Sex buyer clause being added to Modern day Slavery bill in UK parliament

[elrond]

The Modern Day slavery bill going through parliament now has the potential of a clause being added to criminalise the buying of sex, and decriminalize solicitation.  This is due to be discussed on November 4th.  Slipped in by Fiona Mactaggart from the Labour Party.

There is a letter and more details here. External Link/Members Only

Through the grape vine I also hear that Labour is likely to make criminalisation something they will pursue if they get into power. 

[galcom666]

Sneaky bastards, if it does go Sweden type law then I guess I'll retire from the UK scene.

[JV547845]

Even if she does think she's being true to her principles or representing her constituents, how the fuck is this democratic if she just sneaks it in without public debate?

[galcom666]

The UK isn't democratic and never has been. One of my law professors said the UK is effectively a elected dictatorship. Once election day is over nothing matters.

Politicians vote on what their whip and party tells them to vote rather than the debates in question.

I remember back to the ID card debate, the Tories and Lib dems were utterly destroying Labour's arguments on ID cards. Near the end of the debate a ton of Labour MPs shuffled in and voted for it even though they did not participate in the debate.

Political parties tbh should be banned.

[Taggart]

That McTaggart bitch needs to take her head from the sand and look at research and listen to these respected people offering valid counter arguments.

She's just a glory seeker and will succeed in driving prostitution underground. 

Surely the real answer is to trial the proposals rather than implement a blanket unworkable law?

[Taggart]

Can I add, if it ever became law, how the hell would the police find the time to investigate?

You seldom see police on motorways, they cant be arsed to turn up for burglary investigations within a reasonable time, and I cant recall the last time one walked down my street.

And there are more police than 20 years ago? WTF are they? Sitting in the canteen?

[galcom666]

It might just be like the nonce law. Whereby even though they can't prove a nonce actually harmed a child.

The thought of it is a crime. Indicators of thought can lead to convictions. I.e. pictures.

As such visiting websites such as AW demonstrates intent?

My feeling is it will be used as a last resort prosecution. Like when police burst into an innocent person's home find nothing but seize computers and telephones anyway. The police to save embarrassment always always darken the character of the innocent person by saying child porn was found on their computers.

Then quietly dropping the charge... of course the damage is already done.

[Wowgeek]

The police to save embarrassment always always darken the character of the innocent person by saying child porn was found on their computers.
Then quietly dropping the charge... of course the damage is already done.

Interesting, yet completely preposterous view 

[galcom666]

Interesting, yet completely preposterous view 

Really?

Remember the raid on a London house where the police accidentally shot one of the occupiers? They spent several months taking the house apart. Then oh look we found child porn on their computers. Charge was quietly dropped.

External Link/Members Only

Flight ZB 613 Where two Muslim men were taken off the flight. They didn't seem fazed, but on return home oh look Child porn offence!

Jean Charles De Menzies, after he was shot rape allegations were made against him which quietly vanished.

Similarly when that woman was thrown to the ground and left bleeding by a cop. It was pretty obvious a smear campaign went against her revealing details of her private life which had nothing to do with the case.

Hillsborough demonstrated mass blackening of reputations.

[myothernameis]

Really?

Remember the raid on a London house where the police accidentally shot one of the occupiers? They spent several months taking the house apart. Then oh look we found child porn on their computers. Charge was quietly dropped.

On the advice of the Crown Prosecution Service, no charges were brought against him

If I was him, I would have said, bring the charges against me, lets have this all out in court, after all the damage is already done

[Wowgeek]

Really?

Remember the raid on a London house where the police accidentally shot one of the occupiers? They spent several months taking the house apart. Then oh look we found child porn on their computers. Charge was quietly dropped.

External Link/Members Only

Flight ZB 613 Where two Muslim men were taken off the flight. They didn't seem fazed, but on return home oh look Child porn offence!

Jean Charles De Menzies, after he was shot rape allegations were made against him which quietly vanished.

Similarly when that woman was thrown to the ground and left bleeding by a cop. It was pretty obvious a smear campaign went against her revealing details of her private life which had nothing to do with the case.

Hillsborough demonstrated mass blackening of reputations.

As your reference starts 'Wiki' I don't think I need say anymore, need I? 

[galcom666]

It's cited:

External Link/Members Only

[Wowgeek]

It's cited:

External Link/Members Only

No, that cites a man having already been arrested for child pornography.  The charges didn't 'go away' he wasn't charged because he was dead!

[smiths]

The Modern Day slavery bill going through parliament now has the potential of a clause being added to criminalise the buying of sex, and decriminalize solicitation.  This is due to be discussed on November 4th.  Slipped in by Fiona Mactaggart from the Labour Party.

There is a letter and more details here. External Link/Members Only

Through the grape vine I also hear that Labour is likely to make criminalisation something they will pursue if they get into power.

MacTaggart once again. The criminalisation of punters has been discussed on here a lot recently. Thanks for the information Elrond.

As i have posted before i have no doubt Harridan will pursue her agenda if she can if Labour get back in. This slipping it in on the sly is typical of the tactics these people use.

[Dani]

I doubt very much that this will be agreed upon as although Labour are trying to slip it through it has had enough attention that everyone knows about it and already a petition is up and sent as well as hundreds (no idea of real amount so assume hundreds) of letters from sex workers as I myself have sent one too so this will end up being debated properly and neither the Tory party or the Lib Dems want this as Law as they know full well that it doesn't work and know it will push it further underground and make it harder to enforce the trafficking Law.  As was said in a recent report apparently some politicians have said there is already a Law in place that  has made it illegal to pay anyone who is forced trafficked or coerced so the protection is there for those women and this new law would not be helping those trafficked or coerced but would be pushing it underground so that prossies would be too afraid to report violence or rape as they themselves would then be at risk of extra police attention

However if it does by some miracle become illegal to pay for sex all that will happen is men will only visit women they know to be genuine prossies  and it would make it very difficult for new prossies to get any work as men would be afraid of police stings which as a new law they would do just to get arrest numbers up.

So if it becomes law men would just stick to a few regular girls who they know they can trust and you would have to ensure the prossie deleted your details from her phone before you left her place

[Falstaff]

I doubt very much that this will be agreed upon as although Labour are trying to slip it through it has had enough attention that everyone knows about it and already a petition is up and sent as well as hundreds (no idea of real amount so assume hundreds) of letters from sex workers as I myself have sent one too so this will end up being debated properly and neither the Tory party or the Lib Dems want this as Law as they know full well that it doesn't work and know it will push it further underground and make it harder to enforce the trafficking Law.  As was said in a recent report apparently some politicians have said there is already a Law in place that  has made it illegal to pay anyone who is forced trafficked or coerced so the protection is there for those women and this new law would not be helping those trafficked or coerced but would be pushing it underground so that prossies would be too afraid to report violence or rape as they themselves would then be at risk of extra police attention

However if it does by some miracle become illegal to pay for sex all that will happen is men will only visit women they know to be genuine prossies  and it would make it very difficult for new prossies to get any work as men would be afraid of police stings which as a new law they would do just to get arrest numbers up.

So if it becomes law men would just stick to a few regular girls who they know they can trust and you would have to ensure the prossie deleted your details from her phone before you left her place

Hope you are right Dani, because otherwise this would be very bad news for a lot of us and would change things for almost everyone. Will be watching this closely.

The irony of them trying to sneak it in the back door!

[domino131]

The law against brothels is already barely enforced, so I can't see how this one would make much practical difference.  Nonetheless, if it were passed I would probably quit, at least until it blew over.

[galcom666]

I just had a thought about this. But doesn't this cause an enormous balance of power change?

In that a WG can pretty much use the law to blackmail you. Since what she is doing is completely legal, but what you are doing is not. Previously it was just a case of keeping your hobby a secret.


Right now men often keep quiet about things for fear of being outed. How will this affect bad service providers and or scammers if we're scared to put bad reviews for fear of the police being called?

[Horizontal pleasures]

this topic is covered in today's Sunday Times but no link for you as it is behind a 'paywall'. The emphasis for the reasoning is to cut down trafficking.

[Wilson85]

External Link/Members Only

And the proposed amendments:External Link/Members Only

The interesting bit is on page 47.

