Brothel Keeping. A cautionary tale

[munterhunter]

According to various newsfeeds Natalie Davis owner of Butterflys Sauna in Weston Super Mare was jailed in 2019 for 2 years 6 months for controlling prostitutes for financial gain.
While running Butterfly's Ms Davis claimed £18,000 in disability benefit. Enter the DWP and Avon & Somerset Constabulary intent on doing her for benefit fraud to the Value of £18,000. That is till financial investigations showed she had assets valued at £650,000 from running a brothel and had a Eureka moment!
Running a brothel is illegal.
We can convict her of benefit fraud and snatch back the 18 grand. OR
We can charge her with brothel keeping offer to drop the charge tp controlling prostitutes for financial gain in return for a guilty plea and snaffle the full 650 grand under Proceeds of Crime.
That's what they did. On July 24th Bristol Crown Court ordered the confiscation of £650,000.
If there's a moral to this story. If you are earning a fortune from running a parlour don't be greedy by trying to fidfle your tax, make fraudulent claims for benefit or commit any crime for financial benefit because if you do this could happen to you.
A % of that £650,000 will go to Avon & Somerset Police to help them fight crime in their area. Let's hope this doesn't fire up the old bill to take a close look at how much money could be confiscated by targetting brothel keepers!

[Goldfinch]

External Link/Members Only press.co.uk/news/weston-brothel-owner-natalie-davis-ordered-to-repay-650-000-gained-through-crime-1-6769991

[daviemac]

Not sure why you are advising pimps on how to avoid getting caught.   

Edit

She was prosecuted for benefit fraud as well, she got a 32-week prison sentence suspended for 18 months and was ordered to undertake 50 hours of unpaid work and pay compensation.

[munterhunter]

Not sure why you are advising pimps on how to avoid getting caught.   

I'm not telling pimps how not to get caught just commenting on a story and stating the obvious. If you are running an illegal business that benifits you the women who work for you and the punters who pay then don't rock the boat!

The only way they can avoid getting caught is not to run brothels.

In some areas of the country police forces decide to turn a blind eye because its better to have girls in parlours than on the streets.
If a Chief Constable or Police and Crime Commissioner decides "we know where the parlours are target them and and we can raise additional money for the budget and look good in the process". Look what's happened in Leeds since they had that purge on parlours a few years ago.

[daviemac]

I'm not telling pimps how not to get caught just commenting on a story and stating the obvious. If you are running an illegal business that benifits you the women who work for you and the punters who pay then don't rock the boat!

The only way they can avoid getting caught is not to run brothels.

In some areas of the country police forces decide to turn a blind eye because its better to have girls in parlours than on the streets.
If a Chief Constable or Police and Crime Commissioner decides "we know where the parlours are target them and and we can raise additional money for the budget and look good in the process". Look what's happened in Leeds since they had that purge on parlours a few years ago.

I know it's up to the local PCC to decide what's acceptable, just I wouldn't have included "If you are earning a fortune from running a parlour don't be greedy by trying to fidfle your tax, make fraudulent claims for benefit or commit any crime for financial benefit because if you do this could happen to you." in my post when relaying the story, that's just me though.

[munterhunter]

I know it's up to the local PCC to decide what's acceptable, just I wouldn't have included "If you are earning a fortune from running a parlour don't be greedy by trying to fidfle your tax, make fraudulent claims for benefit or commit any crime for financial benefit because if you do this could happen to you." in my post when relaying the story, that's just me though.

