Has your energy company gone bust?

[GingerNuts]

wonder how many energy companies are left.... will we end up having nationalise it all again because theres 1 one company standing but about to die?

Difficult to find a current complete list but some 30 odd. The big six (British Gas, EDF Energy, E.ON, npower - now part of E.ON, Scottish Power and SSE) have 70% of the market. The four top "new" providers (OVO Energy, Shell Energy, Octopus Energy and Bulb Energy - who are still technically trading) have 17.5% of the market.

[lillythesavage]

wonder how many energy companies are left.... will we end up having nationalise it all again because theres 1 one company standing but about to die?

It has not improved things since being sold off, 

[anyfucker]

I have learned that the situation with independent retailers going bust is simlar in Singapore "Almost all of the independent retailers were forced out of the market, leaving a significant number of consumers previously on fixed price tariffs at the mercy of the spot market"
Gas supplies from Indonesai have been reduced.

[anyfucker]

UK energy suppliers will face new financial stress tests from January as part of a series of plans from the industry regulator to boost the sector’s resilience after rocketing market prices for gas and electricity caused dozens to collapse.
Citizens Advice has laid the blame for the spiralling cost of managing the crisis on Ofgem for failing to take action against rule-breaking suppliers for almost 10 years despite mounting concerns over the energy market.
External Link/Members Only

We are fortunate that it has been a fairly mild winter this year.

[lillythesavage]

UK energy suppliers will face new financial stress tests from January as part of a series of plans from the industry regulator to boost the sector’s resilience after rocketing market prices for gas and electricity caused dozens to collapse.
Citizens Advice has laid the blame for the spiralling cost of managing the crisis on Ofgem for failing to take action against rule-breaking suppliers for almost 10 years despite mounting concerns over the energy market.
External Link/Members Only

We are fortunate that it has been a fairly mild winter this year.

There will not be many left to regulate, sure more will go before then.

I read the other day, windfarm owners were paid 5 million quid to shut down for Barra, get a bit of wind and they get paid not to generate, because there was no demand, probably because of all the homes etc, without power. 

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Well we do have the National Grid which can shunt power around if theres too much wind or the windymills feather their blades  to stay intact then the Gas will be turned up to compensate.

Anyway the electricly supply is fucked !..

[lillythesavage]

Well we do have the National Grid which can shunt power around if theres too much wind or the windymills feather their blades  to stay intact then the Gas will be turned up to compensate.

Anyway the electricly supply is fucked !..

It was the National Grid that paid the the 5 million to switch off, been paying tens of millions every year 

External Link/Members Only

[Blackpool Rock]

Well we do have the National Grid which can shunt power around if theres too much wind or the windymills feather their blades  to stay intact then the Gas will be turned up to compensate.

Anyway the electricly supply is fucked !..

You normally complain there isn't enough wind so turbines are useless, make your mind up 

[Marmalade]

What I don’t quite understand is that I was ‘transferred’ from Avro (now bust) to Octopus.
But no debits have appeared on my bank statements from Octopus but my (absurdly low, Flipper negotiated) monthly debit to Avro is still appearing.

[petermisc]

UK energy suppliers will face new financial stress tests from January as part of a series of plans from the industry regulator to boost the sector’s resilience after rocketing market prices for gas and electricity caused dozens to collapse.
Citizens Advice has laid the blame for the spiralling cost of managing the crisis on Ofgem for failing to take action against rule-breaking suppliers for almost 10 years despite mounting concerns over the energy market.

The underlying reason is that no business can continue supplying its product at a loss indefinitely.  On the IoM, where there is no price cap, domestic energy prices have already gone up by 27.5%, and the supplier has applied to raise them yet again.

[anyfucker]

The underlying reason is that no business can continue supplying its product at a loss indefinitely.  On the IoM, where there is no price cap, domestic energy prices have already gone up by 27.5%, and the supplier has applied to raise them yet again.

