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Author Topic: Dodgy Deposit Dodging  (Read 3093 times)

Offline contentguy

Thankyou will do x il keep my good idea to myself, seems it isnt wanted to be heard, il shut up x

Do you realise that this isn't solving your dusty phone problem?
It's been said before, if you've got something to say, say it.
We've responded to your troll thread, the best deposit is the one paid on arrival!

It's been said before that you're clearly as mad as a box of frogs. 

If you appeared in my AW searches, you'd now be on my blacklist as your prossie logic levels are way too high for me.   :wackogirl:

Online daviemac

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Thankyou will do x il keep my good idea to myself, seems it isnt wanted to be heard, il shut up x
OK then I'll bite, direct question to you, there's an escort in the NE who wants a deposit paid prior to the booking taking place how can I guarantee if I pay the deposit via her stipulated method she will fulfill the booking and not go radio silent.   :unknown:

Offline SynDee

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sorry i didnt notice, i will explain in detail.
The solution is reli quite simple, thanks to modern day technology. sp gets the call, gets the outcall address.
P then sends live location, if live location matches the address then its a goer, once SP is on the road then SP sends live location so both parties can see where each other is thus noones time is being wasted. obviously noone would pay a deposit on an incall anyway. any feedback would be ace however it works and both parties are happy x
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Offline SynDee

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Do you realise that this isn't solving your dusty phone problem?
It's been said before, if you've got something to say, say it.
We've responded to your troll thread, the best deposit is the one paid on arrival!

It's been said before that you're clearly as mad as a box of frogs. 

If you appeared in my AW searches, you'd now be on my blacklist as your prossie logic levels are way too high for me.   :wackogirl:

ouch  :wackogirl:
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Offline SynDee

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Do you realise that this isn't solving your dusty phone problem?
It's been said before, if you've got something to say, say it.
We've responded to your troll thread, the best deposit is the one paid on arrival!

It's been said before that you're clearly as mad as a box of frogs. 

If you appeared in my AW searches, you'd now be on my blacklist as your prossie logic levels are way too high for me.   :wackogirl:
Whats a troll thread please?
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Offline SynDee

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Do you realise that this isn't solving your dusty phone problem?
It's been said before, if you've got something to say, say it.
We've responded to your troll thread, the best deposit is the one paid on arrival!

It's been said before that you're clearly as mad as a box of frogs. 

If you appeared in my AW searches, you'd now be on my blacklist as your prossie logic levels are way too high for me.   :wackogirl:

It's been said before that you're clearly as mad as a box of frogs.
If you appeared in my AW searches, you'd now be on my blacklist as your prossie logic levels are way too high for me.

actually thanku xx dont forget to celebrate june the 2nd x
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Online daviemac

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sorry i didnt notice, i will explain in detail.
The solution is reli quite simple, thanks to modern day technology. sp gets the call, gets the outcall address.
P then sends live location, if live location matches the address then its a goer, once SP is on the road then SP sends live location so both parties can see where each other is thus noones time is being wasted. obviously noone would pay a deposit on an incall anyway. any feedback would be ace however it works and both parties are happy x
That's full of flaws, some SP's want the deposit paid for incalls and for outcalls paid before they leave. That's not even thinking about how many punters have very basic punting phones so have no access to modern technology.

I think we're back to the never pay a deposit as there's no foolproof way to do it.

Offline SynDee

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lol how would they get to the destination without some form of gps, everyone uses a phone, works fine x however sensible input is welcome. if it cant be done then its a 50/50 risk isnt it.
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Offline SynDee

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That's full of flaws, some SP's want the deposit paid for incalls and for outcalls paid before they leave. That's not even thinking about how many punters have very basic punting phones so have no access to modern technology.

I think we're back to the never pay a deposit as there's no foolproof way to do it.
this way is to put a stop to deposits.
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Offline SynDee

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this way is to put a stop to deposits.
in the first place the deposit is to make sure u turn up. if not then its clearly a scam in my eyes if the other person cant meet 5050 in a way that proves time isnt being wasted xx
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Offline SynDee

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as i was saying it needs moderating, a P aint guna do owt about it if they get scammed, therefore the scammers are still guna keep getting away with it. summats needs to be done x
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Offline contentguy

Perhaps you could post again when you've finished posting random thoughts.

You've even quoted yourself and responded.  :dash:

Online MissWolf

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lol how would they get to the destination without some form of gps, everyone uses a phone, works fine x however sensible input is welcome. if it cant be done then its a 50/50 risk isnt it.

They get there using a sat nav or smart phone with Google maps on it

HOWEVER that phone is linked to their personal life etc IT IS NOT the same as the phone they use as a burner phone for organising bookings, that will be a basic phone.

If they share their live location via their personal phone they will get more than scammed out of a 50 quid deposit ffs as the SP will be able to trace them.

Honestly you are not doing the WG population any favours here  :dash:
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 04:47:43 pm by MissWolf »

Offline tp69

as i was saying it needs moderating, a P aint guna do owt about it if they get scammed, therefore the scammers are still guna keep getting away with it. summats needs to be done x

I think to solve the time wasting problem from the SP's perspective, you should work on a method of verifying good punters who won't waste your time. This would be easily achievable via AW who could modify their system to allow a more open feedback system rather than limiting it to bookings placed via the website. If enough SP's wanted it, I'm sure AW could look into it. If you knew the booking was from a 'reputable' punter, then you'd have less of a problem.

As for deposits, awful, no solution will make them viable because any dispute would risk anonymity and there could never be an arbiter. The only time I'd ever pay one would perhaps be to an SP I see regularly, in which case the deposit wouldn't be required.

Offline KatieEdinburgh

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Also doesn’t factor in if the punter isn’t actually at the address that they want to book you to visit, I think outcalls to hotels are the main request in my professional life so far and if they’re booking in advance they’re usually not going to be there yet, right?  :unknown:

Because god forbid clients …err… move around ???

Offline shed

Actually that's not what's what's asked is it, you have been asked on several occasions to share your amazing and safe solution  :unknown:


That's because there isn't an amazing and safe solution. None that any punter would be interested in anyway. She has a 'screw loose' :hi: in my opinion

Offline SynDee

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That was only half the plan.....il keep rest to myself. Thanks for the input.
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Offline lamboman

Wow what a great idea,Dragons Den beckons.
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Offline contentguy

That was only half the plan.....il keep rest to myself. Thanks for the input.

20 posts on this thread about your BRILLIANT idea, which turned out to be total bollocks.

But that wasn’t the real BRILLIANT idea, it was only half a idea.

You’re a space cadet, May the 4th be with you  :wacko:

Offline lillythesavage

Wow what a great idea,Dragons Den beckons.

I have a foolproof plan  :D.

You pay the FULL agreed amount in an Escrow account.

If you get B&S, fake pics, kept waiting, a lousy service etc, you can claim back as much as you think you should, less the fees of course, say 5%. Punters choice only  :D

Offline SynDee

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Offline shed


Offline pbrown355

I've got a brilliant plan. I'm going to keep it to myself. Oh, no I'm not. I'm going to tell you all.
What do you mean it's bollocks? Oh, in that case it's only half the plan. What, you want me to tell you the other half?

No we don't really.

Offline SynDee

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I've got a brilliant plan. I'm going to keep it to myself. Oh, no I'm not. I'm going to tell you all.
What do you mean it's bollocks? Oh, in that case it's only half the plan. What, you want me to tell you the other half?

No we don't really.
sound
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Offline Thepacifist

I nearly paid a deposit once coz I wanted to see a PAWG but I never did in the end. I don’t even like online banking. I don’t have a cash app. Don’t get me started on these pay pig findoms who demand a ‘tribute’  :vomit:

Offline char45

I think the idea has some merit, it is possible to develop an escrow app where the punter pays in the deposit and that is released when both parties agree and has GPS timing and co-ordinates are recorded to ensure both parties are more or less in the same place. There would be no need to have the real names or details of anyone involved. Those who didn't want to send money electronically could use Cash2App, obviously it would require a smart phone but I suspect for all the talk of burner phones most of us have an android punting phone capable of running apps.

Such an app might have wider reach for other face to face services although probably not much as real world reputation and recommendations are key for plumbers, etc.

There are problems though in that you need a neutral arbitrator to decide who is to be believed in what I think would be a commonly disputed scenario where punter and girl are in the same place according to each GPS but punter says he rang the bell and there was no answer and escort says no one rang the bell. Did he get cold feel or was she deposit scamming? Another common scenario: one party is on time the other is running late, you could invent rules around that, say booking has to be done within 15 minutes of the time booked, but whoever loses out is going to feel pissed off and possibly not use the app again.

There's the question of trusting the arbitrator, ideally you would have a trusted banking name behind it but that isn't going to happen. Gumtree/Ebay might see some value in this but I doubt it would be worth the hassle and risk. AW are really the only people who could do it but their tech development is very slow. If I set it up tomorrow would you trust me, I suspect not. You could get round this but every way of doing it adds cost.

Then there's the question of why is the deposit only payable by the punter and not by both parties? If the punter books a hotel for outcall and the girl doesn't show up he's lost out more than the escort who has one punter as a no show but others arrive. Would escorts pay a deposit? I suspect not, which gets us back to the much repeated point that punters shouldn't either so we are back to the start of this much gone over discussion.

Financially I don't think there would be the volume to make this work even if it was used more widely, according to this interesting article External Link/Members Only

The escrow provider takes 5-10% of the transaction, on a deposit of £50 that would need a hell of alot of deposits to cover costs which would have to include human arbitration as well as app development, maintenance and security costs.

I don't think it will work but I would love to see someone try.

Offline KatieEdinburgh

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I think the idea has some merit, it is possible to develop an escrow app where the punter pays in the deposit and that is released when both parties agree and has GPS timing and co-ordinates are recorded to ensure both parties are more or less in the same place. There would be no need to have the real names or details of anyone involved.

Personally as a provider I wouldn’t want an app that is specifically for sex work related deposits tracking my live location, if it got hacked or other reasons your location being known to some could prove to be a target for robbery even more than we already are ?

Don’t really love the idea of the app you’re suggesting :unknown:


I don’t take deposits but I think there may *sometimes* be some scenarios where actually asking for one is reasonable: like international travel… no way am I flying to meet someone without some upfront payment. Maybe also booking a dungeon in advance for a client ???

I get why some WGs ask for it but they’re either, so popular that putting a % of clients off still brings them enough business, are indeed scammers, or they have a long standing reputation that people trust them. Or at least trust them “enough” to send £20 in the hopes their booking is honoured.


Btw all this talk about bank transfers etc. that you don’t stay anonymous with, I don’t agree with deposits but just as a suggestion there is at least two anonymous options I know of : Cashapp set up with a fake name, or by sending gift cards

Offline JontyR

@char45 I think that the issues are relating to the fact you wouldn't want there to be any extra charges.
If extra charges weren't an issue then you could repurpose any self sale platform such as shpock or vinted. Simply agree to purchase a token item with customised delivery. Money goes into a wallett. When "collection" of item occcurs punter gives the ok and funds are released then and there into the SPs wallett. If the order is cancelled the funds are returned.

Anonymity is provided by the use of user rather than actual names. Customised delivery means that actual names and addresses aren't routinely exchanged. Bank account and credit card details are held by the platform and not by the other party. Also the name on any statements is more easily explained away.
 
The issue here is that the platform takes a fee from one party or another. But if the SPs are genuinely serious about the reasons for charing deposits is because of the impact of timewasters they could see this as an "insurance premium"

All that being said, I am against the payment of deposits. However I am in favour of not seeing SPs leave the game because the returns are not worth it because of fantasists and time wasters.

Offline Tender.french.kiss

I've got a brilliant plan. I'm going to keep it to myself. Oh, no I'm not. I'm going to tell you all.
What do you mean it's bollocks? Oh, in that case it's only half the plan. What, you want me to tell you the other half?

No we don't really.
+1

That was only half the plan.....il keep rest to myself. Thanks for the input.
Yes, best to keep it to yourself, we've already had enough of your delirium.
Even better, get banned so we don't have to regularly put up with your nonsense

Offline char45

I think it would be a lot more effort to hack a properly designed app than just ask for your address. I agree with everything else you say about deposits.

Personally as a provider I wouldn’t want an app that is specifically for sex work related deposits tracking my live location, if it got hacked or other reasons your location being known to some could prove to be a target for robbery even more than we already are ?

Don’t really love the idea of the app you’re suggesting :unknown:


I don’t take deposits but I think there may *sometimes* be some scenarios where actually asking for one is reasonable: like international travel… no way am I flying to meet someone without some upfront payment. Maybe also booking a dungeon in advance for a client ???

I get why some WGs ask for it but they’re either, so popular that putting a % of clients off still brings them enough business, are indeed scammers, or they have a long standing reputation that people trust them. Or at least trust them “enough” to send £20 in the hopes their booking is honoured.


Btw all this talk about bank transfers etc. that you don’t stay anonymous with, I don’t agree with deposits but just as a suggestion there is at least two anonymous options I know of : Cashapp set up with a fake name, or by sending gift cards

Offline char45

The problem with the Shpock approach is that it covers the sale and delivery of goods so it has the seller produce evidence the goods are as described and were sent to the buyer (pictures of the items and proof of despatch) it doesn't cover the scenarios I outlined around services. There is still the possibility of abuse especially around goods not being as described but it is easier for someone to decide between the different claims.

I don't think the escrow cost is an issue here except in that it makes the whole thing unprofitable.

@char45 I think that the issues are relating to the fact you wouldn't want there to be any extra charges.
If extra charges weren't an issue then you could repurpose any self sale platform such as shpock or vinted. Simply agree to purchase a token item with customised delivery. Money goes into a wallett. When "collection" of item occcurs punter gives the ok and funds are released then and there into the SPs wallett. If the order is cancelled the funds are returned.

Anonymity is provided by the use of user rather than actual names. Customised delivery means that actual names and addresses aren't routinely exchanged. Bank account and credit card details are held by the platform and not by the other party. Also the name on any statements is more easily explained away.
 
The issue here is that the platform takes a fee from one party or another. But if the SPs are genuinely serious about the reasons for charing deposits is because of the impact of timewasters they could see this as an "insurance premium"

All that being said, I am against the payment of deposits. However I am in favour of not seeing SPs leave the game because the returns are not worth it because of fantasists and time wasters.

Offline JontyR

The problem with the Shpock approach is that it covers the sale and delivery of goods so it has the seller produce evidence the goods are as described and were sent to the buyer (pictures of the items and proof of despatch) it doesn't cover the scenarios I outlined around services. There is still the possibility of abuse especially around goods not being as described but it is easier for someone to decide between the different claims.

I don't think the escrow cost is an issue here except in that it makes the whole thing unprofitable.
Which is why I detailed that you would have to select customised delivery (which would allow for collection). Here the goods as described is agreed and clicked when you arrive.

You wouldn't have to deal with the whole GPS thing, after all, as has been detailed many punters go out of their way to avoid any extra digital, location  or banking footprint. This also negates the need for any arbitor.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 01:20:20 pm by JontyR »

Offline char45

How would you deal with this:

punter says he rang the bell and there was no answer and escort says no one rang the bell. Did he get cold feel or was she deposit scamming? Another common scenario: one party is on time the other is running late

The system you are talking about works well if both agree but obviously the point of all this is when they don't agree

Which is why I detailed that you would have to select customised delivery (which would allow for collection). Here the goods as described is agreed and clicked when you arrive.

You wouldn't have to deal with the whole GPS thing, after all, as has been detailed many punters go out of their way to avoid any extra digital, location  or banking footprint. This also negates the need for any arbitor.

Offline JontyR

How would you deal with this:

punter says he rang the bell and there was no answer and escort says no one rang the bell. Did he get cold feel or was she deposit scamming?

In this situation he cancels the order and receives his deposit back.

Quote
Another common scenario: one party is on time the other is running late
In this situation either party has the ability to cancel the purchase if either side are now unable to fulfil the booking.

Yes, in these situations the protection from risk favours the punter more than the SP, but there is a lot more commitment from the punter to actually sorting out a payment for a deposit than just making a phone call from a burner phone.

It would also hopefully reduce the risks of being a punter that has been double booked in just to help mitigate the SPs risk of non-attendance.

Offline char45

If the punter can just cancel and get his money back the SP is no better off than if the system didn't exist in the first place.

There isn't "alot more commitment" apart from registering an account and making a payment - it takes minutes to do that.

In this situation he cancels the order and receives his deposit back.
In this situation either party has the ability to cancel the purchase if either side are now unable to fulfil the booking.

Yes, in these situations the protection from risk favours the punter more than the SP, but there is a lot more commitment from the punter to actually sorting out a payment for a deposit than just making a phone call from a burner phone.

It would also hopefully reduce the risks of being a punter that has been double booked in just to help mitigate the SPs risk of non-attendance.

Offline JontyR

If the punter can just cancel and get his money back the SP is no better off than if the system didn't exist in the first place.

There isn't "alot more commitment" apart from registering an account and making a payment - it takes minutes to do that.
But the payment of deposits or downpayments in any other marketplace (holidays/hospitality venues) doesn't take much commitment but is effective or else it wouldn't happen at all.

I'm not saying its perfect. I think that the surcharge to one party or the other is a more significant hurdle and one that I personally wouldn't really be willing to jump over. But if there are folks out there willing to accept that then it is a possibility - or with some amends a basis for some tech bod to adapt. 

Offline char45

Disputes are minimal in those situations. E.g. hospitality, I book a ticket for a gig, I get that ticket, I either use that ticket or I don't. There is a chain of documented events, did I book, did I get the ticket, did I use it, was I rejected. It's very different to what we are talking about. It's not about commitment it's about documenting what has happened which is completely different between punting and other transactions.

But the payment of deposits or downpayments in any other marketplace (holidays/hospitality venues) doesn't take much commitment but is effective or else it wouldn't happen at all.

I'm not saying its perfect. I think that the surcharge to one party or the other is a more significant hurdle and one that I personally wouldn't really be willing to jump over. But if there are folks out there willing to accept that then it is a possibility - or with some amends a basis for some tech bod to adapt.

Offline JontyR

I think we are looking at different things here...are you looking at paying for the whole booking via your app?

Buying a ticket is a purchase not leaving a deposit. I was thinking more of where you reserve a venue for a wedding or a party by leaving a deposit and you pay the balance at an agreed future date or on arrival. The deposit, which is often refundable should cancellation come in good time, allows the venue to not sell that evening to someone else. The deposit is often non refundable when items have to be purchased and outlay is made - especially if they are perishable.

Offline SynDee

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Thanku for input. I just wanted to address the situation and show empathy about it too. Scammers shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. It causes damage. Mentally and financially  x  :thumbsup:
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Offline SynDee

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They get there using a sat nav or smart phone with Google maps on it

HOWEVER that phone is linked to their personal life etc IT IS NOT the same as the phone they use as a burner phone for organising bookings, that will be a basic phone.

If they share their live location via their personal phone they will get more than scammed out of a 50 quid deposit ffs as the SP will be able to trace them.

Honestly you are not doing the WG population any favours here  :dash:

The system I use allows me to have trust and it works for me. I just wanted to get some input and say the scammers need regulating. That's all.  :wackogirl:
P.s Krazies fuck better
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Offline s0whatsnew?

The system I use allows me to have trust and it works for me. I just wanted to get some input and say the scammers need regulating. That's all.  :wackogirl:
P.s Krazies fuck better

I'm attracted to krazies.  Trouble is, they're not attracted to me.  https://www.ukpunting.com/Smileys/kolobok/unknown.gif

Offline SynDee

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Sending u a hug, there's no icon for it x love yourself x
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Offline spiralnotebook

The alternatives mentioned are to much dicking about, keep things simple, don’t pay deposits.