Sugar Babies
Shemales

Author Topic: How will we punt if cash becomes hard to obtain?  (Read 3396 times)

Offline mh

External Link/Members Only

I know this is a report from a review carried out on behalf of Link, a company with a significant interest in cash not becoming obsolete so it has to be read sceptically. But it is true that cash use is declining rapidly. Which magazine report that ATMs are being closed at the rate of 300 machines every month.

Are any service providers - WGs, parlours, clubs or online services - promoting any serious anonymous alternative to cash?  :unknown:

According to the press articles, the report is urging government to step in and support the continuing use of cash for those "unable to cope" with a cashless way of working. To be honest I can't see any government stepping in to support the use of cash as it is entirely in their interests to eliminate cash working.

James999

  • Guest
As you say it's not in the Governments interest to support the "cash / grey / black market" from there perspective there's nothing wrong with everything being paid via card / transfer  :music:


Offline Home Alone

Isn't Sweden supposed to be much further down the road than the UK to becoming a cashless society? Anyone know how punting works there??

Offline expeller

Isn't Sweden supposed to be much further down the road than the UK to becoming a cashless society? Anyone know how punting works there??

It is illegal there.

Offline Doc Holliday

Isn't Sweden supposed to be much further down the road than the UK to becoming a cashless society? Anyone know how punting works there??

Apparently yes ... but its illegal to buy sex in Sweden so not exactly like for like. I would assume those who choose to break the law must still use cash?

Offline Mr Rollison

What about those off the shelf credit cards.
They could set up a small business or you could just give them the card and pin.
I have never used them so don't know if they put your name on it.

As I work in retail, you can easily use someone else's card contactless.
Also remember if you need to put in your pin then the machine is on the buyers side of
counter then nobody looks at your card. Most transactions are invalid because a lot of
users don't sign the card.

Then there are silver coins, gold coins or cigarettes.

Offline JamesKW

There appear to be anonymous digital ways (when discussed previously) in my opinion there is nothing digital that is 100% anonymous,anything can be hacked.Cash is the only true anonymous transaction and it is in our interest as punters to keep it going (also for anyone else that trades in illegal activities)so to carry out as many transactions as possible with cash.

Offline Waterhouse

I don't see how they can remove cash from society completely... too many people, especially pensioners and the like, who have no digital footprint/internet access, wouldn't know an iPhone from a calculator and only have a bank card that they use for shopping and withdrawing cash - as is the case with my mum and other members of my family at that ripe old age.

Offline Third Man

I'm fairly sure cash will disappear completely at some point, but by that time my punting days, and probably me, will be long gone.

Offline mh

I don't see how they can remove cash from society completely... too many people, especially pensioners and the like, who have no digital footprint/internet access, wouldn't know an iPhone from a calculator and only have a bank card that they use for shopping and withdrawing cash - as is the case with my mum and other members of my family at that ripe old age.

It will be a combination of push and pull factors.

Banks can charge (even) more to businesses for banking their cash
To avoid charges businesses dissuade customers from spending in cash
Some businesses go completely cashless and can offer lower prices as a result
ATMs disappear making cash harder to obtain
Banks stop offering free banking to all customers and charge those who want a cash card
New online only banks with no cash facility can offer incentives to customers - e.g. £20 credited every month for a year
The number of people averse to technology diminishes
A cash equivalent card is eventually mass produced

The last of these is technologically feasible now. A close to credit card sized device with a display and with security features allowing instant, anonymous exchanges of funds that are stored on the card - both pay and receive funds from another cardholder or business. It just needs to be produced cheaply enough for mass adoption, designed from the bottom up for absolute security and with low running costs.

James999

  • Guest
I don't see how they can remove cash from society completely... too many people, especially pensioners and the like, who have no digital footprint/internet access, wouldn't know an iPhone from a calculator and only have a bank card that they use for shopping and withdrawing cash - as is the case with my mum and other members of my family at that ripe old age.