+1
There's a consultation about the price cap going on at the moment.
If a business has to charge less that it pays out then it will eventually go bust but some people seem to think prices can just be regulated 

[lillythesavage]

What I don’t quite understand is that I was ‘transferred’ from Avro (now bust) to Octopus.
But no debits have appeared on my bank statements from Octopus but my (absurdly low, Flipper negotiated) monthly debit to Avro is still appearing.

You really need to look into that, I doubt Octopus would take over bank accounts or honour your cheap deal, I assume you go on the capped rate

[Watts.E.Dunn]

You normally complain there isn't enough wind so turbines are useless, make your mind up 

Well they don't produce over a very wide wind veloicty, can't rely on the useless things!....

[Blackpool Rock]

Well they don't produce over a very wide wind veloicty, can't rely on the useless things!....

Really, is that just a throw away comment 

According to this they can produce with as little as 5.5m/s
External Link/Members Only.

And according to this they are also OK in stormy winds too of 42.5m/s which is 94mph, impressive right 
External Link/Members Only

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Well today the Windy mills are prodcucing all of

Wind 0.66GW
(1.65%)

Fall apart speed?..

Well 55 MPH here...

External Link/Members Only

That whole induistry is full of charlatans

I mean!..

The Hydro and Wind Company Securing a clean energy future, profitably...

Blah Blah..

I can see the Wadlow wind farm from where i work. most days the blades are barely moving.

Like today and with a .66 GW country wide output.

[Blackpool Rock]

Well today the Windy mills are prodcucing all of

Wind 0.66GW
(1.65%)

Fall apart speed?..

Well 55 MPH here...

External Link/Members Only

That whole induistry is full of charlatans

I mean!..

The Hydro and Wind Company Securing a clean energy future, profitably...

Blah Blah..

I can see the Wadlow wind farm from where i work. most days the blades are barely moving.

Like today and with a .66 GW country wide output.

Yeah agreed wind farms don't / won't produce much when the wind isn't blowing which is why the network needs expanding so that excess energy can be stored for later use when there's a surplus

[anyfucker]

Yeah agreed wind farms don't / won't produce much when the wind isn't blowing which is why the network needs expanding so that excess energy can be stored for later use when there's a surplus

French nuclear is providing 5% but today I've heard they have taken two reactors off-line due to cracks, if they can't keep supplying us then they'll have to burn more gas 
luckily Russia has now booked more capacity to supply gas to Europe.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

French nuclear is providing 5% but today I've heard they have taken two reactors off-line due to cracks, if they can't keep supplying us then they'll have to burn more gas 
luckily Russia has now booked more capacity to supply gas to Europe.

The French are quite well sorted with their eleectric power, lots of Nuclear and Hydro they to quite some extent are the power station of europe espically since the stupid bint merkle shut theri nuclear stations to appease the stupid greens so now they burn Lignite nasty polluting muck!...

External Link/Members Only

[anyfucker]

The French are quite well sorted with their eleectric power, lots of Nuclear and Hydro they to quite some extent are the power station of europe espically since the stupid bint merkle shut theri nuclear stations to appease the stupid greens so now they burn Lignite nasty polluting muck!...

External Link/Members Only

Well, from your link, they're burning quite a lot of gas, coal and biomass (trees usually) whilst importing from Spain and Germany.

[Blackpool Rock]

French nuclear is providing 5% but today I've heard they have taken two reactors off-line due to cracks, if they can't keep supplying us then they'll have to burn more gas 
luckily Russia has now booked more capacity to supply gas to Europe.

Yeah let's have more nuclear, what could possibly go wrong 

Now when it comes to nuclear disasters I know there has been a few, namely Chernobyl; 3 mile island; Sellafield and Fukushima but I wasn't aware of any others, just Googled and there's about 28 on this list
External Link/Members Only

At least if a wind turbine fails it doesn't potentially spew radiation half way around the world 

[ronthebrummie]

Mr Rock do you realise the cost of materials, manufacturing and positioning of a turbine, the said turbine will never generate enough power to pay for itself.
You’re being blinkered by the green lobby.

