to the public on grounds of age, disability, gender reassignment,pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, or sexual orientation (aka "protected characteristics").

In my opinion, if you want to be treated the same as other workers/businesses, you should have to obey the same laws.