But the number of pensioners like that will obviously continue to decrease, they manage bus passes and pension payments, and as such a debit card is no great challenge.

You seem to have made a stronglink between the internet and cashless, the two don't have to be linked and a pensioner could easily run a bank account cashless with a debit card (Provided they can get to a bank / post office of course)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:58:08 pm by James999 »

James999

  • Guest
It will be a combination of push and pull factors.

Card use has increased far quicker than many (including myself) thought it would, it's quicker and easier to pay for a drink in a pub contactless and as such more seem to be doing so, in fact if in a busy Wetherspoons you can stay at your table and order drinks via their online app, this jumps the queues at the bar.

Offline hawkzville

There are similarities to when countries like eg Ireland/Spain/Italy adopted the Euro, in that plenty of people held on to their Punt/Peseta/Lira etc because otherwise they would have to explain "just how" they had such a wad of cash they wanted to exchange (anti-money laundering legislation over physical currency sourcing) when they were not declaring income sufficient to have amassed it - my understanding is that in the run-up to the change casinos and the such did fantastic business with punters looking to clean large amounts of cash into a legitimate (smaller) cheque from the casino as they could then claim it as winnings.

When overseas (Hong Kong, Singapore in particular) I've always "punted by plastic" ie a debit card - but never my bank card, I just charge up sufficiently a pre-paid card - perhaps then we'll get to a stage over here where we are met by Sergie at the W/G's door waving his card reader at us...…

I think it inevitable that cash will disappear, enabling every single financial transaction we make visible 9and accountable) to the data-hording thieves - oh joy.

Offline mh

Card use has increased far quicker than many (including myself) thought it would, it's quicker and easier to pay for a drink in a pub contactless and as such more seem to be doing so, in fact if in a busy Wetherspoons you can stay at your table and order drinks via their online app, this jumps the queues at the bar.

We're mostly of an age on here that trusts cash and has a healthy distrust of technology for it's own sake. Those much older have an absolute fear of the tech and those younger ("digital natives") have grown up with it and don't fear it. I think they should be much more wary!

But it is true that there are significant advantages to going cashless. We just need an entrepreneur to cater to those of us for whom anonymous, person-to-person, significant value cash-type payments are a must!

Offline hawkzville

We're mostly of an age on here that trusts cash and has a healthy distrust of technology for it's own sake. Those much older have an absolute fear of the tech and those younger ("digital natives") have grown up with it and don't fear it. I think they should be much more wary!

But it is true that there are significant advantages to going cashless. We just need an entrepreneur to cater to those of us for whom anonymous, person-to-person, significant value cash-type payments are a must!


In the US there is quite a lot of use of "anonymous pre-paid debit cards" ie where you buy a card over the counter rather like a gift card and go on your merry way doing whatever..... I've had a Prime IDT card for yonks as it allows me to do the same thing - but it's being closed down, so am searching for an alternative.

I'm an old codger, mistrusting of technology, but it was a W/G in Hong Kong that turned me on to the idea of invisible plastic punting as better than cash...

mikexxlong

  • Guest
as already stated the 'powers that be' are in favour of an cashless society for many reasons

for punters it's a huge fucking  risk to their anonymity
and if in a relationship there is an obvious increased risk in someone finding out or suspecting their activities

not only that it will make it far easier for pimps and whores to rip off or over charge  punters

a cashless society putting aside all the other serious implications --- it would be very bad for punters indeed :thumbsdown:

Offline Silver Birch


In the US there is quite a lot of use of "anonymous pre-paid debit cards" ie where you buy a card over the counter rather like a gift card and go on your merry way doing whatever..... I've had a Prime IDT card for yonks as it allows me to do the same thing - but it's being closed down, so am searching for an alternative.

I'm an old codger, mistrusting of technology, but it was a W/G in Hong Kong that turned me on to the idea of invisible plastic punting as better than cash...

But how do you pay for, or top up the card anonymously, if you can't pay by cash?