But "being greedy" was exactly what this woman did. Jesus she accumulated £650,000 in 10 years and still decided to scam the DWP for chump change when you compare it to what she was earning from the parlour.
Personally I agree with the approach of keeping parlours open rather than shutting them down.
Prostitution and pimping has existed for centuries. The laws relating to prostitution date from Victorian times there have been a few amendments but more recent legislation has been enacted to tackle sexual exploitation and trafficking. 20 plus years ago the old bill were arresting street girls for soliciting. Magistrates were fining them the same night the girls were back on the streets to earn money to pay the fine as well as feed themselves their kids the pimps and whatever habit they had. What we need is a radical overhaul of laes telating to prostitution. What we have is certain police forces taking a measured approach. Things like areas where girls will be tolerated,allowing palours to remain open.
I think it's an operational decision taken by senior police officers in some forces. If some politician PCC community leader or God forbid someone like Harriett Harman jumps on the bandwaggon and points out "If you convict the pimps running the parlours there's money to be earned as well as a pat on the back from Joe Public"  then turning a blind eye will cease to be an option.
Yes that will hurt the pimps..more importantly it will hurt the working girls and the punters.
Don't get me wrong this silly greedy bitch deserved all she got!

[Home Alone]

According to various newsfeeds Natalie Davis owner of Butterflys Sauna in Weston Super Mare was jailed in 2019 for 2 years 6 months for controlling prostitutes for financial gain.
While running Butterfly's Ms Davis claimed £18,000 in disability benefit. Enter the DWP and Avon & Somerset Constabulary intent on doing her for benefit fraud to the Value of £18,000. That is till financial investigations showed she had assets valued at £650,000 from running a brothel and had a Eureka moment!
Running a brothel is illegal.
We can convict her of benefit fraud and snatch back the 18 grand. OR
We can charge her with brothel keeping offer to drop the charge tp controlling prostitutes for financial gain in return for a guilty plea and snaffle the full 650 grand under Proceeds of Crime.
That's what they did. On July 24th Bristol Crown Court ordered the confiscation of £650,000.
If there's a moral to this story. If you are earning a fortune from running a parlour don't be greedy by trying to fidfle your tax, make fraudulent claims for benefit or commit any crime for financial benefit because if you do this could happen to you.
A % of that £650,000 will go to Avon & Somerset Police to help them fight crime in their area. Let's hope this doesn't fire up the old bill to take a close look at how much money could be confiscated by targetting brothel keepers!

As a mobility-impaired punter entitled to, and receiving, what munterhunter calls 'disability benefit', I'd just like to point out that it wouldn't necessarily be illegal for someone who qualifies for Disability Living Allowance also to run a business.

The fact that she'd convinced the DWP that she had a disability that qualified her for D.L.A. didn't mean she couldn't run a business.

[smiths]

IMO the police should do their job which is to enforce the law and nick pimp scum, they are human sewage who leech off WGs to make a buck, its takes a certain type of person to be a pimp, not a pleasant person including the countless women some WGs or ex-WGs themselves who are pimps.

If anyone really believes most pimps pay the correct or any tax to HMRC they are living in fantasy land, by doing that the pimp is putting themselves on the official radar, and by doing so who knows where that might lead. I very very much doubt a fraction of pimps pay any tax here, they want to keep as low a profile officially as they can.

IF it could be proved that WGs in groups ran brothels together I wouldn't have a problem with that, safer for them, the reality though is how would it be proved there wasn't a pimp running the show behind the scenes. Where there is fantastic money to be made pimps will be sniffing around, many haven't the brains to make as much money legit so break the law. The pity as I see it is not enough police do enforce the law by nicking pimps. And the sentences once convicted are woefully inadequate, should be 10 years in prison minimum and POCA to seize their assets. Those pimps who also force and/or traffic women to be WGs should get mandatory life sentences in my opinion.

[smiths]

As a mobility-impaired punter entitled to, and receiving, what munterhunter calls 'disability benefit', I'd just like to point out that it wouldn't necessarily be illegal for someone who qualifies for Disability Living Allowance also to run a business.

The fact that she'd convinced the DWP that she had a disability that qualified her for D.L.A. didn't mean she couldn't run a business.

Indeed so, Personal Independence Payment (PIP) is a non means tested benefit so IF you qualify running a business as well shouldn't be a problem. What is a problem is claiming it and/or ESA which is means tested by saying you are wheelchair bound as this woman did but in reality she wasn't and also running an illegal business. During the period she was declaring she was wheelchair bound she wasn't and either admitted she wasn't or was found guilty of lying that she was.

[daviemac]

As a mobility-impaired punter entitled to, and receiving, what munterhunter calls 'disability benefit', I'd just like to point out that it wouldn't necessarily be illegal for someone who qualifies for Disability Living Allowance also to run a business.

The fact that she'd convinced the DWP that she had a disability that qualified her for D.L.A. didn't mean she couldn't run a business.

The OP is a little bit misleading, as she was prosecuted for both offences. She claimed and was entitled to DLA from 1999 to 2012 but when her condition improved she failed to notify the DWP, from 2012 to 2018 she continued to claim the benefit she wasn't entitled to. She was prosecuted and convicted of the offence, was given a 32-week prison sentence suspended for 18 months and was ordered to undertake 50 hours of unpaid work and pay compensation.

She was also prosecuted for running the brothel and sentenced to two years and six months' imprisonment. But she had her sentence reduced to 12 months, suspended for a year, by the Court of Appeal. A POC order was also made for her to repay £650,000.

[Home Alone]

Indeed so, Personal Independence Payment (PIP) is a non means tested benefit so IF you qualify running a business as well shouldn't be a problem. What is a problem is claiming it and/or ESA which is means tested by saying you are wheelchair bound as this woman did but in reality she wasn't and also running an illegal business. During the period she was declaring she was wheelchair bound she wasn't and either admitted she wasn't or was found guilty of lying that she was.

My apologies; I was using the name of the benefit which applied when I qualified for it.

[willie loman]

Why the continual use of the pimp word, it has negative connotations of coercion and exploitation, most parlour owners are giving women a safe place to make money, and indeed a safe place for customers to visit, what is baffling is how random the prosecutions are.

[scutty brown]

Why the continual use of the pimp word, it has negative connotations of coercion and exploitation, most parlour owners are giving women a safe place to make money, and indeed a safe place for customers to visit, what is baffling is how random the prosecutions are.

Butterflys wasn't a safe place.
The building was falling apart, damp, bad wiring, loose carpets, accessed via an unlit fire escape.
Some of the girls were obviously volunteers, but some may not have been: some were EE, collected/delivered by pimp boyfriends in their german pimpmobiles every day.
There'd been a string of complaints about the place - it was on a high profile street and the related drunken antics caused a lot of problems for neighbours. The police had been looking to close if for a long time - she made it easy for them

[daviemac]

Why the continual use of the pimp word, it has negative connotations of coercion and exploitation, most parlour owners are giving women a safe place to make money, and indeed a safe place for customers to visit, what is baffling is how random the prosecutions are.

Because that's what they are, some are decent and do a good job representing their girls, others are cunts who traffic and coerce those in their control.


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[smiths]

Butterflys wasn't a safe place.
The building was falling apart, damp, bad wiring, loose carpets, accessed via an unlit fire escape.
Some of the girls were obviously volunteers, but some may not have been: some were EE, collected/delivered by pimp boyfriends in their german pimpmobiles every day.
There'd been a string of complaints about the place - it was on a high profile street and the related drunken antics caused a lot of problems for neighbours. The police had been looking to close if for a long time - she made it easy for them

The police can very very easily close any brothel they choose to immediately, there is no need to be looking to close it for a long time. Send a copper in posing as a punter and once he gets offered a sexual service that's all that's needed to be able to nick the pimp IF they can locate them, plus anyone else helping to run the place by answering the phone booking punters in for example. And in fact the law about brothels is a sexual service doesn't have to be offered, however for conviction purposes better to have that in evidence. Then once convicted POCA and HMRC could have their go against the pimp.

Its why the police don't do so with many more brothels that is the unanswered question, all are illegal obviously but the top cops choose not to enforce the law.

