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Author Topic: Herpes  (Read 6211 times)

holland

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I know very effective natural remedies:

It is to rinse mouth with a solution of white vinegar, salt, water.
Another is: mouthwash of water, lemon and salt.
And also: rinse baking soda and water.
These are also very effective to wash the intimate areas in case of external genital infections.

I hope you get well.
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

TailSeeker

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Can you explain the discrepancy? "Sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS), an anionic surfactant with protein denaturing potency, is a potent inhibitor of the infectivity of several enveloped (Herpes simplex viruses, HIV-1, Semliki Forest virus) and nonenveloped (papillomaviruses, reovirus, rotavirus and poliovirus) viruses...  results suggest that SLS and LS, alone or combined, could represent potent candidates as microbicides in topical vaginal formulations to prevent the transmission of herpes and possibly other pathogens that cause sexually transmitted diseases, including human immunodeficiency virus type 1."

Either way, if it does no harm and helps in any way, good. If not, no worse off.

Regarding exfoliating, I'd be cautious as it removes some of the protective barrier and could create small abrasions that would increase risk of infection. Or at least limit like shaving to no sooner than two days before.

It's not exactly the same, well the main chemical is the same. But an SDS solution is SDS with MQH20 or ddH20 (extra filtered and purified water). An SLS solution is SDS mixed with other alkyl sulfate chain lengths then diluted with MQH20 or ddH20.

As such SLS has less effect than SDS and is very infective post exposure. Bathing the virus in them before contact, pretty much the same, but that's not we're talking about.

It's a subtle difference that's not so obvious straight away, because it is the same name for the same compound, but when you're talking chemical reagents (which are then uses in various products), it refers to two different refinement levels, and thus concentration, purity, and effectiveness.

Exfoliation certainly shouldn't be done too often, once a week at most, but is useful for preventing ingrown hairs when you're shaving, and build up of dry skin which can encourage cracks and breakage in the skin. And pair with a good moisturiser.

holland

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It's not exactly the same, well the main chemical is the same. But an SDS solution is SDS with MQH20 or ddH20 (extra filtered and purified water). An SLS solution is SDS mixed with other alkyl sulfate chain lengths then diluted with MQH20 or ddH20.

As such SLS has less effect than SDS and is very infective post exposure. Bathing the virus in them before contact, pretty much the same, but that's not we're talking about.

It's a subtle difference that's not so obvious straight away, because it is the same name for the same compound, but when you're talking chemical reagents (which are then uses in various products), it refers to two different refinement levels, and thus concentration, purity, and effectiveness.

Exfoliation certainly shouldn't be done too often, once a week at most, but is useful for preventing ingrown hairs when you're shaving, and build up of dry skin which can encourage cracks and breakage in the skin. And pair with a good moisturiser.
You should be named 'attentionseeker' not tailseeker

Offline scutty brown

It's not exactly the same, well the main chemical is the same. But an SDS solution is SDS with MQH20 or ddH20 (extra filtered and purified water). An SLS solution is SDS mixed with other alkyl sulfate chain lengths then diluted with MQH20 or ddH20...................

That may be the way your lab thinks of it, but that isn't standard usage. The two names are interchangeable.

TailSeeker

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That may be the way your lab thinks of it, but that isn't standard usage. The two names are interchangeable.

It's common usage in science as we take it from the manufacturers of reagents that we use (the unis I've worked and studied at all had that differentiation owing to suppliers). Granted it may not be universal and may be different in the cosmetic arena.

Offline MrMatrix

You should be named 'attentionseeker' not tailseeker
Why?
As I see it she knows a lot more about this subject than any one else. And is therefore trying to inform us. Yes its beyond me as well, but there are forum members who are clearly interested in what tailseeker has to say.

holland

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Why?
As I see it she knows a lot more about this subject than any one else. And is therefore trying to inform us. Yes its beyond me as well, but there are forum members who are clearly interested in what tailseeker has to say.
for me she is a prostitute who seek attention here.
if i need this type of information i refer to a specialist or specialised websites.
I respect your opinion though but i found her presence here very arrogant and annoying for the reason above.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 10:55:21 pm by holland »

Offline JayEZ2K

You should be named 'attentionseeker' not tailseeker

Why?
Because she's clearly External Link/Members Only us.