Offline Fuzzyduck

When overseas (Hong Kong, Singapore in particular) I've always "punted by plastic" ie a debit card - but never my bank card, I just charge up sufficiently a pre-paid card - perhaps then we'll get to a stage over here where we are met by Sergie at the W/G's door waving his card reader at us...…

So how do you charge up a pre-paid card? Probably another card, or cash. If the former, a transaction using your punting card could be traced back to your bank card. If cash, well that sort of defeats the object. That model works for people who don't have a bank card but want to buy stuff on the internet (i.e. it converts hard cash to digital cash).

What about the supply side? SPs and Sergei's prefer cash and are unlikely to want to move to something else. If something else does turn up that brands itself as a means to "stay anonymous" then the feds will crack down on it as soon as it gets any traction in order to "legitimize" its use (i.e. maintain ability to track movement of monies). If punting payments get captured in this way then the tax man will rub his hands.

Although the technology is there to offer an alternative to cash, it's unlikely to be successful in the near term since it's probably traceable back to the punter and it might not be universally accepted by the SPs. I can imagine a time in the future through when the lass agrees to take payment in cash with a 10% surcharge.

Offline hawkzville

So how do you charge up a pre-paid card? Probably another card, or cash. If the former, a transaction using your punting card could be traced back to your bank card. If cash, well that sort of defeats the object. That model works for people who don't have a bank card but want to buy stuff on the internet (i.e. it converts hard cash to digital cash).

What about the supply side? SPs and Sergei's prefer cash and are unlikely to want to move to something else. If something else does turn up that brands itself as a means to "stay anonymous" then the feds will crack down on it as soon as it gets any traction in order to "legitimize" its use (i.e. maintain ability to track movement of monies). If punting payments get captured in this way then the tax man will rub his hands.

Although the technology is there to offer an alternative to cash, it's unlikely to be successful in the near term since it's probably traceable back to the punter and it might not be universally accepted by the SPs. I can imagine a time in the future through when the lass agrees to take payment in cash with a 10% surcharge.



Everything has an audit trail when it comes to financial transactions - other than cash in hand of course - yes, you do have to load a pre-paid from a legitimate source, but at that stage it stops as the pre-paid card is "disposable" if you wish without any statements, risk of abuse if it falls into the wrong hands etc - so I agree nothing like as good as cash, but better than using a debit card/credit card where someone can point at a statement and say "who/what is Booby-Becky's massage service or whatever)"

Anyone service provider who wants to operate outside the law ie not pay tax is going to hate this, but fast forward to a cash free society and even Sergie might end up paying tax and putting in an expense claim, likely then to increase the prices charged by W/G's but potentially a safer environment (now I'm thinking about rights to a refund etc)……

Without wishing to speculate I agree that this will all happen, but that during the transition "discount for cash" will have a place.

Offline ShadowProclamation

If cash is deleted, I'm sure card readers will become very easy to obtain by SPs, for their business.

Offline wylie anchor

Going cashless is all well & good until there is a systems crash, happened not long ago, supermarkets in meltdown almost. I try to use cash more than card.  :hi:

Offline wild thing

I don't mind cashless transactions in other walks of life but for punting, the traceability is my prime concern. I'd really rather not have this transaction recorded digitally anywhere, for many reasons.

Crypto currencies could be a way forward, eg Bitcoin or many others are available.
"Crypto" means "hidden" after all.
Any crypto experts care to comment on the anonymity (or otherwise) of crypto transactions?

Offline pingug

same as all the other illegal transactions, Bitcoin

Offline Happylad

I imagine that some fair-sized off-shoot of the finance industry (small insurance company, bookmaker, moneylender etc.) would invent `Vouchers` of various denominations and sold in booklets, and would enlist a nation-wide army of small shopkeepers and other small local establishments to act as Agents in selling at a `face value plus commission` price, and redeeming already issued ones at a `cost less commission` price, and these vouchers would then be traded simply as cash. Not much more, really, than Postal Orders or Book Tokens - neither of which were actually traceable back to the original purchaser.

mikexxlong

  • Guest
Restricting and discouraging the use of cash, has always been a goal of the 'rulers' as a means to reduce individuals’ independence
and removes anonymity of using cash in private transactions

So who gains from a cashless society

The banks,
 of course, will be charging as many fees as they can think of. More importantly, your cash card leaves a wide data trail detailing your buying preferences,
 used by merchants and advertisers to entice you into more buying. How convenient.
These thoughtful companies even offer reward points every time you use the card.
Cash offers the ultimate in privacy. Your cash card might as well be a walking billboard.

