Punting Vs dating Vs sugar babies

[akauya]

in terms of tadalafil daily, I am 32 now and been taking it for a year so far. Its been great for me, I can perform very well every time I see escorts.

Think as well that I started watching porn from a very early age which can cause erection issues. Even though I am physically fit having been lifting weights for the last 14 years.

The stimulus of porn is so much that when you see a naked woman in front of you it is not enough. Nowadays we live in a world where there is an extreme stimulus in the form of women half naked everywhere. Previous generations didn't have such easy access to this hyper stimulus of naked women performing sex acts, etc.

If you go on insta for example the first thing you will see is a half naked woman showing off her ass. So I stopped watching porn now for a long time.

Tadalafil is safe, it hasn't caused me any problems and it is actually good for heart health. People who take ED medication have a lower risk of suffering heart attacks. Technically you can take it for the rest of your life and it will be fine.

It can be embarrassing though, sometimes I take tadalafil before I go to salsa dance classes. If there is a hot girl I can get rock hard boners which is embarrassing! One time I was walking on the street and a hot girl was walking past and I got a big boner, it was very obvious and she looked for a while 

It can be very awkward..

Mate, for what is worth I think you're too young to be relying on ED medication. You said it yourself, you're fit, healthy, go to the gym, etc. By your posts I gather the reason you use ED is mainly psychological rather than physical. Pornography desensitization is a thing (including IG and any other social media, etc.) but there are ways to reverse it.

You also mentioned a couple of times you're too selfish to be in a relationship. A real, committed relationship is never going to be easy, it takes hard work and lots of emotional pain to make it work, but it's worth it. I'm not saying a long term relationship is ideal for everyone but if you haven't tried - properly - you won't know. By stating you're too selfish to be in a relationship you're not giving yourself a chance.

You also said "I embrace risk in life" - I don't think you do. You're avoiding life because normal life comes with risks, relationships come with heartache and disappointments, it seems you're avoiding entering into civvy relationships. I think you're afraid of the commitment and hard work a relationship entails. Falling in love is painful, and stressful but also amazing and incredibly rewarding. By your own admission you started punting aged 18 and now you got used to having sex with hot girls but you also admit that you don't find it very fulfilling. So you took the easy way out (to get sex) avoiding the risks that comes with finding civvy relationships.

Anyway, I think you're doing great by looking after your physical health (apart from taking daily ED medication) maybe it's now time to look after your mental health? It is well known that men, and in particular young men, are less likely than women to seek help. Unfortunately there seems to be a stigma about it - mental health is as important as our physical health.

It's often said that the first step to solve our problems is to recognise we have a problem. So I see a pattern in your posts that makes me think that you know yourself what you're doing may not be ideal for you. In a way you started to recognise that there maybe another way to live that will make your life more fulfilling than what you're currently doing.

As I said above, seek help and give yourself a chance.

Just a thought.

[jamiekinkxxx]

Mate, for what is worth I think you're too young to be relying on ED medication. You said it yourself, you're fit, healthy, go to the gym, etc. By your posts I gather the reason you use ED is mainly psychological rather than physical. Pornography desensitization is a thing (including IG and any other social media, etc.) but there are ways to reverse it.

You also mentioned a couple of times you're too selfish to be in a relationship. A real, committed relationship is never going to be easy, it takes hard work and lots of emotional pain to make it work, but it's worth it. I'm not saying a long term relationship is ideal for everyone but if you haven't tried - properly - you won't know. By stating you're too selfish to be in a relationship you're not giving yourself a chance.

You also said "I embrace risk in life" - I don't think you do. You're avoiding life because normal life comes with risks, relationships come with heartache and disappointments, it seems you're avoiding entering into civvy relationships. I think you're afraid of the commitment and hard work a relationship entails. Falling in love is painful, and stressful but also amazing and incredibly rewarding. By your own admission you started punting aged 18 and now you got used to having sex with hot girls but you also admit that you don't find it very fulfilling. So you took the easy way out (to get sex) avoiding the risks that comes with finding civvy relationships.

Anyway, I think you're doing great by looking after your physical health (apart from taking daily ED medication) maybe it's now time to look after your mental health? It is well known that men, and in particular young men, are less likely than women to seek help. Unfortunately there seems to be a stigma about it - mental health is as important as our physical health.

It's often said that the first step to solve our problems is to recognise we have a problem. So I see a pattern in your posts that makes me think that you know yourself what you're doing may not be ideal for you. In a way you started to recognise that there maybe another way to live that will make your life more fulfilling than what you're currently doing.

As I said above, seek help and give yourself a chance.

Just a thought.

Such wise words!

I am glad that the older generations are alive and well on this forum. The younger generations would do well on occasion to listen and learn from our valid life experiences.

[Mr Sinister]

Mate, for what is worth I think you're too young to be relying on ED medication. You said it yourself, you're fit, healthy, go to the gym, etc. By your posts I gather the reason you use ED is mainly psychological rather than physical. Pornography desensitization is a thing (including IG and any other social media, etc.) but there are ways to reverse it.

You also mentioned a couple of times you're too selfish to be in a relationship. A real, committed relationship is never going to be easy, it takes hard work and lots of emotional pain to make it work, but it's worth it. I'm not saying a long term relationship is ideal for everyone but if you haven't tried - properly - you won't know. By stating you're too selfish to be in a relationship you're not giving yourself a chance.

You also said "I embrace risk in life" - I don't think you do. You're avoiding life because normal life comes with risks, relationships come with heartache and disappointments, it seems you're avoiding entering into civvy relationships. I think you're afraid of the commitment and hard work a relationship entails. Falling in love is painful, and stressful but also amazing and incredibly rewarding. By your own admission you started punting aged 18 and now you got used to having sex with hot girls but you also admit that you don't find it very fulfilling. So you took the easy way out (to get sex) avoiding the risks that comes with finding civvy relationships.

Anyway, I think you're doing great by looking after your physical health (apart from taking daily ED medication) maybe it's now time to look after your mental health? It is well known that men, and in particular young men, are less likely than women to seek help. Unfortunately there seems to be a stigma about it - mental health is as important as our physical health.

It's often said that the first step to solve our problems is to recognise we have a problem. So I see a pattern in your posts that makes me think that you know yourself what you're doing may not be ideal for you. In a way you started to recognise that there maybe another way to live that will make your life more fulfilling than what you're currently doing.

As I said above, seek help and give yourself a chance.

Just a thought.

Well said, relationships also allows you to grow and mature as a person if you've never been in one, exposed yourself emotionally and been open to another person in an honest ans truthful manner then do you truly know who you are?

Also ED medication, while small doses can be a good aid for training whether that be bodybuilding or endurance sports using it long term can have a bad effect on your heart. If you need it for prossies at such a young age then there's definitely something wrong with you both physically and mentally.

[hendrix]

Good posts from akauya and Mr Sinister.

I really don't think it's a good idea for fit young men to be taking ED medication. You're storing up issues however much you might think they're helping you "perform" now.

[gurds]

I will try dating in the next few years.

I make well above average income at the moment but I want to get my income to much higher levels over the next few yrs.

Once income is really high then I think I will try dating.

[Cheshuk]

Interesting responses re effects of taking ed meds young. op's lifestyle resonates and we're the same age. I started punting at 18 too, at Sandys Superstars in the nw, work out 5 times a week, and been using viagra since a teenager (not issue getting boners without, but love the increased control) as it was useful when young and partying. I don't know what will come down the line, but also of the mindset I'll deal with that day if it comes.

Where we differ significantly is that punting has never never been my only avenue. I imagine if it was I'd feel fed up. For as long as I've been sexually active, I've punted, but always had something going on with a girl outside of it whilst never being in a relationship. I think that's why I've never found the lifestyle empty. Until my late 20's was dating at least weekly, with various flings upto about 3 months at best through the honeymoon dating period I think it's called, then just rinse and repeat.

About 5 years ago discovered sa and gradually took the place of dating, since the stunners which were more occasional and took more graft in the dating scene, come in abundance there and when one finished you've got a new one the following week. I've never found much difference between the fulfilment of dating for sex and arrangements as the dynamic with the girl only seems different when I think that's she's getting money, but all other interactions are the same.

From your post, i'm not sure what you're looking for, just general discussion, looking for bareback, whether dating just for sex is worth it (you wrote:
'dating arguably is the most fulfilling option but no man has unlimited choice of women when it comes to dating', so not sure you have any interest in a relationship) or a sex life that's more fulfilling and think if they're not paid you'd get that.

I am glad I spent so much time in civvie dating when I did, as that's possibly why I now enjoy paid sex more, knowing how I can do without monetary involvement and the alleviated hassle.

Personally think you've gotta mix it up, I'd go for seeking first, and some dates, see if you feel any more fulfilment. I just find dating for sex a long winded route of getting from A to B, but do feel it should be explored (or should of by now in your case) for your own self-esteem.

Not in a position to comment on relationships, but I've always been of the mindset I'll miss out on too much now to do it, but do intend to do it some day if I've had my fill.

In short if you're not feeling wha you've been doing, seems pretty straightforward, mix it up and try something new. Good luck

[Doc Holliday]

Thanks Cheshuk an interesting read again.

.. and been using viagra since a teenager (not issue getting boners without, but love the increased control) as it was useful when young and partying.

May I ask what you mean by increased control?

[willie loman]

Good posts from akauya and Mr Sinister.

I really don't think it's a good idea for fit young men to be taking ED medication. You're storing up issues however much you might think they're helping you "perform" now.

is their science behind that observation?

[Cheshuk]

Thanks Cheshuk an interesting read again.

May I ask what you mean by increased control?

no worries

can go for as long and many times as I like with no drop off in boner rigidity and only cum when I'm ready not matter how hot she is 

[Doc Holliday]

Just to clarify a couple of the ED med related comments.

There are no studies into very long term use of Tadalafil or indeed any other of the ED meds in terms of side effects and effectiveness/drug tolerance, beyond two years for Tadalafil and four years for Sidenafil.
The issue with Tadalafil daily, in common with most drugs is that tolerance and therefore reduced efficacy, is more likely to occur with long term daily use, rather than the less frequent ‘on demand’ use.

There are studies that suggest there may be some beneficial effect with ED meds in relation to cardiac health, but it requires more investigation and comparative studies to be definitive. Theoretically anything that produces a vasodilation action could be of some benefit especially if it is frequent use, but that is a gross oversimplification and susceptibility to heart disease is a complex discussion especially in relation to hereditary factors.

[MissWolf]

I will try dating in the next few years.

I make well above average income at the moment but I want to get my income to much higher levels over the next few yrs.

Once income is really high then I think I will try dating.

But you won't because it will never be quite right, quite high enough or there will be something else first, you give me the impression of a lost boy showing off and trying to be the man in some of your posts.
You won't take any of the advice because you think you know better and because in your own way you are addicted to using ED medication and porn.

Join the no flapping thread on off topic and try no porn to see how that affects you, it might take a few months for the positive effects to be noticeable and it will require willpower which I'm not at all confident you have, but you might prove me wrong.

[Doc Holliday]

no worries

can go for as long and many times as I like with no drop off in boner rigidity and only cum when I'm ready not matter how hot she is 

Thanks, I had similar experience when I used it recreationally (other than great difficulty achieving orgasm a second time). I was much older though (early fifties). At that time I was in a bit of a 'spiral' and was punting perhaps around 3/4 times a week and sometimes that many in one day.

The point is that what you and I are experiencing is certainly not 'natural' but is a very artificially drug induced status. Assuming you use ED meds routinely for most sexual encounters this becomes your 'new normal'.

Should you stop tomorrow then at your age and assuming you have no physical cause of ED I would expect you to return to 'normal', but psychologically that may be a difficult process and you will probably have a strong urge to return to using the meds. Took me around six months to get there and it wasn't easy.

At some point say in 10 to 20 years time, then age alone will mean you may well have some physical reasons that your natural erection isn't as strong. Normally at that point you would consider the meds, but if you have already been on them since a teenager then you have a potential big problem.

The philosophy of 'worrying about it when it happens' can be flawed especially if you could have acted sooner? 

[Cheshuk]

But you won't because it will never be quite right, quite high enough or there will be something else first, you give me the impression of a lost boy showing off and trying to be the man in some of your posts.
You won't take any of the advice because you think you know better and because in your own way you are addicted to using ED medication and porn.

Join the no flapping thread on off topic and try no porn to see how that affects you, it might take a few months for the positive effects to be noticeable and it will require willpower which I'm not at all confident you have, but you might prove me wrong.

I will try dating in the next few years.

I make well above average income at the moment but I want to get my income to much higher levels over the next few yrs.

Once income is really high then I think I will try dating.

I don't read his posts that way, I mean he said he does salsa and got a boner in class.. not much of a flex (apologies to salsa dancing members)

I find his posts quite honest.. but do think if you need x income before you're willing to start dating, then you've got a self-esteem issue, not having a dig mate but reads as you're of the opinion you can't get a girl to like you otherwise

Dating takes practice, so best just get out there, at least you can compare results between now and when you're where you want to be.

Although as alluded to by miss wolf, look up hedonic adaptation, the unfortunate human condition of its never enough

[SonofAJohn]

I don't read his posts that way, I mean he said he does salsa and got a boner in class.. not much of a flex (apologies to salsa dancing members)

I find his posts quite honest.. but do think if you need x income before you're willing to start dating, then you've got a self-esteem issue, not having a dig mate but reads as you're of the opinion you can't get a girl to like you otherwise

Dating takes practice, so best just get out there, at least you can compare results between now and when you're where you want to be.

Although as alluded to by miss wolf, look up hedonic adaptation, the unfortunate human condition of its never enough

Think he actually does need higher income to start dating. Those dates are going to be waste of his money and time. Marriage rates are at their lowest, people aren't necessarily having a jolly good time dating each other. Dating apps are terrible and relationships have more risk than reward for young men these days. It is not for everyone.

Those dates will send him right back to seeing escorts. He should just carry on and accept the life he lives.
Tadalafil 5mg in the morning, go to the gym to get your pump, go to work and see an escort for sex whenever.  OP probably should get friends in real life that live a similar lifestyle to him, so he can travel with them etc.

Not everyone gets married, not everyone has a fairytale ending and not everyone lives until they are old.

[mills_and_bhuna]

is their science behind that observation?

Hendrix did say it was only his opinion.
It just so happens I agree.
Aside from the long term effects of using these drugs on the body there is the possibility that you get it in your head that you can't perform without then it becomes very difficult to take steps to wean yourself off them.
Full disclosure.
I've tried Sildenafil and Taladafil but found both to cause indigestion.
I'm finding trying to keep physically fit a much more productive strategy.

[jamiekinkxxx]

I don't read his posts that way, I mean he said he does salsa and got a boner in class.. not much of a flex (apologies to salsa dancing members)

I find his posts quite honest.. but do think if you need x income before you're willing to start dating, then you've got a self-esteem issue, not having a dig mate but reads as you're of the opinion you can't get a girl to like you otherwise

Dating takes practice, so best just get out there, at least you can compare results between now and when you're where you want to be.

Although as alluded to by miss wolf, look up hedonic adaptation, the unfortunate human condition of its never enough

Indeed, it is the very best approach!   

[Cheshuk]

Thanks, I had similar experience when I used it recreationally (other than great difficulty achieving orgasm a second time). I was much older though (early fifties). At that time I was in a bit of a 'spiral' and was punting perhaps around 3/4 times a week and sometimes that many in one day.

The point is that what you and I are experiencing is certainly not 'natural' but is a very artificially drug induced status. Assuming you use ED meds routinely for most sexual encounters this becomes your 'new normal'.

Should you stop tomorrow then at your age and assuming you have no physical cause of ED I would expect you to return to 'normal', but psychologically that may be a difficult process and you will probably have a strong urge to return to using the meds. Took me around six months to get there and it wasn't easy.

At some point say in 10 to 20 years time, then age alone will mean you may well have some physical reasons that your natural erection isn't as strong. Normally at that point you would consider the meds, but if you have already been on them since a teenager then you have a potential big problem.

The philosophy of 'worrying about it when it happens' can be flawed especially if you could have acted sooner? 

There were phases when it was multiple on back to back days, but still finding what works for me there and right now doing quality over quantity.

I have a pretty good grasp of what works now sildenafil wise, always 24 hours off sex or masturbation after. Take 33-50mg for each time I have sex, sometimes 100-200mg if it's a special occasion. So use it minimum weekly.

The truth is I would say if i'm being honest, the most valuable thing i'll ever have is my memories/experiences, so if the consequences of living my prime to the fullest are incurable ed 20 years from now, i'd accept it.

Thanks for the insight, the part in bold was vague and likely the most critical.. by the way it read time off to regain tolerance/increasing the dose wouldn't be sufficient. It's not pressing, as I would be okay with that as a consequence of a life doing what I love to the fullest, but still worth me looking into

[Cheshuk]

Think he actually does need higher income to start dating. Those dates are going to be waste of his money and time. Marriage rates are at their lowest, people aren't necessarily having a jolly good time dating each other. Dating apps are terrible and relationships have more risk than reward for young men these days. It is not for everyone.

Those dates will send him right back to seeing escorts. He should just carry on and accept the life he lives.
Tadalafil 5mg in the morning, go to the gym to get your pump, go to work and see an escort for sex whenever.  OP probably should get friends in real life that live a similar lifestyle to him, so he can travel with them etc.

Not everyone gets married, not everyone has a fairytale ending and not everyone lives until they are old.

I'm not saying dating is the answer, I said above I don't do it myself anymore and I get what I got from that and more from seeking, which op may be suited for. However do think he'd benefit from having experience regular dating, whether successful or not. Then can see which way of meeting girls is best suited for him, which punting exclusively doesn't sound right for him anymore  from his op.

Whether monogamy works, works for some, or is just the best unit for raising children is a whole other discussion, especially when you throw in the abundance of choice in modern society   

[willie loman]

Hendrix did say it was only his opinion.
It just so happens I agree.
Aside from the long term effects of using these drugs on the body there is the possibility that you get it in your head that you can't perform without then it becomes very difficult to take steps to wean yourself off them.
Full disclosure.
I've tried Sildenafil and Taladafil but found both to cause indigestion.
I'm finding trying to keep physically fit a much more productive strategy.

my point is, is there any evidence that long term use of meds has any side effects? they relax your blood vessels today, they will be doing the same job in 10 years time, they will be less effective as we age , nowt to do with the medicine itself. the psychological issue is not the point

[mills_and_bhuna]

my point is, is there any evidence that long term use of meds has any side effects? they relax your blood vessels today, they will be doing the same job in 10 years time, they will be less effective as we age , nowt to do with the medicine itself. the psychological issue is not the point

And they will be doing unintended things as well.
Pretty much every drug ever produced will have had documented long term effects.
Some of these will be serious and some not so.
Medicine is always a case of 'is the cure worse than the problem?'.
I thought Hendrix made a very good point.
Why would a guy in his thirties in good health risk his future health to solve an issue that hasn't cropped up yet?

[SonofAJohn]

And they will be doing unintended things as well.
Pretty much every drug ever produced will have had documented long term effects.
Some of these will be serious and some not so.
Medicine is always a case of 'is the cure worse than the problem?'.
I thought Hendrix made a very good point.
Why would a guy in his thirties in good health risk his future health to solve an issue that hasn't cropped up yet?

Maybe that guy wants to die young..
Here for a good time not a long time

[willie loman]

And they will be doing unintended things as well.
Pretty much every drug ever produced will have had documented long term effects.
Some of these will be serious and some not so.
Medicine is always a case of 'is the cure worse than the problem?'.
I thought Hendrix made a very good point.
Why would a guy in his thirties in good health risk his future health to solve an issue that hasn't cropped up yet?

Eds have been around for quite a few years now, but they seem misunderstood by many, and opposed by many as well, for no real reason it has too be said, the guy uses them as do many young men, cos at that age they give you a bionic hard on,  no evidence at all of any long term problems,

[gurds]

But you won't because it will never be quite right, quite high enough or there will be something else first, you give me the impression of a lost boy showing off and trying to be the man in some of your posts.
You won't take any of the advice because you think you know better and because in your own way you are addicted to using ED medication and porn.

Join the no flapping thread on off topic and try no porn to see how that affects you, it might take a few months for the positive effects to be noticeable and it will require willpower which I'm not at all confident you have, but you might prove me wrong.

I don't watch porn at all for a long time now.

Another issue is I only like white women sexually, and most white women prefer black men or white men on the whole. I am neither white nor black.

All the escorts I've had sex with over the last 14 years have been white.

So dating seems futile exercise really if you can't have enough choice of women compared to other men even despite being 6ft tall and very muscular.

Maybe I will just try sugar daddy road in future.

[Doc Holliday]

...  no evidence at all of any long term problems,

Correct but there is equally no evidence they are safe long term.

There are no studies into very long term use of Tadalafil or indeed any other of the ED meds in terms of side effects and effectiveness/drug tolerance, beyond two years for Tadalafil and four years for Sidenafil.
The issue with Tadalafil daily, in common with most drugs is that tolerance and therefore reduced efficacy, is more likely to occur with long term daily use, rather than the less frequent ‘on demand’ use.

There is evidence of psychological dependence in relation to performance anxiety which is a growing problem in younger men.

[MissWolf]

I don't watch porn at all for a long time now.

Another issue is I only like white women sexually, and most white women prefer black men or white men on the whole. I am neither white nor black.

All the escorts I've had sex with over the last 14 years have been white.

So dating seems futile exercise really if you can't have enough choice of women compared to other men even despite being 6ft tall and very muscular.

Maybe I will just try sugar daddy road in future.

I would strongly suggest that you deal with your lack of self esteem,  please get some professional help with this, attraction within a civvie relationship has very little to do with the colour of your skin in most cases, personality plays the major role in my experience.

I have an ideal man image, none of my long term relationships or any of the best sexual experiences I've had were with men who fitted that image

I know you already go to salsa classes or events, that's a really positive thing but I suggest the reason you are not getting much joy in connecting or finding someone through that channel is more to do with the boner you are romping round with, women notice those kind of things and find it intimidating and uncomfortable, it's really not a good look.

[Cheshuk]

Eds have been around for quite a few years now, but they seem misunderstood by many, and opposed by many as well, for no real reason it has too be said, the guy uses them as do many young men, cos at that age they give you a bionic hard on,  no evidence at all of any long term problems,

not uncommon to be used recreationally. Looked it up.. don't mix with other meds and long term issues seem to be phycological 

External Link/Members Only

[hendrix]

Eds have been around for quite a few years now, but they seem misunderstood by many, and opposed by many as well, for no real reason it has too be said, the guy uses them as do many young men, cos at that age they give you a bionic hard on,  no evidence at all of any long term problems,

I'd say that the OP is already suffering psychological dependency for a drug he doesn't actually need, unless he has an underlying condition like Type 2 diabetes etc which can happen at any age. If and when he decides to get into dating/relationships, needing a tablet at his age to get hard isn't going to be good for his mental health IMHO.

If a chronically unfit 60 year old like me can get an erection most days without meds, then I can't see his situation as healthy.

I do wish him well in working through all the points he's raised.

[willie loman]

I'd say that the OP is already suffering psychological dependency for a drug he doesn't actually need, unless he has an underlying condition like Type 2 diabetes etc which can happen at any age. If and when he decides to get into dating/relationships, needing a tablet at his age to get hard isn't going to be good for his mental health IMHO.

If a chronically unfit 60 year old like me can get an erection most days without meds, then I can't see his situation as healthy.

I do wish him well in working through all the points he's raised.

What is actually so bad about psychological dependency on a pill that is actually useful for your health, not just for your hard on? I believe viagra is good for you, if you feel otherwise, and you are not alone, steer clear.

[hendrix]

What is actually so bad about psychological dependency on a pill that is actually useful for your health, not just for your hard on? I believe viagra is good for you, if you feel otherwise, and you are not alone, steer clear.

So what happens when he can't "perform" with the love of his life (or with someone else but it matters to him) because he forgot the pill, it's in another bag etc? - maybe you (and certainly I) wouldn't give a shit/laugh it off, but I don't think he'll feel great about himself given how he posts.

[gurds]

jim norton is a famous comedian that also took viagra in this 30s, he also has slept with lots of escorts over the yrs

[willie loman]

So what happens when he can't "perform" with the love of his life (or with someone else but it matters to him) because he forgot the pill, it's in another bag etc? - maybe you (and certainly I) wouldn't give a shit/laugh it off, but I don't think he'll feel great about himself given how he posts.

you could look at it from the other end of the telescope, look at the confidence taking a pill that he doesnt need for sex  but  is actually good for his health, does for him, . To be honest its not that important, its been clear to me for years that some men believe starting viagra early will lead to it becoming less effective, and others just dont want to take pills period, i view viagra as a benevolent tablet not just for sex , but for general health, we can just agree to disagree.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Whoops wrong thread!

[JontyR]

I would strongly suggest that you deal with your lack of self esteem,  please get some professional help with this, attraction within a civvie relationship has very little to do with the colour of your skin in most cases, personality plays the major role in my experience.

I have an ideal man image, none of my long term relationships or any of the best sexual experiences I've had were with men who fitted that image

I know you already go to salsa classes or events, that's a really positive thing but I suggest the reason you are not getting much joy in connecting or finding someone through that channel is more to do with the boner you are romping round with, women notice those kind of things and find it intimidating and uncomfortable, it's really not a good look.

Good points. I think that OP seems to be looking at engaging with women from the peacock perspective. Look at my muscles, look at my height, look at my payslip. Yes, there are some individuals that react to that. But far more want a relationship (be that with friends or lovers) where they can be themselves and relax in the compnay of others.

I think this is where the narratives of many "influencers" are quite dangerous. All this bollocks about Alphas and the like. If you can find a way to be confident in your own skin, you'll attract people who are comfortable in theirs. That's where genuine mutual appreciation can come about.

And remember just how many women do you actually want to date? Again if you want to date lots, that will only be really acceptable to someone who wants to do the same. Again...if that works for you then fine. But I'm not sure that is what is being desired here?

Much better than the peacock is to wear the the car, the house and the clothes lightly. These are significant bonuses IF you are a decent guy. If you come across as a prick then it doesn't matter what else you have.

[Mr Sinister]

I find his posts quite honest.. but do think if you need x income before you're willing to start dating, then you've got a self-esteem issue, not having a dig mate but reads as you're of the opinion you can't get a girl to like you otherwise

Dating takes practice, so best just get out there, at least you can compare results between now and when you're where you want to be.

There is some logic to this, If you want to have the best chance of finding the best 'mate'  then you want to be the best version of yourself. So working on your appearance, emotional state, personality and lastly earning potential is something all men should do.

Now if you're working in Primark on an below average wage then yes I would say you won't get very far on the dating market unless you date on that level. If you're earning a decent wage £40k+ or near enough then I would say get out there and date while working on upping your earnings. Don't set a big target like I'll only date when I'm earning £100k because it might take you longer than you realise. I agree get out there and start interacting with civvie women, don't make sex the main aim.

Eds have been around for quite a few years now, but they seem misunderstood by many, and opposed by many as well, for no real reason it has too be said, the guy uses them as do many young men, cos at that age they give you a bionic hard on,  no evidence at all of any long term problems,

A man at that age should be able to get bionic hard ons naturally, if you need medication for this then there is a physical and mental problem with you. Lots of young men are taking ED medication recreationally these days because they have problems whether that be porn addiction, poor diet, psychology issues, low testosterone levels etc....this is something that has been brewing for a while now

What is actually so bad about psychological dependency on a pill that is actually useful for your health, not just for your hard on? I believe viagra is good for you, if you feel otherwise, and you are not alone, steer clear.

You don't seem to understand the effects of psychological dependency on something, it has negative knock on effects to other parts of your life.

Reading more of OP posts he has underlying issues that needs to be addressed.

[Doc Holliday]

Reading more of OP posts he has underlying issues that needs to be addressed.

He does and that adds an extra dimension, specifically in relation to his personal circumstances. To his credit he has been totally honest about his narcissistic traits etc which inevitably influences the discussion, but that aside I think it has been an interesting one?

Threads such as this continue to educate me with regard to the psyche of the ever increasing number of young punters and the challenges they face with 'relationships', be they commercial or otherwise.
I realise in particular that I am part of a very different generation and 'how it was for me' may never apply again?

[jeanphillipe]

Abstain from porn, sex the lot for a month minimum and your body will reset and sex will he so much better. ( my experience)

[gurds]

Abstain from porn, sex the lot for a month minimum and your body will reset and sex will he so much better. ( my experience)

I haven't watched porn for a long time, I don't watch it now. Doesn't make any sense watching other people have sex.

I think I am isolated socially as I work from home and don't socialise much outside of going to gym, I go to salsa class sometimes and yoga.

I find yoga is good but there aren't many girls in either yoga class or salsa and none that I find too attractive, isn't much time to interact with them in yoga as they get changed quickly and leave.

My mental health suffered from years of isolation, I think I used escorts for many years as a convenient way of having sex with lots of women. I don't go to bars or clubs as not my scene and don't drink.

Also I live a different life to many people, I am a professional gambler and make a good living from this and don't pay any tax. This requires lots of mental energy, when you follow a different path to everyone else in life you have less outlets socially. So I basically make a living taking risks. At the same time I have lots of freedom, more than the majority of people.

This is also why I can relate to escorts. Escorts are looked down upon in society by many people even though they make more money than a lot of people, it is just a social stigma.

Money doesn't necessarily equal respect, if you do something that people do not accept or look down on then you won't necessarily get respected.

Meanwhile you could have a bartender that makes less money than you but gets more respect socially, etc.

I think internal validation is more important than external. Hopefully in the future I will find someone that can accept me. In mean time I am trying to improve mental health and may see a therapist to talk through mental blocks and issues surrounding isolation ,etc.

[Mr Sinister]

He does and that adds an extra dimension, specifically in relation to his personal circumstances. To his credit he has been totally honest about his narcissistic traits etc which inevitably influences the discussion, but that aside I think it has been an interesting one?

Threads such as this continue to educate me with regard to the psyche of the ever increasing number of young punters and the challenges they face with 'relationships', be they commercial or otherwise.
I realise in particular that I am part of a very different generation and 'how it was for me' may never apply again?

I know this is a punting forum but having these types of open and healthy discussions is good, times are changing and it can be a challenging time to be a man in this world and men not being able to find spaces to open up a bit and discuss the challenges they face.

[Mr Sinister]

I haven't watched porn for a long time, I don't watch it now. Doesn't make any sense watching other people have sex.

I think I am isolated socially as I work from home and don't socialise much outside of going to gym, I go to salsa class sometimes and yoga.

I find yoga is good but there aren't many girls in either yoga class or salsa and none that I find too attractive, isn't much time to interact with them in yoga as they get changed quickly and leave.

My mental health suffered from years of isolation, I think I used escorts for many years as a convenient way of having sex with lots of women. I don't go to bars or clubs as not my scene and don't drink.

Also I live a different life to many people, I am a professional gambler and make a good living from this and don't pay any tax. This requires lots of mental energy, when you follow a different path to everyone else in life you have less outlets socially. So I basically make a living taking risks. At the same time I have lots of freedom, more than the majority of people.

This is also why I can relate to escorts. Escorts are looked down upon in society by many people even though they make more money than a lot of people, it is just a social stigma.

Money doesn't necessarily equal respect, if you do something that people do not accept or look down on then you won't necessarily get respected.

Meanwhile you could have a bartender that makes less money than you but gets more respect socially, etc.

I think internal validation is more important than external. Hopefully in the future I will find someone that can accept me. In mean time I am trying to improve mental health and may see a therapist to talk through mental blocks and issues surrounding isolation ,etc.

I think you need to take up more hobbies and interests, team sports are good to bond with people socially, whether you join a running club, football, touch rugby etc...don't worry about your skill level that's not that important and you can always improve.

Attraction works more than just on the surface level, saying you "don't find too attractive" can sound like you're being picky without putting yourself out there, I get it if they really are unattractive bottom end of the market place. Also your years of sleeping with highly attractive escorts may have muddled your perception on civvy women.

Being a professional gambler is not an issue but there are certain negative traits that will come to people's mind when you mention it like are you an addict? Good with money? but if you can show you are in control, stable and secure doing it don't think people will care. Also look at other pro's who are they? what are they doing in their lives? are there ones who are doing more in the business world? Can you network with any?

Money doesn't necessarily equal respect but walking into a room knowing who you are 100%, knowing that you're free from the 9-5 and can generate cash without waiting for a paycheck and not giving a fuck what people think they'll respect you.

Internal validation is more important yes but you also have to look at the day to day activities you do and thoughts that go through your head are they the right things to validate?

Definitely go talk to someone, open up your mind a bit more and see your reality from a different viewpoint.

[SonofAJohn]

I haven't watched porn for a long time, I don't watch it now. Doesn't make any sense watching other people have sex.

I think I am isolated socially as I work from home and don't socialise much outside of going to gym, I go to salsa class sometimes and yoga.

I find yoga is good but there aren't many girls in either yoga class or salsa and none that I find too attractive, isn't much time to interact with them in yoga as they get changed quickly and leave.

My mental health suffered from years of isolation, I think I used escorts for many years as a convenient way of having sex with lots of women. I don't go to bars or clubs as not my scene and don't drink.

Also I live a different life to many people, I am a professional gambler and make a good living from this and don't pay any tax. This requires lots of mental energy, when you follow a different path to everyone else in life you have less outlets socially. So I basically make a living taking risks. At the same time I have lots of freedom, more than the majority of people.

This is also why I can relate to escorts. Escorts are looked down upon in society by many people even though they make more money than a lot of people, it is just a social stigma.

Money doesn't necessarily equal respect, if you do something that people do not accept or look down on then you won't necessarily get respected.

Meanwhile you could have a bartender that makes less money than you but gets more respect socially, etc.

I think internal validation is more important than external. Hopefully in the future I will find someone that can accept me. In mean time I am trying to improve mental health and may see a therapist to talk through mental blocks and issues surrounding isolation ,etc.

If you are interested in football, then there is an app which allows you to play football anywhere in England at any time you want all week in 5 - a side games up to 11-a-sde games at good quality levels. It is organized, a fantastic way to meet new people and do some high intensity exercise at the same. It has helped me give up smoking so much cannabis.
I used to trade cryptocurrencies at stupid hours before I got myself into some trouble and I understand how isolating something like pro gambling can get. Dan Bilzerian spoke in depth about this lots of times  You just have to find that 1% of people who you can get along with and you will be sorted.   

[gurds]

Good thing about this place is we all have a common hobby let's say in that we all see escorts.

We all have different reasons for doing so. There are pros and cons to this just like there are pros and cons to everything else.

Marriage and kids is not so great either, you lose your freedom in the process and are chained down to one person.

[SonofAJohn]

Marriage and kids is not so great either, you lose your freedom in the process and are chained down to one person.

In marriage, the sex will stop and you will be back to seeing escorts anyway. However, with more guilt and risk. Which means more anxiety and a stronger dose of Tadafalil to get over the line.

[jamiekinkxxx]

Good thing about this place is we all have a common hobby let's say in that we all see escorts.

We all have different reasons for doing so. There are pros and cons to this just like there are pros and cons to everything else.

Marriage and kids is not so great either, you lose your freedom in the process and are chained down to one person.

I think you need some counselling

[JontyR]

Marriage and kids is not so great either, you lose your freedom in the process and are chained down to one person.

Marriage and kids also allows you to experience some things in life which are not replicated by anything else. But it isn't for everyone. I suppose it comes down to what is your "best life".

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Playing the stock market's, isnt that gambling by another name?...

Seems very respected!...

[gurds]

Playing the stock market's, isnt that gambling by another name?...

Seems very respected!...

Guess it depends which type of gambling. There are ways of winning in all types of speculation. Having the right tools and making valuable plays long term is how you win.

Is a zero sum game so if you are a winning player you are basically taking other peoples money when you win. I think it is a very masculine way of making money personally as it is highly competitive.

I personally think making money in this way makes you better than many other people. You have to have lots of masculine traits and be fearless. Most people are just slaves following other people's orders in the rat race. They don't have any balls to take risks and do better.

[daviemac]

Guess it depends which type of gambling. There are ways of winning in all types of speculation. Having the right tools and making valuable plays long term is how you win.

Is a zero sum game so if you are a winning player you are basically taking other peoples money when you win. I think it is a very masculine way of making money personally as it is highly competitive.

I personally think making money in this way makes you better than many other people. You have to have lots of masculine traits and be fearless. Most people are just slaves following other people's orders in the rat race. They don't have any balls to take risks and do better.

So you think you're better than other members on here, you conceited prick.

You masculine, don't make me laugh, you said earlier you haven't got the balls to leave the house.

The only thing you are is a troll.

[mills_and_bhuna]

I think it is a very masculine way of making money personally as it is highly competitive.

I personally think making money in this way makes you better than many other people. You have to have lots of masculine traits and be fearless. Most people are just slaves following other people's orders in the rat race. They don't have any balls to take risks and do better.

You sound like you think you're wasted on pursuing mere women.
These poor dumb creatures are blindly seeking a mate using thousands of years of evolution, upbringing by experienced parents, social fabric, hormones and all that nonsense while all they had to do was hang about on social media websites looking for day traders and poker players.
Absolute nonsense.
You've had several good pieces of advice on here so far.
Up to you whether you heed them.

[jamiekinkxxx]

@gurds....

...if, and I am starting to feel that is a big if, you are for real, then I think you need help, professional help.

I am not sure I actually believe a word you type

[hendrix]

Anyone watch Slow Horses? OP is reminding me of Roddy