She might have a basic degree from Uni, maybe works as a nurse or technician, but I doubt any higher than that. The irony is trying to come off as having doctorate level knowledge (IMO), yet people at that level are very careful not to overstep what they actually know.

TailSeeker

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for me she is a prostitute who seek attention here.
if i need this type of information i refer to a specialist or specialised websites.
I respect your opinion though but i found her presence here very arrogant and annoying for the reason above.

That's fair enough, I do speak/type very matter of factly about scientific research for the fields I've been in. I started that way when people were assuming my research was directly applicable to humans, which it unfortunately isn't most of the time (occasionally we work directly with terminal patients at the hospital with human cells, and then it is in their case). But in most cases it is not.

I've been responding here and to other threads that are similar as there is a great deal of misinformation about STDs. Slightly good as it makes more people cautious, less so good as it creates falsehoods around causation/how easily they are spread/how to protect against them.

I know it can come off as arrogance, but what I am intending to do is parse the misunderstanding that can come from the simplified output of papers, and general misunderstanding of animal trials (I'd pull from my own publications that hit the news, but it'd quickly identify me, suffice to say, I had to explain how my work didn't cure/fix the issues).

holland

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That's fair enough, I do speak/type very matter of factly about scientific research for the fields I've been in. I started that way when people were assuming my research was directly applicable to humans, which it unfortunately isn't most of the time (occasionally we work directly with terminal patients at the hospital with human cells, and then it is in their case). But in most cases it is not.

I've been responding here and to other threads that are similar as there is a great deal of misinformation about STDs. Slightly good as it makes more people cautious, less so good as it creates falsehoods around causation/how easily they are spread/how to protect against them.

I know it can come off as arrogance, but what I am intending to do is parse the misunderstanding that can come from the simplified output of papers, and general misunderstanding of animal trials (I'd pull from my own publications that hit the news, but it'd quickly identify me, suffice to say, I had to explain how my work didn't cure/fix the issues).
I reported you as troll. :thumbsdown:
You are a nuisance here. If you want to write about medicine you are in the wrong site.


Online Kev40ish

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Because she's clearly External Link/Members Only us.

She might have a basic degree from Uni, maybe works as a nurse or technician, but I doubt any higher than that. The irony is trying to come off as having doctorate level knowledge (IMO), yet people at that level are very careful not to overstep what they actually know.

And what qualifications do you have that makes you think that?

Online Kev40ish

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I reported you as troll. :thumbsdown:
You are a nuisance here. If you want to write about medicine you are in the wrong site.

She is only responding to questions on here. Why should because her being an SP make her a troll?

holland

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She is only responding to questions on here. Why should because her being an SP make her a troll?
Because she goes completely off topic to talk about medicine and chemistry. She sounds mad to me and i doubt any real connections she claims to have with medicine.

'Doctor' tailseeker at work

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« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 12:55:16 am by holland »

Offline peter purves

I don’t think contacting the prossie the poster has in mind is a good idea. People can live with herpes for a long time and no symptoms until it is ‘triggered’ for some reason (reasons even include stress).

Why may I ask?

It may lead to a change in her sexual practices - if she does not know - which would benefit customers and help to minimise risks.

It is the first time I have decided to read this thread - Glad I did now. Had me thinking of Punther's post about the responsibilities for the WGs  but specifically
the punt(h)-er

Sorry to hear mate and all the very best
Banned reason: Can't / won't take advice.
Banned by: daviemac

TailSeeker

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She is only responding to questions on here. Why should because her being an SP make her a troll?
If admin finds I am a troll, that is fine. I do wish I could prove my history in the field of study, but that would identify me, and isn't without holes. But if admin requests it, I'll let him and him alone see my LinkedIn profile.