The government,
of course, is extremely interested in your spending habits. The taxing authorities use an electronic money trail to monitor your spending
 and ensure against tax evasion and crime prevention/unlawful acts.
In addition, cards save the government the cost and trouble of printing and storing additional currency.

large corporations,
Your electronic purchase trail is nirvana to corporations. Knowing your spending habits allows them to customize their ads
 to an ever-larger consumer base. They know what you need before you do and are ready to entice you with specials, sales and “act now” deals.

And not only the privacy concerns , but what also should be of major concern is fraud

cashless / electronic accounts represent a significant, and ever expanding in scope and size threat of cyber attacks and cyber crime.

In 2015 the UK contributed 43% of the total card losses seen across Europe. Losses through card fraud totalled £88.5 million,
attributed to the ‘growth in online spend and the digital revolution’ .
Credit card fraud and attacks on food and beverage transactions climbed by 116% (yoy) in the last quarter, according to the Global Fraud Attack Index.

This can happen in a number of ways: skimming, when your card is physically scanned by the thief this could be sergi ,winston or marge the whore ;
 if your card is contactless enabled then a close-range scanning device will do the trick !;
 and, do you think you’re so techie because you pay on your mobile? Well, look out for the near-field communication (NFC) devices that are an easy target to hack by criminals.

Offline wristjob

I think drugs more than sex will be the driver for anonymous financial transactions, but there's enough that has to be paid for in cash that there will always be a need for something like that. If that means bullion coins or gift vouchers then a way will be found.Lets be fair, oldest profession - predates banking.

Offline DastardlyDick

As far as paying WGs is concerned, you, the punter would load up one of the many loadable cards available and the WG would have a card reader. Card readers are now so cheap even beggars on the underground have them!

Offline rathbone

Interesting thread - although the uptake of contactless payments has been rapid, I think there's a long way to go before paper money goes completely out of circulation.  For example, they've been predicting the death of the chequebook for the last 20 years and while supermarkets and petrol stations don't accept cheques now, plenty businesses still do and of course banks still cash them.

Offline Malvolio

As far as paying WGs is concerned, you, the punter would load up one of the many loadable cards available and the WG would have a card reader. Card readers are now so cheap even beggars on the underground have them!

It's not the paying that's a problem, it's doing it without there being a trail back to my bank account.  Equally I wouldn't think the WG would want to take electronic payments as she'd then have to explain to the taxman what all these £100 transfers are.

Offline mh

they've been predicting the death of the chequebook for the last 20 years and while supermarkets and petrol stations don't accept cheques now, plenty businesses still do and of course banks still cash them.

But many (most? all?) new bank accounts do not issue chequebooks at all. And if they are not issued, they will die.

I have a chequebook but have not written a cheque in 5+ years. My kids (adults themselves) know what a chequebook is but have never had one. They know what it is because it is the thing grandparents use which makes them have to go to the bank to get their birthday present money a week later. If banks start charging their personal customers for banking of received cheques they will disappear overnight.

Offline DastardlyDick

It's not the paying that's a problem, it's doing it without there being a trail back to my bank account.  Equally I wouldn't think the WG would want to take electronic payments as she'd then have to explain to the taxman what all these £100 transfers are.
A good point, well made.