There are 2 types of pimp, 1 who coerces/forces and maybe traffics women to be WGs against their free will, or with the promise of a non sexual job which is the lure but a lie. And all such pimps should get done and given a mandatory life sentence. Then there are pimps who are pimps to WGs who choose to work for them, the reasons some WGs choose to do so are obvious to me. An EE WG from a poor country couldn't possibly afford to rent a premises in my area, or have the required references so they work for a pimp who provides the premises and lays their punters on for them. These are sometimes ex-WGs of the WGs nationality or even still WGs who rent out a room or rooms aspiring to be a pimp though there may be a Sergei figure pulling the strings with them all. In exchange the WG agrees to pay the pimp an agreed cut of her punts. Some EE WGs come here for an intensive 6 week period then go back home for a couple of weeks or more, for some of them paying a pimp an agreed cut is worth it to them. Even if they pay the pimp a lot they could well still be making much more money than they could at home.

Over the years I have spoken to many Brit WGs as Indies who said they used to work for a pimp and at that time it suited them as all they had to do was turn up as agreed, no getting punters themselves, it was all done for them. Those WGs then decided they could make more by going Indie so tried it to see how they got on, and some never looked back. Sadly pimps have always existed in punting and that wont be changing anytime soon. Its for the police to enforce the law that's the only sure way to reduce pimps but the will isn't their with some top cops.

[unclepokey]

How quaint and gentlemanly were the officers who made appointments that they "made [their] excuses". We can only speculate as to what those excuses were.

[munterhunter]

As a mobility-impaired punter entitled to, and receiving, what munterhunter calls 'disability benefit', I'd just like to point out that it wouldn't necessarily be illegal for someone who qualifies for Disability Living Allowance also to run a business.

The fact that she'd convinced the DWP that she had a disability that qualified her for D.L.A. didn't mean she couldn't run a business.

The news reports said she had fraudulently claimed £18,000 in "Disability Benefits" DWP investigated found that it was a fraudulent case and called police. At that point if convicted she would have been liabke to repay the £18,000.
I don't think anyone with a disability should prevented from working or running a business.
Financial Investigations revealed she had £650,000 in realisable assets accumulated from running a massage parlour/ brothel. Running a brothel or controlling prostitutes is ILLEGAL which made the £650,000 accessible gor confiscation as criminal proceeds.
The £18,000 obtained from the DWP will be paid from the £650,000.

[munterhunter]

The OP is a little bit misleading, as she was prosecuted for both offences. She claimed and was entitled to DLA from 1999 to 2012 but when her condition improved she failed to notify the DWP, from 2012 to 2018 she continued to claim the benefit she wasn't entitled to. She was prosecuted and convicted of the offence, was given a 32-week prison sentence suspended for 18 months and was ordered to undertake 50 hours of unpaid work and pay compensation.

She was also prosecuted for running the brothel and sentenced to two years and six months' imprisonment. But she had her sentence reduced to 12 months, suspended for a year, by the Court of Appeal. A POC order was also made for her to repay £650,000.

With respect..there was nothing misleading about what I said I was quoting directly from the article in the Weston Gutter press referenced by another member below my initial post in this thread. I don't doubt there may have been appeals but these weren't reported in the article I quoted from. Because she had to forfeit £650,000 having to serve a custodial sentence too seems unduly excessive.
The prosecution still got the better end of the deal scrap the custodial sentence and keep the £650,000

[smiths]

With respect..there was nothing misleading about what I said I was quoting directly from the article in the Weston Gutter press referenced by another member below my initial post in this thread. I don't doubt there may have been appeals but these weren't reported in the article I quoted from. Because she had to forfeit £650,000 having to serve a custodial sentence too seems unduly excessive.
The prosecution still got the better end of the deal scrap the custodial sentence and keep the £650,000

I totally disagree though I don't know if she may of spent any time on remand but if she didn't she served no prison time for either offence which to me is completely woeful. POCA isn't supposed to be instead of going to prison unless you don't cough up and pay it that is, its on top of it as pimp scum deserve. The £650k was obtained illegally so was in addition to her convictions. I hope HMRC take a look at her as well on that £650k.

Its in no way unduly excessive to me that she should of gone to prison, if it were up to me pimps would get a minimum of 10 years in prison and I do mean have to serve at least 10 years. It will never happen though as many Judges are fucking useless passing totally inadequate sentences.

[scutty brown]

How quaint and gentlemanly were the officers who made appointments that they "made [their] excuses". We can only speculate as to what those excuses were.

from my times going there years ago the excuse could easily be "fuckin hell you're fuggly"

I used a few times as a rest break while driving back from Devon to the NW

[daviemac]

With respect..there was nothing misleading about what I said I was quoting directly from the article in the Weston Gutter press referenced by another member below my initial post in this thread. I don't doubt there may have been appeals but these weren't reported in the article I quoted from. Because she had to forfeit £650,000 having to serve a custodial sentence too seems unduly excessive.
The prosecution still got the better end of the deal scrap the custodial sentence and keep the £650,000

Sorry to disagree but your post was misleading in so far as you claimed they chose between prosecution for benefit fraud and running a brothel, when in fact she was prosecuted on both counts, though in different court cases.

According to various newsfeeds Natalie Davis owner of Butterflys Sauna in Weston Super Mare was jailed in 2019 for 2 years 6 months for controlling prostitutes for financial gain.
While running Butterfly's Ms Davis claimed £18,000 in disability benefit. Enter the DWP and Avon & Somerset Constabulary intent on doing her for benefit fraud to the Value of £18,000. That is till financial investigations showed she had assets valued at £650,000 from running a brothel and had a Eureka moment!
Running a brothel is illegal.
We can convict her of benefit fraud and snatch back the 18 grand. OR
We can charge her with brothel keeping offer to drop the charge tp controlling prostitutes for financial gain in return for a guilty plea and snaffle the full 650 grand under Proceeds of Crime.
That's what they did. On July 24th Bristol Crown Court ordered the confiscation of £650,000.

She was convicted of benefit fraud in August 2019 and received a 32-week prison sentence suspended for 18 months and was ordered to undertake 50 hours of unpaid work and pay compensation.

The conviction for benefit fraud was due to her failing to notify a change in her condition, it had nothing to do with her running a business.

[munterhunter]

Of course the benefit fraud had nothing to do with her business. My point is fairly simple. She was arrested and convicted of benefit fraud. As with all convictions where financial gain is involved proceeds of crime investigations begin to see if assets or money can be recovered.
They discovered she has £650,000 in assets these are attributable to operating the massage parlour "business" which is illegal.Consequently the CPS decide to prosecute for that offence and end up confiscating the £650,000.
She'd been allowed to run the massage parlour without interference from the authorities for 10 years UNTIL she was convicted of benefit fraud. The two are obviously connected.
Had she been running and earning from a legitimate business the court would have made an order to repay the £18,000 to the DWP as they did and that would have been the end of it.
If she'd accumulated £650,000 from a legal business that would have been the end of it. The court may have taken a dim view about her claiming £18,000 she wasn't entitled to when she was so wealthy but they couldn't and wouldn't have touched the £650,000.
Had she not been convicted of the fraud it's highly likely she'd still be running the parlour enjoying the benefits of her wealth!

[daviemac]

Of course the benefit fraud had nothing to do with her business. My point is fairly simple. She was arrested and convicted of benefit fraud. As with all convictions where financial gain is involved proceeds of crime investigations begin to see if assets or money can be recovered.
They discovered she has £650,000 in assets these are attributable to operating the massage parlour "business" which is illegal.Consequently the CPS decide to prosecute for that offence and end up confiscating the £650,000.
She'd been allowed to run the massage parlour without interference from the authorities for 10 years UNTIL she was convicted of benefit fraud. The two are obviously connected.
Had she been running and earning from a legitimate business the court would have made an order to repay the £18,000 to the DWP as they did and that would have been the end of it.
If she'd accumulated £650,000 from a legal business that would have been the end of it. The court may have taken a dim view about her claiming £18,000 she wasn't entitled to when she was so wealthy but they couldn't and wouldn't have touched the £650,000.
Had she not been convicted of the fraud it's highly likely she'd still be running the parlour enjoying the benefits of her wealth!

You are arguing with yourself, my statement that your original post was misleading still stands.

This is incorrect, - "We can convict her of benefit fraud and snatch back the 18 grand. OR We can charge her with brothel keeping"  She was charged with both. They charged her with benefit fraud and running a brothel, it was not either or but both.

Edit

BTW The brothel case was first the benefit case followed. She was sentenced for the brothel in January 2019, it wasn't until August 2019 that she was prosecuted for benefit fraud. 

[willie loman]

Because that's what they are, some are decent and do a good job representing their girls, others are cunts who traffic and coerce those in their control.


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The parlours i frequent are transparent about their cut of the money, they are routinely visited by health/social worker,police,immigration, in no sense is the word pimp appropriate for these places.

[ratedj]

The parlours i frequent are transparent about their cut of the money, they are routinely visited by health/social worker,police,immigration, in no sense is the word pimp appropriate for these places.

Then perhaps these parlours are run by transparent and caring pimps, but pimps nonetheless. 

[daviemac]

The parlours i frequent are transparent about their cut of the money, they are routinely visited by health/social worker,police,immigration, in no sense is the word pimp appropriate for these places.

Regardless of how well they run the place they fit the description of a pimp. They may not fit what you perceive to be a pimp but that does no mean they aren't.

I use very well run agencies in my area, but they are run by pimps.

[willie loman]

Regardless of how well they run the place they fit the description of a pimp. They may not fit what you perceive to be a pimp but that does no mean they aren't.

I use very well run agencies in my area, but they are run by pimps.

you are being jesuitical,  i view pimp as maltese gangsters in 60s soho, a parlour owner is no more a pimp than hotels offering rooms that they know are being used by hookers, or a hairdresser renting a chair to a hairdresser, its a business arrangement that many find suits their needs, but i see you enjoy using this term.

[daviemac]

you are being jesuitical,  i view pimp as maltese gangsters in 60s soho, a parlour owner is no more a pimp than hotels offering rooms that they know are being used by hookers, or a hairdresser renting a chair to a hairdresser, its a business arrangement that many find suits their needs, but i see you enjoy using this term.

Look it up in the dictionary, a pimp is a person who organises punters for escorts in exchange for a percentage of the fee. Like I keep saying there are good and bad pimps but they are pimps nontheless.

The way you view pimps does not alter the meaning of the word.

[willie loman]

Look it up in the dictionary, a pimp is a person who organises punters for escorts in exchange for a percentage of the fee. Like I keep saying there are good and bad pimps but they are pimps nontheless.

The way you view pimps does not alter the meaning of the word.

you know full well the point i am making, you revel in using what is essentially an archaic and indeed a misleading term, but as i say you enjoy using this word, so lets leave it at that.

[daviemac]

you know full well the point i am making, you revel in using what is essentially an archaic and indeed a misleading term, but as i say you enjoy using this word, so lets leave it at that.

For some reason you seem to be under the impression that because you use the word pimp as a derogatory term everyone does. Some people use 'prossie' others find it offensive. I have no opinion either way but it just isn't a term I use.

Some of the terms I use in a non-derogatory way.

Sparkey = electrician
Chippy -= joiner
Brickie - bricklayer
Grease monkey = mechanic
Pimp = agency owner - Dodgy pimps are lowlife pimping scum.

So please don't try to impose your values onto me or give the words I use a meaning that differs from the one intended.

[willie loman]

For some reason you seem to be under the impression that because you use the word pimp as a derogatory term everyone does. Some people use 'prossie' others find it offensive. I have no opinion either way but it just isn't a term I use.

Some of the terms I use in a non-derogatory way.

Sparkey = electrician
Chippy -= joiner
Brickie - bricklayer
Grease monkey = mechanic
Pimp = agency owner - Dodgy pimps are lowlife pimping scum.

So please don't try to impose your values onto me or give the words I use a meaning that differs from the one intended.

The list is indeed endless and indeed proves nothing, lawyer =brief, cabbie =taxi driver, you are convincing no one, everyone knows that pimp is a derogatory term, with negative implications, your continued use of this term, says how you view your hobby. That is your problem.