Online Kev40ish

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Because she goes completely off topic to talk about medicine and chemistry. She sounds mad to me

Hidden Image/Members Only

True, She seems quite interested in the subject but the facts seem quite genuine to me.
She may be as crazy as a cat at a dog show but the subject here is herpes

holland

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If admin finds I am a troll, that is fine. I do wish I could prove my history in the field of study, but that would identify me, and isn't without holes. But if admin requests it, I'll let him and him alone see my LinkedIn profile.
I think you mad seriosly.  :unknown:

TailSeeker

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I think you mad seriosly.  :unknown:
Fair enough, that is your opinion, you are entitled to it.

Online Kev40ish

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I think you mad seriosly.  :unknown:

It seems to me she’s passionate about the subject. It is good to see a WGs perspective on the subject

Offline EnglishRebecca121

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Shes a wg with a brain , that isnt liked on here. Remember we are all tax dodging lazy fat benifit claiments who cannot possibly have a brain....
Banned reason: Ex sex worker with zero useful contribution to make
Banned by: Head1

holland

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Shes a wg with a brain , that isnt liked on here. Remember we are all tax dodging lazy fat benifit claiments who cannot possibly have a brain....
Here we go ER man hater  :manhater:  :manhater:
we missed you here :sarcastic:

Online Kev40ish

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Here we go ER man hater  :manhater:  :manhater:
we missed you here :sarcastic:

Have you never met a smart switched on SP? There are quite a lot out there....
They know how to play the game..

TailSeeker

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Shes a wg with a brain , that isnt liked on here. Remember we are all tax dodging lazy fat benifit claiments who cannot possibly have a brain....
Don't worry about defending me hun, admin has the final rule and I will stick to that.

Offline MrMatrix

She is only responding to questions on here. Why should because her being an SP make her a troll?
+1. And she is only responding to questions here. Just cos she comes across as clever and technical doesn't mean shes a troll.  Do you know about herpes in this depth Holland. I don't and I'm a bright guy. I am interested in her proffessional perspective on this topic and feel she's genuine. I have no reason /evidence to think otherwise.

You have no basis as to make this challenge apart from "you think...". The subject matter is about Herpes and this thread invites peoples comments and opinions. As a forum member shes entitled to contribute her point of view.

Still as you've reported her as a troll- it will be interesting to see what Admin says.

Offline scutty brown

It's common usage in science as we take it from the manufacturers of reagents that we use (the unis I've worked and studied at all had that differentiation owing to suppliers). Granted it may not be universal and may be different in the cosmetic arena.

Then there's seriously some confusion going on. The two names are totally interchangeable. Any other usage is either confusion or pretence.

Offline Marmalade

I think she sounded as if she knew what she was talking about so if someone can cite a paper in rebuttal, all well and good. If she knows her subjects she will be able to answer a cogent criticism. But just claiming she’s wrong isn’t a cogent criticism or a scientific argument.

If she’s an attention seeker (and any WG post has a degree of attention seeking) then I’d personally give her some leeway on the thread unless someone can show she’s waffling.

Offline scutty brown

Nothing wrong with her scientific comments, just confusion over chemical nomenclature.

Offline Marmalade

Nothing wrong with her scientific comments, just confusion over chemical nomenclature.

So answer her properly if you are also acquainted with the subject Scutty.

Offline scutty brown

So answer her properly if you are also acquainted with the subject Scutty.

I already did in #42
Read the wiki article on Sodium dodecyl sulfate - External Link/Members Only
In organic chemistry dodecyl = lauryl = 12 carbon atoms

Raw material is dodecyl alcohol, which you can get by fractional distillation of hydrogenated palm or coconut oil. The oil is a mix of different fatty alcohols. As most of the material is used as cheap detergent, purification to a high degree is pointless
You can also directly synthesise whatever carbon chain length you want by using the Ziegler process. That can give you pure C-12 with no other fatty alcohols present - and is probably the feedstock for the reagent grade material she is using (you can get electrophoretic grade material at purities exceeding 99.999%)
Details of conversion of the alcohol to the sodium sulfate are in the wiki review.
My guess is that a tradition has grown up in her lab of calling the material made from the natural feedstock "lauryl", while the material with the synthetic feedstock became "dodecyl". In reality its a false distinction - fractional distillation of the natural oil gives a pure feedstock undistinguishable from the synthetic.