On page 48 it is proposed that a statutory consultation on prostitution is to be held,  which includes submissions from the public.

It would seem that there are some MPs in favour of the current legal situation.

Even if prostitution was made illegal from our side, the beleaguered thinning blue line of the police won't be too bothered imho.

One thing I have done is save the numbers of known good prossies on the punting phone, in case things go underground.

[tazz]

No part is going to win the next election outright so would be suprised if this becomes law. Also tons of MPs fuck escorts so i cant imagine they would vote for it. Met a couple of prossies who told me theyd fucked an MP.

[myothernameis]

So if it becomes law men would just stick to a few regular girls who they know they can trust and you would have to ensure the prossie deleted your details from her phone before you left her place

If it became law, don't know if you could get round it this way

The escort advertises on AW, and when you go to meet her, its only for company, no sex, or foreplay, you just talk, and maybe later on make arrangemenst to see each other at a later date

Now you would hand over some money for her time, but would I be right in thinking the police would be allowed to take the money, so through this meet, you both get to know each other, and it kind of leaves the way open for sex at later date

[eyeseebee]

I suspect even if this law is passed, you will turn up, pay the prossie, fuck her and then leave. Pretty much as it is now. Can't see there being the plod resource to effectively introduce this.

[Horizontal pleasures]

the threat of being outed is the problem, 'thou shalt not be found out' is the 11th commandment.

[domino131]

I suppose potentially there's a risk of blackmailing scams, but then there's enough punters out there who are afraid of getting outed for reasons other than it being illegal.  People already lose their jobs over it, for example, and it's not even a crime.

[eyeseebee]

Do they? It would be very harsh to sack someone for visiting a WG. It's not illegal so it would be like sacking someone for buying a packet of cigarettes. Bill Clinton and Wayne Rooney got away with it ok.

[smiths]

Do they? It would be very harsh to sack someone for visiting a WG. It's not illegal so it would be like sacking someone for buying a packet of cigarettes. Bill Clinton and Wayne Rooney got away with it ok.

I know of a punter who was a member of another punting forum who sadly gave a WG too much real personal information about himself and she outed him. It got in some papers though i dont know if they were just local or national and he got sacked from his job as a civil servant.

In some jobs there are clauses about acceptable standards of behaviour and/or bringing the profession into disrepute. However, this is not to say a punter couldnt sue and win as he hasnt broken the law as you say, but at the very least its likely to be embarrassing to many punters and their family and friends who might not know they punt may well find out.

Clearly any law criminalising punters for just punting would be seriously bad news as it could be wheeled out when the police choose even if apart from purges the police wouldnt enforce such a law, and in my view they certainly wouldnt have the resources and/or inclination to catch punters punting with Indies when brothels would be an easy guaranteed nick.

[galcom666]

Maybe its time to start dressing up ourselves! Bring a small tool kit, some business cards etc....

What? me punting I was booked to service this woman's washin' machine/compootah

[domino131]

In some jobs there are clauses about acceptable standards of behaviour and/or bringing the profession into disrepute. However, this is not to say a punter couldnt sue and win as he hasnt broken the law as you say, but at the very least its likely to be embarrassing to many punters and their family and friends who might not know they punt may well find out.

Yes, and even if they can't legally sack you, people finding out could very well make your position at a particular workplace untenable and basically force you to leave your job.  It has been discussed here that people have had to leave their jobs over it, which doesn't necessarily mean being fired, but more something like it being made clear that they would be best to move on.

[Happylad]

Maybe its time to start dressing up ourselves! Bring a small tool kit, some business cards etc....

What? me punting I was booked to service this woman's washin' machine/compootah

But, of course, if you go around in the dark with a bag of tools and if they really want to get you, they`ll do you for "going equipped by night"

[unclepokey]

A bright correspondent on the other site suggests, I think with considerable force, that the proposed law change would criminalise punters - yes of course - but would also criminalise the women as complicit in the crime for accepting the cash. This despite the women pushing the law change wanting to de-criminalise the providers.

It's all bollocks.
Uncle Pokey

[carlisle78]

A bright correspondent on the other site suggests, I think with considerable force, that the proposed law change would criminalise punters - yes of course - but would also criminalise the women as complicit in the crime for accepting the cash. This despite the women pushing the law change wanting to de-criminalise the providers.

It's all bollocks.
Uncle Pokey

Bollocks yes.

Defeated/Withdrawn too!

For now!

[falloneous]

The internet has transformed the sex industry maily for the better. It certainly allowed women to set up independently an work for own benefit.  Thanks to that US security consultant, spilling the beans about tapping into everything new security proof systems are out their driven by private companies trying to protect employee activities. 
You can set up a VPN account to access AW. Your accessIP address could be anywhere in the world. Use a pay as you go phone still give feedback over the VPN.  I am not much up on this so if any IT guys give us your views but think we might be bullitproof

[robbie54321]

Bollocks yes.

Defeated/Withdrawn too!

For now!

Sorry, haven't quite figured out how to highlight previous posts.
Has something happened regarding this bill?

[Marmalade]

One factor is publicity.

  How many ranters go on TV at all hours including peak viewing to say prostitution is evil and, with utterly false logic after getting the emotional attention, offer their support for dangerous legislation?
          ...          ...         ...       ...

...
  How many intelligent persons go on TV at any time to outline the facts, say look, paying prostitutes for sex is not the highest thing in all possible worlds but it should be managed with safety and respect for the individuals concerned unless crimes are being committed.
          ...          ...         ...       ...

...
Public consultation serves a 'great' function (at least on paper): it allows politicians to say "We held a public consultation." (and then went ahead and believed what we wanted to believe)
(and if anybody counts the responses, they will quote an ad populam excuse that 5 thousand, or however many self-righteous and well-organised bible-bashing minority loudmouths, were "in favour" but they only received 50 against, and most of those were anonymous.
          ...          ...         ...       ...


...
 
End of story on the ground is that police forces, who have considerable discretion, can use their perception of public sentiment to harass prostitutes, their clientele, their working places.


Look, I love the police, they are trying to do their job. And so are most politicians. Cramming legislation or media slots with so much information that travesties of justice go unnoticed is a popular technique. Hopefully someone will take a step back and look at everything calmly before such travesties are rubber-stamped.

[Silverado]

Sorry, haven't quite figured out how to highlight previous posts.
Has something happened regarding this bill?

Yes, the motion criminalising payment for sex was withdrawn.

[smiths]

Yes, the motion criminalising payment for sex was withdrawn.

Thanks for that, good news.

[galcom666]

before such travesties are rubber-stamped.

Which they will be, they always are.

[Captain Caveman]

The internet has transformed the sex industry maily for the better. It certainly allowed women to set up independently an work for own benefit.  Thanks to that US security consultant, spilling the beans about tapping into everything new security proof systems are out their driven by private companies trying to protect employee activities. 
You can set up a VPN account to access AW. Your accessIP address could be anywhere in the world. Use a pay as you go phone still give feedback over the VPN.  I am not much up on this so if any IT guys give us your views but think we might be bullitproof

I don't quite see how being anonymous online is going to help when you are banging away at a pro$$ie and the plod burst through the door.

[robbie54321]

Thanks Silverado
Good news indeed!

[Lightoller]

Thanks for that, good news.

Its gone for now.

Expect it to come back again if Labour get back into Parliament next year.

[smiths]

Its gone for now.

Expect it to come back again if Labour get back into Parliament next year.

Yes i am fully aware of that and posted it on here myself. Its still good news for now and i hope Labour with Harridan dont get in next year.

[Prices Slashed]

Yes, the motion criminalising payment for sex was withdrawn.

The Saafe response:

External Link/Members Only

[falloneous]

I don't quite see how being anonymous online is going to help when you are banging away at a pro$$ie and the plod burst through the door.

Cannot dispute that and there`s never likely to be a deterrent to being caught red handed, or prick in the box.  No I was thinking more about phones PCs being taken to draw down information on clients. Normally that would be the police but others also have the skills. Likely low risk but best no risk othe rthan red handed. Maybe worrying unnecessarily about influx of East Europeans with potential connections to people with serious software skills.