Offline shagmore

Bank transfer, I do it with my regulars, no issue, very easy

mikexxlong

  • Guest
Bank transfer, I do it with my regulars, no issue, very easy


 :rolleyes: i think your missing the point  :dash:

Regardless of what anyone will tell you, there is NO fool proof untraceable payment method ( including fucking bitcoin etc).
 Anything electronic can be traced, given enough resources and time

. There are ways to minimize traceability, but nothing completely eliminates the ability of experts  from tracing it.
to keep transactions private you need to use cash ,precious metals or other items/goods of value and common fucking sense!

Offline Happylad

If we ever do reach the point where cash ceases to exist or is no longer legal tender, then I suspect that for services such as those provided by prossies we shall  revert to good old fashioned barter and exchange, as it existed a thousand years ago.

Every prossie will simply show a list of the various goods and chattels that she most desires, and what they are worth to her in sexual services, and the customer will simply go out and buy whichever one will pay for his requirements, whether it be in the form of clothing, food, furniture etc - all complete with the receipt so that any surplus to requirements can be promptly returned by the prossie to the shop and a refund obtained.

Indeed, I would not be surprised if, once the benefits of the system from the income tax-saving point of view are realised, the system did not become widely adopted for the provision of all manner of other services and goods.

Just think of it - never again having to pay VAT and Income Tax.

Offline stampjones

I don't mind cashless transactions in other walks of life but for punting, the traceability is my prime concern. I'd really rather not have this transaction recorded digitally anywhere, for many reasons.

Crypto currencies could be a way forward, eg Bitcoin or many others are available.
"Crypto" means "hidden" after all.
Any crypto experts care to comment on the anonymity (or otherwise) of crypto transactions?
Its not so much cashless that is the worry but the so called crypto currencies. They work basically by having a chain of transactions - ie a permenant record. And where there’s a record there’s always a risk. Also the “crypto” bit means it is irrefutably tied to you. Its almost innevitable imo that all currencies will work this way within not too long

Offline Bitofluff


Then there are silver coins, gold coins or cigarettes.

Cigarettes sounds more like prison.  :scare:

Flunt

  • Guest
The question is whether you want to be anonymous to the pro$$ie or Big Brother. If it's the former then escrow accounts having been knocking around for a few years. Punter sends admin £100 and when the punt is completed the funds are released to the pro$$ie. I can see a great many long term benefits to that with secured and certain bookings from both sides of the divide.

That doesn't answer the Big Brother question though.  :unknown:

Offline Waterhouse

Bank transfer, I do it with my regulars, no issue, very easy

I've always given payment with cash, but would be happy to do a bank transfer for my regular, only her though since the trust is already there and well established.

Offline Sebco

If cash ceased there would be a lot of builders, electricians, plumbers etc in trouble. I was thinking these WG’s could set up small companies or sole traders in different fields like florists, supplement suppliers etc then filter the payments that way. Plus the punters would be covered as regards to leaving a online footprint.

Flunt

  • Guest
If cash ceased there would be a lot of builders, electricians, plumbers etc in trouble. I was thinking these WG’s could set up small companies or sole traders in different fields like florists, supplement suppliers etc then filter the payments that way. Plus the punters would be covered as regards to leaving a online footprint.

Money laundering  :thumbsup:

They could go the way of the old Sunday trading laws. "By a banana for £xxx and you can shag me for an hour..."


mikexxlong

  • Guest
I've always given payment with cash, but would be happy to do a bank transfer for my regular, only her though since the trust is already there and well established.

if the punter is not in a relationship and doesn't give a fuck about 'big brother' knowing every facet of their life
or indeed if an bank employee etc looks into said punters account for say credit reasons and sees these transactions etc
 then i guess all is good for that individual :unknown:

otherwise there is serious concerns for all other punters!

mikexxlong

  • Guest
slightly of topic so apologies


but anyone notice the decline in cash parking meters and the increase in  a pay by phone/ card, Pay-by-plate parking etc

some might consider this  less of a concern ,yet it still leaves a trace that could get you rumbled !

Flunt

  • Guest
slightly of topic so apologies


but anyone notice the decline in cash parking meters and the increase in  a pay by phone/ card, Pay-by-plate parking etc

some might consider this  less of a concern ,yet it still leaves a trace that could get you rumbled !

External Link/Members Only

Offline Waterhouse

if the punter is not in a relationship and doesn't give a fuck about 'big brother' knowing every facet of their life
or indeed if an bank employee etc looks into said punters account for say credit reasons and sees these transactions etc
 then i guess all is good for that individual :unknown:

otherwise there is serious concerns for all other punters!
My bank account is my bank account, no one else has access or can see what goes in or out, and besides that paying for sex is not illegal so 'big bruv' shouldn't give a hoot about it let alone the rest of my otherwise insignificant life. 

And if a bank employee were to check my transaction details either with or without my permission, what are they going to see... payee name, sort code and account number with a reference which in my case is not likely to say "Sex money to my favourite prossie".  Probably more along the lines of "firstname and surname initial reflexology appointment" or something similar.

Obviously though I'd never do that outside of a 100% trusted regular.


mikexxlong

  • Guest
My bank account is my bank account, no one else has access or can see what goes in or out, and besides that paying for sex is not illegal so 'big bruv' shouldn't give a hoot about it let alone the rest of my otherwise insignificant life. 

And if a bank employee were to check my transaction details either with or without my permission, what are they going to see... payee name, sort code and account number with a reference which in my case is not likely to say "Sex money to my favourite prossie".  Probably more along the lines of "firstname and surname initial reflexology appointment" or something similar.

Obviously though I'd never do that outside of a 100% trusted regular.


that's all well and good and if it causes no concern or future issues for you or other punters who do the same------ all's fine no problem :) :thumbsup:

its not that paying for sex is illegal no one implied that----- its the stigma that's attached and the relationship destroying consequences
of paying for sex that's of concern for a lot of punters

also there's other potential issues one of which involves employment

although regarding transaction details , for prolific punters who visit numerous  and varied pro$$ie's
regardless if its as listed as variations on manual therapy or Claire the cock sucker etc,   it will raise the eyebrows of  bank staff and might be a bit embarrassing for the punter
as they scroll though his punting history :(

Offline GanjaFarmer

I am sure crypto currencies hold the answer to this problem, there are a few currencies around now that obfuscate the transaction history and remain anonymous, eg, XMR, ZEC, XZC along with the recently launched coins using the mimblewimble protocol and many other promising innovations.

A sure fire way would be to mine your own crypto currency, doing it this way eliminates the need to exchange fiat currencies to crypto and hence no trial back to you. 

Offline webpunter

What hasn't been mentioned is that with the declining use of cash, then accessing it becomes more noticeable
For UKP'ers with OHs gradually it will become harder to 'source' it without this becoming more apparent

You can just imagine some suspicious battle axe mumsnetter OH saying like "darling lets go cashless"
Some bright spark will work out ways to provide solutions
These will require more effort by punters

mikexxlong

  • Guest
What hasn't been mentioned is that with the declining use of cash, then accessing it becomes more noticeable
For UKP'ers with OHs gradually it will become harder to 'source' it without this becoming more apparent

You can just imagine some suspicious battle axe mumsnetter OH saying like "darling lets go cashless"
Some bright spark will work out ways to provide solutions
These will require more effort by punters

fucking hell would be the kind of things a punter doesn't want to hear
 along with things like,' your test come back positive' or 'I'm afraid your impotent' :sarcastic:

in a situation like that
a ridiculous amount of pre planning and research would be involved
as one slip up and some very fucking awkward questions could be asked which could have a very costly ending :scare:

Offline webpunter

+1

& a very costly ending indeed

Much prefer happy endings

fucking hell would be the kind of things a punter doesn't want to hear
 along with things like,' your test come back positive' or 'I'm afraid your impotent' :sarcastic:

in a situation like that
a ridiculous amount of pre planning and research would be involved
as one slip up and some very fucking awkward questions could be asked which could have a very costly ending :scare: