The Politics Thread

[chrishornx]

Where we could save money in this country is not by scrapping the NHS but by scrapping private medical companies like BUPA etc as they drive the overall cost up.

not sure that it is that simple BR - Private medical in the UK takes a huge strain off the overly burdened NHS facilities with over 7 million consultations a year - shove that back into the NHS and there simply wouldn't be the capacity

[Blackpool Rock]

not sure that it is that simple BR - Private medical in the UK takes a huge strain off the overly burdened NHS facilities with over 7 million consultations a year - shove that back into the NHS and there simply wouldn't be the capacity

Take over the private hospitals etc all for nothing as they don't have shareholders so shouldn't be a problem for them.

Given up how many times i've read stories about people being treated in private hospitals then something goes wrong that they can't handle so they wheel the patient across the road to the NHS hospital to pick up the tab for what they've been paid for.

NHS patients often struggle to get their treatment due to lack of staff as they are all working for private outfits, basically if you have money then you can queue jump, must have pissed these private people off when they couldn't pay to get a covid jab earlier than the scumbags 

[RedKettle]

I depends on your definition of 'work'. it works in the sense we have roads, schools, hospitals, a civil service, rule of law and so on, which we pay for in taxes. Does it work efficiently? No, it doesn't. And that's because governments always have an endless stream of other people's money, and a a consequence, financial prudence goes out of the window.

The economy and 'money' are not abstract nonsenses. They are very real. Especially if you are poor.

We could do with some change, that's for sure. And we could start by weaning ourselves off the idea that Government has to be in our face every minute of every day, and doing everything for us.

For example, it's not the job of government to feed us. It's their job to ensure that the infrastructure that enables the chain from farmer to kitchen table to work with the least interference and disruption, and at the maximum efficiency and benefit of all concerned.

Exactly. Agree with that and it is spot on. Government should facilitate wealth creation and protect the vulnerable from exploitation.

[lostandfound]

Take over the private hospitals etc all for nothing as they don't have shareholders so shouldn't be a problem for them.

Given up how many times i've read stories about people being treated in private hospitals then something goes wrong that they can't handle so they wheel the patient across the road to the NHS hospital to pick up the tab for what they've been paid for.

NHS patients often struggle to get their treatment due to lack of staff as they are all working for private outfits, basically if you have money then you can queue jump, must have pissed these private people off when they couldn't pay to get a covid jab earlier than the scumbags 

Yes - that is why private hospitals are always built next to an NHS hospital!

Also - because it's the NHS that the private sector also leeches on for its supply of medical staff; really handy having them just across the road.

[RedKettle]

I think one thing that we call all agree on, is that brexit has been a massive success.

 No but let’s not go there, it was too corrosive on here last time. (Just my opinion before people jump on me, I know I am not a mod.)

[Blackpool Rock]

No but let’s not go there, it was too corrosive on here last time. (Just my opinion before people jump on me, I know I am not a mod.)

I'm with you but the fact is that we will never know what the actual effect either positive or negative is / was due to covid coming along and throwing all the cards in the air, Bojo must have been cumming in his pants at the timing

[King Nuts]

Take over the private hospitals etc all for nothing as they don't have shareholders so shouldn't be a problem for them.

Given up how many times i've read stories about people being treated in private hospitals then something goes wrong that they can't handle so they wheel the patient across the road to the NHS hospital to pick up the tab for what they've been paid for.

NHS patients often struggle to get their treatment due to lack of staff as they are all working for private outfits, basically if you have money then you can queue jump, must have pissed these private people off when they couldn't pay to get a covid jab earlier than the scumbags 

I've been having a course of treatment privately just recently. I did it that way because (a) my company has a health insurance scheme, and (b) I didn't want to wait for months to get something done. As out happens, the consultant I am dealing with works at the local private hospital one day a week and at the NHS one four days. He's obviously a bastard then, and contributing to a highly unfair system.

So by your thinking, the hospital and insurance company that arranges cover should be scrapped. And I should just turn up at my local NHS hospital and clog that up even more.

Great thinking.

If you follow that line of thought, why not nationalise all hairdressers? Why not set up a chain of local council-run barbers, all operating for 'free', but you'll have to book an appointment, of course. Might take six months, cos that'll be how it works. But at least it'll be 'free' and you'll have dealt with queue jumping.

And then why stop at hair? Food can be next. Fuck all this profiteering that Tesco and others make out of us. State-run supermarkets. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. (Where have I heard that before? I'll tell you where. Somewhere where that mantra didn't fucking work.)

[lostandfound]

Then by all means, carry on with the system you're clearly happy with 

I suspect it's more that it would require a real violent revolution, and most people are too busy watching Love Island.

So, you started off by describing, well, pretty much Marxism, and now - the Russian revolution.

How did that work out?

[lostandfound]

Exactly even most GPs are self employed.

The figures I quoted for NHS consultants are from employment contracts - 45,800 FTEs - so a greater number of consultant doctors actually employed in the NHS.

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That was in 2018. > 50K FTEs by 2020.

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[lamboman]

The figures I quoted for NHS consultants are from employment contracts - 45,800 FTEs - so a greater number of consultant doctors actually employed in the NHS.

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That was in 2018. > 50K FTEs by 2020.

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You need to know what FTE equates to and you clearly don't.

[lostandfound]

You need to know what FTE equates to and you clearly don't.

You're kidding? Put your mouse cursor on FTE, right click, and search and you will find out. 

Let me know when you figure it out. 

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[Blackpool Rock]

I've been having a course of treatment privately just recently. I did it that way because (a) my company has a health insurance scheme, and (b) I didn't want to wait for months to get something done. As out happens, the consultant I am dealing with works at the local private hospital one day a week and at the NHS one four days. He's obviously a bastard then, and contributing to a highly unfair system.

So by your thinking, the hospital and insurance company that arranges cover should be scrapped. And I should just turn up at my local NHS hospital and clog that up even more.

Great thinking.

If you follow that line of thought, why not nationalise all hairdressers? Why not set up a chain of local council-run barbers, all operating for 'free', but you'll have to book an appointment, of course. Might take six months, cos that'll be how it works. But at least it'll be 'free' and you'll have dealt with queue jumping.

And then why stop at hair? Food can be next. Fuck all this profiteering that Tesco and others make out of us. State-run supermarkets. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. (Where have I heard that before? I'll tell you where. Somewhere where that mantra didn't fucking work.)

That's quite some leap getting from healthcare to well basically everything, we already have a state run health system but i'm not aware of state run supermarkets etc 

I've had a few jobs where i've been entitled to a basic level of BUPA cover and always turned it down on principle that I don't agree with it and have a moral objection, my choice and i had many comments that i must be mad but unlike most of society i stuck to my principles 
I did ask if they would instead pay my gym membership as keeping fit would be prevention rather than cure but they didn't agree 

[lamboman]

You're kidding? Put your mouse cursor on FTE, right click, and search and you will find out. 

Let me know when you figure it out. 

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So you know the contract details of NHS FTEs do you 
Are you Julian Assange?

[lostandfound]

So you know the contract details of NHS FTEs do you 
Are you Julian Assange?

What a weird comment. Is that supposed to be an insult?! 

How can you argue about manpower resources when you are so uninformed you don't know what an FTE is, which is basic to an understanding of the subject?

First you argue that I don't know what I'm talking about, and now your argument is that I am somehow in the wrong because I do know what I am talking about?

Is this how right wingers carry on? Reminds me of stories of Nazi Germany! 

[lamboman]

What a weird comment. Is that supposed to be an insult?! 

How can you argue about manpower resources when you are so uninformed you don't know what an FTE is, which is basic to an understanding of the subject?

First you argue that I don't know what I'm talking about, and now your argument is that I am somehow in the wrong because I do know what I am talking about?

Is this how right wingers carry on? Reminds me of stories of Nazi Germany! 

You seem a bit simple to be honest 
I do know what FTE means    why you think I don't is a mystery of your tiny mind.
What we do know is there is no way you a privy to the contract details of every FTE in the NHS ergo you are talking bollocks 
Going to ignore you now as your last sentence really is quite bizarre,you know fuck all about me.

[lostandfound]

You seem a bit simple to be honest 
I do know what FTE means    why you think I don't is a mystery of your tiny mind.
What we do know is there is no way you a privy to the contract details of every FTE in the NHS ergo you are talking bollocks 
Going to ignore you now as your last sentence really is quite bizarre,you know fuck all about me.

Yeah right. A bit simple because I showed your ignorance.

It's not complicated - read the definition of an FTE, and how that relates to employment, and headcount. It is simple arithmetic. But apparently beyond you, as is the ability to admit when you are wrong. 

[chrishornx]

Take over the private hospitals etc all for nothing as they don't have shareholders so shouldn't be a problem for them.

Given up how many times i've read stories about people being treated in private hospitals then something goes wrong that they can't handle so they wheel the patient across the road to the NHS hospital to pick up the tab for what they've been paid for.

NHS patients often struggle to get their treatment due to lack of staff as they are all working for private outfits, basically if you have money then you can queue jump, must have pissed these private people off when they couldn't pay to get a covid jab earlier than the scumbags 

sorry still not convinced - Spire hospital near the Vic is owned by the publicly owned Spire Healthcare PLC and certainly has share holders

and if you are thinking ion BUPA` which doesn't have shareholders then would you seriously want to suck all their services back under the control of the NHS including over 300 nursing homes it is a not for profit company with all profits ploughed back into the business - these companies reduce the strain and yes you can 'pay to jump the queue' for some treatments but why not

[RedKettle]

I've had a few jobs where i've been entitled to a basic level of BUPA cover and always turned it down on principle that I don't agree with it and have a moral objection,

What moral objection? What is wrong with a group of people clubbing together to use their own money to provide themselves with healthcare? Especially as that takes pressure of the NHS.  That is all BUPA is.

[JontyR]

I don't know if it has changed in recent years but I knew of two instances personally around the millenium where folks were BUPA members for decades but found they could not renew after they had call to receive treatment. Initial treatment was not denied but they were then found that their previous "no claims" counted for nothing and they were denied further extension of cover/membership/policy or whatever it is called.

[King Nuts]

That's quite some leap getting from healthcare to well basically everything, we already have a state run health system but i'm not aware of state run supermarkets etc 

I've had a few jobs where i've been entitled to a basic level of BUPA cover and always turned it down on principle that I don't agree with it and have a moral objection, my choice and i had many comments that i must be mad but unlike most of society i stuck to my principles 
I did ask if they would instead pay my gym membership as keeping fit would be prevention rather than cure but they didn't agree 

There is a profound lack of logic at work here. You think it's OK for the government to provide healthcare (which I think 90 per cent of people believe it doesn't do as well as it ought to) and yet you don't think they should provide haircuts or food.

What about water? Gas? Phones? Electricity? Trains? Buses? Strippers? Tarts?

This 'moral objection' to the notion of people paying for their own healthcare (which of course is never free anyway as it's funded from general taxation) is what will ensure the NHS will never be reformed, will continue to suck billions out of the public purse, and will continue to deliver poor patient outcomes.

There is no logic whatsoever in expecting the government to provide healthcare for 'free' unless you also want them to feed you, cut you hair, and wipe your bottom.

[King Nuts]

I don't know if it has changed in recent years but I knew of two instances personally around the millenium where folks were BUPA members for decades but found they could not renew after they had call to receive treatment. Initial treatment was not denied but they were then found that their previous "no claims" counted for nothing and they were denied further extension of cover/membership/policy or whatever it is called.

Sounds like gossip to me.

What happens is this: you set up a subscription and for the first two years, no pre-existing illnesses are covered. Anything new is covered, though.

After two years, everything is covered. But of course if you've had a million things wrong with you and your start claiming for everything, you'll see premiums shoot up. Not that different to any other form of insurance.

[JontyR]

Sounds like gossip to me.

What happens is this: you set up a subscription and for the first two years, no pre-existing illnesses are covered. Anything new is covered, though.

After two years, everything is covered. But of course if you've had a million things wrong with you and your start claiming for everything, you'll see premiums shoot up. Not that different to any other form of insurance.

Not gossip. But I will admit there are always two sides to every story, and I don't know BUPAs.

In terms of the NHS, one must remember what a significantly different world this is to when it was set up. The massive demand for an increase in the Welfare state was a reaction with a massive increase in agency in terms of the right to vote and 2 massive european conflicts.

When you consider the differences in medical technology, the machines, the pharmaceuticals, the surgeries the fact that the NHS has been able to keep pace to the level it has is incredible. I rarely have call to use it, but I may well have need as I get older. I do think that many take it for granted and do not appreciate what they gain from it.

Couple of quick changes I would make, every time you get a prescription you should be told the cost of the medicine and its dispensing. Secondly if you are able to make a contribution to any in patient care then you should. I had a minor surgical procedure not long ago which required an overnight stay. It seemed quite odd to be fed and housed and not have to pay anything.

[Blackpool Rock]

Ironic that we get a specific politics thread then people don't post on it 

Surprised nobody has posted about Boris being the 1st PM to be fined by the police however i'm not surprised the fucker refuses to go as the bloke is like Teflon.
Did he lie or did he genuinely not know he was breaking the rules that he made 
The thing is Boris is a pathological liar so it's 2nd nature to him and I don't actually think that he knows the difference between truth and lies as the boundaries have become so blurred over many years of practice
Perhaps Boris just took the role of "party leader" a bit too literally 

While Starmer & co are calling for him to go I don't actually think they want him gone yet as there must be plenty of ammo to use in any General election
Sunak was hotly tipped as Boris's replacement but his shining star has rapidly gone dull in a few weeks following the spring budget then his wife's tax affairs and now his fine for breaking lockdown rules

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[Colston36]

No, I am not fucking mad. The NHS was a brilliant idea in 1948. it isn't a brilliant idea any more. If it were, other nations would've copied it, and none (to my knowledge) have.

Reforming it means making it accountable. That will never happen. It's a sacred cow in Britain, because most people can't get their head around the fact that they believe it to be 'free' and therefore untouchable. Most people think the NHS does us a favour by simply existing and letting us have access without having to get our wallets out.

It's a ghastly, Soviet-style institution, run for its own convenience and benefit, and the public's interest a distant second.

Given it soaks up north of 500 million quid of public money a day, we are entitled to so much better.

"No, I am not fucking mad. The NHS was a brilliant idea in 1948. it isn't a brilliant idea any more. If it were, other nations would've copied it, and none (to my knowledge) have.".

Your knowledge is startlingly limited. Almost anywhere in Western Europe and Scandinavia, even Canada there is free health service. What's more it is usually better than what the NHS provides, I discovered this when living in France 30 odd years ago.

In the US, though, where the national sport is shooting each other, you have to pay. And through the nose. Hospitals ask for your credit card before taking you in. My previously prosperous father in law was ruined as a result of getting cancer.

[lillythesavage]

Ironic that we get a specific politics thread then people don't post on it 

Surprised nobody has posted about Boris being the 1st PM to be fined by the police however i'm not surprised the fucker refuses to go as the bloke is like Teflon.
Did he lie or did he genuinely not know he was breaking the rules that he made 
The thing is Boris is a pathological liar so it's 2nd nature to him and I don't actually think that he knows the difference between truth and lies as the boundaries have become so blurred over many years of practice
Perhaps Boris just took the role of "party leader" a bit too literally 

While Starmer & co are calling for him to go I don't actually think they want him gone yet as there must be plenty of ammo to use in any General election
Sunak was hotly tipped as Boris's replacement but his shining star has rapidly gone dull in a few weeks following the spring budget then his wife's tax affairs and now his fine for breaking lockdown rules

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I think it is refreshing to have some on who fucks up like we all do, sure there are some who stuck to lockdown like glue, but a few drinks after work by people working together anyway is no big deal to me, I was working and did the same. Had more work than usual delivering cars.

Bad time for big changes Sunak is a different though, money mud sticks.

[king tarzan]

I'm a conservative supporter...high mid level right wing views..
I always admired the great Maggie Thatcher and David Cameron and like Boris Johnson too.. his comedian elements..

[catweazle]

Putin is raining bombs and missiles  on Ukraine,  but Captain  Hindsight reckons a drink with colleagues on your birthday is "rampant criminality ".

Additionally,  to my eyes, his pitch to the electorate appears to be "vote for  us, because we're  not the Conservatives".

[MLawro93]

Didn't realise this thread existed, and it has been eye opening. 

[Followyourdick]

Putin is raining bombs and missiles  on Ukraine,  but Captain  Hindsight reckons a drink with colleagues on your birthday is "rampant criminality ".

He broke the law, ignorance of the law itself is no defence, he broke it. In my opinion he knew what he was doing all along, his mo is to push it as far as he can and see what he can get away with, when he realises he can’t any longer he apologises, how many times has he apologised recently, completely fucking meaningless.  He’s sorry but he really doesn’t give a flying fuck.

[Blackpool Rock]

He broke the law, ignorance of the law itself is no defence, he broke it. In my opinion he knew what he was doing all along, his mo is to push it as far as he can and see what he can get away with, when he realises he can’t any longer he apologises, how many times has he apologised recently, completely fucking meaningless.  He’s sorry but he really doesn’t give a flying fuck.

Exactly but not only did he break the law he made the fucking law then claimed he didn't think he had 

So he's either -
Lying
Doesn't think the law applies to him
Too fucking thick to understand the law he's made

Or any combination of the above 

Then again apparently there was no cocaine and no whores (excluding Carrie) so how was Bojo supposed to know it was a party   

[Blackpool Rock]

I'm a conservative supporter...high mid level right wing views..
I always admired the great Maggie Thatcher and David Cameron and like Boris Johnson too.. his comedian elements..

I wouldn't put DC or Bojo as being on the right of the party 

[Watts.E.Dunn]

OK, BoJo far from perfect but who would you put in his job right now let alone Sunak?

Is anyone of the opinion that his missus is a tad on the tasty side and ought to provide services in the national intrest;?...

[Blackpool Rock]

OK, BoJo far from perfect but who would you put in his job right now let alone Sunak?

Is anyone of the opinion that his missus is a tad on the tasty side and ought to provide services in the national intrest;?...

A trained circus animal or a donkey perhaps, at least they are honest 



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[King Nuts]

I wouldn't put DC or Bojo as being on the right of the party 

I don't think the Tories are on the 'right' anyway. They are believers in the same things as Labour, like wanting a Big State, high levels of taxation, and they support comprehensive education at the expense of grammar schools. They're not particularly patriotic, they don't support the military to the extent they should, and they're weak on law'n'order and on immigration.

[king tarzan]

Exactly but not only did he break the law he made the fucking law then claimed he didn't think he had 

So he's either -
Lying
Doesn't think the law applies to him
Too fucking thick to understand the law he's made

Or any combination of the above 

Then again apparently there was no cocaine and no whores (excluding Carrie) so how was Bojo supposed to know it was a party   

If he was thick as custard he wouldn't be a shrewd shaker and be the leader in one of the most powerful nation and super great capital on earth..

Adiós amigo 👍👍

[Followyourdick]

If he was thick as custard he wouldn't be a shrewd shaker and be the leader in one of the most powerful nation and super great capital on earth..

Adiós amigo 👍👍

I go from thinking he’s a complete fucking buffoon to thinking he’s a smart operator and then back again.
To be honest complete fucking twat with no idea of the real world is a better description.

[Marmalade]

I don't think the Tories are on the 'right' anyway. They are believers in the same things as Labour, like wanting a Big State, high levels of taxation, and they support comprehensive education at the expense of grammar schools. They're not particularly patriotic, they don't support the military to the extent they should, and they're weak on law'n'order and on immigration.

Possibly correct, at least as facts on the ground go. The people vote for the least worst alternative.

Boris did better with the Cummings league at his back. He also seemed less sure of himself after hospitalization. But he has shown some leadership over Ukraine (whether it's the leadership people want or not is another matter of course). It's quite fair and just that he is fined IMO over lockdown incursions but you have to ask if not having a drink when he's not meant to is the most important qualification for being a prime minister.

[lostandfound]

Partygate reminds me of why I would never have wished to be a politician (apart from the likelihood of being exposed as a punter!).

And of the arguments I used to have about another profession charged with investigating financial affairs.

IMO the best you can expect of any professional is that their conduct is about that of an ordinary decent (whatever that is) individual.

Expecting them to be a paragon of virtue is unrealistic!

[DastardlyDick]

But worst of all is the NHS. If ever there was a time to reform or, IMO, scrap it, that time is now. The Govt has a big majority, we're all worn out with lockdowns and Covid, and the myth of the caring, there-when-you-need-it NHS has been blown out of the water in the minds of all but the most fanatical leftwing nutters.

I' m no "left wing nutter" but I'd rather have the NHS than a system like the US where you have to pay for medical Insurance and it was (until the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare) a basic case of pay or die. One of the more amusing things I've seen on TV was Trump supporters absolutely vilifying "Obama Care" then praising the Affordable Care Act to the rafters, almost in the same breath - morons! It's probably just as well for Trump that he didn't manage to scrap Obama Care - they'd have lynched him when Grandma Jolene got turned away at the Hospital because she didn't have sufficient Insurance.

[lostandfound]

I' m no "left wing nutter" but I'd rather have the NHS than a system like the US where you have to pay for medical Insurance and it was (until the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare) a basic case of pay or die. One of the more amusing things I've seen on TV was Trump supporters absolutely vilifying "Obama Care" then praising the Affordable Care Act to the rafters, almost in the same breath - morons! It's probably just as well for Trump that he didn't manage to scrap Obama Care - they'd have lynched him when Grandma Jolene got turned away at the Hospital because she didn't have sufficient Insurance.

Yes - just like Italian State Railways, many people seem very happy with it as a publicly funded service.

[mh]

Bad time for big changes

We're not at war, but even if we were leaders have been changed during wartime, it can even be essential. Surely our PM, an alleged 'expert' on Churchill, knows this. Every other potential leader would support and have supported the actions taken on Ukraine. The current PM isn't an outlier on this.

The current PM didn't realise what he was doing was wrong, yet before his transgression wrote a letter to a girl thanking her for postponing her birthday party. He knew very well.

Until last week it was premature to remove him until the police had made a decision, now despite him (begrudgingly) accepting he broke the law, it is "time to put it behind us". They are taking the proverbial.

It isn't about the cake, it's about the regular breaking of the mixing rules - even in a workplace. We didn't have drinks in our workplace. School staff rooms were closed to eliminate mixing. Nurses didn't neck a bottle of prosecco with colleagues after their shifts.

He lied, repeatedly and provably, to the House of Commons. Then makes up rubbish like "I was assured that..." when before it was an outright statement "no laws were broken, all guidance was followed". Anyone who defends him is a gullible idiot, he doesn't give a jot about anyone who debases themselves doing so.

[Marmalade]

Anyone else think the Finland Prime Minister looks hot?

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Anyone else think the Finland Prime Minister looks hot?
[/quote

Yes:)...]

[conrod]

To me, it is not just that he broke his own rules, lied to Parliament (for an MP it is a resigning offence), people unable to say goodbye to their loved ones but it is that Boris & his mates have completely lost their moral compass. 

I just hope that he gets a huge kicking at the poll booths in early May.

[Marmalade]

To me, it is not just that he broke his own rules, lied to Parliament (for an MP it is a resigning offence), people unable to say goodbye to their loved ones but it is that Boris & his mates have completely lost their moral compass. 

I just hope that he gets a huge kicking at the poll booths in early May.

Very hard to prove or disprove. But yes, it might be the meaningful thing to you and enough of the voting public to give him a. kicking as I expect it will. The bigger question in my opinion is whether it will be good for the country. It would be highly desirable to have a prime minister with an all-time perfect moral compass: I doubt if we have ever had one or ever will – the best we can hope for is the least worst, or the best in the circumstances.

[Marmalade]

Cummings -- if I dare mention that guy's name, is a good example. He broke a rule -- at least by most people's reckoning -- but his trip to his Durhan home or the foray to "test his ability to drive" didn't actually risk anyone else's health: if the nation as a whole had ignored lockdown they would indeed have endangered many people's health (at least by the consensus of understanding how the virus is transmitted).

Boris and Co don't have the same excuse. It involved large gatherings. However it was at a time when the virus was considered less dangerous. Not excusable, but not exactly crime of the century.

I do think there is a point where one has to look at other underlying principles of avoiding harm, doing good and so on, and whether you would want (for instance) to fire the commander of the forces in the midst of a war for doing something a bit naughty when he was off-duty. Reprimand, yes. Get rid of him, no.

[conrod]

Very hard to prove or disprove. But yes, it might be the meaningful thing to you and enough of the voting public to give him a. kicking as I expect it will. The bigger question in my opinion is whether it will be good for the country. It would be highly desirable to have a prime minister with an all-time perfect moral compass: I doubt if we have ever had one or ever will – the best we can hope for is the least worst, or the best in the circumstances.

Proof of lying in Parliament is very easy.  There is a full record of what he has said.  "There was no party".  The police have proof that there was.  The ministerial code says that you must not lie in Parliament and you must resign.  Therefore he has broken it and he has to go.

[Marmalade]

Proof of lying in Parliament is very easy.  There is a full record of what he has said.  "There was no party".  The police have proof that there was.  The ministerial code says that you must not lie in Parliament and you must resign.  Therefore he has broken it and he has to go.

Yes that's easy: what I meant was it is very hard to prove someone has lost their moral compass.

[willie loman]

OK, BoJo far from perfect but who would you put in his job right now let alone Sunak?

Is anyone of the opinion that his missus is a tad on the tasty side and ought to provide services in the national intrest;?...

i knew the game was up for sunak when he was pictured in those 400£ trainers, grown ups dress like grown ups. its astonishing that he has got this far.

[Marmalade]

As far as I can see the Ministerial Code first of all is for guidance, not a ruling that has any legal force. Secondly the word 'lying' isn't mentioned. The only mention of resignation is for "Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister". So you would have to prove it was done knowingly; secondly, you would have to argue that it applies to the Prime Minister not just other ministers; and thirdly you'd have to ask what power it has. In the case of a minister, the Prime Minister can fire him or her. In the case of the Prime Minister, it requires a vote of no confidence. Which hasn't happened. So your "should" is an opinion, not a fact. And not an opinion shared by enough ministers to carry force.