[Blackpool Rock]

Mr Rock do you realise the cost of materials, manufacturing and positioning of a turbine, the said turbine will never generate enough power to pay for itself.
You’re being blinkered by the green lobby.

I'm far from a tree hugger I can assure you, anyway any credible links to your claim 

External Link/Members Only

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Well, from your link, they're burning quite a lot of gas, coal and biomass (trees usually) whilst importing from Spain and Germany.

Yes looking at EDF engineering Four reactors have found pipe problems and will be down for a while which has led to a shortfall but they do have greater  gen capacity that most i expect they'll manage.

Lets hope that Mr Putin doesnt get mean with the the Gas taps which he could do if he dosent get his way over the Ukranie issue;!!

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Yeah let's have more nuclear, what could possibly go wrong 

Now when it comes to nuclear disasters I know there has been a few, namely Chernobyl; 3 mile island; Sellafield and Fukushima but I wasn't aware of any others, just Googled and there's about 28 on this list
External Link/Members Only

At least if a wind turbine fails it doesn't potentially spew radiation half way around the world 

Well not that bad overall and over that timescale apart of the buggering around wth the system at Chernobyl and if the Russians were more proactive and issued Idione tablets then may less possible cancers but politics got in the way!.

As to the others more to do with industrial accidents then simple radioactive issues..

Ever seen the number of deaths in the coal mining industry over time?...

We need another good strom to get them windy mills on the go again don't we;!

Wind 0.91GW
(2.47%)

[lillythesavage]

Well not that bad overall and over that timescale apart of the buggering around wth the system at Chernobyl and if the Russians were more proactive and issued Idione tablets then may less possible cancers but politics got in the way!.

As to the others more to do with industrial accidents then simple radioactive issues..

Ever seen the number of deaths in the coal mining industry over time?...

We need another good strom to get them windy mills on the go again don't we;!

Wind 0.91GW
(2.47%)

You obviously have not read all the posts, storm comes, National grid pay millions to wind farms to switch off, not really working are they

[Blackpool Rock]

The French are quite well sorted with their eleectric power, lots of Nuclear and Hydro they to quite some extent are the power station of europe espically since the stupid bint merkle shut theri nuclear stations to appease the stupid greens so now they burn Lignite nasty polluting muck!...

External Link/Members Only

Hmmm just read this about France's love of Nuclear power and how they are looking to reduce it 

Currently 70% of their power but set to be cut to 50% in 15 years time

External Link/Members Only

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Hmmm just read this about France's love of Nuclear power and how they are looking to reduce it 

Currently 70% of their power but set to be cut to 50% in 15 years time

External Link/Members Only

"France has also pledged to reduce its reliance on nuclear power by shutting down 12 nuclear reactors by 2035".

Bloody daft!...


The move has been criticised by Germany, which is in the process of phasing out nuclear completely and only has a few plants remaining.


Fucking stupid gormless idiots!!!!

What do they propose to do when the winds not there?. Rely as they do now on the French for a top up?...

[lostandfound]

You obviously have not read all the posts, storm comes, National grid pay millions to wind farms to switch off, not really working are they

We need more of those electrolysers to turn that excess wind energy in to hydrogen - like the 20 MW one being built at Whitelee wind farm near Glasgow

External Link/Members Only

And the 60 MW electrolyser BP are going to build on Teeside - with ambitions to scale it up to 500 MW - and 1 GW in "Blue Hydrogen"

External Link/Members Only

[anyfucker]

Another council-backed energy company has gone bust, leaving local taxpayers to pick up the tab for an enormous loss.
This is yet another example of why councils should not be "investing" in energy companies.

Energy firm half owned by Labour-run Warrington council following 'flawed' and 'risky investment' goes bust leaving 176,000 without a supplier and town's taxpayers facing £52 MILLION losses

External Link/Members Only

[Watts.E.Dunn]

It added:  'Our vision was to be part of a company that tackles the climate emergency by delivering 100 per cent green energy to customers, contributes to reducing fuel poverty and provides local jobs in Warrington – particularly for those out of work or without formal qualifications - but the current market conditions are sadly not sustainable.

Green council?, more like they'll be our downfall the fecking Greenies!!

[lillythesavage]

It added:  'Our vision was to be part of a company that tackles the climate emergency by delivering 100 per cent green energy to customers, contributes to reducing fuel poverty and provides local jobs in Warrington – particularly for those out of work or without formal qualifications - but the current market conditions are sadly not sustainable.

Green council?, more like they'll be our downfall the fecking Greenies!!

 

I just heard on the news, tankers at sea are turning around and heading here because of the price we are paying for gas, diverting from China etc.

I think councils employing high paid CEO,s is behind poor investment, when they would be better employed actually getting workers to work the hours they are contracted for. 

[Gordon Bennett]

Mr Rock do you realise the cost of materials, manufacturing and positioning of a turbine, the said turbine will never generate enough power to pay for itself.
You’re being blinkered by the green lobby.

Why does it have to pay for itself? How does a street-light or zebra crossing or pavement pay for itself? There are certain things that are basic infrastructural requirements that have to be built and maintained simply to facilitate normal every day living.

Something needs to be done today to ensure that the UK has sufficient energy available for the decades ahead. Its reasonable to expect value for money and some sort of longevity from whatever generating capacity we pay for today but that doesn't mean it must pay for itself.

[lillythesavage]

Why does it have to pay for itself? How does a street-light or zebra crossing or pavement pay for itself? There are certain things that are basic infrastructural requirements that have to be built and maintained simply to facilitate normal every day living.

Something needs to be done today to ensure that the UK has sufficient energy available for the decades ahead. Its reasonable to expect value for money and some sort of longevity from whatever generating capacity we pay for today but that doesn't mean it must pay for itself.

Of course they pay for themselves, nobody would invest or put them up if they did not, the National Grid pay them millions to turn the bloody things off on windy days.

You are right, years of taking profits by private companies, ignoring storage and infrastructure, buying cheap and making a nice profit, we need to get a grip and spend for the future, or be a the mercy of foreign racketeers.

It seems we are only getting gas by paying more than anyone else. 

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Buggered ain't we;!....

[lillythesavage]

Buggered ain't we;!....

If ships are turning round mid journey for the Great British pound, it obviously is not a global problem, stinks of our energy companies not planning ahead and panic buying to feed winter needs, of course expecting us to pay for their problems. 

Of course part of the problem is those surviving have far more customers than expected, so need to buy more, the regulator is at fault in my mind, most of them should not been allowed to enter the market.

[anyfucker]

Of course they pay for themselves, nobody would invest or put them up if they did not, the National Grid pay them millions to turn the bloody things off on windy days.

You are right, years of taking profits by private companies, ignoring storage and infrastructure, buying cheap and making a nice profit, we need to get a grip and spend for the future, or be a the mercy of foreign racketeers.

It seems we are only getting gas by paying more than anyone else. 

Why do you think any other country should sell gas to us at a lower price than anyone else pays? The US certainly won't.
We need to have long term contracts not short term contracts subject to daily changes in the market place.
Like it or not Russia has something like 100 years supply at current rates so if it is possible we should commit with them for a significant percentage of our requirements. Way more efficient to come by pipe than by ship.

Recently we have had a few cold, foggy windless days (like every year) and the amount of electricity produced by wind and solar was tiny.
Running the gas plants and nukes at full just about makes up for it.

[Marmalade]

Why do you think any other country should sell gas to us at a lower price than anyone else pays? The US certainly won't.
We need to have long term contracts not short term contracts subject to daily changes in the market place.
Like it or not Russia has something like 100 years supply at current rates so if it is possible we should commit with them for a significant percentage of our requirements. Way more efficient to come by pipe than by ship.