[daviemac]

The list is indeed endless and indeed proves nothing, lawyer =brief, cabbie =taxi driver, you are convincing no one, everyone knows that pimp is a derogatory term, with negative implications, your continued use of this term, says how you view your hobby. That is your problem.

I do not use the word pimp as a derogatory term unless the intention to do so is made very clear by it being followed by some very colourful adjectives , if you want to think I do that is your problem not mine.

Do not tell me how I view anything in life you know nothing about me.

BTW on other forums some of the NE agency owners call themselves pimps in a lighthearted way, the same way as I use the term. Learn to accept other people's opinions and accept that all things cannot be the way you think they should.

[willie loman]

I do not use the word pimp as a derogatory term unless the intention to do so is made very clear by it being followed by some very colourful adjectives , if you want to think I do that is your problem not mine.

Do not tell me how I view anything in life you know nothing about me.

BTW on other forums some of the NE agency owners call themselves pimps in a lighthearted way, the same way as I use the term. Learn to accept other people's opinions and accept that all things cannot be the way you think they should.

i dont believe for one minute that you use  the term in a light hearted way, if you do , you are perhaps the first man in britain to do so, it is a term that is alway used in a negative way, except it seems by you. how can any discussion be meaningful if one side decides that he alone knows what the cultural value of a word is, and everyone else is wrong?

[daviemac]

i dont believe for one minute that you use  the term in a light hearted way, if you do , you are perhaps the first man in britain to do so, it is a term that is alway used in a negative way, except it seems by you. how can any discussion be meaningful if one side decides that he alone knows what the cultural value of a word is, and everyone else is wrong?

I am not claiming everyone else is wrong I am telling you the context in which I use the word, and quite frankly I don't care what you think do or say, you treat the word the way you want but do not tell me how I should use it.  I will continue to use it in the way I mean it if you misunderstand it or you don't like it ignore it.

[scutty brown]

The parlours i frequent are transparent about their cut of the money, they are routinely visited by health/social worker,police,immigration, in no sense is the word pimp appropriate for these places.

what word would you prefer?
Ponce, panderer, procurer, trafficker????

[scutty brown]

The parlours i frequent are transparent about their cut of the money, they are routinely visited by health/social worker,police,immigration, in no sense is the word pimp appropriate for these places.

This particular parlour failed on all those tests. Pimp - or worse - is totally appropriate

[daviemac]

what word would you prefer?
Ponce, panderer, procurer, trafficker????

I find willie's comments quite amusing really, it seems I've gone full circle, from J999 telling me I'm a pimps fan boy to now being told I'm a hater.   

The truth is I say it as it is, if a pimp's alright I'll say they're alright, if they are cunts I'll say they're cunts.

[willie loman]

I am not claiming everyone else is wrong I am telling you the context in which I use the word, and quite frankly I don't care what you think do or say, you treat the word the way you want but do not tell me how I should use it.  I will continue to use it in the way I mean it if you misunderstand it or you don't like it ignore it.

Thats another daft post, you are saying that you basically decide what a word means, and if everyone else has a different definition, thats not your problem?

[ratedj]

Thats another daft post, you are saying that you basically decide what a word means, and if everyone else has a different definition, thats not your problem?

Isn't a meaning of a word primarily determined by its definition?

[willie loman]

Isn't a meaning of a word primarily determined by its definition?

surely its determined by how the majority understand it, other wise its the tower of babel?

[daviemac]

Isn't a meaning of a word primarily determined by its definition?

I'm just going off the definition that's in the dictionary as indicated here. Apparently Willie doesn't like the word so nobody should be allowed to use it.

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[ratedj]

surely its determined by how the majority understand it, other wise its the tower of babel?

I'm not sure that's how it works, Willie. For the case in question, at no point has Davie misinterpreted the meaning of the word Pimp, as evidenced by the attached definition.

[willie loman]

I'm just going off the definition that's in the dictionary as indicated here. Apparently Willie doesn't like the word so nobody should be allowed to use it.

