Rating a bait and switch as a positive.

[Bogof60]

+me

I've always been of the opinion that reveiws are for us punters not the whores.

Yes constable punter.

[mrfishyfoo]

Yes constable punter.

Who are reviews for then if they aren't for us ?? 

TWAT !!!

[AnthG]

Giving positive rating to a B&S punt will encourage pimps, prossies, parlours to do more B&S operations. Which is why a B&S always needs to be rated as negative regardless how good the punt was.

I am quoting Lwishamguy as he said the issue in the most succinct way to post.

The consensus of the topic has been "always give it a negative". But what about scenarios like in the northeast where the agencies are known to do foul-ups. Or just known to be useless on stuff like this that is not the girls fault (I know you can argue she shouldn't use them, but most girls in the NE start out by using an agency).

I will give an example. In my first year of punting in 2011. I booked a girl called Paris through Diamonds agency. They were renowned for messing up all the time.

The photos on the site were not her at all. It was obvious it was not her. But I had one of the best ever punts I had to date with the girl I actually seen. And the girl even said during the booking "I am not sure why they have those photos up there of me, as I never gave them, them".

The benefits of this forum's review system over others is it allows you free reign to describe the booking so in these cases you can give positive and say in the review text. I am giving the booking a positive review as I enjoyed it. However, the girl I seen is not the one in those photos at all.

And just to ask. What about other situations where you may as well have a bait and switch where girls post up photos of themselves that are so out of date they may as well be a different girl (i.e the girl has gained weight, had a baby and got scars and skin issues as a result, got 10 years older than when the photos were taken or etc).

[Bogof60]

Who are reviews for then if they aren't for us ?? 

TWAT !!!

Sorry officer
Yes's massa
I will do as I am told.
Yessiree

In which format would you like my next review sent to you for your approval

[mrfishyfoo]

Sorry officer
Yes's massa
I will do as I am told.
Yessiree

In which format would you like my next review sent to you for your approval

I don't give a fuck what format you use but since you asked there's a guide here that may help you if you're unsure what to do.

External Link/Members Only

Sarcastic twat !!! 

[Bogof60]

Sorry Massa

Read the link.
First line of ratings reads.
Your review. Your rating.

So in future as in the past I will ignore constable fishy. And any other punting police and will rate my review as I see fit within the rules set down by the site owner.

OK Bwana?

[vw]

+me

I've always been of the opinion that reveiws are for us punters not the whores.

Many sad cunts review for the escorts, some even review for pimps or uncle.

[mrfishyfoo]

Many sad cunts review for the escorts, some even review for pimps or uncle.

Indeed they do. 

They then get questioned by MrBogof60's "punting police" and get exposed as the dodgy cunts that they are. 

[Bogof60]

Punting Police also tell us which type ,age group, ethnicity, size and general level of attractiveness they find acceptable for the rest of us to punt with.
And then dictate how we should review them.

Up yours fishy

My punt my review.

Within the rules.

[The Owl]

B&S is tricky. Often it's the pimp cunt who is running the phones but the escort who gets fucked over with a straight up negative review and that can come back to hurt her if she wises up and drops the parasitic leech making money from her fucking a bunch of strangers. However if the escort chooses to work for a shit pimp then it's arguable that she needs to take part of the blame. Perhaps the solution is for punters to make two reviews, a straight up negative for the escort they booked to warn other punters about bait and switch bookings, then a review of the prostitute they did see but making it clear it was a B&S booking regardless of it being a negative, neutral or positive review.

[mrfishyfoo]

Punting Police also tell us which type ,age group, ethnicity, size and general level of attractiveness they find acceptable for the rest of us to punt with.
And then dictate how we should review them.

Up yours fishy

My punt my review.

Within the rules.

I charge for that. 

[mrfishyfoo]

Punting Police also tell us which type ,age group, ethnicity, size and general level of attractiveness they find acceptable for the rest of us to punt with.
And then dictate how we should review them.

Up yours fishy

My punt my review.

Within the rules.

Do they ?? 

Nobody tells me how and where to spend my hard earned. 

A punter that writes IMHO good reviews will tell us lot, using your words, which type ,age group, ethnicity, size and general level of attractiveness they find in the room as that is all helpfull stuff.

.....but what does that have to do with rating a B&S as a positive ??   

[Bogof60]

 
I ain't paying for your ass 

As for review ratings

As I said earlier

Most Thai or Chinese places switch the women on a regular basis.

If you go into this with eyes wide open then you should know this and rate accordingly.
A good quality switch IMHO can be rated as a.neutral

I only object to being told how to rate my reviews.
As long as the review gives enough information then we as punters should be able to judge for ourselves the quality of these review.