Offline Fat Bob


If you find you are developing, redness, rashes, or sores around your mouth, especially that quickly, it sounds like an allergic dermatitis. You'd be best going to a doctor to get assessed, as that pattern really doesn't sound like herpes.
Thanks TS, yeah I think you may be right.  My gut (and limited knowledge of allergy) was telling me that the occassional sores on my lips had an allergic basis, however, I was arm-wrestled into submission by the vast number of images and general guidance on the web that was pointing to herpes. Whilst the symptoms and visual appearance are near as damn it identical, the swift reaction time clearly rules out herpes.  Aye, I must remember not to believe everything that I read on the web, particularly when trying to self-diagnose. :dash:

Offline Marmalade

I already did in #42
Read the wiki article on Sodium dodecyl sulfate - External Link/Members Only
In organic chemistry dodecyl = lauryl = 12 carbon atoms

Raw material is dodecyl alcohol, which you can get by fractional distillation of hydrogenated palm or coconut oil. The oil is a mix of different fatty alcohols. As most of the material is used as cheap detergent, purification to a high degree is pointless
You can also directly synthesise whatever carbon chain length you want by using the Ziegler process. That can give you pure C-12 with no other fatty alcohols present - and is probably the feedstock for the reagent grade material she is using (you can get electrophoretic grade material at purities exceeding 99.999%)
Details of conversion of the alcohol to the sodium sulfate are in the wiki review.
My guess is that a tradition has grown up in her lab of calling the material made from the natural feedstock "lauryl", while the material with the synthetic feedstock became "dodecyl". In reality its a false distinction - fractional distillation of the natural oil gives a pure feedstock undistinguishable from the synthetic.

Not my area, but the sense I got from TailSeeker’s post is that, due to the production method, one ends up more diluted than the other. She did actually say it was a fine distinction.

Offline JayEZ2K

Not my area, but the sense I got from TailSeeker’s post is that, due to the production method, one ends up more diluted than the other. She did actually say it was a fine distinction.
No fine distinction, it was a bullshitting answer. I don't think it's done to be malicious, it's just done for attention as Holland pointed out. More details below.


... makes you think that?
1) Making a big display with fancy words like "MQH20" and "ddH20". Trivial points made to sound smarter. Only a "noob" would do this.

2) "mixed with other alkyl sulfate chain lengths then diluted"... Attempting to show excessively broad knowledge, now with chemistry. Which was wrong anyways.

3) "As such SLS has less effect than SDS and is very infective post exposure. Bathing the virus in them before contact, pretty much the same, but that's not we're talking about." <-- And now she's an expert on some very specialized research, yet clearly isn't an expert otherwise she would have known the paper I posted.


I think she sounded as if she knew what she was talking about so if someone can cite a paper in rebuttal, all well and good.
I did. She was caught out and then outed her self with bullshitting.

I've seen this before. It's the case of the forum "doctor" who likes to sound smart for the sake of approval/attention. Anyways, no need to beat a dead horse, but don't be bamboozled by "smart" sounding jargon. There's enough flags to tell me she's no expert. That's not to say that none of the info is correct, I would just recommend to confirm elsewhere if it's important.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 12:13:18 pm by JayEZ2K »

Offline scutty brown

Lets look at this in context
It seems most of the research on SLS/SDS in terms of antiviral activity was done in the early 2000's. The assumption is that the material lyses the protein coat of the virus. However what isn't stated is why they tested that material. My guess is that ANY fatty sodium sulphate detergent would have worked, but they used SLS/SDS because they had it readily available in a pure form, and it makes more sense to test a pure material than a mix. Pure Sodium dodecyl sulphate is a standard lab reagent.
Again its a guess, but I'd expect the analogous materials based on carbon chains of other lengths would be just as efficacious.
But remember - they didn't do any tests on women, just rabbits and mice

Offline Marmalade

There seems enough of a case there for TailSeeker to answer. Let’s see if she does. If not then it rather looks like her point is demolished.