Recently we have had a few cold, foggy windless days (like every year) and the amount of electricity produced by wind and solar was tiny.
Running the gas plants and nukes at full just about makes up for it.

Of course we can trust Russia to keep their word. 

[anyfucker]

Of course we can trust Russia to keep their word. 

They have met all their contractual requirements - and these will be at prices below spot.
“The deliveries from Gazprom, which has a monopoly on pipeline exports of Russian gas to Europe, are at the regular rate. They have, as far as we know, followed all the contractual commitments,” Dennis Hesseling, head of the infrastructure, gas, and retail department at the EU Agency for the Cooperation of Energy Regulators, told Euronews last week.
Angela Merkel, meanwhile, said that Russia could only deliver on the basis of "contractual commitments," asking whether there had been enough gas orders to the country.
Europe's largest energy companies confirmed to Reuters that Gazprom had fulfilled its contracts as well.
What they have not done is to sell more gas on the spot market and there is no obligation for them to do so.
The US has tried very hard to prevent the newly completed Nord Stream 2 pipeline from coming into operation (Germany has delayed the certification) and is now pushing the "war, war" propaganda full pelt so why should Russia help out at all?

[lillythesavage]

Why do you think any other country should sell gas to us at a lower price than anyone else pays? The US certainly won't.
We need to have long term contracts not short term contracts subject to daily changes in the market place.
Like it or not Russia has something like 100 years supply at current rates so if it is possible we should commit with them for a significant percentage of our requirements. Way more efficient to come by pipe than by ship.

Recently we have had a few cold, foggy windless days (like every year) and the amount of electricity produced by wind and solar was tiny.
Running the gas plants and nukes at full just about makes up for it.

I do not think they should sell it cheaper to us, but if ships are heading here, diverting from original destination, our energy management has been royally fucked up to the point of paying OVER THE ODDS, to get gas.

Electricity is another matter, Gas is causing the major energy price increases.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

I do not think they should sell it cheaper to us, but if ships are heading here, diverting from original destination, our energy management has been royally fucked up to the point of paying OVER THE ODDS, to get gas.

Electricity is another matter, Gas is causing the major energy price increases.

ANd do bear in mind that Gas is the main contributoir to electricty generation..

Espcally if its cloudy and the wind she is having a strop;!..


External Link/Members Only.

[lillythesavage]

ANd do bear in mind that Gas is the main contributoir to electricty generation..

Espcally if its cloudy and the wind she is having a strop;!..


External Link/Members Only.

Fair enough, but it is still gas causing the problem, with little or no storage the companies have relied on the daily market, rather than buying ahead and royally fucked us and expect us to pay up.

Those that did buy ahead have had new customers dumped on them, meaning whatever they bought goes quicker, a royal mess.

[tynetunnel]

The issue is that we now have next to no gas storage.

In the midst of a global energy crisis Europe entered the winter with its lowest reserves of gas in at least 10 years. The UK, which has some of the continent’s lowest gas storage capacity, stores enough gas to meet the demand of just four to five winter days, or just 1% of Europe’s total available storage. The Netherlands has capacity more than nine times the UK’s, while Germany’s is 16 times the size.

[petermisc]

The issue is that we now have next to no gas storage.

In the midst of a global energy crisis Europe entered the winter with its lowest reserves of gas in at least 10 years. The UK, which has some of the continent’s lowest gas storage capacity, stores enough gas to meet the demand of just four to five winter days, or just 1% of Europe’s total available storage. The Netherlands has capacity more than nine times the UK’s, while Germany’s is 16 times the size.

Having little storage made sense when we had North Sea gas on tap.  But as that source has been running down, we have become more and more reliant on imports.