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I dont know why you are being an arsehole about this, you know full well, regardless of what the dictionary says , the general public uses the word pimp in a negative way, prostitution as you well know, has moved on since Bill Sykes, pushed Nancy onto the streets, to describe a sauna owner as a pimp, is just wrong, he is someone who has invested money to provide a service to customer and working girl, he takes a cut from both, the tariff reflecting the risk he alone is taking.

[daviemac]

I dont know why you are being an arsehole about this, you know full well, regardless of what the dictionary says , the general public uses the word pimp in a negative way, prostitution as you well know, has moved on since Bill Sykes, pushed Nancy onto the streets, to describe a sauna owner as a pimp, is just wrong, he is someone who has invested money to provide a service to customer and working girl, he takes a cut from both, the tariff reflecting the risk he alone is taking.

All that might be true, IN YOUR EYES, but not in mine, now you stop being an arse about it and accept that other people's opinions differ from yours. I couldn't give a fuck how other people use the term PIMP, I use it in the way I mean it, if you or others misinterpret MY meaning  then tough.

Do not try to tell me what I know, what I should think or what meaning I should give to a particular word.

Just to clarify. I use the word PIMP in the context described in the dictionary and I'll say it again if you don't like it ignore it or live with it. In any case stop being a white knight about it.

Edit

Just one more point I am not 'the general public' I am my own person and I do and act as I wish to do and act, you follow the majority like a sheep if you want.

[willie loman]

All that might be true, IN YOUR EYES, but not in mine, now you stop being an arse about it and accept that other people's opinions differ from yours. I couldn't give a fuck how other people use the term PIMP, I use it in the way I mean it, if you or others misinterpret MY meaning  then tough.

Do not try to tell me what I know, what I should think or what meaning I should give to a particular word.

Just to clarify. I use the word PIMP in the context described in the dictionary and I'll say it again if you don't like it ignore it or live with it. In any case stop being a white knight about it.


Just one more point I am not 'the general public' I am my own person and I do and act as I wish to do and act, you follow the majority like a sheep if you want.

i suspect today was the first time you looked up the word in the dictionary, merely to reinforce your prejudice.

[daviemac]

i suspect today was the first time you looked up the word in the dictionary, merely to reinforce your prejudice.

Do yourself a favour and give it a rest. I know exactly what the word pimp means, I posted the quote from the dictionary as you obviously don't.

I use the word pimp to mean what I want it to mean not what you or anyone else wants it to mean. If you or they misunderstand I don't care.

Now for the very last time respect the fact I have a different opinion to you on the meaning of a pimp. Like I keep saying if you don't like it ignore it, just stop whinging on about it and trying to tell me what I should think do or say.

You should really try and learn something about me before you start throwing accusations of prejudice around, you are so far off the mark it's laughable.

edit

Any further posts need to be on the topic being discussed and that is the pimp who was prosecuted for keeping a brothel.

[willie loman]

Do yourself a favour and give it a rest. I know exactly what the word pimp means, I posted the quote from the dictionary as you obviously don't.

I use the word pimp to mean what I want it to mean not what you or anyone else wants it to mean. If you or they misunderstand I don't care.

Now for the very last time respect the fact I have a different opinion to you on the meaning of a pimp. Like I keep saying if you don't like it ignore it, just stop whinging on about it and trying to tell me what I should think do or say.

You should really try and learn something about me before you start throwing accusations of prejudice around, you are so far off the mark it's laughable.

edit

Any further posts need to be on the topic being discussed and that is the pimp who was prosecuted for keeping a brothel.

You are the one who has kept this argument going, i observed quite a while back, that you enjoyed using this term, regardless of the fact that the majority had a different view of the term, and suggested leaving it at that.

[daviemac]

You are the one who has kept this argument going, i observed quite a while back, that you enjoyed using this term, regardless of the fact that the majority had a different view of the term, and suggested leaving it at that, you are remakably patronising.

Are you totally stupid, what part of Any further posts need to be on the topic being discussed and that is the pimp who was prosecuted for keeping a brothel.
do you not understand.