[RogerBoner]

By chance I've only been subject to B&S once with the Thais which I rated as a Negative for BritneyXXX but now I would also have done a positive for Nicole/Cherry. Another time the Mamasan phoned me back before I set off for Leicester to admit that the girl I wanted wasn't really there.

I still haven't come to a conclusion about the Oriental Weekly Switch Joints. The only true Chinese profile that I know of is Cecilia Chung. There aren't any photos of the girls in the switcharoo places. The EM thread about the switch joints has had few contributors and some who helpfully chipped in have been criticised for not posting reviews. If a strict rule comes in then Chinese FS will end up without any reviews because people will skip reading yet another Chinese Neg.

The Vivastreet Romanian fakes are definitely Negatives. I wrote a Negative for a Spanish beauty. She was gorgeous, the review reads as a Positive but was rated Negative. She has no profile so I can't see her unless I hang around Foxhall Road all day.

[Flunt]

Most Thai or Chinese places switch the women on a regular basis.

If you go into this with eyes wide open then you should know this and rate accordingly.
A good quality switch IMHO can be rated as a.neutral

I only object to being told how to rate my reviews.
As long as the review gives enough information then we as punters should be able to judge for ourselves the quality of these review.

There are two sides to my dilemma on this, firstly I agree with you that a B&S can be a good punt. On that basis, then why not a positive? The short answer is that you are assuming everyone reads all relevant reviews for a particular pro$$ie and has your knowledge and experience of punting. The more complex answer surrounds UKP as a resource for punters, those who lurk and leech, as well as valuable contributors.

Consider this: you book pro$$ie A, when you arrive you're greeted by pro$$ie B.

Pro$$ie B ticks your boxes and you're not surprised to find yet another B&S at your favourite haunt... so far so good. You stay and enjoy one of your best punts ever with pro$$ie B, why not a positive?

How is a punter supposed to benefit from any positive review in this scenario? Pro$$ie A could have 10 positive reviews but, potentially, no-one has ever seen her! Pro$$ie B could be there for a week, followed by pro$$ie C next week. What does your positive review represent, Pro$$ie A has a good profile offering a superb array of services at great vfm but you might get switched to pro$$ie B who is even better or in reality you could be greeted by Pro$$ie C who is the real Grotbags, charges double and only offers half the services? 

[mrfishyfoo]

I ain't paying for your ass 

As for review ratings

As I said earlier

Most Thai or Chinese places switch the women on a regular basis.

If you go into this with eyes wide open then you should know this and rate accordingly.
A good quality switch IMHO can be rated as a.neutral

I only object to being told how to rate my reviews.
As long as the review gives enough information then we as punters should be able to judge for ourselves the quality of these review.

So do I. 

As for the rest of it, other than my ass  , I'm inclined to agree. 

[PatMacGroin]

The introduction of the aggregate of ratings here has altered this debate.

External Link/Members Only

Bait and Switch bookings should not be marked positive.  Marking negative or neutral signals through the aggregate a necessary caution to other punters.

I agree with MrHP here that that the aggregate score for Pos, Neg, Neutral reviews is a key factor in influencing how UKP members should decide to rate their reviews.

That aggregate score at the top of the page is a big help in deciding whether or not to carry on reading the review. Particularly once an SP has built up enough reviews to give a reliable indication of whether or not she tends towards producing satisfied or unsatisfied customers.

Even more so now that UKP appears to be hitting approx 100 new reviews per day (e.g. 90 new reviews today, Wed 19th Sep). Maybe some of you do, but I don't always have time to read through the full history of reviews, to ensure that all the positive reviews were actually for the girl who's profile photo's I'm salivating over (even if the photo's are old, edited, whatever).

As I understand it, currently only the reviews with AW profiles are indexed together to create an aggregate (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Which adds to the argument that if an AW profile for an individual "independent" WG is a B&S (including because it has been swapped/sold to a new girl) it should automatically get a negative rating for the aggregate over-view.

Parlours, Agencies and even Viva profiles are not, which means at the moment there could be an argument to say each of those reviews stand alone. So each individual rating makes a big difference to if individual members will decide to read the review or not. In those circumstances, I can see the potential argument for listing an enjoyable B&S as a positive. However, I'm sure everyone can see the benefit of having profiles indexed together in the same way as AW profiles are (I understand this is something Admin has been working towards). When that happens, a lot of positive reviews for B&S profiles, could heavily skew those aggregate scores.

The collective power of UKP improves the punting expereince for so many of us. Avoiding giving positive reviews for B&S advertising can assist with that in so many ways. Most notably, encouraging providers to avoid the practice, by helping to choke off their supply of customers.

[LLPunting]

The worth of aggregates is less and less due to the swapping of profiles and the prevalence of B&S.

Unless you know for sure that it's the same SP running the profile (us posting contemporary photos when we review is necessary to assist with this) you need to look beyond the aggregate.  It's sloppy research if all you read is the top line summary stat.
You have to look at the time distribution of the reviews and read the most recent to confirm the consistent owner and their current performance.
This is why punters should post current reviews of current SPs regardless of how popular the SP is.

As I've said before the key value of a review is for fellow punters to be able to successfully avoid the bad ones in future even if they change name and profile ID OR book the same girl that was enjoyed regardless of name and ID she's trading under.  That's why photos and accurate and sufficient descriptions are necessary in a useful review.

Indexing on the other hand is very useful as the first listing to read through when doing research.

[stampjones]

I would agree with catweazle on this, it has to depend on circumstances. In any case it's entirely up to the reviewer how he rates his experience, there's no 'automatic' anything.

We all see and rate things differently and reviews should reflect that. If you think a bait and switch deserves a negative then review your experience as such, if another punter is happy with who he saw, even if it wasn't the one in the photo, he should be free to rate it as he sees fit, as long as he includes those details in his review we can all make our own minds up. No member has the right to dictate what ratings should be, though they are quite entitled to comment on the review.   

100% agree - the freedom to say what you want as long as you are clear on details trumps anything else imo.
It would probably help if B&S appeared prominently in the review title so that those who treat B&S as straight up neg can just ignore. Even better if there was a tickbox in the review template that flagged B&S reviews. That was everyone is happy

[king tarzan]

Automatic NEGATIVE. ...
no justifications...

[Chorley]

The worth of aggregates is less and less due to the swapping of profiles and the prevalence of B&S.

Unless you know for sure that it's the same SP running the profile (us posting contemporary photos when we review is necessary to assist with this) you need to look beyond the aggregate.  It's sloppy research if all you read is the top line summary stat.
You have to look at the time distribution of the reviews and read the most recent to confirm the consistent owner and their current performance.
This is why punters should post current reviews of current SPs regardless of how popular the SP is.

As I've said before the key value of a review is for fellow punters to be able to successfully avoid the bad ones in future even if they change name and profile ID OR book the same girl that was enjoyed regardless of name and ID she's trading under.  That's why photos and accurate and sufficient descriptions are necessary in a useful review.

Indexing on the other hand is very useful as the first listing to read through when doing research.

Most of the VS Oriental profiles use fake photos, or some generic body pic which could be anyone. So I can't really see the point of using hjosr photos when it's some Instagram model or random bird. 
Although I'm  sure you'll be along to tell me I'm wrong. 

[Flunt]

Most of the VS Oriental profiles use fake photos, or some generic body pic which could be anyone. So I can't really see the point of using hjosr photos when it's some Instagram model or random bird. 
Although I'm  sure you'll be along to tell me I'm wrong. 

You go to a punt and find a big belly and stretch marks on the pro$$ie you were expecting, but you had a good time. Positive/Neutral/Negative?

[king tarzan]

You go to a punt and find a big belly and stretch marks on the pro$$ie you were expecting, but you had a good time. Positive/Neutral/Negative?

I leave....

[Chorley]

You go to a punt and find a big belly and stretch marks on the pro$$ie you were expecting, but you had a good time. Positive/Neutral/Negative?

Happened to me. There's a review of mine where I was B&S, but I knew going in that it wasn't going to be the girl as the pic was some Chinese film star. Had a decent enough shag with a Chinese millf an d rated it a neutral.
Some members on here will berate me for giving not giving a negative, but as I've said before, you're NEVER going to get the girl in the pic from these VS Oriental profiles.
If your not happy, then surely you'd walk anyway? 

You'll be eternally please everyone on here and there will always be members who have strong opinions, do I say perhaps rate the girl you DO see, but maybe give the meet overall as a neg and put it in the title as B&S to alert other punters

[vw]

Happened to me. There's a review of mine where I was B&S, but I knew going in that it wasn't going to be the girl as the pic was some Chinese film star. Had a decent enough shag with a Chinese millf an d rated it a neutral.
Some members on here will berate me for giving not giving a negative, but as I've said before, you're NEVER going to get the girl in the pic from these VS Oriental profiles.
If your not happy, then surely you'd walk anyway? 

You'll be eternally please everyone on here and there will always be members who have strong opinions, do I say perhaps rate the girl you DO see, but maybe give the meet overall as a neg and put it in the title as B&S to alert other punters

Asian Immunity it seems to me. 

[Chorley]

Asian Immunity it seems to me.

Qué?

[vw]

Qué?

Asian immunity a phenomenon where, punters give Asian pimps a free pass where non Asians would be reviewed differently.

[Kerosene]

I wasn't about when UKP started, but I gather originally reviews were either positive or negative, neutral being added later. Is there possibly a case for a fourth category of B&S, distinct from the other three?

[Chorley]

I wasn't about when UKP started, but I gather originally reviews were either positive or negative, neutral being added later. Is there possibly a case for a fourth category of B&S, distinct from the other three?

Good call

[LLPunting]

Most of the VS Oriental profiles use fake photos, or some generic body pic which could be anyone. So I can't really see the point of using hjosr photos when it's some Instagram model or random bird. 
Although I'm  sure you'll be along to tell me I'm wrong. 

Sorry, my point above about photos was about profiles considered genuine before visiting.  For the known/suspected (non-)Asian B&S operations if you decide to proceed with that knowledge then you should:

1)  Get the girl's name when you meet
2)  Take a good mental note of what she looks like so an identifying description can be given in review, particularly features visible when dressed.
3)  Add "Expected B&S confirmed" to title

If you decide to stay for service then:
4)  Review and rate girl's performance
5)  Confirm if the WG can be consistently booked via the profile, ask her how to book her again if you like her.

B&S photos are sometimes re-used so no harm in attaching some/all of the better ones so we're all aware which images should set our alarm bells ringing.

I know the expectation and likelihood is that a B&S op will provide poor quality WGs  but it's still worth building a profile of an operation's performance offering over time.
The Inverness Terrace crew and some of the long established places listed by AM never post actual pics but the girls you met were consistently bookable and some worth revisiting.
Automatic branding of a given URL or identifiable operation as "Negative" because it's "B&S" negates the usefulness of the performance rating reflecting the quality of the girls it has historically supplied.  Brand offerings evolve over time whether KIAs, Alfa Romeos, Hoovers, reputed SPs, parlours who post fake pics, parlours who don't post any pics.  Some you couldn't depend on became dependable and vice-versa.  A history of genuine performance reflects that.  A bigoted perpetual branding does not.

[LLPunting]

I wasn't about when UKP started, but I gather originally reviews were either positive or negative, neutral being added later. Is there possibly a case for a fourth category of B&S, distinct from the other three?

A useful suggestion      

[mrfishyfoo]

A useful suggestion      

I agree this would be useful.

This was a banging fuck with a really enthusiatic lass BUT it was a bait and switch. I so wanted to rate it positive BUT how could I ??

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=225816.0

[HailWood]

My opinion is that any B&S starts as a negative but can be mitigated to a neutral if the lass actually seen was a reasonable approximation (looks and physically) and delivered a good service. In exceptional circumstances I could go as far as positive if her attitude was first class also. However, I would try to make it clear in the title it was B&S and use the lass’s name who I met (if known).
Any such mitigation (grey or green) should not be indexed to the original lass that you booked so she does not benefit from a review which isn’t a red.

[MagicMatt]

A B&S IMO should always start as a NEG and I'm not even sure it's easy to move up from there.

Reviews are predominantly designed to give info to the rests of us so we can decide if the location / girl / service / price is to our taste.

How can these reviews be useful to others when:-
A) It differs from the providers advert
B) They wont necessarily experience the same girl as your review

[tesla]

I agree this would be useful.

This was a banging fuck with a really enthusiatic lass BUT it was a bait and switch. I so wanted to rate it positive BUT how could I ??

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=225816.0

the answer is two reviews a neg for the bait and switch and a pos for the punt you had with reference to the neg

[Sonny Crockett]

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

There's been some "heated" debate recently on the YandH regional review board about rating bait and switch punts as positives with the authors getting "somewhat defensive" IMHO when they are questioned.

IMHO a bait and switch should ALWAYS automatically warrant a negative review, even if the punter knows beforehand that it's going to be a bait and switch. The negative can then IMHO be upped to a neutral if the punt/service was good.

IMHO it should NEVER warrant a positive as that condones shady/sharp practice.

I fully agree with that.

[MagicMatt]

Maybe Admin could add a "B&S" tick box to the reviews section and add that to the profile aggregate.
This way the actual session could be reviewed as per the punter sees fit and we could get an informed view of our booking potential, which is what reviews are for.

I'd consider a B&S if x% ratings we're positive

[Flunt]

I'd consider a B&S if x% ratings we're positive

The problem is, you have no idea who you're going to meet? That's the negative of a B&S... 

[mrfishyfoo]

The problem is, you have no idea who you're going to meet? That's the negative of a B&S... 

Exactly !!! 

Been an interesting thread this one.

My opinion remains as per my OP.