It is all very well blaming the private suppliers, but they operate in a market controlled by the government.  A market designed to give consumers the cheapest short-term prices through competition, but at the expense of long-term investment in infrastructure.  A market where any company investing more than it absolutely needs to meet regulatory requirements puts itself at a price disadvantage.  We are where we are through decades of government policy, and price comparison websites encouraging everyone to switch to the supplier with the cheapest prices.

[Marmalade]

They have met all their contractual requirements - and these will be at prices below spot.

Yes that's true. But I don't think it is as simple as that. Especially if Ukraine goes whoopsie. Russia is very good at "keeping its contracts" and then maybe explaining, when it suits her, that the other side has broken them. But at the moment there is a gas shortage compared to requirements -- which have gone up considerably. We need more than contracted, and although we don't get that much directly from Russia, I think Russia will maybe be able to influence spot prices.

[anyfucker]

Yes that's true. But I don't think it is as simple as that. Especially if Ukraine goes whoopsie. Russia is very good at "keeping its contracts" and then maybe explaining, when it suits her, that the other side has broken them. But at the moment there is a gas shortage compared to requirements -- which have gone up considerably. We need more than contracted, and although we don't get that much directly from Russia, I think Russia will maybe be able to influence spot prices.

Yes, Russia can influence spot prices by selling more or less on the spot market, just as any major producer can whether it's gas or oil e.g. OPEC increases or decreases production.
The question for them is why should they offer more on the spot market when it will have to transit via Poland or Ukraine and pay transit fees to Poland or Ukraine both of whom are very anti-Russia when the gas could easily go via Nordstream 2 directly to Germany without transit fees.
Ukraine was previously siphoning off (stealing) a percentage of the gas and also not paying for gas they consumed themselves, Russia now asks for cash up front.
Germany is selling (Russian) gas to Poland via Yamal pipe i think, because Poland won't buy directly from Russia 

[Marmalade]

Mr Biden says he’ll help Europe with some gas…
Hidden Image/Members Only
If nice Mr Putin agrees. 

[radioman33]

The warm home discount should be doubled to £280 (£140 now).It will get to the point where if a quarterly bill is £600, unaffordable more than you are earning nobody will pay.Company Puts in a prepayment meter,higher bill,give up paying altogether.In America energy is much cheaper than here.

[Blackpool Rock]

The warm home discount should be doubled to £280 (£140 now).It will get to the point where if a quarterly bill is £600, unaffordable more than you are earning nobody will pay.Company Puts in a prepayment meter,higher bill,give up paying altogether.In America energy is much cheaper than here.

People should think about how much energy they are using though too, some don't think they should have to put a jumper on mid winter then complain about how much their bills are as they wander around their house in a T shirt like they are walking in a sub tropical paradise.

I'm amazed at some of the latest advice to only heat the rooms you are using and turn the thermostat down; put a jumper on etc, i've always done that as it's basic common sense surely 

What is a problem in this country is the poor quality housing in terms of insulation etc and the Govt would be better off plugging the leaks so less energy is required to heat houses rather than just increasing fuel allowances.

What ever happened to the last lot of grants that were announced  I looked at it for someone who has single glazing and whose house is cold in winter as a result but to get any money for double glazing etc you 1st had to pay out a stupid amount of money for a heat pump / similar which made it unaffordable for them 

[anyfucker]

The warm home discount should be doubled to £280 (£140 now).It will get to the point where if a quarterly bill is £600, unaffordable more than you are earning nobody will pay.Company Puts in a prepayment meter,higher bill,give up paying altogether.In America energy is much cheaper than here.

So you think tax payers should subsidise energy costs? It was like this in USSR so people left ovens on 24x7 to keep the house warm.
In America it is cheaper mostly because they have gone in for fracking, we have not but could.

[Blackpool Rock]

So you think tax payers should subsidise energy costs? It was like this in USSR so people left ovens on 24x7 to keep the house warm.
In America it is cheaper mostly because they have gone in for fracking, we have not but could.

Well they gave it a go near Blackpool and shut it down due to all the protests etc and the Govt has banned it