Offline Xtro

Your brain did already.

All these scaremongering std stories and std trolls should have no space in ukpunting  :thumbsdown:
I love you too...... due to my lack of brain of course. sad.

Offline Waterhouse

+1. And she is only responding to questions here. Just cos she comes across as clever and technical doesn't mean shes a troll.  Do you know about herpes in this depth Holland. I don't and I'm a bright guy. I am interested in her proffessional perspective on this topic and feel she's genuine. I have no reason /evidence to think otherwise.

You have no basis as to make this challenge apart from "you think...". The subject matter is about Herpes and this thread invites peoples comments and opinions. As a forum member shes entitled to contribute her point of view.

Still as you've reported her as a troll- it will be interesting to see what Admin says.
Fully agree with this.

Personally I find Tailseekers posts to be knowledgeable and informative and that's something a lot of us could and should benefit from when it comes to punting risks and STIs.

Offline JayEZ2K

Lets look at this in context
It seems most of the research on SLS/SDS in terms of antiviral activity... My guess is that ANY fatty sodium sulphate detergent would have worked, but they used SLS/SDS because they had it readily available in a pure form... Sodium dodecyl sulphate is a standard lab reagent.
Exactly. Plus it's already approved for human use in many different forms (lotions, toothpaste, food products), so they were already past a major obstacle if it did work.

In any case, there are several legit reasons not discussed why it might not be effective as a preventative measure (none of which have to do with SDS not being SLS, which is just untrue). There's also some precedence as to why it might work, but maybe nobody knows if it does or doesn't. So my rationale is that if can be used without issue in lotions, body creams, and soaps, before and after punts, might as well.

Offline Marmalade

Ok. Now after the furore over was she wasn’t she touting, and putting OP straight on the difficulty of identifying one particular prossie as a carrier, maybe more useful to mention standard treatments.

Tea tree oil is one of the standards and has tentative medical approval, either alone or in combination with other oils.
External Link/Members Only

You can apply to the affected area directly and also to the base of the spine. It’s also available in a commercially more concentrated form for herpes though I forget the name. C-oil or something. If I remember I’ll post it.

Alternatively you can ask the Gum clinic for standard tablets (there’s a couple of different ones). They can be used to treat it and although the effect may take a day or two at least they relieve the discomfort while they work. If you get severe recurrences you can take them as a preventative and also at the very first itch of recurrence to prevent an attack.

SlamBoy

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Here we go ER man hater  :manhater:  :manhater:
we missed you here :sarcastic:

This 'Holland' punter has a history of getting 'excitable' when someone knows more than him about a topic (which isn't difficult as he has demonstrated his ignorance about a number of matters on a number of occasions).

He once gave an incorrect legal analysis about the definition of a brothel. When I provided the relevant law, he got very uppity and aggressive. One might think, given his past form, he might have anger management issues, and certainly an inferiority complex.

There is something very sinister about punters who are gratuitously rude to WGs who post on UKP (note the carefully bolded and italicised word). He is one of those guys.

So give it up Holland, no one is impressed by your keyboard warrior act here, you're making yourself look foolish (again).  :thumbsdown:

TailSeeker

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This is why I say SLS isn't the same.

SLS:  External Link/Members Only
SDS: External Link/Members Only

Now I admit it may not be the same for all labs, but the ones I've worked at have all taken it from refer to thermofisher and similar for identification.

TailSeeker

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1) Making a big display with fancy words like "MQH20" and "ddH20". Trivial points made to sound smarter. Only a "noob" would do this.
Sorry in science we refer to purified water as MQH20 (milli-Q) or ddH20 (double distilised) water. I used it to differentiate from normal tap water (which we don't use). It is a habit I've carried over when talking to others.

Quote
2) "mixed with other alkyl sulfate chain lengths then diluted"... Attempting to show excessively broad knowledge, now with chemistry. Which was wrong anyways.
Actually if you follow my previous reply, it does track. Granted it may not be true for all manufacturers.

Quote
3) "As such SLS has less effect than SDS and is very infective post exposure. Bathing the virus in them before contact, pretty much the same, but that's not we're talking about." <-- And now she's an expert on some very specialized research, yet clearly isn't an expert otherwise she would have known the paper I posted.
I do know the papers who have posted, and others, would you like me to reply to them directly? I'm happy to do so if you would like.
Bathing cells really isn't specialist, it's done in a lot of biology, the reagents just vary depending what you want. And in that case I'm specifically referring to what the papers do as their protocol, which is a good first step in determining efficacy. But isn't the same as topical applications as they state.

Offline scutty brown

This is why I say SLS isn't the same.

SLS:  External Link/Members Only
SDS: External Link/Members Only

Now I admit it may not be the same for all labs, but the ones I've worked at have all taken it from refer to thermofisher and similar for identification.

Believe it or not, that's just a silly naming inconsistency which hasn't been picked up on by the tech department at Fisher. The two different purity grades were added at different times and no-one has realised the difference. I know the people there, I'll ask the question of them. Bet I don't get an answer!

holland

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This 'Holland' punter has a history of getting 'excitable' when someone knows more than him about a topic (which isn't difficult as he has demonstrated his ignorance about a number of matters on a number of occasions).

He once gave an incorrect legal analysis about the definition of a brothel. When I provided the relevant law, he got very uppity and aggressive. One might think, given his past form, he might have anger management issues, and certainly an inferiority complex.

There is something very sinister about punters who are gratuitously rude to WGs who post on UKP (note the carefully bolded and italicised word). He is one of those guys.

So give it up Holland, no one is impressed by your keyboard warrior act here, you're making yourself look foolish (again).  :thumbsdown:
Sorry if i offended your beloved English Rebecca :sarcastic:

If it was for people like you ukpunting would be a dead website. :thumbsdown:
I contributes far more than your self to ukpunting.
I posted far more reviews, information of prossies, images of prossies and i helped punters in numerous occasions and  i helped to reveal whiteknights and trolls in numerous occasions.
So i have a very good trackabke record while yourself posts support pathetically prossies and critisize a fellow punter who contributes positively and regularly to the website.  :thumbsdown:

« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 01:10:32 pm by holland »

Offline scutty brown

Sorry if i offended your beloved English Rebecca :sarcastic:

If it was for people like you ukpunting would be a dead website. :thumbsdown:
I contributes far more than your self to ukpunting.
I posted far more reviews, information of prossies, images of prossies and i helped punters in numerous occasions and  i helped to reveal whiteknights and trolls in numerous occasions.
So i have a very good trackabke record while yourself post
pathetically critisize a fellow punter who contributes positively and regularly to the website

Yep, he's getting excited again
People who know they're right don't need to self-justify
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 01:11:29 pm by scutty brown »



holland

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Yep, he's getting excited again
People who know they're right don't need to self-justify
I just mentioned a few facts to reply a stupid post :hi

Offline MrMatrix

Sorry if i offended your beloved English Rebecca :sarcastic:

If it was for people like you ukpunting would be a dead website. :thumbsdown:
I contributes far more than your self to ukpunting.
I posted far more reviews, information of prossies, images of prossies and i helped punters in numerous occasions and  i helped to reveal whiteknights and trolls in numerous occasions.
So i have a very good trackabke record while yourself posts support pathetically prossies and critisize a fellow punter who contributes positively and regularly to the website.  :thumbsdown:
Well you've sent me a white knight gif when you were wrong and wouldn't admit to being wrong, despite the clear evidence. And I dont WK SPs. So there is a case here Holland.
And I have a better track record than you, but it doesn't prove anything. :hi:
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 04:25:56 pm by MrMatrix »

holland

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Well you've sent me a white knight gif when you were wrong and wouldn't admit to being wrong, despite the clear evidence. So there is a case here Holland.
And I have a better track record than you, but it doesn't prove anything. :hi:
:hi: